einsteinboricua
Topic Author
Posts: 5386
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

CM And Widebodies?

Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:35 am

It's clear to see that CM is a very successful airline, with its fleet consisting solely of 737s. However, I certainly don't think a 737 has the legs to fly PTY to Europe.

Considering that PTY's only European destinations are AMS with KL and MAD with IB, what are the chances that CM might add a couple of widebodies for TATL flights (not now, but perhaps before the end of the decade)? Madrid, London, and Paris would seem like the likely choices, perhaps even Barcelona.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
jfk777
Posts: 6145
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: CM And Widebodies?

Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:38 am

Copa probably has a future in 787's, they are small enough for 200 passengers yet capable enough to fly 8000 miles putting almost everything within nonstop reach.
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9605
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: CM And Widebodies?

Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:50 am

Copa already pushes the 737 farther than any other airline in a typical configuration. PTY-EZE/MVD is a very long trip and I would assume that they'd benefit from a smaller widebody for those routes on top of routes to Europe or more extensive US routes.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
User avatar
yellowtail
Posts: 3797
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:46 am

RE: CM And Widebodies?

Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:56 am

The are many closer routes that could use some wide body capacity for CM so that that 738 capacity could be deployed elsewhere....SDQ, HAV, CCS come to mind
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19304
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: CM And Widebodies?

Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:28 am

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 2):
Copa already pushes the 737 farther than any other airline in a typical configuration.

Some other 737NG nonstops are almost as far. FJ's HNL-NAN 738 nonstop is also entirely over water with fewer potential diversion points.

PTY-MVD 2941 nm (73G)
PTY-EZE 2879 nm (738)
NBO-BKO 2802 nm (Kenya Airways 738)
HNL-NAN 2748 nm (Air Pacific 738)
 
AR385
Posts: 6795
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: CM And Widebodies?

Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:57 am

At this point, I don´t think CM is interested in a very small fleet of a very different airliner to serve a few European destinations. Maybe in a few years, but not now. Besides, that small subfleet would require a total revamp of the services CM provides today, not so much in Y, maybe, but definitely in C. As for widebodies for MVD or EZE, I think their model is based on frequency, not on capacity.

A good analogy would for Southwest to get a few widebodies to fly to LHR or CDG. It´s just not their business model and probably won´t happen soon.
 
bpat777
Posts: 580
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 1999 8:21 am

RE: CM And Widebodies?

Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:17 am

I always felt CO/UA's 762's could be a good w/b for CM.
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 2546
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: CM And Widebodies?

Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:09 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
It's clear to see that CM is a very successful airline, with its fleet consisting solely of 737s.


False.
Both Copa Airlines and Copa Airlines Colombia also utilize a vast fleet of Embraer 190s.




.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
Considering that PTY's only European destinations are AMS with KL and MAD with IB


DE FRA-SDQ-PTY 1x weekly with 763 can also be considered as a regular operation linking Europe and Panama City.
It would be temporary upgraded from 1x to 2x weekly from June 25th till October 22nd.




.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
PTY-MVD 2941 nm (73G)


Probably the longest commercial route for a 737 nowadays.




.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
what are the chances that CM might add a couple of widebodies for TATL flights (not now, but perhaps before the end of the decade)? Madrid, London, and Paris would seem like the likely choices, perhaps even Barcelona.


Copa studied in 2007 the chance to launch flights to Europe but the idea hasn't been materialized.
Related link available in Spanish language:

http://mensual.prensa.com/mensual/co...007/01/21/hoy/negocios/866405.html

CM has firmly ordered a huge fleet consisting in 32 brand new 737s to be gradually delivered between 2015 and 2018.
However, the long-haul equipments haven't been mentioned yet.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
kiwiandrew

RE: CM And Widebodies?

Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:40 am

I recall reading an interview with the CEO of CM last year ( pretty sure it was in Flight International magazine) where he said that they currently have no intention of investing in widebodies and would rather attempt to persuade some of their future *A partners to commence longhaul services to PTY ( which, presumably, they would codeshare on) . I will try to find a link.
 
JQflightie
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:18 am

RE: CM And Widebodies?

Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:56 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):

add to the list:
DJ PER-HKT 2991mi
DJ SYD-DPS 2871mi
Next Trip: PER-DPS-KUL-BKK-HKT-CNX-BKK-SIN-PER
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16168
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: CM And Widebodies?

Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:06 am

For those interested, here are CM's net profit (loss) and net margin between 2007 and 2011 in USD and millions:


Net profit (loss):

2011: 310.40m

2010: 212.10m

2009: 240.36m

2008: 118.66m

2007 160.41m

Net margin

2011: 16.96 %

2010: 15.03 %

2009: 19.18 %

2008: 9.2 %

2007: 15.61 %

Source: Air Transport Intelligence (ATI).

Needless to say, these are, for airlines, highly impressive results.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 2546
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: CM And Widebodies?

Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:37 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 8):
they currently have no intention of investing in widebodies and would rather attempt to persuade some of their future *A partners to commence longhaul services to PTY


I agree.
We have previously commented into the Central American aviation thread about the possibility of LH FRA-PTY in the near future.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
nethkt
Posts: 1015
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2001 10:27 am

RE: CM And Widebodies?

Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:48 am

LH FRA-PTY with high-density A340-300?
I'd say the 8 First class seats on 333 and lower density 343 are a waste on FRA-PTY?
Would love to see a STAR long-haul, trans-con. connection from PTY!
Let's just blame it on yields.
 
User avatar
RWA380
Posts: 4687
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

RE: CM And Widebodies?

Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:22 pm

Quoting nethkt (Reply 12):
LH FRA-PTY with high-density A340-300?
I'd say the 8 First class seats on 333 and lower density 343 are a waste on FRA-PTY?
Would love to see a STAR long-haul, trans-con. connection from PTY!

I would think, a tag to PTY instead of a non-stop, or even a circle trip with another neighboring city they serve, or can, or else an en-route, not too far off the circle mapper for a stop. For any airline trying trans-atlantic to PTY, not just LH.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3/4, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777, DC-8-5/6/7, DC-9-1/3/5, MD-80/2/3/7/8, DC-10-10/30/40, MD-11, F-27, F-28, SWM, J31, D38, DH7, DH8, DH4 SD-330, B-146, L-1011-2/500, ATR-42/72, VCV, A-300/310/318/319/320, CR2/7

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos