cbphoto
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Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:25 am

Great Lakes has loaded more flights to it's growing MSP hub! Starting March 11th with more cities loaded through the beginning of April!

Starting March 11th, MSP-IWD starts with one RT a day on the Beech 1900!

ZK-7195 MINNEAPOLIS/ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA-IRONWOOD, MICHIGAN 03:15 PM 04:15 PM
ZK-7194 IRONWOOD, MICHIGAN-MINNEAPOLIS/ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA 09:45 AM 10:45 AM


Starting March 17th, ZK will fly from MSP-ISN (Williston, ND) twice a day! One flight is non-stop, while the evening flight will connect through Jamestown, ND! All of the ISN flights will be operated with EMB-120s.

ZK-7146 MINNEAPOLIS/ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA-WILLISTON, NORTH DAKOTA 02:57 PM 05:07PM
ZK-7147 MINNEAPOLIS/ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA-WILLISTON, NORTH DAKOTA 07:50 PM 10:32 PM (1 stop)
ZK-7141 WILLISTON, NORTH DAKOTA-MINNEAPOLIS/ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA 06:00 AM 08:30 AM (1 stop)
ZK-7142 WILLISTON, NORTH DAKOTA-MINNEAPOLIS/ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA 02:10 PM 04:10 PM

March 17th is also the start date for MSP-JMS
ZK-7244 MINNEAPOLIS/ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA-JAMESTOWN, NORTH DAKOTA 11:30 AM 12:52 PM    
ZK-7147 MINNEAPOLIS/ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA-JAMESTOWN, NORTH DAKOTA 07:50 PM 09:12 PM
ZK-7141 JAMESTOWN, NORTH DAKOTA-MINNEAPOLIS/ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA 07:15 AM 08:30 AM
ZK-7244 JAMESTOWN, NORTH DAKOTA MINNEAPOLIS/ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA 01:17 PM 02:32 PM

And new to the list and previously unmentioned in the addition of MSP-HON starting April 2nd, again with a Beech 1900!

ZK-7321 MINNEAPOLIS/ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA-HURON, SOUTH DAKOTA 02:45 PM 04:04 PM
ZK-7316 HURON, SOUTH DAKOTA-MINNEAPOLIS/ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA 01:06 PM 02:16 PM

ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
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knope2001
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:59 am

Interesting to see Willison-Minneaplis...that's a first! I would hae sworn Williston was on Mountain time, at least at one time. But not now, if ever.

I wonder if Delta is okay with them using resources for ISN and IWD, neither of which is a Delta Connection market which DL is eager do leave? It is nice to see them jumping into IWD as it will lose all air service in early March no matter if the replacement carrier starts or not. DL* is stuck in the other EAS markets until ZK starts.

Speaking of IWD, it will actually start 2x/day according to the website.

MSP-IWD
0830-0930
1515-1615

IWD-MSP
0945-1045
1630-1730
 
MountainFlyer
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:58 am

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 1):
Interesting to see Willison-Minneaplis...that's a first! I would hae sworn Williston was on Mountain time, at least at one time. But not now, if ever.

Williston (ISN) is in central time by only twenty miles. They are currently ground zero for the largest oil boom in the US since Prudhoe Bay in the 70's. Just three years ago, Williston was a sleepy little farm town of about 13,000 people, with EAS service through ZK to DEN just a couple flights a day, usually sharing a route with either Dickinson, ND or somewhere in Wyoming. Now with their population explosion (the population has nearly doubled in just about three years), they are due to get five non-stops a day to DEN alone. I was often wondering why they didn't have an MSP flight since MSP is closer, and the local population seems(ed) to have a lot more economic and social connections to Minnesota than to Denver. I suppose since ZK moved into MSP last fall to take over some of the other former XJ Saab routes, they decided to take advantage and add another flight to ISN.

I would not be surprised if either DL or UA ups the ante and adds a CR2 flight to ISN via OO in the next year or so. The oil boom is only getting worse, and there are thousands of workers now in Williston making really good money, and many left their families back home in other parts of the country.

[Edited 2012-02-20 19:25:29]
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:35 am

I'm originally from MSP and now live in FSD. My employer has its state headquarters in HON. HON is a neat little town and I've always had a great time going up there! I once drove from MSP to HON and it was like 6 hrs of 2-lane highways. While FSD is the next "major" city MSP is the nearest metropolitan area. It will be great for the people of HON to have an easy straight shot to MSP. HON is a neat little airport. And they have a great restaurant there too (Ryan's Hangar Grill).

I was wondering "What can this airport handle?"
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Not bad for a little regional airport!
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iowaman
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:43 am

MCW should be transitioning from XJ to Great Lakes sometime this Spring as well. ALO will be lost to Eagle who will be flying to ORD (with all things considered they are probably happy).
 
wingnutmn
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:22 am

INL starts on or around April 1st. What about RHI, HIB, TVF, or FOD?

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WA707atMSP
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:40 pm

Quoting cbphoto (Thread starter):
And new to the list and previously unmentioned in the addition of MSP-HON starting April 2nd, again with a Beech 1900!

Will this flight continue on to PIR and DEN from HON?

Quoting acidradio (Reply 3):
HON is a neat little airport. And they have a great restaurant there too (Ryan's Hangar Grill).

Thanks for the tip! I'm looking forward to logging HON now that ZK flies there - I will try to eat at the Hangar Grill while I'm there.

For several years in the 1940s, HON was the eastern terminus of Inland Air Lines' milk run from DEN through South Dakota. Around the time Inland merged with Western, the route was extended eastward to MSP. WA served HON for a few years in the 1950s, before the CAB transferred HON to NC.

HON is also known as the birthplace of one Cheryl Jean Stoppelmoor, who became a famous actress in the 1970s after she changed her name to Cheryl Ladd.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:39 pm

What are the plans to get DL codeshare / interline on any of the ZK flights out of MSP?
 
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JBo
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:01 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 1):
I wonder if Delta is okay with them using resources for ISN and IWD, neither of which is a Delta Connection market which DL is eager do leave? It is nice to see them jumping into IWD as it will lose all air service in early March no matter if the replacement carrier starts or not. DL* is stuck in the other EAS markets until ZK starts.

Speaking of IWD, it will actually start 2x/day according to the website.

DL did not bid on Ironwood with the latest round of EAS bids, so I don't see why DL would take up issue with ZK bidding on the route. ZK is the only bid for IWD aside from Air Choice One, so they should be fine.
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:07 pm

Quoting JBo (Reply 8):

DL did not bid on Ironwood with the latest round of EAS bids, so I don't see why DL would take up issue with ZK bidding on the route. ZK is the only bid for IWD aside from Air Choice One, so they should be fine.

I think what he meant was that ZK is using resources out of MSP for other routes (ISN and IWD) while DL is still stuck serving communities it wants out of (TVF, FOD, etc.) while waiting for ZK to take them over.
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:17 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 7):
What are the plans to get DL codeshare / interline on any of the ZK flights out of MSP?

Good question. I thought a ZK/DL codeshare was part of the deal. I was surprised not to be able to book DEN-DVL on Delta's website recently. That has to really hurt bookings.
 
FoxBravo
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:35 pm

Any updates on what's happening at BRD? The schedules still show DL CRJ service but I can't imagine that will continue for long.
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cbphoto
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:49 pm

Quoting wingnutmn (Reply 5):
INL starts on or around April 1st. What about RHI, HIB, TVF, or FOD?

The rest of the cities will be slowly added as spring comes along. ZK is doing some major scheduling overhauls in the rest of the system to accommodate the MSP hub. Latest news is that ABQ will close, and their are strong rumors that LAS will also close this summer. These closures will free up more aircraft that can join the MSP hub, and start more of the routes!

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 6):
Will this flight continue on to PIR and DEN from HON?

I believe this flight is just MSP-HON-MSP for now with PIR getting the MSP and DEN flight. However, with HON receiving both MSP and DEN flights, that could change, to allow more aircraft to be rotated through the MSP system!
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Web
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:28 pm

Okay, I apologize for not keeping up with all the EAS changes lately, but can someone summarize what MSP-based routes DL is cutting and what MSP-based routes ZK is starting?
 
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:32 pm

Quoting c152driver (Reply 10):
Good question. I thought a ZK/DL codeshare was part of the deal. I was surprised not to be able to book DEN-DVL on Delta's website recently. That has to really hurt bookings.

You better off booking to GFK and then renting a car anyway IMO.
 
RJNUT
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:14 pm

Quoting c152driver (Reply 10):
Good question. I thought a ZK/DL codeshare was part of the deal. I was surprised not to be able to book DEN-DVL on Delta's website recently. That has to really hurt bookings.



the options come up on Expedia, but as an interline connection...not bad fares either..i looked at march 21st!
 
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:18 pm

Quoting iowaman (Reply 4):
MCW should be transitioning from XJ to Great Lakes sometime this Spring as well.

Any idea whether or not that will be before about April 3rd? I'd like to fly the 9E CRJ, and there hasn't been any news lately of when ZK will take over.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 7):
What are the plans to get DL codeshare / interline on any of the ZK flights out of MSP?

Last I heard that should be worked out this spring.
 
Carmelo
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:23 pm

Does someone have a website for this airline? Im couple of days in may in Minneapolis and woul love to try the B1900D
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:29 pm

Quoting Carmelo (Reply 17):
Does someone have a website for this airline? Im couple of days in may in Minneapolis and woul love to try the B1900D

greatlakesav.com
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HAJFlyer
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:41 pm

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 12):
Latest news is that ABQ will close,

Does this mean that Clovis and Silver City will lose their air service or will ZK serve them out of PHX or DEN ?

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 12):
and their are strong rumors that LAS will also close this summer

That would be a pitty considering how long it took them to finally aquire a gate there, but Ely, Merced (also served out of LAX via VIS) and Page (also served out of DEN via FMN) do not justify the maintenance of a hub in sin city.

I am glad that I used the opportunity to fly LAS-ELY-LAS last October (2 pax outbound and 4 inbound); it was better value than any Grand Canyon sight seeing flight out of LAS and just as much fun.
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:35 pm

Quoting HAJflyer (Reply 19):
I am glad that I used the opportunity to fly LAS-ELY-LAS last October (2 pax outbound and 4 inbound); it was better value than any Grand Canyon sight seeing flight out of LAS and just as much fun.

The "coach flyer" section of the current (March) issue of Airways describes a LAS-PGA-CNY-DEN flight, which seems like it is also a better value than a Grand Canyon sightseeing flight.

If you are interested in Great Lakes, I would definitely recommend getting the magazine. It will only be on news stands for a few more days, though.
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cbphoto
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:05 am

Quoting Carmelo (Reply 17):
Does someone have a website for this airline? Im couple of days in may in Minneapolis and woul love to try the B1900D
Quoting WESTERN737800 (Reply 18):
greatlakesav.com

That link should re-direct you, but the current website is www.flygreatlakes.com

Quoting HAJflyer (Reply 19):

Does this mean that Clovis and Silver City will lose their air service or will ZK serve them out of PHX or DEN ?

From what I understand, Clovis was given the option to connect with DEN via Santa Fe, NM (which would have been a new city) and Silver City would have connected through PHX. Apparently Clovis said no thanks, and I believe both of the cities will go up for EAS bidding sometime soon. I would guess Air New Mexico would possibly bid these cities!
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:13 am

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 1):
MSP-IWD
0830-0930
1515-1615

IWD-MSP
0945-1045
1630-1730

Seems like they can do this with the aircraft they're using for the DVL run. That schedule is:

DVL-MSP
0630-0805
1325-1500

MSP-DVL
1130-1305
1955-2130

So judging by this they'll do DVL-MSP-IWD-MSP-DVL-MSP-IWD-MSP-DVL. Good utilization for one aircraft.

