G500
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AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:29 am

looks like Air Canada will add one more daily flight between YYZ-LAX.. AC will now operate 6 daily flights between Toronto-L.A, but on the downside, they will terminate its only widebody service between the cities, its 767 flight.

Boeing 767 service on Toronto – Los Angeles route ends on 30APR12".
 
connies4ever
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:16 am

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
looks like Air Canada will add one more daily flight between YYZ-LAX.. AC will now operate 6 daily flights between Toronto-L.A, but on the downside, they will terminate its only widebody service between the cities, its 767 flight.

Boeing 767 service on Toronto – Los Angeles route ends on 30APR12".

Probably because they want the 763 on a different route, probably overseas. It's called opportunity cost.
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connies4ever
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:41 am

I am also thinking, and should have included this in my previous post, that the 763 running YYZ-LAX is probably one of the 3 ex HA frames that has the domestic J, not the international JF. So, this aircraft is probably going to shortly start YYZ/YUL-BCN and YYZ/YUL-ATH, to service the cruise business.

Given the turmoil in Greece, ATH frequency may be downgraded.
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wedgetail737
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:47 am

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
Boeing 767 service on Toronto – Los Angeles route ends on 30APR12".

It still sounds like a net loss in capacity between LAX-YYZ. Seems counter-intuitive to drop the widebody service just in time for the summer travel season.
 
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longhauler
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:09 am

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 2):
I am also thinking, and should have included this in my previous post, that the 763 running YYZ-LAX is probably one of the 3 ex HA frames that has the domestic J, not the international JF.

One would think ... but in fact no. The main reason for the B767 returning on the YYZ-LAX market was the competition offered by Virgin America. The Lie Flat Business class seats were to compete with their J product. So, unless there is an equipment substitution, the planned B767 is equipped with the Executive First cabin.

As well, the "low yield" B767s do not have AVOD, and YYZ-LAX is a very high yield market where AC offers its best (domestic) service. In fact, for a while, the A319s flown on that route were the only ones in the system offering WiFi.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 3):
It still sounds like a net loss in capacity between LAX-YYZ. Seems counter-intuitive to drop the widebody service just in time for the summer travel season.

It is all about competition, and better use of a wide-body aircraft during a peak time.
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hoons90
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:19 am

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 1):

Probably because they want the 763 on a different route, probably overseas. It's called opportunity cost.

I remember back in the Summer of '06-'08(?) YVR-ICN was 10x weekly, with AC61/62 and AC63/64. It would be nice if the extra 767 was used to reinstate those frequencies. The times that it wasn't more than a daily service, it always used to be an A340.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 2):
I am also thinking, and should have included this in my previous post, that the 763 running YYZ-LAX is probably one of the 3 ex HA frames that has the domestic J, not the international JF. So, this aircraft is probably going to shortly start YYZ/YUL-BCN and YYZ/YUL-ATH, to service the cruise business.

I believe that those planes are stationed out west right now flying to Hawaii. Don't think that YYZ has seen those birds since perhaps October.
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:32 am

All the meanwhile, the daily 738 YYZ-LAX on AA holds its ground...
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Whiteguy
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:37 am

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 2):
I am also thinking, and should have included this in my previous post, that the 763 running YYZ-LAX is probably one of the 3 ex HA frames that has the domestic J, not the international JF. So, this aircraft is probably going to shortly start YYZ/YUL-BCN and YYZ/YUL-ATH, to service the cruise business.

Only 2 are HA aircraft. They are used on the YVR/YYC-OGG, YYC-CUN, and YYC-HNL. All though lately an XM'd 767 has been used on the YYC-HNL flights.
 
G500
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:32 am

I was surprised to see only AC and AA operate this route. Granted AC will operate 6 daily flights, but I'd expected more flights between Toronto and L.A
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:53 pm

The only other airline that could operate this route is AC's star partner UA. Which is also exactly why it is not operating it, since AC is pretty much covering all the bases, with a better product and service at that.

