C010T3
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JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:36 am

TAM has applied before the Brazilian ANAC for an amendment in its hours of transportation at GRU for the MIA flights. Most important modification is the equipment, which changes from a 332 to a 77W effective October 5, 2012.
TAM is taking delivery of 4 777-300ER this year and it was unclear until now which route would be upgauged. The strongest rumour was JFK, but it seems that MIA came first.

JJ8090 daily 77W GRU 2355 MIA 0715+1
JJ8091 daily 77W MIA 2005 GRU 0520+1

JJ8094 daily 77W GRU 1030 MIA 1805
JJ8095 daily 77W MIA 1120 GRU 1935

Source: http://www2.anac.gov.br/hotran/
Application date: 28.02.2012
 
tonytifao
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:41 am

Finally a great aircraft on Brazil-US market for TAM! I would actually fly TAM now  
 
tcavanguard
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:01 am

Really? You would fly TAM now because of a 10 abreast 777 in Y and a 7 abreast J cabin? I'll pass, thanks!
 
OB1504
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:26 am

Nevertheless, it's great news that the route is performing strongly enough to merit a larger aircraft.
 
leftyboarder
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:00 am

Quoting C010T3 (Thread starter):
JJ8090 daily 77W GRU 2355 MIA 0715+1
JJ8091 daily 77W MIA 2005 GRU 0520+1

JJ8094 daily 77W GRU 1030 MIA 1805
JJ8095 daily 77W MIA 1120 GRU 1935

Great news for TAM and MIA.

Just a question, I understand that the aircraft that flies 8090 returns as JJ8095, and the one that does JJ8094 returns as JJ8091, right? What is the purpose of that? Why not number the flights so that same aircraft operates the same return flight?
 
jog
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:43 am

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 4):
Just a question, I understand that the aircraft that flies 8090 returns as JJ8095, and the one that does JJ8094 returns as JJ8091, right? What is the purpose of that? Why not number the flights so that same aircraft operates the same return flight?

History: In the past JJ flew once daily and parked the aircraft all day at MIA. So, JJ8090/8091 were the night flights in the past. One day they decided it is worth doing daylight flight instead of parking the aircraft all day and added JJ8094/8095. Passengers booked on 8090/8091 remained booked on the night flights by keeping the old flight numbers for the night flights.
 
leftyboarder
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:02 am

Quoting jog (Reply 5):
History: In the past JJ flew once daily and parked the aircraft all day at MIA. So, JJ8090/8091 were the night flights in the past. One day they decided it is worth doing daylight flight instead of parking the aircraft all day and added JJ8094/8095. Passengers booked on 8090/8091 remained booked on the night flights by keeping the old flight numbers for the night flights.

OK thanks, that makes sense  
 
C010T3
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:14 am

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 4):
Just a question, I understand that the aircraft that flies 8090 returns as JJ8095, and the one that does JJ8094 returns as JJ8091, right? What is the purpose of that? Why not number the flights so that same aircraft operates the same return flight?

It's that:

Quoting jog (Reply 5):
History

... and the fact that red-eye flights are generally preferred in Brazil. Passengers that are flying the red-eye will fly them on both directions.
 
jfk777
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:22 pm

This is the first regularly scheduled 777-300ER from Miami. Air France was going to be first but kept the 744 on their CDG -MIA route. When will AA fly a 77W from MIA ?
 
N62NA
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:41 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 8):
This is the first regularly scheduled 777-300ER from Miami. Air France was going to be first but kept the 744 on their CDG -MIA route.

Yes, it will be - very excited to see it here in MIA.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 8):
When will AA fly a 77W from MIA ?

Or, will AA fly the 77W from MIA?
 
jfk777
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:49 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 9):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 8):When will AA fly a 77W from MIA ?
Or, will AA fly the 77W from MIA?

Since AA flies to many 777 cities from MIA its almost a "certainty" AA will fly the 77W from MIA. The 77W could "consolidate" current 777 flights from MIA to GRU and EZE during the slow season.
 
tonytifao
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:24 pm

Quoting tcavanguard (Reply 2):
Really? You would fly TAM now because of a 10 abreast 777 in Y and a 7 abreast J cabin? I'll pass, thanks!

Didn't know it was 10 abreast in Y. Is the 77W a bit wider than the 772? All my 777 flights were on on AA772 or UA772 and once RG777. If not, it must be really cramped  
 
something
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:29 pm

Quoting tcavanguard (Reply 2):
Really? You would fly TAM now because of a 10 abreast 777 in Y and a 7 abreast J cabin? I'll pass, thanks!

My thoughts exactly, especially when the alternative would have been a nice A330. Besides, the 777 is the dullest looking airplane to ever be built. Imagine what a TAM 748 or an A380 in their colors would look like.   
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
C010T3
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:38 pm

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 11):
Is the 77W a bit wider than the 772?

No, just longer.
 
tonytifao
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:40 pm

On the 10 abreast vs 9 abreast (TAM vs AA for example), how thinner are the seats? Do they make the aisle thinner or the seats? Or combination?
 
OB1504
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:53 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 8):
This is the first regularly scheduled 777-300ER from Miami. Air France was going to be first but kept the 744 on their CDG -MIA route. When will AA fly a 77W from MIA ?

Didn't AF get around to flying the 77W a few times on the route? And the equipment change has to happen eventually, considering that the 744s will be leaving the fleet.
 
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rotating14
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:56 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 9):

One would have to assume that they would fly out of MIA. Id be safe to bet they would send at least 2 777-300ER's to MIA to do the GRU or the NRT route,as they have applied for more frequencies, GRU that is.
 
Tdan
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:38 pm

Just mind boggling how much capacity is increasing between the US and Brazil. Scary part is that it all appears to be sticking! I was trying to book IAH-GIG for this summer and it was $1,800RT! I wonder what is going to happen with open skies
We will ride this thunderbird, silver shadows on the earth, a thousand leagues away our land of birth... -Captain Bruce
 
PacificClipper
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:19 am

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 14):
On the 10 abreast vs 9 abreast (TAM vs AA for example), how thinner are the seats? Do they make the aisle thinner or the seats? Or combination?

9 abreast 777s (in whatever variant -200 or -300) use an 18 inch wide seat. 10 abreast Y configurations on a 777 use a 17 inch wide seat (which is also the standard seat width in Y on all 737, 747, 757 models) and a narrower aisle.
Fly Beautiful :: 747
 
FSDan
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:33 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 9):
Or, will AA fly the 77W from MIA?

Rumor has it MIA-NRT will be an early AA 77W route.

On a separate note, what is the mix of business/leisure traffic on the MIA-GRU route? I don't have any solid facts but I would imagine Miami has one of the largest populations Brazilians in the US, and I know it's also the economic "gateway" to Latin America from the US.
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jr
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:58 pm

Quoting PacificClipper (Reply 18):
9 abreast 777s (in whatever variant -200 or -300) use an 18 inch wide seat. 10 abreast Y configurations on a 777 use a 17 inch wide seat (which is also the standard seat width in Y on all 737, 747, 757 models) and a narrower aisle.

Aren't the arm rests packed a bit tighter in the 10 abreast configuration, making the available seat space less then just the 1 inch loss of seat width? I have flown on both the EK and AF 10 abreast configs, and both felt a lot worse than a 747 or 757 seat. Certainly wouldn't be my first pick. Especially on an ULH flight. Hope Delta and UA don't follow!
I've flown on 9V-SPK.
 
laca773
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:20 pm

Quoting FSDan (Reply 19):
Rumor has it MIA-NRT will be an early AA 77W route.

This seems like too much a/c to start. They'd be better off having JL start the service with a 787-8 and see how it does, then upgauge to a 77W if the demand is there.

This is great news for all those traveling to and from MIA-GRU. There's a lot of demand in this market. I bet we'll see AA upgauge one of the MIA-GRU flights to a 77W at some point.
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:37 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 3):
Nevertheless, it's great news that the route is performing strongly enough to merit a larger aircraft.

I suspect that the 77W 's significantly larger cargo capacity may have quite a lot to do with it.
 
tff
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:39 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 8):
This is the first regularly scheduled 777-300ER from Miami. Air France was going to be first but kept the 744 on their CDG -MIA route.

AF will fly the B77W daily to MIA from June 4th onwards.
Remove before flight
 
VC10er
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:26 pm

I have flown TAM many times from Brazil to Europe and the USA. While TAM has one of the single worst liveries and interior color scheme, at least it is off-set by how beautiful the 777 is and the 777-300 makes the most of the bad livery. But if it's a 777 or A330, it's still an angled lie flat in business. First Class is much better for sure, but bright red, olive green and tan is such an eye sore with a bad floral pattern on the seats to make it even more old fashioned! What ever happened to their new interior design? They had contracted a great UK industrial design agency.

As for economy, the VLA ac they have - I think economy is equally as tight as the Ponte Area. So tight it feels like an evacuation would be unsafe. I like TAM, admittedly I preferred the old days of VARIG, but is the seat pitch the same on the 777 or A330 as it is on an A320?

Still, there is a good vibe on board.
The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
 
MAH4546
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:15 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 21):
This seems like too much a/c to start. They'd be better off having JL start the service with a 787-8 and see how it does, then upgauge to a 77W if the demand is there.

The problem is more that the 788 is too low density - the 77W being too big is less of a problem - there is so much traffic between Tokyo and Brazil/Peri/Orlando, the plane will fill with ease.
a.
 
laca773
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:57 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 27):

The problem is more that the 788 is too low density - the 77W being too big is less of a problem - there is so much traffic between Tokyo and Brazil/Peri/Orlando, the plane will fill with ease.

Thanks for the information, Mark. This makes sense.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: JJ Upgauges GRU-MIA To 77W

Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:54 pm

Quoting C010T3 (Thread starter):
TAM has applied before the Brazilian ANAC for an amendment in its hours of transportation at GRU for the MIA flights

Thanks for sharing and that's confirms TAM focus in the USA during 2012.
Expected to see GRU-JFK also upgauged to 77W by November or December, GIG-JFK to become daily with potential 2x weekly daylights, GIG-MIA to be upgauged to A332, CNF-MIA and BSB-MIA to become daily with 763.
As outside of the USA, MEX can become redeye both ways, and GRU-BOG upgauged to 763 also.
Europe might see small changes, between GIG-CDG to return to daily or GIG-LHR to become 5x weekly.

All focusing, it seems, OW hubs, same way LA does.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 21):
This is great news for all those traveling to and from MIA-GRU. There's a lot of demand in this market. I bet we'll see AA upgauge one of the MIA-GRU flights to a 77W at some point.

AA still have the capacity to upgauge one flight from 763 to 772. But this is great during Dec-Jan and June-August, but a little too much during off-peak. But would make sense, on off-season to run just 2x daily 77W service on GRU-MIA.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 26):
I have flown TAM many times from Brazil to Europe and the USA. While TAM has one of the single worst liveries and interior color scheme, at least it is off-set by how beautiful the 777 is and the 777-300 makes the most of the bad livery. But if it's a 777 or A330, it's still an angled lie flat in business

Plans are for a new cabin by 2013. These 4 B77W they will got this year are the last on the current lay out. It seems they will adopt something like LAN product on Business, back to flat bed.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !