kaitak
Topic Author
Posts: 9182
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

50 Years Ago Today - AAL 707 Crash, Idlewild

Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:45 pm

Just reading the latest Airways and read an interesting article about the crash of an American Airlines 707 this day in 1962.

A little after 10am, American 1 - operated by N7506A, already three years in service by then - took off from Runway 31 at Idlewild. Less than two minutes later, all 95 on board were dead. It had crashed 3mi SW of the airport, in an area called Pumpkin Patch Channel. The aircraft had crashed at a 78 degree angle.

The crew was unable to do anything to prevent a crash, which was determined by the CAB - forerunner of the NTSB - to have been caused by a rudder control system malfunction.
 
LVTMB
Posts: 294
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RE: 50 Years Ago Today - AAL 707 Crash, Idlewild

Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:54 pm

Wow! What a sad memory. Thank you for posting ...

Interesting enough, that servide still uses the same flight number to this date -- AAL 1. Normally, flight numbers involved in crashes are retired.

LVTMB
 
raffik
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Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:50 am

RE: 50 Years Ago Today - AAL 707 Crash, Idlewild

Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:55 pm

Very interesting, and sad. Weren't there some very important people on that flight? Hoipoloi of the day?
- Alec
 
kaitak
Topic Author
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RE: 50 Years Ago Today - AAL 707 Crash, Idlewild

Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:41 pm

Quoting LVTMB (Reply 1):
Very interesting, and sad. Weren't there some very important people on that flight? Hoipoloi of the day?

There were a few notables - a well known oilman (and close friend of former Pres. Eisenhower), a retired Admiral (also president of Long Island Univ.), a Hollywood movie producer and a hotel magnate.

Interestingly that day, there was supposed to be a parade in NY to welcome Astronaut (and later Senator) John Glenn back from his space trip.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: 50 Years Ago Today - AAL 707 Crash, Idlewild

Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:05 pm

Quoting raffik (Reply 2):
Weren't there some very important people on that flight?

I believe that there were 95 very important people on the flight, and no unimportant ones.
 
raffik
Posts: 1546
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:50 am

RE: 50 Years Ago Today - AAL 707 Crash, Idlewild

Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:35 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 4):
I believe that there were 95 very important people on the flight, and no unimportant ones

I meant well known. But I suspect you knew what I meant but were being facetious  
- Alec
 
jpyvr
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2000 10:00 am

RE: 50 Years Ago Today - AAL 707 Crash, Idlewild

Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:36 am

Quoting raffik (Reply 2):
Hoipoloi of the day?

Just a note from an English teacher to let you know that hoi polloi doesn't mean important people, or VIPs. In fact, it means the opposite - the common people, the masses.
 
redflyer
Posts: 3886
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

RE: 50 Years Ago Today - AAL 707 Crash, Idlewild

Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:49 am

Quoting LVTMB (Reply 1):
Interesting enough, that servide still uses the same flight number to this date -- AAL 1. Normally, flight numbers involved in crashes are retired.

Just a guess, but #1 is a very unique number so they might not have wanted to retire it.
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
jetstar
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RE: 50 Years Ago Today - AAL 707 Crash, Idlewild

Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:00 am

Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
Interestingly that day, there was supposed to be a parade in NY to welcome Astronaut (and later Senator) John Glenn back from his space trip.

There was a parade for John Glenn that day, I saw the parade from an office building my brother worked in.

I heard about the crash when I got home and turned on the evening news, sad way to end what was a great day.

JetStar
 
maxpower1954
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RE: 50 Years Ago Today - AAL 707 Crash, Idlewild

Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:38 am

Retiring a flight number after a fatal accident is a fairly recent development, around the mid-1980s or so. I can't think of any examples earlier than that, with the possible exception of AA 191 in 1979. For example, two fatal TWA flight 800 fatal accidents have occurred, the first in 1964 and of course 1996.
 
redflyer
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RE: 50 Years Ago Today - AAL 707 Crash, Idlewild

Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:18 am

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 9):
two fatal TWA flight 800

Thanks for the tip...I'll be sure to never board a flight #800, whatever the airline.  
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
maxpower1954
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RE: 50 Years Ago Today - AAL 707 Crash, Idlewild

Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:06 am

Flight 191 has a jinxed history.

1972 - Prinair 191 crashes, a De Havilland Heron. Five fatalities out of 19.

1979 AA 191 goes down, a DC-10 no surviviors.

1985 DL 191 a L-10ll Tristar, few survivors

and 2005 ? Comair RJ crashes on take off... again it's Flight 191 one survivor

Weird!
 
thegoldenargosy
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RE: 50 Years Ago Today - AAL 707 Crash, Idlewild

Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:05 am

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 11):
2005 ? Comair RJ crashes on take off... again it's Flight 191 one survivor

It was August 27, 2006, and the flight number was 5191. I believe it was an internal thing at Comair that the flight was referred to as 191. In all media reports it was Comair 5191.
 
TonyBurr
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RE: 50 Years Ago Today - AAL 707 Crash, Idlewild

Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:49 pm

Where was this flight headed?
 
Type-Rated
Posts: 3901
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 1999 5:18 am

RE: 50 Years Ago Today - AAL 707 Crash, Idlewild

Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:23 pm

The flight was headed to LAX. Notable victims included Linda Eastman's mother. Linda later became Paul McCartney's wife.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
LONGisland89
Posts: 546
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:34 am

RE: 50 Years Ago Today - AAL 707 Crash, Idlewild

Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:52 pm

It's interesting to note that AA lost three 707s between 1959 and 1962 around the NY/Long Island region. In 1959 a 707 on a training flight crashed near Calverton, NY. Then, in 1961 another 707 on a training flight crashed near Montauk Point. Then, there was this crash in 1962.
 
AR385
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RE: 50 Years Ago Today - AAL 707 Crash, Idlewild

Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:25 pm

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 11):
1985 DL 191 a L-10ll Tristar, few survivors

That flight number was not retired. My father flew it often, between 1986 and 1992 DFW-LAX. Maybe the FLL-DFW portion had a different number, but DL kept it on the next segment.
 
RobertS975
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RE: 50 Years Ago Today - AAL 707 Crash, Idlewild

Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:30 pm

I was a 10 year old living on Long island at the time. I believe the crash was the same day as John Glenn's ticker tape parade in NYC. Glenn's orbital flight was on Feb 20th.

The wreckage of that AA 707 was eventually stored on a vacant lot in Oceanside, NY. I recall clearly the many obvious parts of an airliner that were visible in that storage lot... vertical stabilizer, landing gear etc.
 
aa87
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:37 am

RE: 50 Years Ago Today - AAL 707 Crash, Idlewild

Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:14 pm

I was born in 1967, grew up on Long Island and became instantly hooked on flying on my first ride on an AA 707 JFK-PHX in 1975. Didn't know about this tragedy until after the string of 737 rudder accidents in the 80s-90s. I'm a huge Boeing fan, but having said that, I was amazed to learn there was a catastrophic rudder control accident like this, and then took a few more 20-30 years later before Boeing (hopefully) fixed it for good.
 
BOACCunard
Posts: 316
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:59 am

RE: 50 Years Ago Today - AAL 707 Crash, Idlewild

Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:20 pm

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 17):
The wreckage of that AA 707 was eventually stored on a vacant lot in Oceanside, NY. I recall clearly the many obvious parts of an airliner that were visible in that storage lot... vertical stabilizer, landing gear etc.
Weird. My mom and grandparents lived there at the time. I wonder if they knew about this. I'll have to ask.
Getting There is Half the Fun!
 
bralo20
Posts: 460
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 9:05 pm

RE: 50 Years Ago Today - AAL 707 Crash, Idlewild

Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:43 pm

Quoting kaitak (Thread starter):

The crew was unable to do anything to prevent a crash, which was determined by the CAB - forerunner of the NTSB - to have been caused by a rudder control system malfunction.

Didn't crash flight SN548 back in 1961 due similar causes? (the plane was a 707-329)
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19315
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: 50 Years Ago Today - AAL 707 Crash, Idlewild

Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:48 pm

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 12):
Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 11):
2005 ? Comair RJ crashes on take off... again it's Flight 191 one survivor

It was August 27, 2006, and the flight number was 5191. I believe it was an internal thing at Comair that the flight was referred to as 191. In all media reports it was Comair 5191.

I think it was 191 operationally (ATC etc. ) and 5191 for resevations/ticketing purposes.

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