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China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:54 pm

FlightGlobal are reporting a new order for the 77W

China Southern Airlines has agreed to acquire 10 Boeing 777-300ERs, the first time this specific type has been selected by the carrier.

The Guangzhou-based carrier said it would purchase the aircraft, the list price for which is $298 million apiece, and take delivery in stages from 2013-16.


End fair use from FlightGlobal

China Southern will become a new operator of the type and it appears they are new orders and not UFOs, it does not mention if the order awaits approval from the Chinese Government.

For total year to date sales refer to Airbus And Boeing Orders 2012 Part 1 (by someone83 Jan 24 2012 in Civil Aviation)
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
mogandoCI
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:59 pm

Congrats CZ .... they've long had a gap between their 77Es and their A380s.

Now - if only they'll open up more North American destinations. CAN has played ugly-stepsister to PEK/PVG/HKG for too long.
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:25 pm

Guess they'll bring these to LHR?

Good news anyway.

Any chance of more A380s?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
bthebest
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:35 pm

It said there were substantial discounts - could this include some sort of compensation for 787 delays?

Although I would have thought that would have already been sorted. When are CZ due to recieve their 788s?
 
ba319-131
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:51 pm

Makes sense, they need a bridge between the 772's and A380.


I flew on one of this A380's this week, least than a quarter full on the PEK-CAN sector, that said there are multiple flights on this route daily, I suspect these are more for staff training before Intl routes start in ernest.
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CHRISBA777ER
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:08 pm

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 4):
Makes sense, they need a bridge between the 772's and A380.


I flew on one of this A380's this week, least than a quarter full on the PEK-CAN sector, that said there are multiple flights on this route daily, I suspect these are more for staff training before Intl routes start in ernest.

What was the hard product like?

Where are they deploying them? Assume SFO and LAX - will do great on there.

They havent started LHR yet but I'd guess we'll see A332 then 77W and hopefully A388 when they do. Nicer livery than MU and CA I think.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
ba319-131
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:17 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 5):

- Y seating was fine, legroom seemed generous, all in all fine though no charging points or USB points in economy.

The JCL product looked a but 'plastic' and not that roomy, I might be wrong if sat in it, but passing past I was distinctly unimpressed.

There will be a TR with pictures up in a week or so, need to find the time, flying back tomorrow.

Re intl routes, I would expect CDG first, possibly LAX next, though they don't have daily service so this would be a significant capacity increase, not sure if they could fill them unless on cheap connections within the asian region.
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jfk777
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:41 pm

This is probably a replacement for their current 772 fleet. Instead of updating older planes they will have new A380's and 77W's with the same J and F products.
 
B2443
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 4):
I flew on one of this A380's this week, least than a quarter full on the PEK-CAN sector, that said there are multiple flights on this route daily, I suspect these are more for staff training before Intl routes start in ernest.

Partly because those seats with A380 are only sold at full price, wherewas other flights are sold at discounts.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 2):
Any chance of more A380s?

there are rumors them ordering 5 additional 380's. The question is where are they deploying them to. In the near term the 380s are or will be flying between PEK, PVG, CAN, and HKG. what a shame, with only 1/4 full.
 
olddominion727
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:17 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 5):

@ChrisBA... CZ doesn't fly into SFO
 
na
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:25 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):

This is probably a replacement for their current 772 fleet.

Likely, CZs 772s are among the oldest around and more than once were described as being in rather bad condition, also the airline wanted to sell them some time ago already, raising no interest. Those 77Ws will be for replacement, but also for growth.

Quoting B2443 (Reply 8):
what a shame, with only 1/4 full.

??? Then even a A332 would be too big, not to speak of 77Ws.
 
B2443
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:40 pm

Quoting na (Reply 10):
??? Then even a A332 would be too big, not to speak of 77Ws.