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cbphoto
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:28 am

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 22):
So judging by this they'll do DVL-MSP-IWD-MSP-DVL-MSP-IWD-MSP-DVL. Good utilization for one aircraft.

Agreed, until it goes tech! Then it's a nightmare   

I would expect high utilization out of most of the beeches that rotate through MSP! Gate space will become a limiting factor as to how many aircraft can be on the ground at once!
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knope2001
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:45 am

Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 9):
Quoting JBo (Reply 8):
DL did not bid on Ironwood with the latest round of EAS bids, so I don't see why DL would take up issue with ZK bidding on the route. ZK is the only bid for IWD aside from Air Choice One, so they should be fine.
I think what he meant was that ZK is using resources out of MSP for other routes (ISN and IWD) while DL is still stuck serving communities it wants out of (TVF, FOD, etc.) while waiting for ZK to take them over.

Yup, that's what I meant. Delta is cooperating with Great Lakes in an effort to get out of their EAS-obligated cities ASAP. The planes they are using to fly to Williston and Ironwood could instead be used to get Delta Connection out of Mason City and Iron Mountain sooner, for example.

Quoting Web (Reply 13):
Okay, I apologize for not keeping up with all the EAS changes lately, but can someone summarize what MSP-based routes DL is cutting and what MSP-based routes ZK is starting?

Off the top of my head...hopefully I don't forget any

MSP markets DL* wants out of and ZK has been awarded
INL
HIB
BRD
JMS
DVL
ATY
FOD
MCW
TVF
IMT

MSP markets awarded to ZK which were served by F9* to MKE
RHI
IWD

MSP markets DL* wanted to keep as CRJ (with new EAS subsidy) and won
BJI
ABR

MSP markets DL* wanted to keep as CRJ (with new EAS subsidy) but AA* won them instead
ALO
SUX
 
HAJFlyer
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:24 pm

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 21):
From what I understand, Clovis was given the option to connect with DEN via Santa Fe, NM (which would have been a new city) and Silver City would have connected through PHX. Apparently Clovis said no thanks, and I believe both of the cities will go up for EAS bidding sometime soon. I would guess Air New Mexico would possibly bid these cities!

Thanks for that interesting information. It would have interesting to see how ZK would have done in SAF and how that would have affected the AE load factors on SAF-DFW. I can understand that Clovis was not too enthusiastic about a 1-stop flight to DEN considering that other cities in eastern New Mexico have non-stop jet service to major hubs (Hobbs to IAH on a CO ERJ 145 and Roswell to DFW on an AE ERJ 145).

Getting a Caravan instead of a B1900D would be quite a downgrade for SVC; I am not sure the mining execs flying into SVC are going to be thrilled. They would probably prefer a ZK B1900D flight to PHX. Given that fact that Air New Mexico even considered flying into Deming - which is app. 30 miles south of SVC - some time ago, I am sure that they will jump at the chance to serve SVC.

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 20):
The "coach flyer" section of the current (March) issue of Airways describes a LAS-PGA-CNY-DEN flight, which seems like it is also a better value than a Grand Canyon sightseeing flight.

Thanks!
 
burnsie28
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:47 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 24):
MSP markets DL* wanted to keep as CRJ (with new EAS subsidy) but AA* won them instead
ALO
SUX

Sad to see this, surprised SUX is a EAS city, a long time ago NW had some DC-9's show up at SUX.
 
fghtngsiouxatc
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:46 pm

Any word on if ZK is going to end up using the A & B gates at MSP when they get the full codeshare going? With the Saabs gone, I'm sure there's plenty of room.
 
cbphoto
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:10 pm

Quoting fghtngsiouxatc (Reply 27):
Any word on if ZK is going to end up using the A & B gates at MSP when they get the full codeshare going? With the Saabs gone, I'm sure there's plenty of room.

I don't think so! From what I understand, we will be on the E gates for the foreseeable future! Right now we have gates E-13/15. I think once United (ex-Continental) combines their gates, we will take over at least one or two more gates on the E side and park multiple planes per gate! Even though the Saabs are gone, the A/B gates are still pretty full, and because of the limited space, we could only get one beech/brasilia to a gate! At least on the E-gates, we can get a a few planes to a single gate, which should help out operations a lot!

Quoting HAJflyer (Reply 25):
Thanks for that interesting information. It would have interesting to see how ZK would have done in SAF and how that would have affected the AE load factors on SAF-DFW. I can understand that Clovis was not too enthusiastic about a 1-stop flight to DEN considering that other cities in eastern New Mexico have non-stop jet service to major hubs (Hobbs to IAH on a CO ERJ 145 and Roswell to DFW on an AE ERJ 145).

Anytime! I think SAF is one of those markets that could have done well either way! DEN would have been another option for pax to connect through and might have actually worked well! I remember hearing back in the day when ZK used to fly to SAF, we would consistently get 16-18 pax per flight, so the loads were sustainable!
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HAJFlyer
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:49 pm

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 28):
we would consistently get 16-18 pax per flight, so the loads were sustainable!

Wow, that is quite impressive. Which ZK city pair gets the best loads today on an annual basis? My guest would be DEN-ISN due to the Bakken oil boom.
 
cbphoto
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:16 am

Quoting HAJflyer (Reply 29):
Which ZK city pair gets the best loads today on an annual basis? My guest would be DEN-ISN due to the Bakken oil boom.

Consistently, I would say both ISN and DIK are the money makers! I know GCC, SHR and even LAR have good loads through out the year! Also FMN has apparently had record loads this past year (2011) so I would say FMN would be in the top 5 as well! But I would say ISN/DIK top the cake for us!
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TWA902fly
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:08 am

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 6):
Will this flight continue on to PIR and DEN from HON?
Quoting cbphoto (Reply 12):
I believe this flight is just MSP-HON-MSP for now with PIR getting the MSP and DEN flight. However, with HON receiving both MSP and DEN flights, that could change, to allow more aircraft to be rotated through the MSP system!

Actually... the flight will be MSP-HON-MCK-DEN and DEN-MCK-HON-MSP

MCK being McCook, Nebraska.

'902
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:54 am

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 24):
Off the top of my head...hopefully I don't forget any

Do you know the status of the DTW routes?

I have heard little/nothing about PLN, ESC, and CIU which DL intends to keep.

I know that there has been discussion between OO and APN, trying to do a tag-on route ORD-MKG-APN. DL wants out of APN. Starting this spring, DL is going to do DTW-APN-PLN until the summer when they will resume DTW-PLN and DTW-APN routes, or as soon as they can exit APN.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 24):
MSP markets DL* wanted to keep as CRJ (with new EAS subsidy) but AA* won them instead
ALO
SUX

Will AA stay in these for the long-term or would their situation cause these routes to go out for bid again? I just wonder if they can make these work, even with an EAS subsidy.
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:18 pm

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 31):
Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 6):
Will this flight continue on to PIR and DEN from HON?
Quoting cbphoto (Reply 12):
I believe this flight is just MSP-HON-MSP for now with PIR getting the MSP and DEN flight. However, with HON receiving both MSP and DEN flights, that could change, to allow more aircraft to be rotated through the MSP system!

Actually... the flight will be MSP-HON-MCK-DEN and DEN-MCK-HON-MSP

MCK being McCook, Nebraska.

I checked ZK's web site for May, and the MSP-HON flight continues to PIR.

Hopefully, ZK will change the flight to MSP-HON-MCK. That way, I'll be able to take a MSP-HON-MCK-DEN-PIR-MSP trip this summer, and log three new airports  
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knope2001
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:33 pm

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 32):
Do you know the status of the DTW routes?

I have heard little/nothing about PLN, ESC, and CIU which DL intends to keep.

Every month there's another order for all these communities requiring DL* to continue service -- a new one was just issued yesterday for another 30 days.

I think all of the Michigan ones which DL* wants to keep are essentially uncontested (either DL* was the only bid, or other bidders had proposals which could be rejected cleanly for not meeting minimum requirements). Perhaps they are still determining if they will accept the bids or go back to DL* and say they are unacceptably high and request new ones.

Alpena is not a city which DL* wants to keep, and they have had tough sledding -- I think it's three rounds of bidding now, and nobody is willing to propose what they say is critial -- service to Detroit. Silver (fka Gulfstream) originally bid for BE1 to Cleveland, and to my way of thinking that was about as good as they could get. Now I think the only viable bid is Air Choice One to ORD. O'Hare is a great hub, and they fly right into the sterile main terminal. But there's no code sharing with anybody, an APN-ORD is over 300 miles. That's an awfully long trip on a slow Caravan or Navajo. The former is only a single-engine plane, which Alpena has the right to reject for that reason. But the twin-enging Navajo has chronic issues with baggage capacity. Stepping down to 9-seat planes would be a real jolt for them. Last year Alpena boarded about 223 people per week, with peaks over over 300 per week during much of summer. The Air Choice One proposal includes options for between 162 and 216 seats per week.

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 32):
Will AA stay in these for the long-term or would their situation cause these routes to go out for bid again? I just wonder if they can make these work, even with an EAS subsidy.

I don't think there's any reason for AA to tnot honor the contract they were awarded for ALO and SUX -- and certainly no reason the DoT would pull the awards and rebid them. AA* is not shutting down. It's possible that AA* will re-examine what they do and make a 180 degree turn on bidding for EAS routes. But the newer ones they've gone after and been awarded, including Waterloo, Sioux City, Garden City, Joplin, Grand Island and Watertown NY, don't appear to be in any immediate danger. I think some of the smaller cities like Watertown NY were written with a 180-day "out" clause, where if service is failing AA* does not have to wait until a replacement starts service. That's more common these days when an EAS bid represents an increase in service in an attempt to recapture lost market. But I would doubt either ALO or SUX was written with that kind of clause because there's risk for the community. If AA* wrote that in, mostly likely the bid would have gone to Delta IMHO.
 
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:20 pm

Interesting, thanks for the update on the MI cities.

APN is in a tough spot, agreed. It is too bad they can't go back to getting a tag-on service to CIU, but DL really has no interest in the market. APN is quite a distance driving from PLN, TVC, or MBS. Ultimately though that is sometimes the price of living in a remote place. Outside of the Gold Coast on the Lake Michigan side, Northern Michigan is rather economically depressed, particularly over on the Lake Huron side.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 34):
I don't think there's any reason for AA to tnot honor the contract they were awarded for ALO and SUX -- and certainly no reason the DoT would pull the awards and rebid them. AA* is not shutting down. It's possible that AA* will re-examine what they do and make a 180 degree turn on bidding for EAS routes.

Right. I don't mean that the risk is of AA shutting down, but I question if they can make these work at the bids they were awarded or if AA changes their strategy on EAS markets and the size of their RJ fleets as they .
 
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knope2001
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RE: Great Lakes Loads More MSP Flights (update)

Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:07 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 35):
APN is in a tough spot, agreed. It is too bad they can't go back to getting a tag-on service to CIU, but DL really has no interest in the market. APN is quite a distance driving from PLN, TVC, or MBS. Ultimately though that is sometimes the price of living in a remote place. Outside of the Gold Coast on the Lake Michigan side, Northern Michigan is rather economically depressed, particularly over on the Lake Huron side.

We've got clients up therei n APN and when it *did* work out to fly it was great. Often we ended up flying into Flint or Detroit and driving, and it's a loooong trip.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 35):
Right. I don't mean that the risk is of AA shutting down, but I question if they can make these work at the bids they were awarded or if AA changes their strategy on EAS markets and the size of their RJ fleets as they .

Sorry I misunderstood...I see what you mean now. Hard to say. They could view EAS flying as a profitable way to gain the kind of high-fare connecting feed hard to find elsewhere in competitive markets as LCC influence spreads. Or...they could view EAS flying as a way to get revenue out of marginal excess RJ assets which BK will allow them to shed.

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