PlaneInsomniac
Topic Author
Posts: 356
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:34 am

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:31 am

It seems things are slowly getting out of control in the labor dispute at FRA. Apparently unhappy with the limited impact of the ramp agents' strike, the ATCs at FRA will strike from 5 am to 11 am on Wednesday out of solidarity with that group, meaning that little or nothing will move during that time at the airport:

http://www.stern.de/reise/service/ar...lotsen-zum-streik-auf-1792703.html

Expect major chaos Wednesday.
Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
 
wilco737
Posts: 7279
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:45 am

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Thread starter):

Oh boy, that will be interesting as I am supposed to land tomorrow morning at 5am in FRA. And due to the curfew we are not allowed to land earlier.

It's gonna be a mess during these hours I am sure.

wilco737
  
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8538
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:04 am

With some luck they could lift the curfew and land whatever gets in befre 5 am. After all, it is not the airlines fault

However, I could imagine that the long distance flights are diverted to DUS/CGN/STR etc. if the strike takes place.

Just in the radio news LH is pondering to sue the union and DFS (ATC).
powered by Eierlikör
 
wilco737
Posts: 7279
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:08 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 2):
With some luck they could lift the curfew and land whatever gets in befre 5 am. After all, it is not the airlines fault

I doubt it. But it is a possibility. But still difficult to let the airplanes depart earlier at their destination and then go full throttle to FRA just to arrive before 5am. Costs a lot of extra money for the extra fuel burn.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 2):
However, I could imagine that the long distance flights are diverted to DUS/CGN/STR etc. if the strike takes place.

Yes. Will be crowded there. Maybe MUC as well. As I am coming in from the US I guess I will end up in DUS or CGN.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 2):
Just in the radio news LH is pondering to sue the union and DFS (ATC).

Sure they do. It is getting very expensive and LH doesn't want to lose more money.

wilco737
  
 
keuleatr72
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:30 am

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:34 am

wilco737, any word if LH would delay the departure of the flights that would arrive during the hours of the strike?
In Putins´ Russia Waldo finds you...
 
wilco737
Posts: 7279
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:36 am

Quoting keuleatr72 (Reply 4):
wilco737, any word if LH would delay the departure of the flights that would arrive during the hours of the strike?

Not yet. The information is quite new out, so I guess crew scheduling will check all options now before they actually do something. My aircraft I am supposed to fly to FRA hasn't even departed FRA yet, so they have still many hours to figure it out. At least 8 hours.
You never know what happens until then.

wilco737
  
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8538
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:53 pm

Lufthansa and Fraport went to court today to flight agaoinst that "solidarity strike" by the controllers. Just because the same mini union represents the strikers as well as the controllers they think that they can take people employed by company A (DFS) to sympathy strike for people employed by company B (Fraport) and damage company C (Lufthansa) the hardest.

That is something now few people really understand, high qualified employees strike to support low qualified personel?

What will happen eventually is that the marshallers will lose their jobs because they are simply not needed. Most, if not all stands, are meanwhile equipped with electronic gear helüping the pilot to park the aircraft at the gate. What's the job of the marshaller anyhow? Pilots have charts for each airport, they know where the stands are and there are systems available that leads an aircraft to the stand. OK, apron controllers would handle that, but for sure, the low qualified guys in the chequered vans will be dinosaurs from the day the new contract is signed.
powered by Eierlikör
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:55 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 6):
That is something now few people really understand, high qualified employees strike to support low qualified personel?

This is what the big unions would like to have: e.g. us licenced maintenance engineers go on strike to support the cleaners or loaders because we can ground whole fleets by refusing to work and are not easily replaceable..
It is one reason why I joined a small union, which only deals with licenced staff. We take care of our business. If the others would want to get our privileges, they should have better paid attention in school and get qualified.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
mmedford
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:54 pm

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:08 pm

Now this may sound like a stupid idea..

But what if the airlines got together and chipped into a fund that acts as a subsidy to Air Traffic employees who are threatening striking?

It's gotta be cheaper to throw $2 or 3m into a pot every year than to have to spend the resources in house to work around the constant impending strike.
ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
 
s4popo
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:36 am

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:26 pm

I hope they get fired!
 
wilco737
Posts: 7279
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:07 pm

Many, many flight cancellations take place at the moment. Many short haul flights got cancelled and several long haul flights are cancelled as well for today and tomorrow.

wilco737
  
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:35 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 6):
Lufthansa and Fraport went to court today to flight agaoinst that "solidarity strike" by the controllers. Just because the same mini union represents the strikers as well as the controllers they think that they can take people employed by company A (DFS) to sympathy strike for people employed by company B (Fraport) and damage company C (Lufthansa) the hardest.

Aren´t solidarity strikes illegal in Germany?

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
wilco737
Posts: 7279
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:37 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 11):
Aren´t solidarity strikes illegal in Germany?

It is the same union. But I don't know if legal or not. Will be decided by the court tonight.

But flight got cancelled already and the harm is done.

wilco737
  
 
tim171080
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 6:08 am

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:44 pm

wilco737, your flight is LH 423 I assume, it was cancelled as well. Have a nice day in BOS!

Many other flights will be delayed for 3-6 hours to arrive after 11am LT.

[Edited 2012-02-28 11:45:44]
 
wilco737
Posts: 7279
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:45 pm

Quoting tim171080 (Reply 13):
wilco737, your flight is LH 423 I assume, it was cancelled as well. Have a nice day in BOS!

I know   Looks like I have 2 more days here as it seems the flight LH422 FRA-BOS tomorrow is cancelled as well according to LH website.

wilco737
  
 
tim171080
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 6:08 am

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:54 pm

any idea if those flights that were delayed or cancelled so far, but with equipment readily available at departure airport, will they fly as soon as the ArbG FRA issues the preliminary injunction (e.V.)?

That would mean taking back a publicly announced delay/cancellation of a flight, is that possible?
 
User avatar
airportugal310
Posts: 3217
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:49 pm

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:57 pm

Quoting tim171080 (Reply 13):
I know Looks like I have 2 more days here as it seems the flight LH422 FRA-BOS tomorrow is cancelled as well according to LH website.


Supposed to snow a little tomorrow...just when we were thinking we might escape for the season!  Smile

[Edited 2012-02-28 11:58:33]
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
wilco737
Posts: 7279
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:58 pm

Quoting tim171080 (Reply 15):
any idea if those flights that were delayed or cancelled so far, but with equipment readily available at departure airport, will they fly as soon as the ArbG FRA issues the preliminary injunction (e.V.)?

No, don't have any information which flights got cancelled. We have a 744 herein BOS, so we could depart anytime. Problem is: How to inform 324 passengers that the flight is not cancelled and will depart in 5 hours? You cannot do that. So you cancel, rebook the passengers and then at one point set a new departure date and time and then fly. Maybe even ferry back to FRA if all the passengers have been rebooked already.

Quoting tim171080 (Reply 15):
That would mean taking back a publicly announced delay/cancellation of a flight, is that possible?

It is possible. But I doubt it will be done.

wilco737
  
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8538
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:26 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 11):
Aren´t solidarity strikes illegal in Germany?

IMHO yes, Jan. But it seems not to be so easy, otherwise they would have the court order already.

That controllers union still has a law suit pending from last year when they announced but called off later a strike of the controllers. Both LH and AB have sued for approximately 1,5 million e each.

If the court tonight or tomorrow finds that the solidarity strike is illegal, the president of that club will have something to explain to his members. That could cost them dearly.
powered by Eierlikör
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8538
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:35 pm

...was just reading the news, the president of the controllers union as well as the union are fully liable for damages, if the court finds in a later ruling that the solidarity strike of the 12 controllers tomorrow is "disproportional".

