DTWLAX
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DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:58 pm

Just read about the website/FF/Reservations issues the new UA is facing since the computer switchover the past couple of days.
This prompted me to compare the UA/CO merger with the DL/NW merger.

From what I remember, the new DL did not face any such IT issues when they switched over to the DL system. I do not remember any reservations beng lost or frequent flier miles missing. In fact when my Worldperks number switched over to the Skymiles number, only the last digit changed and an additional digit was added as the first one. Everything else between the 2 digits remained the same as my Worldperks number.

But in the case of the MileagePlus program, my membership number changed from all numerical to alpha-numerical. It is just a bit hard to remember a completely new number.

This is just one of the differences between the 2 mergers, there are a few more. I just feel that the DL/NW merger was more seamless than the UA/CO merger.

What do my fellow nutters think? What other differences are there from a customer point of view? Which merger was more easier for the customers to handle? Let us keep this healthy and not get involved in unnecessary bashing of DL and UA.
 
LOWS
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:13 pm

Quoting DTWLAX (Thread starter):
This is just one of the differences between the 2 mergers, there are a few more. I just feel that the DL/NW merger was more seamless than the UA/CO merger.

I think it's important to bear in mind that DL/NW had been cooperating for some time before, and were using the same GDS.

As for the FF issues, I understand those are being resolved within 24hrs.
 
727LOVER
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:15 pm

Dont see why US/HP cant be added as well.
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BOACCunard
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:42 pm

Quoting LOWS (Reply 1):
I think it's important to bear in mind that DL/NW had been cooperating for some time before, and were using the same GDS.

Well, UA/CO had been cooperating for some time before, too, but they weren't using the same GDS, and I think that makes a big difference.

But does anyone else remember that initially DL decided that NWA.com was going to be the surviving web site, and then backtracked and said it was keeping Delta.com because that transition would be too complicated? I think that's an interesting contrast to what UA decided.

But I think this was just bound to be a somewhat more complicated merger. While it's very unfortunate that people traveling this weekend are having issues, as long as all this is ironed out within a few days, I'll still consider it a success. (And I hope it is since I am flying UA on Saturday.   )
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CIDFlyer
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:27 pm

DL/NW did appear to be more seamless in comparison, but that is just my humble opinion... seemed like branding at hubs, websites etc were alot more smooth. I flew threw Ohare in Oct and the gates were rebranded inside, but the jet bridges outside were not. Now I suppose the general public probably couldnt care less, but for an anutter like me I noticed that off the bat.
 
DTWLAX
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:59 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 2):
Dont see why US/HP cant be added as well.

I think we all know how that has worked out. Better to keep that out and not compare with the others!
 
LOWS
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:15 pm

Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 5):

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 2):
Dont see why US/HP cant be added as well.

I think we all know how that has worked out. Better to keep that out and not compare with the others!

Also, they are/were much smaller than UA/CO and DL/NW.
 
ordbosewr
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:22 pm

apples to oranges comparisons.... in the IT world nothing can be compared to each other. they all have aspects that make them unique. whether it is US/HP or DL/NW or CO/UA...
they are all different
 
RobertS975
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:52 pm

Memories about the DL/NW merger are short! I flew both of them frequently during the transition, and trying to change your flight from a ticketed flight on one carrier to the other resulted in multiple phone transfers and frequent "we can't do that right now" responses. Often, you just went to the gate or ticket counter and asked them to punch the "override" button!
 
777fan
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:25 am

Quoting DTWLAX (Thread starter):

But in the case of the MileagePlus program, my membership number changed from all numerical to alpha-numerical. It is just a bit hard to remember a completely new number.
Quoting LOWS (Reply 1):

As for the FF issues, I understand those are being resolved within 24hrs.

My Mileage Plus number (the same since 1983) is no more, but I honestly couldn't care less. I used to think it was difficult to remember my original number until I got to typing it in repeatedly - it eventually got to the point where I had memorized my wife's number as well; I'm pretty sure I'll figure out the alphanumeric combo before long and in any case, you're given the opportunity to create your own login (no excuse there). FWIW, my information (FF profile, activity, itineraries, etc.) was loaded (accurately) as of this morning.

777fan
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dlphoenix
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:18 am

Quoting DTWLAX (Thread starter):
What do my fellow nutters think? What other differences are there from a customer point of view? Which merger was more easier for the customers to handle? Let us keep this healthy and not get involved in unnecessary bashing of DL and UA.