Like I said the 380 seats are sold at full price, whereas the 332's and 777's are sold at discounts. Therefore 332 and 777's wouldn't been too big. If the 380 seats were sold with discounts, it wouldn't be too 'big' either.
 
as739x
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:12 pm

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 9):

But lets hope this free's up the 772 from LAX to start SFO service.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
boeingfever777
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:22 pm

Very cool, are they looking at expanding long haul service? I know they got the a380 for that currnetly and fly what 2-3 of them with (5) on order.

Are they going to start SFO, ORD, JFK, or IAH finally?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:29 pm

There is a rumour of Toronto service after the recent trade deals between Canada and China. It was also called a connecting flight so could be YYZ to YVR. I know trade is expanding but a lot of lift is coming on pretty quickly so I am a bit skeptical it is more than a rumour.
 
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Stitch
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:50 pm

Quoting Bthebest (Reply 3):
It said there were substantial discounts - could this include some sort of compensation for 787 delays?

Substantial discounts are the industry norm, now.  

Also, CZ has delayed delivery of their 787s by their own choice, so Boeing arguably should owe them no additional compensation.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:11 pm

Quoting boeingfever777 (Reply 13):
Are they going to start SFO, ORD, JFK, or IAH finally?

SFO Yes
ORD Yes
JFK Yes
IAH why ? is CAN an energy hub ?
 
boeingfever777
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:06 am

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 16):

IAH why ? is CAN an energy hub ?

Skyteam member.
Has a cargo presence.
10% of Houston demographic is Chinese/Asian.

If NH or KE doesn't start IAH then some carrier should.
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Polot
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:20 am

Quoting boeingfever777 (Reply 17):
Skyteam member.

No Skyteam member has a hub in IAH...
 
kaitak744
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:35 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
Also, CZ has delayed delivery of their 787s by their own choice, so Boeing arguably should owe them no additional compensation.

There are a few 787s in PAE that are in the CZ livery. Will those be delivered to another airline then?
 
YVRLTN
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:43 am

Quoting boeingfever777 (Reply 13):
are they looking at expanding long haul service?

YVR was new last year and is to increase from 3 weekly to 5 weekly this summer. The 77W would be a fantastic aircraft for this route.
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
HDA212
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:43 am

Good that they finally filled the gap between the old 772ERs and the new A380s. Thank God they didn't go with HU's choice of aircraft, the A346
 
laca773
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:28 am

I'd think the LAX route would go 787 first but if they have delayed delivery of their birds, we won't be seeing that. I've heard their LAX market doesn't do very well. Their soft products are not good, below average from what I understand.
 
ZKCIF
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:24 am

Quoting HDA212 (Reply 21):
Good that they finally filled the gap between the old 772ERs and the new A380s. Thank God they didn't go with HU's choice of aircraft, the A346

What is wrong with Hainan's 346?
 
Nicoeddf
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:03 am

Quoting ZKCIF (Reply 23):
What is wrong with Hainan's 346?

Yeah - actually the most comfortable a/c to fly in, imho.
 
HDA212
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:09 am

Quoting ZKCIF (Reply 23):
Quoting nicoeddf (Reply 24):

The A346 wouldn't really be the most effective aircraft for their operation...
 
TeamintheSky
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:48 am

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 16):
SFO Yes
ORD Yes
JFK Yes
IAH why ? is CAN an energy hub ?
Quoting boeingfever777 (Reply 17):
Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 16):

IAH why ? is CAN an energy hub ?


Skyteam member.
Has a cargo presence.
10% of Houston demographic is Chinese/Asian.

I would hope for ATL, but DL is already struggling on PVG and PEK, very doubtful they will bring in other carriers to serve that route
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laca773
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:09 am

Quoting HDA212 (Reply 25):

The A346 wouldn't really be the most effective aircraft for their operation...

Perhaps they are looking at economics and fuel efficiency at this point in which the 77W does much better.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:04 pm

Quoting boeingfever777 (Reply 17):
Skyteam member.
Has a cargo presence.
10% of Houston demographic is Chinese/Asian.

If NH or KE doesn't start IAH then some carrier should.

No SkyTeam airline hubs at IAH anymore.

And usually cargo presence is only weakly correlated with passenger demand. China Airlines flies cargo only to AUH too, but I can't imagine them starting pax service anytime soon.
 
A388
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:18 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 28):
Quoting boeingfever777 (Reply 17):
Skyteam member.
Has a cargo presence.
10% of Houston demographic is Chinese/Asian.

If NH or KE doesn't start IAH then some carrier should.

No SkyTeam airline hubs at IAH anymore.

boeingfever777 probably still had in mind that CO still was a SkyTeam member which indeed isn't the case anymore (for quite some time now to my knowledge).

A388
 
747400sp
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:50 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 5):
Assume SFO and LAX - will do great on there.





Better yet, LAX and SFO. I from the Los Angeles area, so I could not let that go.
 
A388
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:06 pm

I was wondering though, why hasn't CZ gone for the A350(-1000?) or the 787(-10, will it be launched)? I know these models are still far away from entry into service but seeing that CZ will receive their 77W's between 2013 and 2016, why not wait a few more years to get a similarly sized aircraft with improved performance/economics? Or does CZ desperately need to fill that gap between their A380 and 772 sooner rather than later? Or is this purchase mainly driven by the significant discount they received?

Also, will we see CZ use these 77W's to AMS as well or will they use the A380 to AMS in the coming year or so?

A388
 
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Stitch
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:14 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 31):
I was wondering though, why hasn't CZ gone for the A350(-1000?) or the 787(-10, will it be launched)? I know these models are still far away from entry into service but seeing that CZ will receive their 77W's between 2013 and 2016, why not wait a few more years to get a similarly sized aircraft with improved performance/economics?

I believe CZ needs a 350-seater and they can't/don't want to wait until ~2020 for an A350-1000. They'll be generating revenue with the 777-300ER for upwards of a decade before they could generate revenue with an A350-1000 and that can have a large impact on the value proposition.

I would also expect that one of Boeing's goals is to sell as many 777s as they can now to push the replacement window for 350-seat twins from the early 2020's - when the A350-1000 will be available - to the late 2020's/early 2030's - when the Y3 (777 replacement) will be available.

By increasing the production rate, they lower the production cost (allowing them to lower the sales price while maintaining margins) and create additional delivery slots to secure customers. If CZ could not get their first 777-300ER until 2016, as opposed to their last, they may very well have decided to wait for the A350-1000.
 
A388
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:48 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 32):
I believe CZ needs a 350-seater and they can't/don't want to wait until ~2020 for an A350-1000. They'll be generating revenue with the 777-300ER for upwards of a decade before they could generate revenue with an A350-1000 and that can have a large impact on the value proposition.

I would also expect that one of Boeing's goals is to sell as many 777s as they can now to push the replacement window for 350-seat twins from the early 2020's - when the A350-1000 will be available - to the late 2020's/early 2030's - when the Y3 (777 replacement) will be available.

By increasing the production rate, they lower the production cost (allowing them to lower the sales price while maintaining margins) and create additional delivery slots to secure customers. If CZ could not get their first 777-300ER until 2016, as opposed to their last, they may very well have decided to wait for the A350-1000.

That seems to make sense, thanks for the explanation. So this means that the 77W still has a lot of potential customers out there who are seeking delivery no later then 2016?

Any thoughts?

A388
 
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Polot
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:28 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 33):
So this means that the 77W still has a lot of potential customers out there who are seeking delivery no later then 2016?

Of course. With the A35J not entering service until 2017(assuming no delays), the A350's backlog, and the termination of the A340 program airlines really don't have that much of a choice if they want something the size of the 77W in significant quantities before 2020.
 
B2443
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:34 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
China Southern will become a new operator of the type and it appears they are new orders and not UFOs, it does not mention if the order awaits approval from the Chinese Government.

Yes it's pending Chinese government approval.
 
ba319-131
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RE: China Southern To Order 10 B777-300ER

Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:08 pm

Quoting HDA212 (Reply 21):
Thank God they didn't go with HU's choice of aircraft, the A346

- I flew on one of these on Monday, lovely crew and great plane, a little on the worn side but otherwise very nice.
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