How can someone get involved in such a stupid action and gamble his personal property for such a cause? As wilco said, the damage is done, even if they call the strike off now. The cancellations will last into Thursday

[Edited 2012-02-28 12:36:03]
powered by Eierlikör
 
rjm777ual
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:32 pm

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:49 pm

Here's another link on the Lufthansa website

http://www.lufthansa.com/de/en/Travel-information
Greetings from Dulles!
 
wilco737
Posts: 7279
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:51 pm

Quoting rjm777ual (Reply 20):

It is quite a list of cancelled flights. Many long hauls and even more short hauls.

wilco737
  
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8538
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:59 pm

...and the court has ruled that the 12 air traffic controllers are not allowed to strike tomorrow.

The union will be presented a nice invoice for that, could well be in the double digits. If they are wise, they call off the other strike as wlel tomorrow, they lost and Fraport will not even sign the contract they had agreed on already.
powered by Eierlikör
 
wilco737
Posts: 7279
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:01 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 22):
...and the court has ruled that the 12 air traffic controllers are not allowed to strike tomorrow.

Alright. Good news... My flight is cancelled anyway.

wilco737
  
 
tim171080
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 6:08 am

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:17 pm

They should try to get out flights now asap, even if not all passengers are at the airport, for the sake of Network stability.
 
INNflyer
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:37 am

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:40 pm

The court just deemed the ATC strike to be illegal about 30 min ago (http://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/flughafenstreik120.html)

I am glad since I flew BOS-FRA-INN on Sunday/Monday, but feel sorry now for others being stranded far away from home
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:17 pm

Lovely, lovely, lovely... pseudo-privatise ATC and then have the courts forbid their strikes. Hooray!   
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
rjm777ual
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:32 pm

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:26 pm

My flight to IAD is cancelled.....UA 777
Greetings from Dulles!
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8538
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:26 pm

Just in - the court ordered the union to cancell the main strike immediately and go back to work.

That is for the marshallers, the sympathy strike was made illegal already last night. the iunion lost both cases. if they lose the appeal, if they appeal, as well, that#s it for them
powered by Eierlikör
 
PlaneInsomniac
Topic Author
Posts: 356
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:34 am

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:31 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 28):
Just in - the court ordered the union to cancell the main strike immediately and go back to work.

Wow! Talk about an unexpected turn of events. Going from totally blocking FRA to no strike at all in less than a day...
Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
 
wilco737
Posts: 7279
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:31 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 28):
Just in - the court ordered the union to cancell the main strike immediately and go back to work.

That is for the marshallers, the sympathy strike was made illegal already last night. the iunion lost both cases. if they lose the appeal, if they appeal, as well, that#s it for them

Looks like a bad day for them. So maybe the strike will be over very soon and ops can go back to normal.

wilco737
  
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8538
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:44 pm

Yes, looks like they had a bad hand of cards. If they lose the appeal as well that iunion is in for dire stratits, Lh will present the bill to them, The LH board member n charge of human ressources was on TV last night and it looks like they will not waste time.

Came to my mind regarding the qualification of the marshallers whose job description does nnot even require English.

What is a ramp agent supposed to earn , who has much more responsibility, needs fluent English and has to do and understand weight and balance? In short, by far better qualified than the chequered bus drivers.
powered by Eierlikör
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8538
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:06 pm

The union will not appeal so we can look forward to a regular traffic flow by thursday evening, latest Friday.

These union guys are real amateurs, they come up with lunatic demands and then they have items on their agenda which are still under a valid contract which has not yet expired and hence cannot be used as a reason to strike.

Under these circumstances the judge cannot rule anything else.
powered by Eierlikör
 
wilco737
Posts: 7279
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:44 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 32):
The union will not appeal so we can look forward to a regular traffic flow by thursday evening, latest Friday.

That's good.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 32):
These union guys are real amateurs, they come up with lunatic demands and then they have items on their agenda which are still under a valid contract which has not yet expired and hence cannot be used as a reason to strike.

Doesn't sound too well prepared here.

wilco737
  
 
Stratofish
Posts: 1033
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:38 am

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:56 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 31):
Lh will present the bill to them, The LH board member n charge of human ressources was on TV last night and it looks like they will not waste time.

Hopefully a judge will tell them to present the bill to Fraport as they are the real culprits. The GdF union was willing to accept the mediation.

I read that for the majority of controllers the terms of employment would resemble those of their colleagues at MUC so the often cited "disproportionality" is nothing but a Myth.

What a banana-republic we live in:  http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/0,1518,818394,00.html

According to the assessment of one single judge two minor details voided their constitutional right to strike.
Sad and dangerous developments!
The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8538
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:09 am

Quoting Stratofish (Reply 34):
Hopefully a judge will tell them to present the bill to Fraport as they are the real culprits.

We will find that out, relax. This current law suit is dating back from strike actions last year, the bill for last weeks actions will follow, and that will be more than the 3 million €.

Quoting Stratofish (Reply 34):
According to the assessment of one single judge two minor details voided their constitutional right to strike.
Sad and dangerous developments!

well, that is what the judiciary system is all about, if a so called "uniuon2 is made up of amateurs who do mnoit hire a counsel, that could have told them, they run against a wall and will pay for that.

BTW, Germany would be a banana republic when unskilled labor that is not even required to speak English makes € 60K p.a. for driving chequered buses around the apron. Many who have graduated unoiversity don't make that much. Payment has to be in loine with others, that applies for airports and any other industry.

The real air traffic controller s used that argument when they demanded similar pay to what pilots mkae.
powered by Eierlikör
 
Stratofish
Posts: 1033
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:38 am

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:35 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 35):
BTW, Germany would be a banana republic when unskilled labor that is not even required to speak English makes € 60K p.a. for driving chequered buses around the apron.

The follow-me car drivers a just a faction of the people we talk about. And those who manage the little space FRA has to park aircraft do need and have skills.
As for the follow-me van drivers I see them become obsolete and replaced by technology within this decade anyway. For now it's the geezers at the LBA (German Aviation Authority) that keep them alive.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 35):
Many who have graduated university don't make that much. Payment has to be in line with others, that applies for airports and any other industry.

No need to tell me... but comparisons aren't applicable here. Mr. Schulte's salary for example is not in line, not even quite  
The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8538
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:22 am

Quoting Stratofish (Reply 36):
No need to tell me... but comparisons aren't applicable here. Mr. Schulte's salary for example is not in line, not even quite

you are wrong about that, he is absolutely in line with his peers. The fact that the follow me drivers become obsolete (they are actually already osbolete today) is no reason to give them an unjustified salacry increasse. I ackowledge that the other 110 people out of the 200 eventually should have an increase but a fact is, that little union is following the wroing strategy.

Tey want everything and they want it now. They are riding a volcano and could become obsolete long before the LBA says that follow me drivers are no longer needed. the had of that union actually knows it and I don't understand the guy, because he is, eventually, personally liable for the damages which third parties like the airlines have. How stupid can one be?
powered by Eierlikör
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:14 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 37):
you are wrong about that, he is absolutely in line with his peers.

Excellent! Now you should applaud the union for demanding no more than what their peers at MUC already get.  

[Edited 2012-03-02 06:15:14]
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
mmedford
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:54 pm

RE: FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:31 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 26):
Lovely, lovely, lovely... pseudo-privatise ATC and then have the courts forbid their strikes. Hooray!
Quoting aloges (Reply 38):
Excellent! Now you should applaud the union for demanding no more than what their peers at MUC already get.

You know; I don't think you're allowed to be making this much sense.

When will the public learn you can't have it both ways..praise the individuals for the work they do and importance to the operation and then don't wish to pay them; what they think their worth... priceless.
ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8538
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:57 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 38):
Excellent! Now you should applaud the union for demanding no more than what their peers at MUC already get

why should I? You cannot compare the guy who is responsible to run the place profitable, and exactly for that he gets his income, with unskilled workers who demand an academics salary.,

It is the CEO's job not to agrees to exaggerated demands. We all do not have the exact details, but Fraport has offered to get to the comparable MUC tariff and the offer is on the table. That union howver wants the pie in the sky.

Let'Äs see who will be the winner in this case, the only way they can fill the demands is to farm these workers out into a separate limited company. If I were a union leader, I would be very careful to step on that mine field.
powered by Eierlikör
 
Delboy
Posts: 689
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 12:57 am

RE: FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:10 pm

The ANA B787 flight diverted to Heathrow this morning. Was it because of the industrial action or was it for another reason?
 
mmedford
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:54 pm

RE: FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:30 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 40):
with unskilled workers who demand an academics salary



Now, how do you know these workers are unskilled?

I know many people who have degrees in one field, but do something completely different and unrelated but it pays more. There is a member on this forum who has a BA and Masters related to aviation management and psychology, but prefers during his customer service job; because 1. the benefits & 2. the only job that he could find that was consistent.

I use to work with an immigrant that had a degree in veterinary medicine; but preferred stocking shelves and managing a local drug store because it paid more and the discount within the store.

Your ignorance is incredible; your opinion is biased. Who are you to decide what an employee should get?
ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
 
LOWS
Posts: 1194
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:37 am

RE: FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:35 pm

Quoting Delboy (Reply 41):
The ANA B787 flight diverted to Heathrow this morning. Was it because of the industrial action or was it for another reason?

Heavy fog in FRA.
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8538
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:42 pm

Quoting mmedford (Reply 42):
Now, how do you know these workers are unskilled?

was mentioned svereal times already. No language skills needed, qualifiation is drivers licence and several courses taken over 2 years.

I asked somewhere before in this thread (or maybe another one aout this topic) what a ramp agent must earn, who has all the responsibility for loading the aircraft including weight and balance. Same applies for certfied mechanics. Earning € 60K p.a. for that job is totally out of line.

.
powered by Eierlikör
 
mmedford
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:54 pm

RE: FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:12 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 44):
No language skills needed, qualifiation is drivers licence and several courses taken over 2 years.

Just because that's their minimal requirements...doesn't mean the employees can't exceed them.
ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
 
User avatar
Semaex
Posts: 734
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:17 pm

RE: FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:04 pm

Quoting mmedford (Reply 42):
Now, how do you know these workers are unskilled?

I know many people who have degrees in one field, but do something completely different and unrelated but it pays more.

So you're saying that if I make a Masters Degree in International Relations and work for a well-known American Restaurant because the United Nations office is already fully stocked, I should still be earning seven times as much as my fellow collegues who happen to just have dropped out of school, while I am doing the same work as they do?

That is what I would call ignorance.

You get paid for the job you do. It doesn't matter whether you have English Profficiency level 20 and are the descendend of a well-known royal family. It really doesn't. You get paid for the output you bring, based on the miminum requirements you must have. In this light, I can only shake my head at what those people demand.
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
 
mmedford
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:54 pm

RE: FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:46 pm

Quoting Semaex (Reply 46):
You get paid for the job you do. It doesn't matter whether you have English Profficiency level 20 and are the descendend of a well-known royal family. It really doesn't. You get paid for the output you bring, based on the miminum requirements you must have. In this light, I can only shake my head at what those people demand.

I understand that; but read my posts quoting the user "PanHAM"...I'm calling him out on the point of that he is insulting people he doesn't know.

We all negotiate for as much as we can get; regardless if we are worth it or not. It's human nature to get the best terms as possible; you would be foolish for doing anything but that.

[Edited 2012-03-02 10:50:04]
ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012

Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:02 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 40):
why should I? You cannot compare the guy who is responsible to run the place profitable, and exactly for that he gets his income, with unskilled workers who demand an academics salary.,

You were making the point that salaries which are in line with those of your peers are OK. Over the entire duration of this Schmierentheater, I've been noticing you anti-labour "How DARE they?!" stance, so a slight poke seemed appropriate.   May I also remind you that none of this would have happened if not for Fraport's rejection of the mediation result?

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 40):
We all do not have the exact details, but Fraport has offered to get to the comparable MUC tariff and the offer is on the table.

I beg your pardon?! If "we" do not know the details, how do we know what Fraport has offered? The devil is always in the details!
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.