Integrating computer systems is a piece of cake when you consider the integration of personnel groups with conflicting interests and huge egos.
DL did an outstanding job integrating their employee groups.
UA has yet to integrate a single group.

One data point regarding IT integration: I was on board a UA flight when integration started. By the time I landed my reservations were available on line including upgrade requests and my MP and Op miles were merged. The award booking engine is also working, something Delta claims it can not fix since the IT staff is busy with integration leftovers.

Happy travels
DLP
 
cruiseshipcrew
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:18 am

My account transferred over just fine with about five reservations booked. Even one that I was "holding" for 24 hours switched over.
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AA767LOVER
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:26 am

My fiance's reservation from SFO-LIM was CANCELED, not LOST through the integration process.
CANCELED is a more severe word. Use only the most severe, don't make it light.
They probably won't care to, even if I am Premier Silver.
Also, ALL PREMIER SLIVERS (yes, intentional) are RE-DIRECTED to regular lines because our business is not good enough or not important enough to bother the elite desk.
Just my rant on the integration. 15 days is the MINIMUM time it will take them to get the issues resolved.
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VgnAtl747
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:51 pm

For what it's worth, I haven't had any issues. That said, I am a CO elite so my number didn't change, but I have international reward travel (on CO miles) booked, and that wasn't affected--it was issued a new confirmation number as with all existing reservations, but everything is accurate. Profile information, balances, etc. are all correct.

It sounds like perhaps the issues are more from bringing the UA data into the the CO system? Possibly affecting PMUA folks more than PMCO?
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codc10
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:54 pm

The only negative I have experienced thus far is that one flight JFK-LAX tomorrow that was confirmed in C with an instrument has lost its seat assignment (9B) and is showing as booked in coach even though my fare basis (R) is an upgraded category.

We'll see what happens tomorrow.
 
B2443
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:36 pm

I am already not liking the new FF number. I had both DL and NW FF numbers. In the end, the DL survived and NW one disappeared.

BTW, Does the UA mileage expire any more? The new website doesn't show "expiration" date.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:47 pm

Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 5):
I think we all know how that has worked out.

On the IT side, pretty well. The transition to SHARES was rough for employees, but everything customer-facing worked reasonably smoothly.

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 8):
Memories about the DL/NW merger are short! I flew both of them frequently during the transition, and trying to change your flight from a ticketed flight on one carrier to the other resulted in multiple phone transfers and frequent "we can't do that right now" responses.

  

Also, they didn't sell each other's inventory for a long time. So if you wanted to fly STL-ATL-JAX and there were "NW seats" on the STL-ATL but no "DL seats" and "DL seats" on the ATL-JAX but no "NW seats," it wasn't bookable.
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tommy767
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:09 pm

DL/NW was definitely smoother and I feel like they tried a lot harder to let passengers know of what is going on via social media updates. Some other obvious wins over UA/CO was the website and reservation integration, getting new uniforms out ontime to NW staff, catering sychro, branding, etc.

There are some differences of course. DL made an effort to recover and add carpets to the NW fleet whereas UA has already stared quick installation of Economy Plus to the CO fleet.

The hub.united.com is too little too late as far as I'm concerned. They should have had this out on 10/1/10. Delta won with social media updates easily.

Plus I feel like Delta possessed an overall positive image during the merger -- sort of like a "We're working VERY hard to create new Delta and it's going to be a positive experience." Whereas what is coming out of Chicago is sort of something rather smug like "You're going to like the new United, we're going to be the best, but don't expect much in the near future as it's EXTREMELY hard work to merge an airline. Do you know how HARD it is??"

Delta I think worked just a wee bit harder to get things done than United has.
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delta2ual
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:44 pm

I know people on the transition team and if things get messed up, it sure isn't from lack of trying on their part. They are working very hard to get things smoothly integrated. Unfortunately, there will be bumps in the road, especially considering the size of the 2 companies. To me, the real test will be getting joint contracts. That's gonna be difficult without costing a lot of money.
Ás for DL/NW, I can't find the article right now, but more than one analyst has called it the smoothest merger in airline history. I've personally been through 2-and they aren't easy.
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nyc2theworld
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:06 pm

This has been mentioned before, DL had to work quickly to create a "new" Delta. How long after bankruptcy did DL and NW merge? DL could go to both employee groups "old Delta and old NW" and say "We've both been through bankruptcy but now we can work together to make the new DL better than what NW could have been by itself, and better than what DL could have been by itself."