Thenoflyzone
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JetCaptain
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:14 pm

I wonder why WestJet can't make this route work ? I know they've tried it twice in the past. Is the market from YYZ really that different from Las Vegas, where they have had great success ?
 
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:40 pm

So after April 30, the only widebody service to US will be YVR-HNL on 763's?

[Edited 2012-02-22 07:42:28]
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G500
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:59 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 11):
So after April 30, the only widebody service to US will be YVR-HNL on 763's?

I think we'd agree that the U.S -Canada market is a frequency market.

That 767 on YVR-HNL continues on to somewhere in Asia, correct??

Quoting JetCaptain (Reply 10):
I wonder why WestJet can't make this route work ? I know they've tried it twice in the past. Is the market from YYZ really that different from Las Vegas, where they have had great success ?

Air Canada did operate 5 flights YYZ-LAX, one of them being a 767. Plus American's 737 flight... AC has only 2 daily flights on YYZ-LAS, both of them narrow-body airbus. It seems like the YYZ-LAS market is less crowed
 
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:36 pm

Quoting g500 (Reply 12):
That 767 on YVR-HNL continues on to somewhere in Asia, correct??

No, the aircraft turns around and goes back to YVR. There are no AC flights that continue on to anywhere from HNL.
 
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:44 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 2):
I am also thinking, and should have included this in my previous post, that the 763 running YYZ-LAX is probably one of the 3 ex HA frames that has the domestic J, not the international JF.

No, it's the XM config. BTW, the 3 non-XM 763s actually fly international leisure routes, not domestic routes.
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Whiteguy
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:49 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 14):
No, it's the XM config. BTW, the 3 non-XM 763s actually fly international leisure routes, not domestic routes.

In the summer schedule yes but in the winter schedule they fly YYC/YVR to Hawaii.
 
connies4ever
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:12 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 14):
No, it's the XM config. BTW, the 3 non-XM 763s actually fly international leisure routes, not domestic routes.
Quoting whiteguy (Reply 15):
In the summer schedule yes but in the winter schedule they fly YYC/YVR to Hawaii.

Both of which are international routes, as would be YYZ-LAX.
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pnwtraveler
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:28 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 6):
All the meanwhile, the daily 738 YYZ-LAX on AA holds its ground...

That flight is important. The studios and film companies that have exclusive American arrangements, the people connecting to Qantas and other South Pacific One World Carriers, and then US originating passengers to YYZ all use it. So while it is only one flight, it is pretty secure.

I know many actors, agents and film industry types who fly the route, prefer AC, but a lot are constrained to fly whatever is bought for them, unless their contracts stipulate they can choose. The soap stars who used to shuttle back and forth mostly flew AC and new all the crew by name.

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laca773
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:13 pm

On 1 May 2012 AC's LAX-YYZ schedule is showing: 1-A319, 3-A321, 1-A320. I see an increase in AC using A321s in this market for this day at least as AC will up/downgauge a/c according to demand.
 
Whiteguy
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:14 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 16):
Both of which are international routes, as would be YYZ-LAX.

Actually they are considered Transboarder routes. The international routes they operate on are Barcelona and Athens, Dublin to I think.

YYZ-LAX is considered a transboarder route also.
 
cedarjet
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:14 pm

Not sure if it's actually been spelled out but the flight in question is AC 791 outbound, d. YYZ 0830 a. LAX 1040. The return is AC 792, d. LAX 1155 a. YYZ 1930. I will book onto the 792 on April 30, need to make that journey around that date anyway, and the price is excellent at the moment, £194 oneway. Tried to get on an Air Canada 767 on this route i 2010 but it turned into an A321 on the day.

Incidentally, the flight numbers remain after May 1 but is no longer the first flight of the day. New times are: d. YYZ 1020 a. LAX 1241, and back to base d. LAX 1335 a. YYZ 2118.

