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legacyins
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:54 pm

With the new beyond perimeter slots becoming available at DCA, UA has filed to swap one ORD roundtrip for one SFO roundtrip. The first flight is planned for May 14th. They intend to use a 73G or "other suitable single-aisle non-wodebody aircraft." The proposed schedule is tentative as follows:

DCA 0800 arrive SFO 1110

SFO 1230 arrive DCA 2045
 
lhcvg
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:58 pm

I saw the 73G mentioned in the other thread as well, along with mention of a possible upgauge to a 738. I always figured this would be a 757 route, since they'd probably want to have as much capacity as possible - is SFO too much for a 757 out of DCA? I would think that an AS 738 to LAX probably takes at least as much runway as a 757 would to SFO.
 
SANFan
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:58 pm

FYI, this is already being discussed as part of the overall DCA beyond-perimeter proceedings here:

Eight More DCA Beyond-Perimeter Slots - Pt 2 (by SANFan Feb 27 2012 in Civil Aviation)

bb
 
redrooster3
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:58 pm

This is huge news, even for us in SAN. Did the bill already get passed?! Could we now see trans-con DCA routes?
The only thing you should change about a woman is her last name.
 
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legacyins
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:03 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 2):

Sorry missed that one...
 
SANFan
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:06 pm

Quoting legacyins (Reply 4):
Sorry missed that one...

No prob, just wanted to let you know. (The UA decision was revealed on that thread yesterday even though the news was only posted on the DOT docket this morning.)

  

bb
 
joeljack
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:17 pm

Quoting legacyins (Thread starter):
DCA 0800 arrive SFO 1110

SFO 1230 arrive DCA 2045

Flight times are terrible for business travelers. 8am DCA departure? This should be a 6am...getting in early enough to do business for the day. The other direction, leaving at 1230? That wastes the entire day. It should be an overnight flight or at worst, first thing 6am flight that allows you to do business on a Weekday than return home first thing the next morning.

I just forwarded this schedule to a friend of mine that travels this route every week that at first he was very excited about the prospects of a DCA-SFO nonstop on UA and now that I've shown him the schedule...his quote was "these times are completely worthless for me and everybody else in my company" By the way, he works for Deloitte.
 
rwsea
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:26 pm

Quoting joeljack (Reply 6):
Flight times are terrible for business travelers. 8am DCA departure? This should be a 6am...getting in early enough to do business for the day. The other direction, leaving at 1230? That wastes the entire day. It should be an overnight flight or at worst, first thing 6am flight that allows you to do business on a Weekday than return home first thing the next morning.

They're convenient for business travelers based in the DC area. The timings allow a morning, and allow a morning of work before going to the airport. These west coast to NY/DC flights can't leave much later than this and arrive at a reasonable time in DC.

That said, it looks more like these are timed to SFO's Asian departure bank. They also allow easy connections to other destinations on the west coast.
 
SANFan
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:39 pm

BTW, I thought I'd point out that the title of this thread is somewhat misleading. UA did not apply for anything; UA selected, and will fly, SFO-DCA. The process in these proceedings is for UA and the other Big 4 cx to select their new DCA-route, and begin flying it. Very simple. (See the other threads for details and further discussions.)

bb
 
mercure1
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:50 pm

Quoting joeljack (Reply 6):
Flight times are terrible for business travelers.

Times are meant to feed and connect to UA's Pacific bank of flights.

Check out UA's other low frequency service at SFO, and they are mostly built around the noon'ish peak.

Good choice UA   
 
wedgetail737
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:02 pm

Quoting joeljack (Reply 6):
Flight times are terrible for business travelers. 8am DCA departure? This should be a 6am...getting in early enough to do business for the day. The other direction, leaving at 1230? That wastes the entire day. It should be an overnight flight or at worst, first thing 6am flight that allows you to do business on a Weekday than return home first thing the next morning.

This departure time is good for Asia travelers out of SFO and good enough for those connecting through SFO from up and down the west coast.
 
joeljack
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:06 pm

Quoting rwsea (Reply 7):
They're convenient for business travelers based in the DC area. The timings allow a morning, and allow a morning of work before going to the airport. These west coast to NY/DC flights can't leave much later than this and arrive at a reasonable time in DC.

