Hawaiian763
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AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:06 pm

Just curious to know, now that Jazz is taking delivery of more Q400's, could we potentially start to see them come out west? If we start to see the Q400's out west in cities like YYC and YVR, what routes could they be deployed on?
 
heathrow
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:17 pm

I don't think it will happen any time soon. Out of YYC, I can maybe see YQU and YLW, possibly YYJ. I guess they may even want to cinsider it on YYC/YEG to YXE, YQR or even YWG. Everything else doesn't need the capacity of the Q400. I'd think we'll see more expansion in the East first.
 
connies4ever
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:28 pm

Quoting Hawaiian763 (Thread starter):
Just curious to know, now that Jazz is taking delivery of more Q400's, could we potentially start to see them come out west? If we start to see the Q400's out west in cities like YYC and YVR, what routes could they be deployed on?

Have Jazz exercised their options ? If so I missed it.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
WestJet747
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:51 pm

How many are they taking delivery of?

Possibly as a replacement for some of their DH8-100/300s? The oldest in the fleet is 26 years old.
Flying refined.
 
Whiteguy
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:22 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 3):
How many are they taking delivery of?

Possibly as a replacement for some of their DH8-100/300s? The oldest in the fleet is 26 years old.


15 being delivered with 15 options.

They are replacing CRJ100/200s.

Maybe with a possibility of Qs operating for WS you may see them out west sooner than planned.
 
ytz
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:25 pm

I wonder why Jazz even flies CRJs these days. Fuel prices must be killing them. I would think flying a Q400 is cheaper than a 50 seat CRJ. Or am I wrong?
 
connies4ever
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:36 pm

Quoting YTZ (Reply 5):
I wonder why Jazz even flies CRJs these days. Fuel prices must be killing them. I would think flying a Q400 is cheaper than a 50 seat CRJ. Or am I wrong?

Because the CPA with AC is quite favourable to Jazz.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
9252fly
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:33 am

Quoting Hawaiian763 (Thread starter):
Just curious to know, now that Jazz is taking delivery of more Q400's, could we potentially start to see them come out west?
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 2):
Have Jazz exercised their options ? If so I missed it.

My guess is that the options have already been exercised and it's just a matter of them announcing it.
 
YVRLTN
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:53 am

YVR to YXJ, YXS, YKA, YLW, SEA & PDX would all make perfect sense.
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
CRJ 900
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:05 am

From what we have been told at Jazz the first 15 stay in YYZ. Even though you will see them in YUL, only YYZ base is trained to operate the type. No options have been switched to confirmed orders. AC makes the decision which aircraft on which runs.
 
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yyz717
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:46 pm

Quoting heathrow (Reply 1):
I don't think it will happen any time soon. Out of YYC, I can maybe see YQU and YLW, possibly YYJ. I guess they may even want to cinsider it on YYC/YEG to YXE, YQR or even YWG.

Any YYC route with CRJ or Dash 8-300 is a candidate for the Q400.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 2):
Have Jazz exercised their options ? If so I missed it.

Not yet. 10 delivered, 5 to go. 15 options active.

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 4):
They are replacing CRJ100/200s.

Well that is what they stated. But Jazz is using them on alot of former Dash 8-100/300 routes.

Quoting CRJ 900 (Reply 9):
Even though you will see them in YUL

The AC Q400's in YUL are the SkyRegional to YTZ. Unless Jazz Q400 flies to YUL now, which I didnt think they did.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
chrisa330
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:53 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 10):
The AC Q400's in YUL are the SkyRegional to YTZ. Unless Jazz Q400 flies to YUL now, which I didnt think they did.

The Jazz Q400s do fly through YUL...just not YYZ-YUL. For example, they are flying YUL-YQM/YYG
 
Whiteguy
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:09 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 10):
Well that is what they stated. But Jazz is using them on alot of former Dash 8-100/300 routes.

CRJs are leaving or left the fleet and Q400s have been added. Doesn't matter what routes theyre using them on.

And they are being used on some former RJ routes.
 
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yyz717
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:21 pm

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 12):
Quoting yyz717 (Reply 10):
Well that is what they stated. But Jazz is using them on alot of former Dash 8-100/300 routes.

CRJs are leaving or left the fleet and Q400s have been added. Doesn't matter what routes theyre using them on.

Since the current 10 Q400's joined the fleet last spring, no CRJ's have left the fleet. The CRJ fleet has been at 48 active aircraft for over a year now.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
bmacleod
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:30 pm

As I understand it, the Q400's were specifically intended for AC's Express service from YTZ-YUL. Of course AC will probably expand their use as more arrive.
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
Whiteguy
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:34 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 13):
Since the current 10 Q400's joined the fleet last spring, no CRJ's have left the fleet. The CRJ fleet has been at 48 active aircraft for over a year now.

Since 2010 10 CRJs have left the fleet being parked or returned to lessor. There are another 5 or 6 scheduled to leave between Jan and April this year, some may be gone already. 1 CRJ was removed and transferred to the charter side of Jazz.

There are now either 11 or 12 Q400 in the fleet. Fin 412 was just delivered. Fin 409 is showing delivered or not delivered yet, depends where you look.
 
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yyz717
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:41 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 14):
As I understand it, the Q400's were specifically intended for AC's Express service from YTZ-YUL.

No. The YTZ-YUL operation is run by 5 used Q400's operated by SkyRegional.

The 10 (or so) Jazz Q400's are based at YYZ. The 2 fleets are not mixed although they look identical (other than small "operated by...." stickers).
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Whiteguy
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:47 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 14):
As I understand it, the Q400's were specifically intended for AC's Express service from YTZ-YUL. Of course AC will probably expand their use as more arrive.

The YTZ operation is separate from Jazz. They are operated by Sky Regional.
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:21 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 16):
The 10 (or so) Jazz Q400's are based at YYZ

Since were on the subject. Can anyone confirm all the AC and Jazz pilot bases per aircraft type.

Is the following correct?

A333 - YYZ, YVR
B763 - YUL, YYZ, YVR
B777 - YYZ, YVR, (YUL ?)
E170/190 - YUL, YYZ, YVR, (YYC ?)
A319/320/321 - YUL, YYZ, YYC, YVR

Jazz
Q400 - YYZ
CRJ1/2 - YUL, YYZ, YVR, YYC
CRJ9 - YYZ, YUL
Q100/300 - YUL, YYZ, YVR, YYC
B190 (Air Georgian) - YUL, YYZ

Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
Whiteguy
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:37 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 18):
Is the following correct?

A333 - YYZ, YVR
B763 - YUL, YYZ, YVR
B777 - YYZ, YVR, (YUL ?)
E170/190 - YUL, YYZ, YVR, (YYC ?)
A319/320/321 - YUL, YYZ, YYC, YVR

Jazz
Q400 - YYZ
CRJ1/2 - YUL, YYZ, YVR, YYC
CRJ9 - YYZ, YUL
Q100/300 - YUL, YYZ, YVR, YYC
B190 (Air Georgian) - YUL, YYZ

For AC there is no pilot base for any aircraft in YYC.

There is a YWG base for A320 pilot group.

For Jazz the CRJs are all in one group and the bases are YYC, YVR, YUL, and YYZ.

Jazz also has a YHZ base. Not sure which aircraft. I think both.

YYZ is also a bases for the B757 pilots. An aircraft is based in YVR this winter, not sure if they're YYZ based or YVR pilots.

Air Georgian also has a YYC base now since taking over the CMA flying in the fall.
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:28 pm

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 19):
For AC there is no pilot base for any aircraft in YYC.

Jeez. Considering the substantial amount of ops AC has at YYC, that's a surprise. The E jets and the A320 family should have a base at YYC.

Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
9252fly
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:34 pm

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 8):
YVR to YXJ, YXS, YKA, YLW, SEA & PDX would all make perfect sense.

Those too would be my choice's adding YYC and YEG to YLW YKA YQU YMM YXE YQR, YWG to YXE YQR YQT and lastly YYJ to YYC.
 
RJLover
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:40 am

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 2):
Have Jazz exercised their options ? If so I missed it.

Nope, not yet.

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 15):
Fin 409 is showing delivered or not delivered yet, depends where you look.

It has NOT been delivered. FIN's 401-408 + 410-412 have been delivered so far. FIN 412 arrived in YYZ at 1425L/01MAR and is under going our fleet modifications.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 18):
Jazz
Q400 - YYZ
CRJ1/2 - YUL, YYZ, YVR, YYC
CRJ9 - YYZ, YUL
Q100/300 - YUL, YYZ, YVR, YYC
B190 (Air Georgian) - YUL, YYZ

Our bases break down as follows...

FA's

DH1/3: YVR, YYC, YYZ, YUL, YHZ
CRJ/CRA: YVR, YYC, YYZ, YUL, YHZ
DH4: YYZ, YUL
757: YVR, YYZ, YUL, YHZ

Pilots

DH1/3: YVR, YYC, YYZ, YUL YHZ
CRJ/CRA: YVR, YYC, YYZ, YUL
DH4: YYZ
757: YVR, YYZ, YUL

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 19):
Air Georgian also has a YYC base now since taking over the CMA flying in the fall.

Georgian has pilots based in: YYC, YYZ, YUL, YHZ
Last Flight(s): YHZ-YYZ//YYZ-YHZ Next Flight(s): YHZ-YHM//YHM-YUL-YHZ
 
Whiteguy
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:21 am

Quoting RJLover (Reply 22):
It has NOT been delivered. FIN's 401-408 + 410-412 have been delivered so far. FIN 412 arrived in YYZ at 1425L/01MAR and is under going our fleet modifications.

Thanks for the info. I didn't think it was delivered yet. Any reason why? Is it involved in testing or something?
 
multimark
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:29 am

Did Jazz (Chorus) buy/lease the planes, or did AC?
 
CRJ 900
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:54 am

Jazz owns them, well I should say Chorus owns them and they lease them to Jazz. division. The 15 options are Jazz's as well.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:34 pm

Quoting YTZ (Reply 5):
I would think flying a Q400 is cheaper than a 50 seat CRJ. Or am I wrong?

My understanding is the block hour costs are nearly equal but you get 20 more seats on the DH4 so CASM is much lower on the DH4.
 
9252fly
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:50 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 26):
My understanding is the block hour costs are nearly equal but you get 20 more seats on the DH4 so CASM is much lower on the DH4.

I believe that Jazz has their DH4 configured with 74 seats,that suggests a 1/3 or 33% fuel savings per seat. With that in mind,I can see how it would be tempting from a bean counters perspective.
 
heathrow
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:48 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 10):
Any YYC route with CRJ or Dash 8-300 is a candidate for the Q400.

This is an increase of 24 seats which is really not needed on a lot of these routes. I understand the aircraft can do the same job, but it's better suited elsewhere right now.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 8):
YVR to YXJ, YXS, YKA, YLW, SEA & PDX would all make perfect sense.

YXJ traffic relly doesn't need the Q400. They get a DH1 from BH every day and a Dornier 328 from YEG I believe. Let alone the AC (CRJ is it?) flight. YXS is served nicely by WS and I think with the competition on the route, it can also survive with CRJ's and DH1's and DH3's for years to come. The same goes for YKA.

YLW has a surprising amount of traffic going to it, especially with WS around, and I think AC would benefit from having a Q400 on this route from both YYC and YVR. SEA and PDX obviously make sense, although that's the exact same aircraft QX is using on this route right now.

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 21):
Those too would be my choice's adding YYC and YEG to YLW YKA YQU YMM YXE YQR, YWG to YXE YQR YQT and lastly YYJ to YYC.

YQU would be good for a couple flights at busy times, but mostly, the frequency is needed over capacity, and it was rarely packed for me (unless it was rush hour!)

YYC YYJ will benefit from the speed of the CRJ, although I would like to dream that maybe one day, it will go mainline with an E75. Oh well, it's not like I'll ever fly Air Canada again anyway!
 
9252fly
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:38 pm

Quoting heathrow (Reply 28):
This is an increase of 24 seats which is really not needed on a lot of these routes.

That may be true,but the market keeps evolving and AC has to keep an eye on the competition. If WS selects the DH4 for their upcoming regional carrier,then the game changes. Looking at what's been happening in the eastern domestic markets with PD,it should be no surprise to see AC utilizing the DH4 in the west. I foresee AC having to reduce some frequencies and eventually go head-to-head,DH4 for DH4;brings back memories of how AC and CP scheduled their regional affiliates.
 
ANM604
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:41 pm

Quoting heathrow (Reply 28):
YLW has a surprising amount of traffic going to it, especially with WS around, and I think AC would benefit from having a Q400 on this route from both YYC and YVR. SEA and PDX obviously make sense, although that's the exact same aircraft QX is using on this route right now.

Agreed. I'd love to see AC/Jazz increase their flying out of YLW, one of the fastest growing areas in BC. Tons of potential for some increases in capacity offered by the Q's. I would think Jazz will be exercising their 15 options pretty quickly.
 
YVRLTN
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:36 pm

Quoting heathrow (Reply 28):
can also survive with CRJ's

YXJ is all CRJ, but see this

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 27):
My understanding is the block hour costs are nearly equal but you get 20 more seats on the DH4 so CASM is much lower on the DH4.