(Do Air Canada air crew nightstop in California? Seems like a very easy day to just go one way, and very tiring hard work to go both ways!)
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longhauler
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:19 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 20):
(Do Air Canada air crew nightstop in California? Seems like a very easy day to just go one way, and very tiring hard work to go both ways!)

There are a lot of AC crews laying over in California, both LAX and SFO. This required due to the early morning departures to YYZ, YUL, and YVR.

However, there are single day pairings, YYZ-LAX-YYZ, and YYZ-SFO-YYZ where the schedule fits. They go very senior, as with 9-10 hours credit, it allows an 8 or 9 day month.
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YULWinterSkies
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:43 pm

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 13):
Quoting g500 (Reply 12):
That 767 on YVR-HNL continues on to somewhere in Asia, correct??

No, the aircraft turns around and goes back to YVR. There are no AC flights that continue on to anywhere from HNL.

That used to be the case before AC owned any aircraft which could do YVR-SYD non-stop. Just clarifying things there. The A340 was the most commonly used aircraft, and I believe the 767 has been used at times as well.
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connies4ever
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:44 pm

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 19):
Actually they are considered Transboarder routes. The international routes they operate on are Barcelona and Athens, Dublin to I think.

YYZ-LAX is considered a transboarder route also.

"Transboarder". Boarder implies international. Airlines may use the term transboarder if they so choose, but these are still international flights, both in fact and in law. If it's not international, then why do you have to go through customs and immigration ?
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Viscount724
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:57 pm

Quoting JetCaptain (Reply 10):
I wonder why WestJet can't make this route work ? I know they've tried it twice in the past. Is the market from YYZ really that different from Las Vegas, where they have had great success ?

YYZ-LAX is a heavy business route, especially due to the movie/entertainment industry, and a lot of LAX-originating traffic. YYZ-LAS is the opposite, almost totally leisure, and almost all Canada-originating.

AC has always been dominant on YYZ-LAX. Virgin America quickly dropped their brief service, as did Alaska Airlines when they tried YYZ-LAX using MD-80s a few years ago. AC has such a large frequent flyer base in Canada it's hard for U.S. carriers to make inroads. The same applies on shorter routes like YYZ-LGA where AC has much more capacity than AA.
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:04 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 23):
Quoting whiteguy (Reply 19):Actually they are considered Transboarder routes. The international routes they operate on are Barcelona and Athens, Dublin to I think.

YYZ-LAX is considered a transboarder route also.
"Transboarder". Boarder implies international. Airlines may use the term transboarder if they so choose, but these are still international flights, both in fact and in law. If it's not international, then why do you have to go through customs and immigration ?

While technically you are right in the abstract, Air Canada doesn't classify them that way. Transborder has its own service levels and other internal differences. AC never calls a YYZ to DCA flight International. Transborder is even more important at large airports with pre-clearance as after you pass customs you are considered as if on US soil. You don't fly out of transborder to London, UK or out of international to LAX, Not an issue in the US as Canada Border Services doesn't do preclearance, so you can leave from either a Domestic wing or an International wing of a US airport flying to Canada.
 
connies4ever
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:06 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 24):
AC has always been dominant on YYZ-LAX. Virgin America quickly dropped their brief service, as did Alaska Airlines when they tried YYZ-LAX using MD-80s a few years ago. AC has such a large frequent flyer base in Canada it's hard for U.S. carriers to make inroads. The same applies on shorter routes like YYZ-LGA where AC has much more capacity than AA.

Jet America was sort of in the market for a while as well, LGB-YYZ with MD-80s. I believe mid/late 80s to about 91, when they got absorbed by...AS. Met a few former Jet America pilots whilst golfing around the PSP area early/mid 90s. They loved going into YYZ if for no other reason than "The Landing Strip" on Dixon Rd.
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Whiteguy
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:29 pm

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 22):
That used to be the case before AC owned any aircraft which could do YVR-SYD non-stop. Just clarifying things there. The A340 was the most commonly used aircraft, and I believe the 767 has been used at times as well.

Sure it used to but doesn't anymore. The B744 was used for while also.

The B767s were probably used the most. There was also a flight from YYZ to HNL after the merger and one flight that continued to Melbourne.

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 25):
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 23):
Quoting whiteguy (Reply 19):Actually they are considered Transboarder routes. The international routes they operate on are Barcelona and Athens, Dublin to I think.

YYZ-LAX is considered a transboarder route also.
"Transboarder". Boarder implies international. Airlines may use the term transboarder if they so choose, but these are still international flights, both in fact and in law. If it's not international, then why do you have to go through customs and immigration ?

While technically you are right in the abstract, Air Canada doesn't classify them that way. Transborder has its own service levels and other internal differences. AC never calls a YYZ to DCA flight International. Transborder is even more important at large airports with pre-clearance as after you pass customs you are considered as if on US soil. You don't fly out of transborder to London, UK or out of international to LAX, Not an issue in the US as Canada Border Services doesn't do preclearance, so you can leave from either a Domestic wing or an International wing of a US airport flying to Canada.

Exactly. Also most US carriers refer to International or Canada/US flights.
 
connies4ever
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:11 pm

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 25):
While technically you are right in the abstract, Air Canada doesn't classify them that way. Transborder has its own service levels and other internal differences. AC never calls a YYZ to DCA flight International. Transborder is even more important at large airports with pre-clearance as after you pass customs you are considered as if on US soil. You don't fly out of transborder to London, UK or out of international to LAX, Not an issue in the US as Canada Border Services doesn't do preclearance, so you can leave from either a Domestic wing or an International wing of a US airport flying to Canada.

I know that. I grew up in an AC family, father and brother. What I am saying is not about airline jargon, it's about fact.
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Kaiarahi
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:33 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 23):
"Transboarder". Boarder implies international. Airlines may use the term transboarder if they so choose, but these are still international flights, both in fact and in law.
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 28):
What I am saying is not about airline jargon, it's about fact.

Seriously, I think everyone understands that the U.S. and Canada are not the same country and that you cross the border to go from one to the other.

But you're missing the point, which was whether AC uses non-XM 764s on domestic or transborder flights. As has been pointed out, it doesn't, except for the first leg on seasonal YYC-YVR-HNL flights.

And it's not just "airline jargon". The legislation and regulations under which CBSA, CATSA and the CBP operate distinguish between "international" and "transborder" flights (which is why, for example, international and transborder gates are segregated), so the distinction is in fact recognized in law.
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connies4ever
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:44 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 29):
And it's not just "airline jargon". The legislation and regulations under which CBSA, CATSA and the CBP operate distinguish between "international" and "transborder" flights (which is why, for example, international and transborder gates are segregated), so the distinction is in fact recognized in law.

Having taken some law units as part of my management program, one thing I can tell you about the law is that it not about fact, it is about definitions. I was referring to fact. And that's the last thing I will say about the matter.
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Kaiarahi
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:52 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 30):
Having taken some law units as part of my management program, one thing I can tell you about the law is that it not about fact, it is about definitions.

As a holder of post-graduate degrees in law and a former law professor and senior director of the Canadian Bar Association, I'm not even going to try debating that, except to say that you may want to look up a good basic discussion of "legal facts" in a law journal.

[Edited 2012-02-22 14:12:22]
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threepoint
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:16 pm

Zing. I sensed an emerging edge in this debate even prior to the repeated use of the term "transboarder". What is it the kids say: pwned?
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Whiteguy
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:23 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 29):
But you're missing the point, which was whether AC uses non-XM 764s on domestic or transborder flights. As has been pointed out, it doesn't, except for the first leg on seasonal YYC-YVR-HNL flights.

YYC-HNL is non stop, along with YYC-OGG.
 
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:33 pm

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 33):
YYC-HNL is non stop, along with YYC-OGG.

OK - someone above said it was via YVR.
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connies4ever
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:05 am

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 31):
As a holder of post-graduate degrees in law and a former law professor and senior director of the Canadian Bar Association, I'm not even going to try debating that, except to say that you may want to look up a good basic discussion of "legal facts" in a law journal.

"Legal fact" is itself a definition. Just as our "justice system" has nothing to do with justice, and everything to do with process. But this is way off thread topic.
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jamincan
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:41 am

I don't think that's right, but maybe the law professor can chime in.
 
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yyz717
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:21 am

Quoting g500 (Reply 8):
I was surprised to see only AC and AA operate this route.

As mentioned, WS tried the route and pulled out. Now that WS is more established in YYZ, they may jump in again. Who knows.

AA started a 2nd daily on YYZ-LAX a few summers ago, but it did not last.

Canada 3000 also flew this route (with 3x or 5x weekly and it may have been seasonal but they stuck it out over several years).

Here's some trivia: Northwest announced YYZ-LAX about 10 years ago, but service never started.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 26):
Jet America was sort of in the market for a while as well, LGB-YYZ with MD-80s.

No. Alaska tried YYZ-LAX with 2x daily M80. It did not last long. Jet America never flew to YYZ, and there have never been YYZ-LGB flights.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 24):
AC has always been dominant on YYZ-LAX.

Yes, but AA had a bigger piece at one time. AA flew a daily D10 on YYZ-LAX from 1974 to 1981, AC flew a daily L10, and MAY (or may not) have had a 2nd daily.
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aircanada014
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:03 am

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 27):
The B767s were probably used the most. There was also a flight from YYZ to HNL after the merger and one flight that continued to Melbourne.

March 2000 I flew on AC from YYZ-HNL-SYD and return same routing back SYD-HNL-YYZ. I had a good time in Australia for 5 weeks.
 
connies4ever
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:36 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 37):
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 26):
Jet America was sort of in the market for a while as well, LGB-YYZ with MD-80s.

No. Alaska tried YYZ-LAX with 2x daily M80. It did not last long. Jet America never flew to YYZ, and there have never been YYZ-LGB flights.

You're wrong, Neil. I've golfed with guys that flew the route.
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yyz717
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:00 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 39):
Quoting yyz717 (Reply 37):
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 26):
Jet America was sort of in the market for a while as well, LGB-YYZ with MD-80s.

No. Alaska tried YYZ-LAX with 2x daily M80. It did not last long. Jet America never flew to YYZ, and there have never been YYZ-LGB flights.


You're wrong, Neil. I've golfed with guys that flew the route.


Jet America never flew to Toronto. Jet America was bought by Alaska, Alaska did operate YYZ-LAX (not LGB).
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longhauler
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:05 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 37):
Yes, but AA had a bigger piece at one time. AA flew a daily D10 on YYZ-LAX from 1974 to 1981, AC flew a daily L10, and MAY (or may not) have had a 2nd daily.

When AC started the route, it was a single DC-8, out in the morning, back in the afternoon. AA did not start on the route (with a B707) until AC had a second daily flight, out in the evening, back in the morning. From that point on, AC always had at least two daily flights.

As you state, when AA flew the DC-10, AC was flying the L1011 on the route, with a second daily DC-8.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 37):
Here's some trivia: Northwest announced YYZ-LAX about 10 years ago, but service never started.

I had always wondered about that, as I recall the announcement.

Over the years, AC has flown everything on the route, from the B727-200 up to the B747-400, and just about everything in between.
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connies4ever
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:16 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 40):
Jet America never flew to Toronto. Jet America was bought by Alaska, Alaska did operate YYZ-LAX (not LGB).

So the pilots I golfed with lied. Fine, have it your way.
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IrishAyes
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:44 pm

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 17):
the people connecting to Qantas and other South Pacific One World Carriers

I can understand the other reasons, but why would someone fly AA to LAX and QF onward to Oceania when they can fly YYZ-YVR-SYD on same aircraft, or fly Star Alliance through SFO or LAX?

I suppose it has to do with the fact that QF is connected to more destinations on Oceania from LAX than UA or AC are?
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longhauler
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:59 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 42):
So the pilots I golfed with lied. Fine, have it your way.

Lied ... might be a bit harsh. But likely, as Alaska had bought Jet America before Alaska started flying YYZ-LAX, it may well have been an ex Jet America crew, on an ex Jet America aircraft ... but still Alaska Airlines.

At it's peak, Jet America only flew to LGB, SNA, OAK, ORD, MSP, STL, PDX, DFW, DTW, DCA, SEA and LAS.
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pnwtraveler
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:01 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 43):
Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 17):the people connecting to Qantas and other South Pacific One World Carriers
I can understand the other reasons, but why would someone fly AA to LAX and QF onward to Oceania when they can fly YYZ-YVR-SYD on same aircraft, or fly Star Alliance through SFO or LAX?

I suppose it has to do with the fact that QF is connected to more destinations on Oceania from LAX than UA or AC are?

My lawyer and his wife just did it three weeks ago. Points, points and more points. They have just enough One World Points that the flight then gave them enough points for tickets to LHR this summer.

The guy who cuts my hair lol is also using the same route for Mardi Gras, He saved around $200 flying via LAX because already the YYZ to SYD AC flight was pretty booked and none of the reasonable seats were left on the specific days he wanted to fly. Had he left a day earlier or two days later he could have matched the fare. They also needed three seats on the same flight.

Ironically he told me the cheapest was YYZ to Detroit to LAX to SYD. He wasn't sure the airline but it has to be Delta given the routing..
 
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:23 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 44):
Alaska started flying YYZ-LAX, it may well have been an ex Jet America crew, on an ex Jet America aircraft ... but still Alaska Airlines.

Oddly, Alaska assigned 2 specific M80 tails to the YYZ-LAX route with only rare substitutions. M83 of course.
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longhauler
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:55 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 46):

Oddly, Alaska assigned 2 specific M80 tails to the YYZ-LAX route with only rare substitutions. M83 of course.

That's interesting ... any idea's why?

Maybe they were specially equipped for range. I would have though YYZ-LAX is quite a haul for an MD-80.
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Viscount724
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:11 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 37):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 24):
AC has always been dominant on YYZ-LAX.

Yes, but AA had a bigger piece at one time. AA flew a daily D10 on YYZ-LAX from 1974 to 1981, AC flew a daily L10, and MAY (or may not) have had a 2nd daily.

YYZ-LAX nonstops from a few schedules from the 1970s through the 90s:

April 1, 1974
AC - 1 L-1011, 1 DC-8
AA - no service

November 15, 1979
AC - 2 L-1011
AA - 1 DC-10

April 1, 1981
AC - 2 L-1011
AA - 1 DC-10

July 1, 1983
AC - 2 L-1011 (one flight a 747-200 combi Fri/Sun only)
AA - no service

February 15, 1985
AC - 1 762 daily, 1 722 daily except Sat/Sun, 1 747-200 combi daily (except L-1011 Tue/Wed and 762 Sat)
AA - no service

December 15, 1989
AC - 3 762
AA - no service

October 1, 1991
AC - 1 762, 1 A320, 1 747-200 combi (except 762 Thu/Sat)
AA - no service

April 1, 1995
AC - 1 L-1011, 2 762
AA - no service
 
mercure1
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RE: AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX

Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:31 pm

YYZ-LAX market has had lots of players over the years.

Wardair did A310 service

JetsGo with MD-80 flights in 2004/2005.

Skyservice also ran YYZ-LAX with A320s on a couple summers.

Also Roots Air announced YYZ-LAX, but service never commenced. (airline did not last long)

Lastly don't forget El Al and their YYZ-LAX service as part of their Tel Aviv route prior to going nonstop to LAX.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 37):
Canada 3000 also flew this route (with 3x or 5x weekly and it may have been seasonal but they stuck it out over several years).

C3 ran LAX-YYZ continually for many years. Not seasonal.