AG2006
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DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:36 am

DEN is about to begin a $500 million expansion. Project elements include a new train station (30 min travel time to downtown denver, service every 15 min), a plaza and a 500 room Westin hotel. Completion scheduled for 2015.

Santiago Calatrava was previously attached to this project. This was the original design, when Calatrava was the architect and the budget was $650 million. There was also to have been a signature rail bridge, but this element was cut.

Big version: Width: 1800 Height: 1012 File size: 194kb


These are the latest renderings from Gensler via DenverInfill.com (more available there).









More images here: http://denverinfill.com/blog/2012/02...ort-terminal-expansion-update.html



This will be the train. It is an electric multiple unit train made by Hyundai like those coming into service in Philadelphia.



The line in blue is the airport route. DIA is what locals call DEN.

Big version: Width: 860 Height: 315 File size: 36kb


[Edited 2012-03-04 00:58:56]
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:51 am

Thanks for the update i hadnt seen those photos before. Its about time. Denver needs a real train. The light rail system is good for short distances but not for as long a distance as the airport.

The on airport hotel was needed on day one. The biggest flaw in my mind in the airport was the long distances to hotels. The airport hotels are such a long shuttle ride and annoying far away. This will be so nice to people who miss connections and have to overnight until the next morning. With three hubs there are so many people who get stuck in Denver on a daily basis.
 
johns624
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:10 pm

They have to make sure that they don't run into any of the secret subterranean rooms when they drive the pilings for the expansion.  
 
CMHSRQ
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:28 pm

It would be nice if they could tie the new train connections to the rental car lot and the Tower road hotels.
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hi_flyer
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:47 pm

Does the train shed look a little short to anyone else? Given DEN's climate, I would think they'd put the whole length of the train under cover so that people don't have to go trudging through the snow.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:42 pm

Quoting AG2006 (Thread starter):
DEN is about to begin a $500 million expansion. Project elements include a new train station (30 min travel time to downtown denver, service every 15 min), a plaza and a 500 room Westin hotel. Completion scheduled for 2015.

Santiago Calatrava was previously attached to this project. This was the original design, when Calatrava was the architect and the budget was $650 million. There was also to have been a signature rail bridge, but this element was cut.

So did the project actually cut $150 million out of the budget after parting ways with Calatrava? That sounds about right for the cost inflation attached with a Calatrava project.
 
Dldiamondboy
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:06 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 1):

There a lots of nice hotels 10 minutes down Pena Blvd in Aurora. Have stayed at them many times.
 
point2point
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:04 pm

When this was announced a few weeks ago, one of the agreements between DEN and Calatrava was that...

DIA was allowed to keep the architect's basic plan but not those touches that define his work. Calatrava has built his worldwide reputation on a pointed, swanlike elegance and his trademark color of white.

The new design, as amended by two firms, Gensler and Anderson Mason Dale Architects, is dominated by clear glass rather than white steel.



http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_19763379

... and now, hello...... the bright, striking white is the color of the teflon roof and most of the other elements of the Jeppesen Terminal as well. And with that, it will be very difficult (in my personal opinion) to have the clear glass of the expansion phase harmonize with the bright white coloring of the Jeppesen Terminal. And how cleverly the visualization pictures of this are mostly shown at night, with blue lighting filling the whole project and making it look coordinated, or during the day with a snowstorm, where everything is white anyway, and it looks coordinated. And now on a normal day, I have a feeling that this whole thing is going to be looking quite disjointed with the clear glass instead of the Calatrava "trademark color of white" and by agreeing to not use "white" the DEN officials made a big mistake here. But that's just my   

Quoting johns624 (Reply 2):
They have to make sure that they don't run into any of the secret subterranean rooms when they drive the pilings for the expansion.

I think that the whole of the New World Order is just going to pack it up and leave here once they get a glimpse of the finished product.

And with that, here is a visual from Westword on the final product.....

Courtesy: Westword



and not really wanting to be the Debbie Downer here, but..... oy vey........

  

[Edited 2012-03-04 13:12:27]
 
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:26 pm

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 5):
Santiago Calatrava was previously attached to this project. This was the original design, when Calatrava was the architect and the budget was $650 million. There was also to have been a signature rail bridge, but this element was cut.

without calatrava This project looses all of its hype. This is a great architect that would have built a marvel like T5 is at JFK, too bad that it is way more important to cut costs than to do something great. that is actually one of the worlds worst problems, they choose price over quality, and then quality becomes an overpriced product only viable for some   too bad we will not see this great building
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rampart
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:14 am

Quoting totesen (Reply 8):
without calatrava This project looses all of its hype. This is a great architect that would have built a marvel like T5 is at JFK, too bad that it is way more important to cut costs than to do something great. that is actually one of the worlds worst problems, they choose price over quality, and then quality becomes an overpriced product only viable for some too bad we will not see this great building

T5 isn't that marvelous, the new one. Are you talking about the new one? The Saarinen one is, of course, a 20th Century icon of architecture. The point in that redesign was to NOT mask the historic terminal.

I've mentioned this previously, but the Calatrava design was a complete insult to the excellent iconic image that the Jeppenson Terminal has. It was an archtitect rock-star's conceit to mask the terminal behind it, so that his design took precedence. I hated it. The redesign does little to help, it still masks the approach, though the clear glass is somewhat less masking. One can still see the peaked tents from the aircraft, or from the looping road approaching the arrivals or departures (and not the parking garage).

It's an airport, dammit, not a train station or Hyatt Hotel. Keep it that way.

-Rampart
 
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mariner
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:30 am

Quoting rampart (Reply 9):
It's an airport, dammit, not a train station or Hyatt Hotel. Keep it that way.

Why can't it be all those things?

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rampart
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:11 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 10):
Why can't it be all those things?

It can, of course, and most major airports are. I'm just not happy with the grandiose design for the hotel and train station, particularly if it takes away from the design of the main reason for being, the airport side. That's just one grumpy guy's opinion, however.

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AG2006
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:30 am

Click on the renderings to see bigger images. Here are more renderings from Gensler (requires Adobe Flash):

http://www.gensler.com/#aboutus/news/pressreleases/112

This is from the press release (same link):

HOTEL AND CONFERENCE CENTER
The 500-key Westin hotel and conference center is a swooping form in glass and steel. The hotel design references and compliments the iconic form of the existing Jeppesen Terminal beyond. The saddle at the center of the hotel was designed to maintain sight lines to the terminal’s signature peaked roof. The hotel, which will have 14 floors, will include more than 500 guest rooms, a grand lobby with views to the mountains and runways, and a conference center for meetings, banquets, conventions and trade shows. The hotel will also include a full-service restaurant, full gym and indoor pool uniquely situated in the saddle of the building to maximize views.

PUBLIC TRANSIT CENTER
Open-air on its sides with a glass sheath above, the Public Transit Center services the new RTD East Rail Line connection to and from downtown Denver. That transparency allows the hall to be infused with natural light and with views out to the Denver landscape. Departing from the train, passengers can ride escalators either directly to Jeppesen Terminal or to Level 4 to potentially access added passenger and baggage check-in kiosks, as well as pass through a new prospective security checkpoint. The existing concourse passenger train and airport baggage systems will also be extended underneath the Public Transit Center, increasing operational capacity for both systems.

PUBLIC PLAZA
Elliptical in shape and connecting the new hotel and Public Transit Center to the existing Jeppesen Terminal, the 60,000-square-foot plaza will be a “place of energy” where passengers and visitors can find repose, entertainment and other non-airport functions. The glass and steel canopy from the Public Transit Center will extend towards Jeppesen Terminal providing both covered and uncovered areas for meeting and greeting, shopping, dining, and attending special events and attractions.

The hotel is scheduled to open in 2015, and the RTD East Rail Line will open in early 2016.

[Edited 2012-03-04 18:35:26]

[Edited 2012-03-04 18:38:19]
 
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:43 am

Quoting rampart (Reply 11):
It can, of course, and most major airports are. I'm just not happy with the grandiose design for the hotel and train station, particularly if it takes away from the design of the main reason for being, the airport side.

I think there should be a hotel and I think there should be a train station and it becomes a functioning traveller's center rather than just an airport. The train station seems remarkably unobtrusive - to me - so I guess you mean the "wings" that are the hotel. I think they're fairly graceful and I guess any design for any hotel higher than two floors might impede the view of the terminal from at least one direction - unless it was all underground.

I hated I M Pei's glass pyramid at the Louvre - until I saw the real thing and then I was in awe of it. But each to their own, always.  

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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:45 am

I rather like the hotel integrated into the airport. The issue is the guests start closing curtains and such and that will change the look from the outside...  
Quoting johns624 (Reply 2):

They have to make sure that they don't run into any of the secret subterranean rooms when they drive the pilings for the expansion.

This design looks like it could be adding rooms.  

I do wish this design fit in better with the rest of the airport. Oh well. At least the 'flying wing' hotel looks like it belongs at an airport.

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DfwRevolution
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:03 am

Quoting totesen (Reply 8):
without calatrava This project looses all of its hype. This is a great architect that would have built a marvel like T5 is at JFK, too bad that it is way more important to cut costs than to do something great. that is actually one of the worlds worst problems, they choose price over quality, and then quality becomes an overpriced product only viable for some too bad we will not see this great building

Let me count the ridiculous statements.

1. "Hype" is somehow an ingredient for success
2. The only way to develop a visually-appealing structure is to hire a "rock star" architect known for adding huge price premiums to projects
3. That cost shouldn't be one of the primary factors for a public works project.
4. That when cost is occasionally considered important, it ranks as one of the world's "worst problems"

Sorry, I would rather live in the real world. Design something functional and stylish, but do it for a reasonable price and do it on schedule. There's plenty of tastefully-built airports where the local government didn't build some palatial monstrosity to impress comers and goers.
 
gigneil
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:20 am

I'm sorry, Calatravia cookie cutters his "signature design" on every damn project. Its not original or unique, and honestly, its ugly.

The new design looks fine and cost a LOT less.

NS
 
point2point
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:20 am

Quoting rampart (Reply 9):
I've mentioned this previously, but the Calatrava design was a complete insult to the excellent iconic image that the Jeppenson Terminal has.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):
I do wish this design fit in better with the rest of the airport.

I managed to find an illustration of where the hotel was "supposed" to go when the first of the airport plans were available....




...... and of course, here, the hotel is much plainer and simpler, and is near the Jeppesen Terminal, but not in the way of the terminal, so the virtue of the Jeppesen is preserved here.

The overwhelming factor with the Calatrava design is that it was all in white..... and I think that it had a much better chance of enhancing the the better aspects of the Jeppesen Terminal. Now...... with it being clear glass......??



Quoting AG2006 (Reply 12):
Click on the renderings to see bigger images. Here are more renderings from Gensler (requires Adobe Flash):

http://www.gensler.com/#aboutus/news...s/112

All of the exterior illustrations are either at night, and filled with blue lighting, or the single illustration that's during the day also seems to be having a snow storm going on........ gee.......

I also believe that there isn't a train station with the original illustration, that would have to have been factored in here as well. But now, with the hotel and trains station due south of Jeppesen, if sometime in the future the airlines need more space in Jeppeson, where is it to expand?

Obviously, I guess that most can see that I have my reservations with this now.......

 

[Edited 2012-03-04 19:21:40]
 
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mariner
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:28 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 16):
I'm sorry, Calatravia cookie cutters his "signature design" on every damn project. Its not original or unique, and honestly, its ugly.

I'm gob-smacked that anyone would describe the Milwaukee Art Museum as cookie cutter, or the glorious WYC Transit Hub in New York - and I am struggling to see much difference between the original Calatrava design for Denver and the present one.

http://trendsupdates.com/spanish-arc...-the-denver-international-airport/

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point2point
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:35 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 18):
and I am struggling to see much difference between the original Calatrava design for Denver and the present one.

It's not so much in the design, it's in the coloring (exterior effect) that I think is the concern here.

And I also think that a lot of Calatrava's creations would also not be as effective if different exteriors would have been used.

 
 
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:42 am

Quoting point2point (Reply 19):
And I also think that a lot of Calatrava's creations would also not be as effective if different exteriors would have been used.

Surely they would not. If they were different exteriors they wouldn't be Calatrava designs.   

If you mean just the color, then who knows? Gehry's Bilbao Guggenheim is superb, but it might have been as wonderful with a metal other than titanium.

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Mir
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:44 am

Quoting point2point (Reply 17):
I managed to find an illustration of where the hotel was "supposed" to go when the first of the airport plans were available....

Would that they had actually put it there - you can't see the terminal anymore from the access roads. What's the point of having a special terminal if you can't see it.

It's going to become another TWA T5, and that's a shame.

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PITrules
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:49 am

Architecture aside, I see another issue with this plan.

Right now DEN has the ability to double its runways and gates. Would it have the corresponding ability to double its landside (ticketing/baggage claim) terminal if this new plan goes through? The most obvious way to expand the Jeppesen Terminal is southward in a linear fashion. The location of the hotel and train station pretty much eliminates this ability.

[Edited 2012-03-04 19:50:17]
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point2point
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:55 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 20):
Surely they would not. If they were different exteriors they wouldn't be Calatrava designs.