United and Continental are not coming from that position. In fact, Smisek said that that this merger would have a different look/feel/timeframe than previous airline mergers. They are merging to fundamentally strong companies to make a larger, stronger company. That's a lot harder to convince people to do than if your company is in bankruptcy and you might loose your job.

So yes, DL had to create a "We're working very hard to create a better Delta" because in the media they were almost down for the count with other airlines acting like vultures making hostile bids against them.

UA/CO had to play it slow and ease their stakeholders into a new airline. PSS is a major step, but its just a step. Now we'll probably see action happen on getting employee groups on single contracts and eventually a reformatted website.

At 10/1/10 they had unitedcontinentalholings.com where they were posting all merger updates, and had links from the home page of continental.com and united.com talking about merger updates. So they had a merger hub, just in a different form.

I think the tone coming out of Chicago is more realistic than idealistic.
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:38 pm

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 19):
they were almost down for the count with other airlines acting like vultures making hostile bids against them.

ONE airline?

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 19):
How long after bankruptcy did DL and NW merge?

The original announcement was made about a year after DL emerged from BK.

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 19):
They are merging to fundamentally strong companies to make a larger, stronger company.

Don't know how "strong" UA was at the time THEY announced, but I know most of the employees were NOT happy with Glenn Tilton, at the time.

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 19):
That's a lot harder to convince people to do than if your company is in bankruptcy and you might loose your job.

But, neither DL nor NW was in BK at the time of the merger, so your argument doesn't hold water.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:43 pm

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 18):
Ás for DL/NW, I can't find the article right now, but more than one analyst has called it the smoothest merger in airline history. I've personally been through 2-and they aren't easy.

I think that perhaps that analyst isn't considering the DL/WA merger, which, in all honesty was smaller, but very smooth, in my memory. The DL/NW merger may have been relatively smooth, but the representation elections and the subsequent investigation of the elections by the NMB, put several large bumps in the road before that was settled. Nothing like that in the DL/WA merger except for a "union/no union" glitch on the first day.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
nyc2theworld
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:22 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 20):
ONE airline?

Even if its one airline, please tell me in what industry is a hostile takeover attempted looked at as a good thing for the company that's trying to be bought.

Quoting mayor (Reply 20):
Don't know how "strong" UA was at the time THEY announced, but I know most of the employees were NOT happy with Glenn Tilton, at the time.

Nobody is ever happy with someone who has to make the hard decisions, but the matter of the fact it, they SURVIVED the most complex and longest bankruptcy in corporate history. The financial performance however was quite good at the time of the merger announcement and has been since.

The point is that DL and NW were both coming from low points (a BK) and had to rebuild support amongst all their stakeholders. CO and UA were not in that situation. That makes the UA CO merger a lot different from the NW DL merger.
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usdcaguy
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:03 am

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 22):

The point is that DL and NW were both coming from low points (a BK) and had to rebuild support amongst all their stakeholders. CO and UA were not in that situation. That makes the UA CO merger a lot different from the NW DL merger.

How does that change UA's situation? There was a sizeable difference in brand perception between UA and CO. Thank goodness they kept the CO branding. Still not the same company, though, and never will be. Got to be based on Smith Street for that to happen. Moving to Chicago changed things for a lot of people.
 
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:49 am

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 22):
That makes the UA CO merger a lot different from the NW DL merger.

And quite frankly, considering how smoothly the DL/NW merger has gone, despite any drawbacks, even more of an accomplishment than UA/CO, wouldn't you agree?

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 22):
Even if its one airline, please tell me in what industry is a hostile takeover attempted looked at as a good thing for the company that's trying to be bought.

None....however, I was just pointing out that, when you stated "AIRLINES" were hanging about like vultures with hostile takeover bids, that just wasn't true and, actually, I don't think that US had a snowball's chance in hell of getting their bid accepted, either.
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nyc2theworld
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:57 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 23):
How does that change UA's situation? There was a sizeable difference in brand perception between UA and CO. Thank goodness they kept the CO branding. Still not the same company, though, and never will be. Got to be based on Smith Street for that to happen. Moving to Chicago changed things for a lot of people.

Its a lot harder to convince certain stakeholders that you need a merger when you are financially strong than if you aren't (i.e. DL/NW).

Quoting mayor (Reply 24):
And quite frankly, considering how smoothly the DL/NW merger has gone, despite any drawbacks, even more of an accomplishment than UA/CO, wouldn't you agree?

Its easier to rebuild something when you decide to start from scratch which is what DL did with their brand after bankruptcy and the NW merger and just slapped DL on everything on the outside. There was no merging of the brands in this case. UA CO again, did NOT take that approach (despite what some people think).

Again, UA CO are coming from a different situation where they are trying to integrate more than just operations but brands.

For example, UA has re-branded the following

UA International First -> UA Global First
UA International Business ->UA BusinessFirst

please tell me what brands DL kept from NW because I can't think of any.
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tommy767
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:10 pm

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 25):

A lot of behind the scenes little things that you don't see much of in the branding.

DL took a lot from NW...

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 23):
How does that change UA's situation? There was a sizeable difference in brand perception between UA and CO. Thank goodness they kept the CO branding

Uh what? You've got to be kidding. Killing the Saul Bass logo to many is unforgivable.
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nyc2theworld
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:18 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 26):
A lot of behind the scenes little things that you don't see much of in the branding.

DL took a lot from NW...

I didn't ask about behind the scenes. I asked about branding which is customer facing. DL did not keep any NW branding like UA did with CO. Merging brands (what UA and CO are doing) is tougher than just replacing brands (what DL and NW did).
Always wonderers if this "last and final boarding call" is in fact THE last and final boarding call.
 
superjeff
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:18 pm

Quoting DTWLAX (Thread starter):

NW and DL were both using the same computer system - Worldspan. UA was on Apollo and CO on HP's Shares. So there was a major change in computer systems with the UA/CO merger and no change with DL/NW.
 
tommy767
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:22 pm

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 27):
I didn't ask about behind the scenes. I asked about branding which is customer facing. DL did not keep any NW branding like UA did with CO. Merging brands (what UA and CO are doing) is tougher than just replacing brands (what DL and NW did).

UA didn't take any branding from the PMUA except for the name. Even the prehistoric ex-continental website is barely branded United.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
Cubsrule
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:22 pm

Quoting superjeff (Reply 28):
So there was a major change in computer systems with the UA/CO merger and no change with DL/NW.

And yet, DL/NW had teething issues. Perhaps the issue is expectations. No one should expert a merger of this magnitude to go perfectly smoothly.
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:37 pm

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 25):
Again, UA CO are coming from a different situation where they are trying to integrate more than just operations but brands.

And, in doing so, ended up with one of the homliest and plainest liveries out there. Don't get me wrong.....I liked the Continental livery, but when they tried to combine the two, it just doesn't work, for me. Besides, if you look at the branding, how have they really integrated it? They took the CO logo and then slapped the UA name on it......how is that any more difficult than what DL has done?



BTW, what is MORE important.........integrating the brands or the operations and everything else? Seems like integrating the brands is the easiest part and since DL was already doing that, before the merger started, would you expect them to change horses in midstream and start on another course of action? (Lets forget about the Ron Allen livery and "Wavy Gravy" livery......no one could figure out that course of action.)
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nyc2theworld
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:39 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 29):

UA didn't take any branding from the PMUA except for the name. Even the prehistoric ex-continental website is barely branded United.

Incorrect, company name and Frequent Flyer Program name were taken from PMUA. Status levels were a mix of PMUA (1K and Global Services) but mostly PMCO (Silver, Gold Platinum). As for the website, if hub.united.com wasn't down I would quote that their main purpose right now is to work out the issues from PSS switchover then work on added functionality/features to the website.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 30):
And yet, DL/NW had teething issues. Perhaps the issue is expectations. No one should expert a merger of this magnitude to go perfectly smoothly.

  
Always wonderers if this "last and final boarding call" is in fact THE last and final boarding call.
 
delta2ual
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:13 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 21):
I think that perhaps that analyst isn't considering the DL/WA merger, which, in all honesty was smaller, but very smooth, in my memory.

That is true. I wasn't there for that, but I'd heard that it was a very smooth merger.

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 19):
That's a lot harder to convince people to do than if your company is in bankruptcy and you might loose your job.