I believe that Jazz has their DH4 configured with 74 seats,that suggests a 1/3 or 33% fuel savings per seat

Same operating cost with extra chance for revenue. Why wouldnt you?

Quoting heathrow (Reply 28):
YXS is served nicely by WS and I think with the competition on the route

All the more reason to get something nicer on the route, a nice new WS 737 or a Dash 8 from 25 years ago?

Quoting heathrow (Reply 28):
SEA and PDX obviously make sense, although that's the exact same aircraft QX is using on this route right now.

I know which one I would choose right now.

Quoting heathrow (Reply 28):
YLW has a surprising amount of traffic going to it,

AC upgrade to an E190 on a regular basis, even a A320 in the summer.
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
Viscount724
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:47 pm

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 31):
Quoting heathrow (Reply 28):
YLW has a surprising amount of traffic going to it,

AC upgrade to an E190 on a regular basis, even a A320 in the summer.

As a sidenote, in the 2011 Canadian census results issued a couple of weeks ago, Kelowna was Canada's 4th fastest-growing metropolitan area between the last census in 2006 and 2011, with a population increase of 10.8%, following only Calgary (12.6%), Edmonton (12.1%) and Saskatoon (11.4%).
 
RJLover
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:14 am

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 23):
Thanks for the info. I didn't think it was delivered yet. Any reason why? Is it involved in testing or something?

I *heard* some part of the structure had to be rebuilt (or something like that) and that changed the lineup, but I have no idea if that is the truth or not.

Quoting heathrow (Reply 28):
although I would like to dream that maybe one day, it will go mainline with an E75

You won't see YYC-YYJ go mainline on the E75 until YYC starts seeing the E75 (on a regular basis). From what I've heard, YYC doesn't see the E75 because of the way the engines have been derated limits preformance over the Rockies. Longhauler would probably know more about that!

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 31):
AC upgrade to an E190 on a regular basis, even a A320 in the summer.

YLW sees two E90's a day from YVR until 30APR (at which point YVR-YLW reverts to all QK flying). The reason is very simple... skis! It is very tough to load a bunch of skis on a Dash 8 or CRJ! The additonal capacity of the E90 is just icing on the cake.
Last Flight(s): YHZ-YYZ//YYZ-YHZ Next Flight(s): YHZ-YHM//YHM-YUL-YHZ
 
ANM604
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:00 am

Quoting RJLover (Reply 33):
You won't see YYC-YYJ go mainline on the E75 until YYC starts seeing the E75 (on a regular basis). From what I've heard, YYC doesn't see the E75 because of the way the engines have been derated limits preformance over the Rockies

I have also heard this as well.

Quoting RJLover (Reply 33):
YLW sees two E90's a day from YVR until 30APR (at which point YVR-YLW reverts to all QK flying). The reason is very simple... skis! It is very tough to load a bunch of skis on a Dash 8 or CRJ! The additonal capacity of the E90 is just icing on the cake.

It's a shame they revert back to QK, I think AC should be increasing their footprint there. Especially with WS's impending regional start-up.
 
9252fly
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:23 am

Quoting ANM604 (Reply 34):
It's a shame they revert back to QK, I think AC should be increasing their footprint there.

The impression I get is that AC is chasing yield not volume in a lot of markets,hence the utilization of QK to provide the frequency that appeals to that type of clientele without excess capacity. As much as some think QK is richly rewarded under the CPA,don't forget it's a creation of AC and an evolution. The CPA agreement runs until the 31st of December 2020 and is subject to modifications along the way;likely not to QK benefit.
 
ANM604
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Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:32 am

RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:42 am

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 35):

I would think there is some good yields flying into YLW, lots of tourists headed to Big White and others. And certainly during the summers as well, there seems to be a growing number of people buying vacation homes in the surrounding areas. Lots of big money developments underway as well. I guess AC is in a tough position, as the smallest plane they can use is the 190, which might erase some of the frequencies they offer compared to the RJ. I think the Q would fit nicely on runs up to Kelowna, and would also be able to maintain some frequencies as well. I'm quite surprised to see the CPA runs until 2021, as I didn't think AC would want to commit to such a long period. I can definitely see some of it being renegotiated, and fairly quickly at that.
 
connies4ever
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:49 am

Quoting RJLover (Reply 33):
You won't see YYC-YYJ go mainline on the E75 until YYC starts seeing the E75 (on a regular basis). From what I've heard, YYC doesn't see the E75 because of the way the engines have been derated limits preformance over the Rockies. Longhauler would probably know more about that!

I believe that's correct, the single engine driftdown rate over the Rockies is the reason the 175s don't go further than YYC. In fact, I'm not even sure they go further west than YWG. Most of the time I fly YOW-YWG I'm on a 175.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
9252fly
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:22 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 37):
In fact, I'm not even sure they go further west than YWG

They are often scheduled out of YXE / YQR to YOW / YYZ. I had seen one once in YYC but that was a rarity and most likely due to a swap and lack of other available aircraft types.
 
Hawaiian763
Topic Author
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:04 pm

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 19):
Air Georgian also has a YYC base now since taking over the CMA flying in the fall.

Anyone know the reason why Air Georgian took over some of the regional flights out of YYC from CMA?
 
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longhauler
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:05 pm

Quoting RJLover (Reply 33):
You won't see YYC-YYJ go mainline on the E75 until YYC starts seeing the E75 (on a regular basis). From what I've heard, YYC doesn't see the E75 because of the way the engines have been derated limits preformance over the Rockies. Longhauler would probably know more about that!

The airplane can do it, but there are restrictions.

AC with the Lido flight planning system requires 2000' above the highest obstacle, (Transport Canada only requires 1000'). On some airways, during some density altitude conditions, at some weights, the 2000' clearance would not be guaranteed.

The way around it would be to restrict to E175 to certain airways only, with the proviso of not going "direct" off of the airway. Then, with an engine failure, certain "escape routes" had to be devised. This is not new to AC, as they did it when the A319 flew to BOG, and had special engine failure procedures engineered for the E190 out of YLW ... but in this case, it was decided in the name of simplicity, to simply restrict the aircraft to not flying west of YYC/YEG.

Currently, it is only scheduled as far west as YXE, (YYZ-YXE), with YYC and YEG allowed as an alternate if required.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
cyeg66
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:41 pm

^ And yet CRJ's fly around like mosquitoes b/w YYC/YEG and any points west. Bizarre that the E175/190 have to have special operating procedures in the engine out scenario. Is AC just padding their engine out safety procedures more than TC requires, whereas QK doesn't? I don't see the CRJ as the pinnacle of power when it comes to jet performance...   
slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
 
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longhauler
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:59 pm

Quoting cyeg66 (Reply 41):
Bizarre that the E175/190 have to have special operating procedures in the engine out scenario.

Not the E190, just the E175. Remember that the E170/175 share a wing, so the E175 is a little "underwinged", while the E190/195 share a wing, so the E190 is "overwinged".

Quoting cyeg66 (Reply 41):
Is AC just padding their engine out safety procedures more than TC requires, whereas QK doesn't?

I am not familiar with QKs procedures, but AC is always putting extra safety margins were other airlines don't.

Just for trivia, this goes back to the 1940s, when TCA did not fly the DC-3 over the Rockies, but did fly the Lockheed Lodestar, as its single engine performance was better.
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threepoint
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:08 pm

Quoting ANM604 (Reply 36):
I would think there is some good yields flying into YLW, lots of tourists headed to Big White and others. And certainly during the summers as well, there seems to be a growing number of people buying vacation homes in the surrounding areas. Lots of big money developments underway as well.

Kelowna is not a high-yield market, despite its rapid growth. Not sure when you last visited, but many of those "big money developments" are in varying stages of financial health. It is a high load market, sure, with lots of VFR travelers, including the skiers you mention. They frequently take the cheapest flight, and with WS matching AC service between Kelowna and YVR, YYC and YEG & YYJ whereas AC/Jazz do not, the prices are often competitive (ie: not high yield at all).

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 31):

AC upgrade to an E190 on a regular basis, even a A320 in the summer.

They have used the 320 in the summer (once resulting in a mistaken yet entertaining visual approach into Vernon in 2003 that spurred changes in the SOPs for AC flights into YLW), but in general, the upguage occurs in the wintertime to accomodate, as RJLover mentioned, the ski & snowboard cargo. The 190 is generally restricted to the [Edited 2012-03-05 11:09:44]

[Edited 2012-03-05 11:10:25]
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Whiteguy
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:15 am

Quoting Hawaiian763 (Reply 39):
Quoting whiteguy (Reply 19):
Air Georgian also has a YYC base now since taking over the CMA flying in the fall.

Anyone know the reason why Air Georgian took over some of the regional flights out of YYC from CMA?

CMA let the work go. More money in the charter side these days!
 
heathrow
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:30 pm

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 29):
Looking at what's been happening in the eastern domestic markets with PD,it should be no surprise to see AC utilizing the DH4 in the west



I fly PD about every other weekend, and it truly is an amazing product. This cannot be expected from AC and certainly not QK. The Q would give them great opportunities in the West though, that's for sure. I have always been curious at the possibility for a PD like airline flying between YYC YVR YEG and maybe YYJ and YQU hops. Probably wouldn't be as successful as PD, but the market is there.

Quoting ANM604 (Reply 30):
YLW, one of the fastest growing areas in BC. Tons of potential for some increases in capacity offered by the Q's



   and glad to hear it!

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 31):
Same operating cost with extra chance for revenue. Why wouldn't you?
Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 31):
All the more reason to get something nicer on the route, a nice new WS 737 or a Dash 8 from 25 years ago?



Personally, I don't really care about the age of an aircraft. I'd take a 707 over a 777 any day, and certainly a 732 over a 73G. I would think it would be cheaper to keep an aircraft that's already in the fleet (such as the DH1's and DH3's), I'm not sure if they own them or if they're on lease, than it would be to introduce a new fleet type in to a base when money is a big issue right now. There's nothing wrong with QK's DH1's and DH3's, they're just well travelled   

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 31):
I know which one I would choose right now.



I would choose QX over QK any day, regardless of aircraft. I'd fly anyone over QK or AC again though   

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 31):
AC upgrade to an E190 on a regular basis, even a A320 in the summer.



I've sold some flights to YLW on these and it is great to see. Also nice to see the E90 in YXY seasonally! There's a lot of possibility out west, unfortunately I don't think it's full potential will be reached in the hands of AC. It will be very interesting when WS gets their smaller aircraft
 
cyeg66
Posts: 178
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:59 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 42):
Not the E190, just the E175. Remember that the E170/175 share a wing, so the E175 is a little "underwinged", while the E190/195 share a wing, so the E190 is "overwinged".

I was referring to your specific comment about E190's needing special ops around YLW. Aware of the major differences between E170/5 and E190/5's. Still amazed that anemic RJ's fly unrestricted around this country. May as well permit A343's to fly in and out of there (YLW), hyperbole intended!
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longhauler
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:38 pm

Quoting cyeg66 (Reply 46):

I was referring to your specific comment about E190's needing special ops around YLW.

Again I am not familiar with procedures of other airlines. When the E190 first flew into YLW, a special procedure was engineered in the case of an engine failure on take-off. All Captains flying into YLW had to adequately perform this procedure in the simulator before operating in there.

I understand, that the procedure has since been amended, and it quite a bit less cumbersome.

Quoting cyeg66 (Reply 46):
Still amazed that anemic RJ's fly unrestricted around this country.

Do they? Are there no restrictions for RJs in the event of an engine failure on take-off?

Quoting cyeg66 (Reply 46):
May as well permit A343's to fly in and out of there (YLW), hyperbole intended!

I would guess, with 4 engines, the A340 would have fewer restrictions than the E190.
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ANM604
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RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:57 pm

Quoting threepoint (Reply 43):
Kelowna is not a high-yield market, despite its rapid growth. Not sure when you last visited, but many of those "big money developments" are in varying stages of financial health. It is a high load market, sure, with lots of VFR travelers, including the skiers you mention. They frequently take the cheapest flight, and with WS matching AC service between Kelowna and YVR,

There may not be the same amount of money in Kelowna as in YVR, but don't kid yourself, there are a lot of people that either live there, or vacation there with serious amounts of money. I know numerous people who have vacation homes up there that rent them out for several thousand a week to visitors coming in from US, Europe etc. I agree the majority of travelers are likely just seeking the cheapest flight, but there is no reason AC shouldn't be able to fill J class on every flight, even on a E190.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 40):
The airplane can do it, but there are restrictions.

Aren't all of the 170's tied up running out East anyways? Even if they wanted to take them out west, seems like they like the plane out East.
 
YYCFlyer
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:30 am

RE: AC Jazz Q400's To The West?

Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:28 am

Quoting RJLover (Reply 22):

Our bases break down as follows...

FA's

DH1/3: YVR, YYC, YYZ, YUL, YHZ
CRJ/CRA: YVR, YYC, YYZ, YUL, YHZ
DH4: YYZ, YUL
757: YVR, YYZ, YUL, YHZ

I was talking with a Jazz Flight Attendant this week and she said that the YVR base was about to start training for the DH4?
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