I think that we're somehow agreeing here my friend.... could it be?
 
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:03 am

Quoting point2point (Reply 23):
I think that we're somehow agreeing here my friend.... could it be?

I don't think we are. I think it looks like the Calatrava concept - but call me when it is built and we see how the light plays on it.

And - just for fits and giggles - I looked up some of the almost overwhelming criticism of DIA when it was built. Here's just one - Frederico's Folly:

http://fumento.com/transport/specpena.html

Secretary of Transportation Federico Peña got his job by wasting $10 billion on the biggest public works disaster of modern times – an airport worse in every way than the one it replaced.

Nevertheless, there are those, such as Aviation Systems’ Boyd, who argues that Peña’s ability to sell a dog like Denver International is what made him such an ideal choice for the Clinton administration. Said Boyd, "It was built on promises that were never kept, and statistics that were totally inaccurate, and it will cost an enormous amount of money."


I bet none of those people are saying those things now.  

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BOACCunard
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:04 am

Quoting point2point (Reply 7):

DIA was allowed to keep the architect's basic plan but not those touches that define his work.

I find it fascinating that Calatrava apparently was able to determine which elements "define his work" and which (like the shape of the building?!) were not so important.

From reading that you'd think he invented the color white!
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AG2006
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:37 am

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 25):
I find it fascinating that Calatrava apparently was able to determine which elements "define his work" and which (like the shape of the building?!) were not so important.

From reading that you'd think he invented the color white!

I wrote to DEN with that comment and this is verbatum what they responded.

Quote:

Santiago Calatrava does not own the color white, however the white features from the original renderings were considered signature elements of his design and were unique to his vision. When we parted ways with Calatrava, it was determined that those elements would need to be taken out. We’ve decided to go with glass and steel elements instead and feel that the revised concept is equally as stunning as the original.
Quoting PITrules (Reply 22):

Architecture aside, I see another issue with this plan.

Right now DEN has the ability to double its runways and gates. Would it have the corresponding ability to double its landside (ticketing/baggage claim) terminal if this new plan goes through? The most obvious way to expand the Jeppesen Terminal is southward in a linear fashion. The location of the hotel and train station pretty much eliminates this ability.

Apparently, the underground train to the Concourses is being expanded south with this project and there will be more ticketing on level 4 of this new structure.



[Edited 2012-03-04 20:42:51]
 
BD338
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:17 am

Quoting AG2006 (Thread starter):
DEN is about to begin a $500 million expansion.

Construction has already started. There is a massive excavation to the south of the terminal. Impressive stuff. I wonder when they will start on the rail from downtown, that is a huge project in itself.
 
point2point
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:19 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 24):
And - just for fits and giggles - I looked up some of the almost overwhelming criticism of DIA when it was built. Here's just one - Frederico's Folly:
Quoting mariner (Reply 24):
I bet none of those people are saying those things now.

Well, DEN opened I believe in about March of 1995, and in April of 1995, was my first time through it arriving on a flight from NYC. I was absolutely overwhelmed by it, and I thought it was magnificent. But that's me.....

Quoting mariner (Reply 24):
but call me when it is built and we see how the light plays on it.

Okay, I'll do my best to be optimistic that it'll open on a snowy day.......

Nonetheless, maybe this whole thing will find a way so that it all doesn't look like - a mess. I really prefer that it didn't look like a mess though, so I guess we'll just have to wait.

Quoting Mir (Reply 21):
Quoting point2point (Reply 17):
I managed to find an illustration of where the hotel was "supposed" to go when the first of the airport plans were available....

Would that they had actually put it there - you can't see the terminal anymore from the access roads. What's the point of having a special terminal if you can't see it.

I believe in the original design that the hotel is located to the south and east of Jeppesen. If so, then Jeppesen still would have been the focal point, and the hotel off to the side. Depending on how the hotel was designed, it could have been an architectural gem.... or plain and simple as in the illustration.... but somehow now looking at this whole situation, I think that maybe the hotel would have been better placed there, and could have been it's own architectural standout, without interfering with Jeppesen.



Quoting AG2006 (Reply 26):
Apparently, the underground train to the Concourses is being expanded south with this project and there will be more ticketing on level 4 of this new structure.

That's good to hear...... and they will probably need more ticket counter space some day there.

[Edited 2012-03-04 21:26:01]
 
JayinKitsap
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:44 am

Quoting point2point (Reply 28):
I believe in the original design that the hotel is located to the south and east of Jeppesen. If so, then Jeppesen still would have been the focal point, and the hotel off to the side. Depending on how the hotel was designed, it could have been an architectural gem.... or plain and simple as in the illustration.... but somehow now looking at this whole situation, I think that maybe the hotel would have been better placed there, and could have been it's own architectural standout, without interfering with Jeppesen.

This is a 500 room hotel, I would think that DIA should have 5 or 6 this size. I think the original plan with the hotels off to the side of the entrance road would be more appropriate. I do love the Jeppesen terminal, even though I think a huge amount of money was wasted. The sign of a great architect to me is one that creates an amazing looking design for just an above average budget. Any architect with a gold plated budget can create a nice looking building.

Downtown Seattle there is the relatively new Library Building designed by architect Rem Koolhass. It looks cool but it added more than 25% to the cost of the project. On the day they opened, the library was already full. A good looking building NOT designed by the Architect to win an award as the "wildest building" would be prudent.
 
denverdanny
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:48 am

I'm glad they axed the bridge. It was too expensive and a waste of money.

Quoting hi_flyer (Reply 4):
Given DEN's climate, I would think they'd put the whole length of the train under cover so that people don't have to go trudging through the snow.

Well, our climate is actually pretty decent. Usually, the sun comes out the next day after the storms and melts the snow away. Who knows if they'll have heated cement or whatever. It will be very nice during the spring through fall.

On a slight tangent, a similar thing happened with the planning for Union Station--the main transfer point for the metro-wide rail expansion. Rather than house all the trains and buses in one location, the light rail trains were pushed a few blocks away. They say it was because it wasn't feasible to construct a situation where all the transit modes were under one roof, but it seemed to me it was about creating retail opportunities, similar to what exists with the current 16th street mall being, which is bookended by two major bus terminals. About creating pedestrian activity between the two.

Quoting cmhsrq (Reply 3):
It would be nice if they could tie the new train connections to the rental car lot and the Tower road hotels.

I believe some developers are pushing to have stations added along Pena. Personally, I'm against it, as adding stations would slow the train. Keep in mind that this is also part of a metro wide rail transit expansion project. People will be using other train lines and transferring at Union Station downtown to the airport train. I would want to make it competitive to taxis and existing airport bus rides in terms of time. Plus, it's a lot easier I'm sure to have shuttles pick up and drop people off. You'd also be clogging the train with a bunch of people who are just going to the rental lots. I'm sure in time stations will be added along the route. I'd rather have shuttles from the airport to lots and hotels. Good for jobs too.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 22):
Right now DEN has the ability to double its runways and gates. Would it have the corresponding ability to double its landside (ticketing/baggage claim) terminal if this new plan goes through? The most obvious way to expand the Jeppesen Terminal is southward in a linear fashion. The location of the hotel and train station pretty much eliminates this ability.

I'm concerned about that too.

Quoting point2point (Reply 7):
And with that, it will be very difficult (in my personal opinion) to have the clear glass of the expansion phase harmonize with the bright white coloring of the Jeppesen Terminal.

I disagree. Under the teflon roof is glass. Interestingly, the original airport design called for stepped glass pyramids for both the terminal and the concourses.

If anybody is wondering why Pena Blvd curves out of the way instead of going straight to the airport, part of that has to do with the city purchasing land just east of the Arsenal because they believed the airport would be located in that area, before it was finally decided on its present location. I think the city wanted to save money by using that land as part of the road. Probably also helps with potential development by creating a larger area for possibilities.

If you look at the train route diagram in the original post, you can also see the entire length is not double tracked, which could be an issue later on down the line.
 
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:48 am

Quoting johns624 (Reply 2):
They have to make sure that they don't run into any of the secret subterranean rooms when they drive the pilings for the expansion.

Or that the train will be used to haul in the prisoners when the New World Order goes into effect.
 
point2point
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RE: DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion

Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:15 am

Quoting denverdanny (Reply 30):
Quoting point2point (Reply 7):
And with that, it will be very difficult (in my personal opinion) to have the clear glass of the expansion phase harmonize with the bright white coloring of the Jeppesen Terminal.

I disagree.

I really want you to be correct here, and you can even say - I told you so - and would really like to hear it if somehow this whole thing isn't going to be the big mess that I'm thinking that it's going to be. Maybe when it's all done, I'll see how well this all worked out, and I do want it to....

But in the meantime, I guess that I'm still sort of a skeptic here......

  

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