I can't speak for NW people, but at DL we were out of BK and didn't fear "loosing" (losing) our jobs. Our then COO, Jim Whitehurst (whom many of us wanted to see as the next CEO) showed us a powerpoint after BK of all the things we accomplished in our BK, in about 1/2 the time it took UAL.

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 19):
I think the tone coming out of Chicago is more realistic than idealistic.

Knowing people on the transition team, there are realistic and idealistic expectations. They are very excited and are reportedly working well together.

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 25):
Its a lot harder to convince certain stakeholders that you need a merger when you are financially strong than if you aren't (i.e. DL/NW).

After the BK's, both NW and DL were financially strong.

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 25):
just slapped DL on everything on the outside.

Kinda like UAL did with the CO brand.

Quoting superjeff (Reply 28):
NW and DL were both using the same computer system - Worldspan.

The main platform was Worldspan; Deltamatic was built off this platform and wasn't used by NW. I have never used SHARES/PARS (EDS), but Apollo at UAL was awful (at least the version we used).
From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
 
nyc2theworld
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:00 pm

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 33):
Kinda like UAL did with the CO brand.

A brand identity is more than just a logo. And I've given multiple examples of which PMUA brands were used, and PMCO brands were used.

Quoting mayor (Reply 31):
And, in doing so, ended up with one of the homliest and plainest liveries out there. Don't get me wrong.....I liked the Continental livery, but when they tried to combine the two, it just doesn't work, for me. Besides, if you look at the branding, how have they really integrated it? They took the CO logo and then slapped the UA name on it......how is that any more difficult than what DL has done?

BTW, what is MORE important.........integrating the brands or the operations and everything else? Seems like integrating the brands is the easiest part and since DL was already doing that, before the merger started, would you expect them to change horses in midstream and start on another course of action? (Lets forget about the Ron Allen livery and "Wavy Gravy" livery......no one could figure out that course of action.)

Delta couldn't slap their brand on NW planes until they owned NW, so they had to do it AFTER the legal merger. I have given multiple examples (i.e. company name, company logo, classes of service (and yes, BusinessFirst is a brand), name of frequent flyer plan, levels in frequent flyer plan) that were taken from both companies. Out of those things listed

Company name - Delta
Company logo - Pre-merger delta Logo
Classes of Service - All pre-merger delta names (i.e. BusinessElite vs WorldBusinessClass)
Name of Frequent Flyer plan - SkyMiles
FFP Levels - Delta and NW (mainly b/c their FFP were very similar already)

Company name - United
Company Logo - PMCO
Classes of Service - BusinessFirst comes from PMCO, the name "Economy+" stayed the same and came from PMUA
Name of Frequent Flyer plan - MileagePlus (PMUA)
FFP Levels - Mix (Most from CO the highest 2 from UA)


The fact is DL may have kept some internal things from NW, but everything customer facing was taken from DL. The new United is taking a very different approach.
Always wonderers if this "last and final boarding call" is in fact THE last and final boarding call.
 
codc10
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:03 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 26):

DL took a lot from NW...

Such as?

You're right, DL took a lot from NW... in fact, everything!  Wink It was a fundamentally different transaction and DL treated the integration as such. Talk to a lot of ex-NWA flyers and they'll tell you that through the merger they were easily as disgruntled as some CO/UA elites are now, if not more so. Many of those ex-NWA elites in competitive markets are also ex-DL.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 29):
Even the prehistoric ex-continental website is barely branded United.

Both sites were rolled out in about 2007/8, and United.com didn't get the '.bomb' reputation for nothing.

[Edited 2012-03-06 09:04:53]
 
tommy767
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:28 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 35):
You're right, DL took a lot from NW... in fact, everything! It was a fundamentally different transaction and DL treated the integration as such. Talk to a lot of ex-NWA flyers and they'll tell you that through the merger they were easily as disgruntled as some CO/UA elites are now, if not more so. Many of those ex-NWA elites in competitive markets are also ex-DL.

