uhntissbaby111
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Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:40 am

Does anybody have any information on DL's plans for their new hub at KLGA? Are they planning on just boosting frequency of flights, or new routes all together? Challenging AA and UAL on the ORD-LGA sector perhaps?

Adam

[Edited 2012-02-26 22:44:28]
 
PIEAvantiP180
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:48 am

Quoting uhntissbaby111 (Thread starter):

They will operate a dual hub in NYC one in LGA the other in JFK. Most of the new slots they are getting will go towards starting new routes, some will go for frequency up guage on existing ones. As for LGA - ORD, they are already operating the route and shortly will go to 13 daily round trips. DL advertises its LGA -ORD service as part of its shuttle program along with LGA - DCA,BOS. If you look up LGA on wiki it will give you a good idea on what new routes will be and when they start.
 
SkyTeamTriStar
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:35 pm

I keep hearing from the Weekly Flight Ops update that LGA will become a full-fledged hub with 250 daily departures, eventually. A lot of the A320s will be used, being transferred from the MEM hub. Not all A320s but a lot...
 
PIEAvantiP180
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:06 pm

Quoting SkyTeamTriStar (Reply 2):

I hope so. Most of the new flights that have been loaded in the system are on connection carriers. I'm not sure how many airbus fights MEM can lose before there is none since it is my understanding that there are not that many left as is.
 
SkyTeamTriStar
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:51 pm

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 3):

True, a lot of the flying will still be on DL Connection....but..once a particular route can sustain the switch from DLC flying to an up gauged mainline flying, the company will make the switch to mainline equipment. So, the future is unbelievably bright for DL at NY.
 
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enilria
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:59 pm

Quoting SkyTeamTriStar (Reply 2):
A lot of the A320s will be used, being transferred from the MEM hub.

Wow, that's like 15 flights per day.  
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:05 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
Wow, that's like 15 flights per day.

Once you take out hub flights, is it even that many?
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OOer
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:07 pm

It seems like the announced expansion of the LGA hub is 90% RJ's. What a shame. They should make it a requirement that no more than 20% of an airlines operation can be of jets with under 100 seats. Want to reduce congestion? That's a good start.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:10 pm

Quoting uhntissbaby111 (Thread starter):
Are they planning on just boosting frequency of flights, or new routes all together?

20 daily PHL flights 
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:31 pm

Quoting SkyTeamTriStar (Reply 2):
I keep hearing from the Weekly Flight Ops update that LGA will become a full-fledged hub with 250 daily departures, eventually. A lot of the A320s will be used, being transferred from the MEM hub. Not all A320s but a lot...

This has already happened from a fleet perspective, but not from a crew perspective. The MEM A320 (and DC9) pilot bases close April 1. They are opening up an NYC A320 pilot base.

The Shuttle LGA-BOS, some of the LGA-Florida/MSY markets, and some of the DTW/MSP/MEM flights are all currently operated by the A319 / A320. Opening a crew base will cut now signficantly on hotel costs for NYC and allow for additional flexibility and reliability of scheduling.

With the initial launch of new flights there is not going to be a significant amount of additional A319/A320 flying.
 
aquablue
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:26 pm

90% regional jets? I thought they had a plan to increase traffic through larger planes?
 
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STT757
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:29 pm

Quoting aquablue (Reply 10):
90% regional jets? I thought they had a plan to increase traffic through larger planes?

A 50 seat CRJ is an increase over a 30 seat DH-8.
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flyboy80
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:29 pm

When they move into US Airways old terminal, are they doing major renovations to it? How many total gates will the two new terminals give Delta? Are they planning to have RJ gates at both- or will one primarily operate shuttle/mainline flights and Delta Connection flights congregating at the opposite?

Anyone have any news on crew facilities? I imagine that US Airways must have a crew operations area of some sort (even though I believe they do not maintain a current FA domicile there, possibly Flt Ops?)

Thanks!
 
aquablue
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:36 pm

I thought they were going for 70 seaters more than 50 seaters? What mainline flights are being added?
 
panamair
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:50 pm

Quoting aquablue (Reply 13):
What mainline flights are being added?

The mainline additions will be to DEN (738) and MIA (starting with M88, then switching to A320s sometime in April).
 
aquablue
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:51 pm

That's it? What about Dallas, Houston, etc?
 
SkyTeamTriStar
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:53 pm

Quoting flyboy80 (Reply 12):
When they move into US Airways old terminal, are they doing major renovations to it?

My understanding is that DL will do a total makeover, plus convert the club over to a Delta Sky Club. I also heard that DL will add one additional gate/jetway but I don't know where its going to be placed.
 
steex
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:57 pm

Quoting aquablue (Reply 15):
That's it? What about Dallas, Houston, etc?

Those will be on E-Jets. Most "major" routes are receiving E-jets or CR7/CR9 equipment.
 
cokepopper
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:00 pm

Construction has started (connector)
 
aquablue
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:01 pm

Wow... what a disappointment. So not a proper main line hub then?

[Edited 2012-02-27 09:09:35]
 
steex
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:10 pm

Quoting aquablue (Reply 19):
Wow... what a disappointment.

I'm not sure what else was expected. They're unlikely to start most routes with larger equipment, particularly given that funding the equipment would require downgauging established routes at SLC/MSP/DTW/ATL (there is hardly any excess mainline flying at CVG/MEM to be cut).

Ideally, I'd love to see routes like LGA-DFW/IAH be served with mainline, but the E-jets are probably a reasonable starting point given that they are markets currently dominated by other carriers. If they are successful routes for DL, they can always upgauge in the future. In the mean time, the E-jet offers comfort levels virtually identical to the mainline equipment.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:11 pm

It is a disappointment.

And in all fairness, JetBlue and the use of their 8 slots all going to Florida was a disappointment too.

Saw the pile driver for the connector yesterday. Will it be a dual connector allowing transfers secure and non secure side or just secure?

Ideally the 2 terminals should be connected outside of security and the 2 gates areas should be connected inside.

Seeing the apporach DL has taken at JFK, I am sure ideal will not prevail
 
aquablue
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:14 pm

NYC airspace is basically full, and there is no demand for more mainline flights at the premium business airport?
 
point2point
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:23 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 14):
The mainline additions will be to DEN (738)

By the time DL gets online with this, already into July, UA will have 5 daily n/s here, and F9 will have 4. Sometime in August, WN will get in with 2 of its own DEN/LGA n/s as well. This will push this current market from about 7-8 n/s currently with UA and F9, to about 13 per day by the end of summer.

Now, UA, F9, and then WN, will all have connects beyond DEN. DL does not. (Or maybe off-shot possibility that DL can funnel through some SLC pax here?) Maybe DL can pick up a few pax from DEN to beyond LGA smaller upstate NY or New England destinations, but a lot of the bigger destinations (BOS, PVD, MHT) there are already covered with n/s to/from DEN. So DL may benefit some on the LGA (hub) side here with few connects (?), but basically I believe this to be an O&D flight, whereas with UA, F9, and WN are also all chasing the same O&D as well, the latter three can push pax past DEN, since DEN is the farthest point out that n/s are basically allowed to go from LGA. And we do have to consider the DL, along with UA, can offer the higher class seats.

With all of that said, (and I'm glad that DL now has offered this other option), I'm just wondering if there is enough there for DL, being really the fourth wheel here (I know that they get third - in a month before WN starts, but still, considering the strength of UA, F9 and WN in DEN......) and able to make this market over the long run. Or is it with DEN, just put up the flights, and the pax will come.....?


 
 
avi8
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:24 pm

Even with the decrease in operations at DCA, how is it that DL manages to get all those aircraft for 250 daily flights just like that? This confuses me very much.
avi8
 
mozart
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:25 pm

I may be asking an obvious question but I havent followed these developments very closely. But what exactly is happening to terminals at LGA? Will DL take over the entire US terminal? Or just parts of it? And will they keep their operations at their current terminal and the Marine terminal? Which terminal and gates will US use?

Thanks
 
catiii
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:27 pm

Quoting aquablue (Reply 22):
NYC airspace is basically full, and there is no demand for more mainline flights at the premium business airport?

It makes more sense, from a yields persepctive, to run the E-Jets and the CR7/CR9 to the secondary markets and make money serving those markets rather than mainline 319/320 or M88/M90. The E-Jets and the CR7/CR9 have an F product and wifi, so there's really no difference from the mainline product (although I would submit that the customer service on board isnt as up to par).
 
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STT757
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:01 pm

Quoting aquablue (Reply 22):
NYC airspace is basically full, and there is no demand for more mainline flights at the premium business airport?

We've had this discussion already, these slots in the hands of WN or B6 would be a lot more beneficial to the traveling public, the Port Authority, and City tourism/business in general than a legacy like AA, DL, US, UA etc.. They would have lower fares, bigger planes and generate more demand and traffic.
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HPRamper
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:01 pm

Quoting avi8 (Reply 24):
Even with the decrease in operations at DCA, how is it that DL manages to get all those aircraft for 250 daily flights just like that? This confuses me very much.

It's not at 250 flights yet. And to be fair, much of that number is already there. DL had a sizable operation at LGA even before the slot swap.
 
flyboy80
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:08 pm

Anyone able to post a comprehensive list of Cities, Frequencies, and Equipment type during the week. Curious how the LGA schedule will look.
 
steex
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:01 pm

Quoting flyboy80 (Reply 29):
Anyone able to post a comprehensive list of Cities, Frequencies, and Equipment type during the week. Curious how the LGA schedule will look.