That said, it looks more like these are timed to SFO's Asian departure bank. They also allow easy connections to other destinations on the west coast.

Not true..he lives in DC and goes to SFO every week...leaves Monday am first thing and back Thursday night or first thing friday morning after work. This schedule doesn't work for him at all and I suspect many others that do the same thing as him.

SFO-DCA needs to leave at 6am or at 1130pm for the business traveler and DCA-SFO needs to leave at 6am to get you in early enough to get work done that Monday.
 
steex
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:11 pm

Quoting joeljack (Reply 11):
SFO-DCA needs to leave at 6am or at 1130pm for the business traveler and DCA-SFO needs to leave at 6am to get you in early enough to get work done that Monday.

In the case of DCA-SFO, what business is UA leaving on the table, though? Passengers currently would be departing DCA as early as possible on Monday morning, which is probably around 5:30 AM at the earliest, and getting to SFO maybe an hour sooner than the UA non-stop by the time they make a connection somewhere. Given the choice between a 5:30-10:00 itinerary and an 8:00-11:10 itinerary, a lot of folks will pick the non-stop, get a few extra hours of sleep before they leave, and still end up with the afternoon to work in the Bay Area.
 
tommy767
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:12 pm

8am leaving DCA is OK but out of SFO the time is ridiculous.

I also think this should be an easy 757 route for UA. Either PMCO 757 or PMUA 757.

If this route ever gains momentum I'd love to see DCA-SFO under the PS brand.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
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OzarkD9S
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:15 pm

Quoting joeljack (Reply 11):


SFO-DCA needs to leave at 6am or at 1130pm for the business traveler and DCA-SFO needs to leave at 6am to get you in early enough to get work done that Monday.

One nonstop flight in each direction can't possibly serve all the needs of every pax. Plenty of one-stop connecting possibilities plus nonstops to IAD. The DCA nonstop to/from SFO is timed to maximize Asian connections it appears, until the perimeter rule goes away and airlines can utilize their slots as they see fit, this schedule is as good enough for now.
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SouthernDC9
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:21 pm

Quoting joeljack (Reply 11):
Not true..he lives in DC and goes to SFO every week...leaves Monday am first thing and back Thursday night or first thing friday morning after work. This schedule doesn't work for him at all and I suspect many others that do the same thing as him.

SFO-DCA needs to leave at 6am or at 1130pm for the business traveler and DCA-SFO needs to leave at 6am to get you in early enough to get work done that Monday.

Thing is UA has exactly one slot to play with here, so they probably crunched some numbers and figured these times were optimal for the way this flight is going to be used by most customers. I'm sure if they could they'd love to have another flight timed perfectly for your friend and other business travelers (though honestly, I would think lots of business travelers might be willing to adjust their schedules for the sake of having a non-stop instead of a connection, plus unless somebody up and puts a Concorde on this route it's just going to take awhile to get from DCA-SFO and back so there's always going to be some time sacrificed).
What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
 
peanuts
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:27 pm

Quoting joeljack (Reply 6):
Flight times are terrible for business travelers.
Quoting joeljack (Reply 6):
"these times are completely worthless for me and everybody else in my company"
Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 13):
8am leaving DCA is OK but out of SFO the time is ridiculous.

Wow. How times have changed the last 100 years. Let's be happy he doesn't have to go on horse and buggy.
I think in general some of these statements are overly dramatic. You'd have less sleep from the DC end if you leave on a 1 stop connection with a negligible earlier arrival time. Geez.

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 15):
I would think lots of business travelers might be willing to adjust their schedules for the sake of having a non-stop instead of a connection
Quoting steex (Reply 12):
In the case of DCA-SFO, what business is UA leaving on the table, though? Passengers currently would be departing DCA as early as possible on Monday morning, which is probably around 5:30 AM at the earliest, and getting to SFO maybe an hour sooner than the UA non-stop by the time they make a connection somewhere. Given the choice between a 5:30-10:00 itinerary and an 8:00-11:10 itinerary, a lot of folks will pick the non-stop, get a few extra hours of sleep before they leave, and still end up with the afternoon to work in the Bay Area.

Exactly.
 
peanuts
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:40 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 13):
out of SFO the time is ridiculous.

Well, UA must have done a simple costs/utilization/benefit analysis. Also, take into consideration there would be no other nonstop alternative (competition), aside from Pelosi's military charter, I'd say UA makes a good proposal.
 
codc10
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:43 pm

Quoting joeljack (Reply 11):

There are so many business travelers between SFO and Washington that I'm sure the flight will time out ideally for many of them. In the meantime, your friend can continue using IAD for the superior schedule despite the longer transit time to the airport.

At any rate, the earliest DCA-ORD-SFO for tomorrow leaves at 6:00am, transits ORD with a 49m connection, and arrives SFO at 10:48am... exactly 22 minutes sooner than the proposed nonstop with an 8:00am departure.

The 6am IAD-SFO is still available, as is a 7:40am flight, but you have to factor in travel time to get out to IAD (which really isn't bad at that hour) plus time processing at the airport. DCA is such a convenient airport for Washington that I'm sure travelers will be motivated to take the DCA flight simply because they are trying to avoid IAD.

This doesn't even take into account the possibility of easy transpacific connections at SFO around the arrival time of the new flight. There's a reason why the two early IAD-SFO flights are usually A319/320 and the 8:23am flight is a 777... if the 8am departure time was such an absolute nightmare for business travelers, I think we would see the 777 on an earlier flight, no?

As for the return, the time difference makes conducting business on the East Coast the day of arrival problematic. This schedule allows for an early morning in SFO or a transpacific arrival to connect to the DCA flight. IMO, it's a well-timed trip, and if you don't like it, there's still a full schedule to IAD.
 
AADC10
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:09 pm

UA's chances are probably fairly low. The routes are more likely to go to LCCs like B6 or VX.
 
lhcvg
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:15 pm

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 19):

UA's chances are probably fairly low. The routes are more likely to go to LCCs like B6 or VX.

Sorry to be a troll, but this is only a matter of UA (and the other 3 legacies) declaring their plans, and the within perimeter major hub slot that will get cut to "trade" for the beyond-perimeter slot. These 4 were specifically reserved for the 4 legacy carriers at DCA.
 
rwsea
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:18 pm

Quoting joeljack (Reply 11):
SFO-DCA needs to leave at 6am or at 1130pm for the business traveler and DCA-SFO needs to leave at 6am to get you in early enough to get work done that Monday.

For your typical consultant who travels cross country (and I am one of them), these timings are fine. It's perfectly acceptable to arrive around lunch time on Monday, and depart after lunch... especially when transcons (and another 5 hours of productive time on the plane) are involved.

With only one possibly frequency, UA can't serve everyone. The timings will do well with connections and to feed the Asian flights.
 
N62NA
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:36 pm

Quoting joeljack (Reply 6):
Flight times are terrible for business travelers. 8am DCA departure? This should be a 6am...getting in early enough to do business for the day.

Maybe I'm weak... but if I had to catch a 6am flight, by the time I arrived at SFO the only thing I would be ready for would be a bed.
 
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seabosdca
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:04 pm

Quoting joeljack (Reply 6):
It should be an overnight flight or at worst, first thing 6am flight that allows you to do business on a Weekday than return home first thing the next morning.

Every time the subject of daytime transcons comes up, someone says something like this... and yet the redeyes are always the poorest performing flights, usually by a very wide margin.

I think that's because if you take redeyes or 6 a.m. transcons and then go directly to work, then you show up looking like a body found in a dumpster. Most people who are not insane workaholics would rather a) get there a bit later or b) spend the extra night. The group of business travelers who won't sacrifice even one hour of business for sleep or sanity is smaller than you think, although Big Four accounting firms and BigLaw firms are good places to find them.

[Edited 2012-02-28 13:06:34]
 
AirCalSNA
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:06 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 23):
Every time the subject of daytime transcons comes up, someone says something like this... and yet the redeyes are always the poorest performing flights, usually by a very wide margin.

I think that's because if you take redeyes or 6 a.m. transcons and then go directly to work, then you show up looking like a body found in a dumpster. Most people who are not insane workaholics would rather a) get there a bit later or b) spend the extra night. The group of business travelers who won't sacrifice even one hour of business for sleep or sanity is smaller than you think, although Big Four accounting firms and BigLaw firms are good places to find them.

Even a 6 a.m.transcon departure from SFO arrives too late for any meaningful work to be completed that day.
 
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kgaiflyer
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:12 pm

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 1):
is SFO too much for a 757 out of DCA?

I believe this is a control-capacity thing.

The fewer seats -- the more valuable each seat-- the more charged per seat -- the higher the yields.
 
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kgaiflyer
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:24 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 22):
Maybe I'm weak... but if I had to catch a 6am flight, by the time I arrived at SFO the only thing I would be ready for would be a bed.


I guess it depends on the profession.

I do a 6am fly-out every 14 days, and I'm never alone on the plane.

My observations are, though, that the CO 738 with 5 premium rows up-front (the 20/132 configuration) seems to strike a happy medium.
 
Bobloblaw
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:32 pm

Quoting joeljack (Reply 6):
Flight times are terrible for business travelers. 8am DCA departure? This should be a 6am...getting in early enough to do business for the day.

No, a redeye is not a good idea. Youre right the timings are poor. More like SFO 0800 DCA 1615 DCA 1730 SFO 2045 would be ideal for the local market.

Looks like UA is trying to maximize connections in SFO which they think will maximaize the "economic" benefit to the region for cities that dont have good single connect service to DCA like MRY, BFL, ACV etc. Ive done DOT Route Cases, and the DOT does look at the total economic impact.


Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 25):
The fewer seats -- the more valuable each seat-- the more charged per seat -- the higher the yields.

sure, but the higher the CASM too. It would be odd for a 125 seat aircraft to be more profitable on a 2300 mile flight than a 180 seat aurcraft unless there isnt the demand. This is a point other carriers should use in their argument against UA getting the slots. UA is stupid for not at least filing with a 757.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 13):
If this route ever gains momentum I'd love to see DCA-SFO under the PS brand.

There is no benefi to that. People still dont knwo the reason for PS. PS works JFK becasue UA was the #2 carrier there versus AA. at least on JFK-LAX. PS shifts revenue, especially from the entertainment industry from AA to UA. That type of traffic doesnt exist in DC and plus UA is already the #1 carrier, so there would be no revenue shift only dilution. Plus DOT would look very dimly on flying a 112 seat 757 on such a restricted route.

As for an early AM flight out of DCA. There is traffic to SFO but most of that highher yield traffic resides closer to IAD where the high tech business is. The SFO-DCA flight wont be getting much DCA point of sale and it wont be getting high tech traffic. This is for the SFO and west coast market. A 1700 departure from DCA is best becasue it allows west coast pax top spend most of the day in DC doing ehat ever it is they do...lobby or what not.
 
codc10
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:40 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 25):
The fewer seats -- the more valuable each seat-- the more charged per seat -- the higher the yields.

Bingo. UA wants to protect yields on IAD-SFO too. If UA floods the DCA-SFO market with seats (not that they really could), they'd probably only be hurting themselves. It's not likely that UA will be attracting many new passengers with this service, due to UA's strong FF base on both ends of this route, so it will be a matter of finding the right formula of pricing and capacity to motivate a subset of their Washington to San Francisco passengers to pay more for the nonstop.

As for the timing, it also makes UA's extensive SFO transpacific portfolio accessible with one stop and a reasonable layover from DCA. All these factors point toward a route where UA can command strong yield premiums. A true "niche" or "boutique" flight.

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 26):

My observations are, though, that the CO 738 with 5 premium rows up-front (the 20/132 configuration) seems to strike a happy medium.

It will be a 737-700 to start off, and any 737-800s operating the route would likely be 737-800SFP ships, of which all are configured with 16F. Further, the midlav birds will be reconfigured to the standard 16F/48Y+/90Y later this year.
 
steex
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:42 pm

Quoting BobLoblaw (Reply 27):
Ive done DOT Route Cases, and the DOT does look at the total economic impact.
Quoting BobLoblaw (Reply 27):
This is a point other carriers should use in their argument against UA getting the slots. UA is stupid for not at least filing with a 757.

Again, UA does not need to make a case. The legacy carriers are simply transferring a slot of their choosing from an in-perimeter large hub destination to a beyond-perimeter domestic destination, no questions asked. The DOT does not have the opportunity to reject UA's plans.
 
Bobloblaw
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:42 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 28):
Bingo. UA wants to protect yields on IAD-SFO too. If UA floods the DCA-SFO market with seats (not that they really could), they'd probably only be hurting themselves.

Ok there is certainly truth to that point, but then UA should downguage an IAD flight to 738 or A320.
 
codc10
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:43 pm

Quoting BobLoblaw (Reply 27):
This is a point other carriers should use in their argument against UA getting the slots. UA is stupid for not at least filing with a 757.

You're missing the point. They already HAVE the slots, it's just a matter of UA filing for where it plans to use its allocation. There's no competition here, if they want it, they've got it.
 
Bobloblaw
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:45 pm

Quoting steex (Reply 29):
Again, UA does not need to make a case. The legacy carriers are simply transferring a slot of their choosing from an in-perimeter large hub destination to a beyond-perimeter domestic destination, no questions asked. The DOT does not have the opportunity to reject UA's plans.

ok, now I understand. But their timings and choice of aircraft are still poor.
 
September11
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Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:58 pm

I think this is really good for DCA and SFO
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codc10
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Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:06 pm

Quoting BobLoblaw (Reply 32):
timings and choice of aircraft are still poor.

Again, both choices are deliberate. I think we can rest assured that their decision took into account all the variables, including possible connections at SFO, the SFO-IAD market, aircraft rotations, and a great deal of proprietary data the public does not have access to in order to select the 73G as the best choice to launch the route at these specific times.
 
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kgaiflyer
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:00 am

Quoting BobLoblaw (Reply 30):
but then UA should downguage an IAD flight to 738 or A320.

Why??

UA flies out of IAD -- all day long and every day of the week -- with everything from 319s to 777s to SFO.

Out of IAD they don't really need to do anything?
 
laca773
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:13 am

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 28):

It will be a 737-700 to start off, and any 737-800s operating the route would likely be 737-800SFP ships, of which all are configured with 16F. Further, the midlav birds will be reconfigured to the standard 16F/48Y+/90Y later this year.

This is a good choice to start. If they find a need to upgauge to a 738, they have the a/c to do so. On some days, I bet the 73G will work best and on the busiest days, the 738 will work best.
 
FlyPIJets
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Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:40 am

seems like to me that p.s. service from DCA to SFO would be very profitable for UA.




especially if these flights are timed to the UA/SFO TRANSPAC. want the cheap seat - head out to IAD or take an earlier connecting flight. Want the good stuff? $$$, please.


[Edited 2012-02-28 16:49:32]
Rex Kramer: Get that finger out of your ear! You don't know where that finger's been!
 
codc10
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:52 am

Quoting FlyPIJets (Reply 37):
seems like to me that p.s. service from DCA to SFO would be very profitable for UA.

It will be more profitable with pax paying the same high prices (no competition) for a standard domestic product that is much cheaper to deliver than p.s.
 
FlyPIJets
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:14 am

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 38):
It will be more profitable with pax paying the same high prices (no competition) for a standard domestic product that is much cheaper to deliver than p.s.

ok, but, DCA - SFO timed to Asia should go pretty premium and a p.s. 757 has, what 38 premium seats vs. what 12-16 for a 73G, 319,320. There are other ways for premium traffic to get to Asia from DCA.
Rex Kramer: Get that finger out of your ear! You don't know where that finger's been!
 
olddominion727
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Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:17 am

What an awful aircraft to have on such a LONG route. I flew IAHSFO 3 nights ago, all seats full (as I presume this flight will be very popular too--being the only from the Bay Area) and my knees where in my chest the entire flight. We had me, my son, and another pax. None of us weighed more than 200lbs (though I am 6'3") we were crammed in like sardines!! why not a A319, 752, 753 (which could be too big) even the 738 (but that can be too small too). These new 737's coming out are the MOST uncomfortable SOB's in the sky!!
 
washingtonian
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:23 am

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 38):
It will be more profitable with pax paying the same high prices (no competition) for a standard domestic product that is much cheaper to deliver than p.s.
Quoting FlyPIJets (Reply 39):
ok, but, DCA - SFO timed to Asia should go pretty premium and a p.s. 757 has, what 38 premium seats vs. what 12-16 for a 73G, 319,320. There are other ways for premium traffic to get to Asia from DCA.

I understand both sides of this argument, not sure how I come down though. I bet that United wants to be super careful at first to ensure that IAD-SFO doesn't suffer (much). But ultimately if United is the only airline on DCA-SFO, I could see them trying PS someday if they are able to extract a significant premium for nonstop service to DCA. Time will tell.
 
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kgaiflyer
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UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:33 am

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 28):
Further, the midlav birds will be reconfigured to the standard 16F/48Y+/90Y later this year.

Just as well.

I was on a mid-lav 739 a couple weeks ago EWR-SAN. The mid-lav was so tiny that I had trouble even turning sideways to close the door.

There are at least two other lavs in the back. The mid-lavs can go and "good riddance"   
 
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kgaiflyer
Posts: 2565
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:22 am

UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:03 am

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 40):
What an awful aircraft to have on such a LONG route. I flew IAHSFO 3 nights ago, all seats full (as I presume this flight will be very popular too--being the only from the Bay Area) and my knees where in my chest the entire flight. We had me, my son, and another pax. None of us weighed more than 200lbs (though I am 6'3") we were crammed in like sardines!! why not a A319, 752, 753 (which could be too big) even the 738 (but that can be too small too). These new 737's coming out are the MOST uncomfortable SOB's in the sky!!

By the time this route is consummated, the 700 series 737s will no doubt have Y+ .

I do feel your pain as I've done EWR-SNA in the 700 series.

With Y+ there should be a lot less pain.
 
FlyPIJets
Posts: 825
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2003 3:32 am

UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:05 am

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 41):
I could see them trying PS someday if they are able to extract a significant premium for nonstop service to DCA. Time will tell.

I see both sides as well. And though I think a p.s. DCA-SFO is a no brainer....

1. I don't actually run an airline  

2. What are the special considerations of a single p.s. flight form a station? If you only have the single p.s. flight, what happens during an MX? Run everyone to ORD or EWR? (maybe not a bad back up)
Rex Kramer: Get that finger out of your ear! You don't know where that finger's been!
 
drerx7
Posts: 4204
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:18 am

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 40):
why not a A319, 752, 753 (which could be too big) even the 738 (but that can be too small too).

Which is why they notated they could use comparable narrowbody aircraft. My guess is 319/320/73G/738. I con't think the 753 can get out of DCA with a full load to SFO either, they'd go 752 before that any way.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:24 am

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 13):
8am leaving DCA is OK but out of SFO the time is ridiculous.

These times are perfect. They couldn't hgave done anything differently and I'm thrilled with the selection.

NS
 
codc10
Posts: 1750
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:25 am

Quoting FlyPIJets (Reply 39):
There are other ways for premium traffic to get to Asia from DCA.

There are, via IAD.

This isn't meant to be a high-volume route, but rather a one-off, niche service that drives a yield premium. There is no direct competition, which is why there will be no p.s. service. The p.s. product only exists because of the competitive nature of JFK-LAX/SFO and specifically AA, not because there is something unique about that market which would demand a different level of service in a vacuum (i.e. with no competition).
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:27 am

Either Virgin, or US, or both will fly DCA-SFO.

NS
 
washingtonian
Posts: 749
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:56 pm

UA To Start SFO-DCA-SFO Route

Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:32 am

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 47):
There is no direct competition, which is why there will be no p.s. service. The p.s. product only exists because of the competitive nature of JFK-LAX/SFO and specifically AA,

You think AA/UA would put mainline 2-class aircraft on these routes if there wasn't as much competition? None of us know, but it would be very interesting to see what kind of premium AA/UA get on these routes as opposed to other "normal" 2 class routes.

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