There is no way that ex-NWA elites made nearly as much of a fuss as the UA/CO elite dilemma. There are several reasons for this:
1. Living in fortress hub markets such as DTW, ATL, SLC, and MSP, many NWA and Delta elites really had no other option
2. UA has something called "Global Services" and "1K" members. Great in theory, but they are the spoiled "daddy's girls" of the domestic airline industry. They will kick and scream over just about any new change. The CO high tier elites aren't much better either. Delta and Northwest had elite members that were more modest in comparison.
3. UA has downgraded premier to be worse than DL Silver. Especially with the new line of UA credit cards.
4. UA has made changes regardless of input (the conservative CO way) whereas Delta has always strived for customer feedback. Flyertalk is just a giant haterade right now of angry elites from CO and UA.

...to name a few.

I think many of those ex-NWA elites just sucked it up and took their diamond status and ran  
Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 34):
Company name - Delta
Company logo - Pre-merger delta Logo
Classes of Service - All pre-merger delta names (i.e. BusinessElite vs WorldBusinessClass)
Name of Frequent Flyer plan - SkyMiles
FFP Levels - Delta and NW (mainly b/c their FFP were very similar already)

And this was probably the best way to do it. DL was always stronger with branding and there was no question about that. With UA/CO you have this disgusting hodgepodge of branding which leaves many flyers confused and scratching their heads of what exactly is going on in Chicago.
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codc10
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:45 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 36):
There is no way that ex-NWA elites made nearly as much of a fuss as the UA/CO elite dilemma. There are several reasons for this:

Then you just weren't paying attention, or have an incredibly short memory.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 36):
1. Living in fortress hub markets such as DTW, ATL, SLC, and MSP, many NWA and Delta elites really had no other option

Hence my use of 'competitive markets'. Every airline tries its best to gouge hub-captive travelers. That's why the model will never die.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 36):
2. UA has something called "Global Services" and "1K" members.

I am eminently aware of this fact.  
Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 36):
Delta and Northwest had elite members that were more modest in comparison.

How can you make that generalization? Modest in what regard? Spend? Income? Temperament?

Give me a break.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 36):
3. UA has downgraded premier to be worse than DL Silver.

Right, DL Silver, they of no SkyPriority and a 50% discount for EconomyComfort. UA Premier Silver members still have complimentary access to E+ at check-in, Premier Access, and get the same one bag free.

So, how exactly is it worse?

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 36):
4. UA has made changes regardless of input (the conservative CO way) whereas Delta has always strived for customer feedback. Flyertalk is just a giant haterade right now of angry elites from CO and UA.

Flyertalk is always a "giant haterade" of angry elites. Right now is no different.

I disagree thoroughly with your assessment that the "CO way" was to make changes without customer input. There are a number of changes that were reversed specifically because of customer input, and the outcry insisting E+ be extended to the CO fleet after the merger was certainly beneficial to the retention of that product.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 36):
...to name a few.

Yet you fail to idenfity one single thing that DL kept from Northwest...
 
apodino
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:48 pm

Off Topic a bit, but why is it that both UA and US use SHARES, but yet UA employees are given access to and even encouraged to use native SHARES, while US employees don't have access to native at all and have to rely on the QIK interface? You would think US might give their employees a bit more flexibility to handle IROPS considering their PHL hub.
 
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:03 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 38):
Yet you fail to idenfity one single thing that DL kept from Northwest...

Their employees.  
You can't cure stupid
 
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mayor
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:11 pm

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 34):

Delta couldn't slap their brand on NW planes until they owned NW, so they had to do it AFTER the legal merger.

DL was ALREADY changing their brand, BEFORE the merger. Should they have scrapped that and completely changed, again? How foolish would that be?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
nyc2theworld
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:18 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 36):
1. Living in fortress hub markets such as DTW, ATL, SLC, and MSP, many NWA and Delta elites really had no other option

And what about EWR, IAH, DEN, SFO and CLE? Are those not fortress hubs?

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 36):
And this was probably the best way to do it. DL was always stronger with branding and there was no question about that. With UA/CO you have this disgusting hodgepodge of branding which leaves many flyers confused and scratching their heads of what exactly is going on in Chicago.

That's the difference. CO and UA were strong brands on their own. OnePass one awards for its FFP, PMCO won awards for BusinessFirst, UA was more well known in Asia, CO had a strong presence in Europe.

NW didn't have any of those which is why DL didn't keep anything from NW (from a brand perspective). If you have two strong brands you don't just throw away one for the other, you try and keep things from both. Every merger is messy in the beginning. Two months from now nobody will care what OnePass was about, what the old Mileage Plus levels were. It took me a minute to think of what the PMUA logo was.