You can find the schedule after full implementation as originally proposed by DL in posts Replies 179 and 192 (provided by jetlanta)to the previous slot swap thread. It's possible, if not likely, that DL has tweaked it some since then.

DL LGA Slot Swap Flights Loaded In Schedule - Reply 179

DL LGA Slot Swap Flights Loaded In Schedule - Reply 192
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:41 pm

Very minor adjustments since the initial load:

I think they added an additional DFW and MHT flight
Reduced a IAD and BUF flight

Nothing of any substance though.
 
OOer
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:04 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 26):
It makes more sense, from a yields persepctive, to run the E-Jets and the CR7/CR9 to the secondary markets and make money serving those markets rather than mainline 319/320 or M88/M90. The E-Jets and the CR7/CR9 have an F product and wifi, so there's really no difference from the mainline product (although I would submit that the customer service on board isnt as up to par).

I'm sorry buy LGA-DTW on a regional jet doesn't make sense. That's 1,389 miles (according to gcmap). Most American flights from LGA to DFW are also blocked at over 4 hours.

I'm sorry but sitting on a regional jet for 4 hours doesn't make "more sense" to me.
 
burnsie28
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:31 pm

Quoting steex (Reply 30):
You can find the schedule after full implementation as originally proposed by DL in posts Replies 179 and 192 (provided by jetlanta)to the previous slot swap thread. It's possible, if not likely, that DL has tweaked it some since then.

There are a couple corrections to that

LGA-YHZ and LGA-DAY have been moved to JFK.
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:46 pm

Quoting OOer (Reply 32):
I'm sorry but sitting on a regional jet for 4 hours doesn't make "more sense" to me.

I actually think this is more of an image problem. The E175s are more comfortable in my opinion than an MD-80. The CR9s are up there as well. Not much to complain about, really, except the prestige issue of being on a regional carrier, and even then, it doesn't matter much anymore since you get good service on DLC these days anyway.
 
jetlanta
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:45 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 11):
A 50 seat CRJ is an increase over a 30 seat DH-8.
Quoting OOer (Reply 32):
I'm sorry buy LGA-DTW on a regional jet doesn't make sense. That's 1,389 miles (according to gcmap). Most American flights from LGA to DFW are also blocked at over 4 hours.

I'm sorry but sitting on a regional jet for 4 hours doesn't make "more sense" to me.

If you think an E75 is a "regional jet" your head is completely in the sand. There isn't a domestic mainline aircraft that Delta flies that is more comfortable than a E75. Plus, you deal with half the number of passengers in the gate house and boarding process. What on Earth is not to like?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:46 pm

Avoiding the argument about scope and outsourcing, the E170/E175 is anything but a regional jet.

A.net makes way to big a deal about "mainline"
 
CO787EWR
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:59 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 36):

Avoiding the argument about scope and outsourcing, the E170/E175 is anything but a regional jet.

Agreed. A regional jet to me is something in the CRJ-200/EMB-135/145 class.
 
catiii
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:14 am

Quoting OOer (Reply 32):
I'm sorry buy LGA-DTW on a regional jet doesn't make sense. That's 1,389 miles (according to gcmap). Most American flights from LGA to DFW are also blocked at over 4 hours.

I'm sorry but sitting on a regional jet for 4 hours doesn't make "more sense" to me.

Depends how you look at it. If you look at it from the standpoint of providing a comfortable 2 class product with all the comforts of a mainline M88/M90/319/320, while also generating the necessary yields to remain profitable on those routes, then it makes sense. I'd rather be 4 hours in the F or Y cabin of the EJet or CR7/CR9 than, say, in the A,B, or E seats on the M88.  
Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 36):
Avoiding the argument about scope and outsourcing, the E170/E175 is anything but a regional jet.

A.net makes way to big a deal about "mainline"

Agreed. Funny: the E70/75 is a "regional", but adding 20 more seats at B6 or US makes it "mainline." And yet it's the same jig, same cabin width...
 
MSPNWA
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:27 am

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 35):
If you think an E75 is a "regional jet" your head is completely in the sand. There isn't a domestic mainline aircraft that Delta flies that is more comfortable than a E75.

By common definition it is a regional jet. And the rest is a completely subjective statement. To me the E175 is the best of the regional jets by a large margin, but I do not think it's more comfortable than any mainline jet. On a flight as long as LGA-DFW, I'll avoid an E175.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:33 am

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 35):
If you think an E75 is a "regional jet" your head is completely in the sand.

It is a regional jet - even Embraer thinks so (what do you think the "RJ" in ERJ-170 on the certificate stands for?). But it's a darn comfortable regional jet, and I'd take it over mainline any day of the week. E-Jets are about the only aircraft family I'll make an effort to book on.
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b727fa
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:54 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 21):
Ideally the 2 terminals should be connected outside of security and the 2 gates areas should be connected inside.

Why would pre-sec segregation be better in your mind?
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
rwy04lga
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:15 am

Quoting mozart (Reply 25):
But what exactly is happening to terminals at LGA? Will DL take over the entire US terminal? Or just parts of it? And will they keep their operations at their current terminal and the Marine terminal? Which terminal and gates will US use?

Delta will keep terminal A and terminal D. Gates currently numbered 1-6 at terminal C will be kept for US Airways...gate 7 for Westjet...the remaining gates will be for Delta. The one 'extra' gate at terminal D is simply a renumbering of 5A to 3.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 21):
Ideally the 2 terminals should be connected outside of security and the 2 gates areas should be connected inside.

Outside security, they're connected by PANYNJ bus and by walking through a taxi rank. Past security, they're connected via enclosed corridor with moving walkways. Refer to the attached photo.

Delta's new hub at LGA - Combining terminals C and D
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jetlanta
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:37 am

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 39):
By common definition it is a regional jet. And the rest is a completely subjective statement. To me the E175 is the best of the regional jets by a large margin, but I do not think it's more comfortable than any mainline jet. On a flight as long as LGA-DFW, I'll avoid an E175.

So you'd prefer to connect or take AA?

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 40):
It is a regional jet - even Embraer thinks so (what do you think the "RJ" in ERJ-170 on the certificate stands for?). But it's a darn comfortable regional jet, and I'd take it over mainline any day of the week. E-Jets are about the only aircraft family I'll make an effort to book on.

Cubs, I know damn well what it is. You understand the point I was making. Its not a "regional jet" in the sense they were using it.
 
mozart
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:53 am

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 42):

Thank you, that is very interesting. I presume the DL Shuttle-like flights to ORD will leave from the Marine Terminal?
 
OOer
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:05 am

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 35):
If you think an E75 is a "regional jet" your head is completely in the sand. There isn't a domestic mainline aircraft that Delta flies that is more comfortable than a E75. Plus, you deal with half the number of passengers in the gate house and boarding process. What on Earth is not to like?

I'll take an A319, A320, or 737 over an E75 any day of the week!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:27 pm

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 43):
Its not a "regional jet" in the sense they were using it.

No, I agree - I think you and I are on the same page. Yours was simply the easiest post to quote. I don't see how anyone who has spent any quantity of time on E-Jets could say that they are less comfortable than mainline in any objective sense. About my only complaint about the E-Jets is that I usually prefer gate-checking my roller bag to putting it in an overhead, but having the flexibility of having it in the cabin with me is nice.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
william
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:00 pm

LGA, a hub? Really? When was the last time a flight was on time at LGA? This is going to be fun.
 
tommy767
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:37 pm

I too was under the impression that when DL said they were opening a LGA "Hub" that meant more mainline flights. The only new mainline being added is to NAS, DEN, and MIA. I would have figured that M88s to DFW would have been kosher but I guess not.

If DL is planning a "regional jet" hub then to me that's a huge joke compared to what they have out at Kennedy.

Quoting william (Reply 47):

HAH! Not to mention has there ever been a smooth landing at LGA or is always a windy giant THUD to the point where one thinks the gear is going to snap off and/or the plane will collide into the cargo buildings at the end of the runway? (I just don't understand why a dumpy airport like LGA actually exists.)
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
jetlanta
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RE: Delta's Plans For New LaGuardia Hub?

Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:51 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 48):

I too was under the impression that when DL said they were opening a LGA "Hub" that meant more mainline flights. The only new mainline being added is to NAS, DEN, and MIA. I would have figured that M88s to DFW would have been kosher but I guess not.

If DL is planning a "regional jet" hub then to me that's a huge joke compared to what they have out at Kennedy.

There will be more mainline flights over time, of course. But the fleet is only so big and stealing a bunch of VERY valuable mainline airplanes from existing hubs is too big a leap, especially when Delta is entering many of these markets for the first time. And they are entering them with a ton of frequency, which is a requirement in markets like LGA-DFW. Three M88's to DFW aren't going to cut it.

Another major issue is that the facilities simply cannot handle the volume of mainline activity that many here seem to think there should be. In order to accommodate the number of slots Delta will have at LGA, they are shoe-horning aircraft into these terminals. They aren't going to be operating turboprops on a pad like US.

If JFK and LGA were one operation, you'd have all of the beyond perimeter flying on big planes which would change the ratio all together. Think of it this way, if you took away the longer-haul flying away from EWR, what percentage of EWR flying would be on small planes?

I'd also add that most Delta hubs have a larger percentage of regional jet flying than mainline. But most of them don't have as large a percentage of LARGE regional jets as LGA. So really, LGA looks pretty much like most of Delta's other hubs.

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