Quoting mayor (Reply 40):
DL was ALREADY changing their brand, BEFORE the merger. Should they have scrapped that and completely changed, again? How foolish would that be?

That hasn't stopped them before. For Delta, it worked due to they were absorbing a weaker brand. Not the case with UA/CO.
Always wonderers if this "last and final boarding call" is in fact THE last and final boarding call.
 
tommy767
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:39 pm

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 41):
That's the difference. CO and UA were strong brands on their own. OnePass one awards for its FFP, PMCO won awards for BusinessFirst, UA was more well known in Asia, CO had a strong presence in Europe.

NW didn't have any of those which is why DL didn't keep anything from NW (from a brand perspective). If you have two strong brands you don't just throw away one for the other, you try and keep things from both. Every merger is messy in the beginning. Two months from now nobody will care what OnePass was about, what the old Mileage Plus levels were. It took me a minute to think of what the PMUA logo was.

OnePass was a leftover brand from Eastern Airlines. Not a strong brand at all compared to Mileage Plus and I don't think CO won any awards for OnePass. Northwest's WorldPerks was more of a commodity than OnePass.

I'll give you BusinessFirst. A strong but confusing connotation for the merged airline, however.

Quoting mayor (Reply 40):

And arguably when they rolled out the new branding for Delta, they already knew at that point in 2007 that they would be merging with Northwest within the year.

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 41):
And what about EWR, IAH, DEN, SFO and CLE? Are those not fortress hubs?

EWR and IAH yes. DEN, CLE, and SFO not really. EWR and IAH flyers were loyal to CO to matter what they did.

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 39):
Their employees.

What are you talking about? DL kept around many NW employees.

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 37):
Yet you fail to idenfity one single thing that DL kept from Northwest...

I didn't see the sarcasm. I thought you would know that DL indeed did take a lot from NW. Little things especially including ringing the call sound 2 times before landing instead of 4. And the CEO is from NW!
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
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mayor
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:06 pm

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 41):
Quoting mayor (Reply 40):
DL was ALREADY changing their brand, BEFORE the merger. Should they have scrapped that and completely changed, again? How foolish would that be?

That hasn't stopped them before. For Delta, it worked due to they were absorbing a weaker brand. Not the case with UA/CO.

Lets see......with the C&S merger, they became Delta/C&S for two years and then became Delta, again.......with the NE merger, it was all DL....no changes in brand......the same goes for the WA merger and also for the PA acquisition.....SO, I fail to see what "That hasn't stopped them before" means? Somehow you're giving me the idea that DL either was only changing the brand DUE to the merger OR that the should have changed it BECAUSE of the merger. Either way is wrong and foolish.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 42):
And arguably when they rolled out the new branding for Delta, they already knew at that point in 2007 that they would be merging with Northwest within the year.

The branding was already taking place........are we to assume that the merger was already being worked on BEFORE it was announced in 2008?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
tommy767
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:08 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 43):

It's been rumored on here before that was the case.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
RobertS975
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:40 pm

The current Delta Air Lines has several dozen "progenitor" airlines in its family tree... Boston & Maine Airways, Pacific Northern, Chicago & Southern, Bonanza, West Coast, Pacific, Southern, Republic, Hughes AirWest. This family tree diagram is fun to study:

http://deltamuseum.org/pdf/Delta-NW_Family_Tree.pdf
 
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:53 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 44):
It's been rumored on here before that was the case.

Aye, there's the rub....it was a "rumor". Were there ANY facts to back it up? I never saw or heard of any.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:18 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 42):
What are you talking about? DL kept around many NW employees.

There was a smiley face after what I wrote, noting sarcasm. Chalk it up to lost in translation.
You can't cure stupid
 
delta2ual
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:18 pm

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 41):
NW didn't have any of those

Actually, NW had a very strong brand in Asia; especially with tour operators.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 42):
EWR and IAH yes

I wouldn't even call EWR a true fortress hub; you have JFK & LGA right next door. Any disgruntled UA flyer could always go there, but most don't-they just like to complain.
From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
 
tommy767
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RE: DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers

Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:29 pm

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 48):

Yeah PMCO flyers love to complain, but they'd never cheat on CO with DL out of LGA or JFK

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 45):

Love that family tree!

I also like how the Delta Heritage Museum offers products from it's previous merged airlines.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA