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jfklganyc
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LGA Airline Shuffle

Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:08 pm

There's a lot happening at LGA these days:

DL takes over most of Terminal C and connects it to D via bridge (currently under construction)

US moves operation to original US mainline gates on northern side of Terminal C and is supposed to build a new club there.

WestJet is also moving into Terminal C.

There is a rumor that B6 is moving into the old CO gates in Concourse A of the CTB. Rumor also has it that B6 will be doing quite a bit of rennovation in this area for their expanded schedule.

WN taking over most/all of Concourse B.

So questions I have:

Has US started building the club yet and where will it be?
Will DL renovate Terminal C extensively or just change airline names where needed?
Is B6 moving to A? How many gates?
Million dollar question: where is CO going? UA can't fit that operation in C.

When does all of this play out?
 
aquablue
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:20 pm

They better build something decent at LGA. For the gateway airport to NYC, I hope they don't resort to cheap designs. Alas, they'll probably build something utilitarian and boring as usual.
 
burnsie28
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:00 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Thread starter):
Will DL renovate Terminal C extensively or just change airline names where needed?

The SkyClub will be renovated from the old US club and will open sometime this summer. The connector bridge should be done by EOY 12, until then two busses will be post security to shuttle between C & D.
 
washingtonian
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:18 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Thread starter):
Is B6 moving to A? How many gates?
Million dollar question: where is CO going? UA can't fit that operation in C.

I'm not sure any airline is going to want to invest much in the CTB at this point since there are plans to build a new terminal in the next decade. Although I suppose American is currently (or perhaps already finished) renovating D and parts of C.

Agree with you though that some things need to be worked out ASAP: United's situation is what comes first to mind.

Quoting jfklganyc (Thread starter):
There is a rumor that B6 is moving into the old CO gates in Concourse A of the CTB.
Quoting jfklganyc (Thread starter):
WN taking over most/all of Concourse B.

My oh my, how things change. jetBlue and Southwest dominating a concouse each at LGA's CTB...Never thought I'd ever see that a decade ago!

Quoting jfklganyc (Thread starter):
Has US started building the club yet and where will it be?

The whole club plan at LGA seems idiotic to me, to put it mildly. Why put a DL club on the wing of the terminal that will house mostly US and WestJet? Most of DL's gates will be on the other, older side of the concourse. I also have no clue where US plans to put their club...
 
nycdave
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:07 am

LGA is a mess. I propose we move the whole operation to my fantasy world, where the parkway is bulldozed back along 23rd ave and Ditmars Blvd, allowing for a new, modern check-in facility and segmented midfield concourse, and making room for a parallel to 13/31.

In my fantasy world, we're also able to close off Bowery bay in building another parallel (bringing us to 2 sets of 2 parallel runways) to 4/22, stretching out onto part of Riker's Island. Barring that, the funds are available to relocate the MAT out of the way and maybe turn it into an aviation museum, freeing up the land for the 4/22 parallel without it having to extend as far into the east river.

And of course, since this is my fantasy, AirTrain is of course extended all the way up the GCP to LGA. The N or a high speed link were also considered, but we don't want my fantasy LGA to get TOO slammed.  
 
burnsie28
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:51 pm

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 3):

The whole club plan at LGA seems idiotic to me, to put it mildly. Why put a DL club on the wing of the terminal that will house mostly US and WestJet? Most of DL's gates will be on the other, older side of the concourse. I also have no clue where US plans to put their club...

The DL club will be where the DL gates are.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:05 pm

I think LGA operations moving to JFK and LGA closing are more likely than your fantasy world. Making LGA a mini SFO won't work because the parallels are too close both in SFO and in the fantasy LGA you mentioned. Bad arrival rates in bad weather
 
washingtonian
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:04 pm

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 5):

The DL club will be where the DL gates are.

No. There will be SOME DL gates there, but mostly US gates. The majority of Delta gates will be on the other side of the terminal from the new club...
 
nycdave
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:56 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 6):
I think LGA operations moving to JFK and LGA closing are more likely than your fantasy world. Making LGA a mini SFO won't work because the parallels are too close both in SFO and in the fantasy LGA you mentioned. Bad arrival rates in bad weather

Sigh, okay. Forget the new runways.  
 
deltairlines
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:06 pm

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 7):
No. There will be SOME DL gates there, but mostly US gates. The majority of Delta gates will be on the other side of the terminal from the new club...

There isn't a ton of space to build a large enough Sky Club over in the current US Shuttle pier without taking away gate seating space.

The current US club is a rather decent size that should in conjunction be able to take care of everything in the C building.

Truth is, it's no more than a 3-5 minute walk from the US club to the farthest US Shuttle gate. There are worse walks from club to gate in the system (having a flight out of H17 at Miami is a trek from the club, as are flights leaving from T6 at LAX).
 
burnsie28
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:18 pm

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 9):
The current US club is a rather decent size that should in conjunction be able to take care of everything in the C building.

March 25, the US Airways club will close and will become a Delta SkyClub, US Airways will be building their own new club, however, US Airways customers will be able to use the Delta SkyClub for either 1 or 2 years. Also the SkyClub will be open for two weeks then closed for a complete renovation to re-open in summer.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:24 pm

Did I miss something? Who gets the Marine Air Terminal?
 
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STT757
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:00 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 6):
I think LGA operations moving to JFK and LGA closing are more likely than your fantasy world

I think this should be the plan, but instead of closing LGA make it the region's main FBO airport by closing TEB and moving those operations to LGA. The Regional planning association is currently undertaking an expansion study for the regions airports, they think runway reconfiguration/expansion at JFK could net an additional 75 flight operations per hour.

Instead of investing more into LGA, and SWF (which is never going to be a legitimate alternative airport) focus all the resources into EWR and JFK. Bring the terminals up to standards, and build true public transportation connections (PATH @ EWR, JFK Airtrain - Lower Manhattan via Atlantic Ave Branch).
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jfklganyc
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:04 pm

STT,

would NJ go for closing TEB?
 
N1120A
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:07 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 11):

Did I miss something? Who gets the Marine Air Terminal?

US for US Shuttle.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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STT757
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:17 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 13):
would NJ go for closing TEB?

Absolutely, the Republicans in Bergen county have been trying to get it closed for years. Especially after that incident a couple years ago where the aircraft shot across route 4 and into a warehouse. TEB is surrounded by densely populated communities, they put up a stink every time the Port Authority tries to make any improvements.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
washingtonian
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:18 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):

US for US Shuttle.

No. Delta is keeping the MAT.
 
burnsie28
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:36 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
US for US Shuttle.

US will remain in C for all flights, Marine Air Terminal remains for Delta Shuttle.
 
rwy04lga
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:55 pm

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 17):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):US for US Shuttle.
US will remain in C for all flights

US gets gates 1-6, Westjet at gate 7.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
N1120A
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:57 pm

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 16):
No. Delta is keeping the MAT.

When did this happen?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
burnsie28
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:35 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
When did this happen?

A long time ago, don't have an exact date but we have been working on some MAT stuff for several months before the final announcement.
 
Art at ISP
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:39 am

The original plan had US taking the MAT for all their flights. After the original was rejected by DOT and they had to redo the slot allocation, DL kept the MAT and US got the western gates of Terminal C--I think they get 9 total spaces as some of the gates they retain are multi-aircraft capable.
 
delta2ual
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:40 pm

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 10):
US Airways customers will be able to use the Delta SkyClub for either 1 or 2 years.

Will DL customers also get use of the US club?
From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
 
aquablue
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:27 pm

They better build something decent at LGA. For the gateway airport to NYC, I hope they don't resort to cheap designs. Alas, they'll probably build something utilitarian and boring as usual.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 6):

It would cause too

Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):
Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):

I think this should be the plan, but instead of closing LGA make it the region's main FBO airport by closing TEB and moving those operations to LGA. The Regional planning association is currently undertaking an expansion study for the regions airports, they think runway reconfiguration/expansion at JFK could net an additional 75 flight operations per hour.

Instead of investing more into LGA, and SWF (which is never going to be a legitimate alternative airport) focus all the resources into EWR and JFK. Bring the terminals up to standards, and build true public transportation connections (PATH @ EWR, JFK Airtrain - Lower Manhattan via Atlantic Ave Branch).

Good idea, but then LGA is the favorite airport of NY and people won't like it closing for commercial flights.

However, I agree that LGA is constraining JFK from being utilized to its full potential and this should be considered at least.

The RPA though, in that report that you cited, seemed to suggest ways to realign the airspace while keeping LGA active, but often limited the airport to 1 runway unless NextGen were active.

Anyway, this is all moot unless someone found a way to expand JFK which most people here say is impossible due environmental laws.

[Edited 2012-03-09 10:28:56]
 
burnsie28
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:32 pm

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 22):
Will DL customers also get use of the US club?

There will be no US Airways club for something like six months, but as far as I know, its just US fliers able to access the one Delta SkyClub.
 
BOACCunard
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:09 pm

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 22):
Will DL customers also get use of the US club?

I suspect it is just that US pax get to use the DL club while a new US club is being built, because during that time period the only club in the terminal will be the DL one.

Once US has its own club again I can't imagine why it would continue to (presumably) pay DL for access to the DL club.
Getting There is Half the Fun!
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:27 pm

Let's bet $$ that US never builds a club. I think theire days as a major carrier at LGA are limited.
 
burnsie28
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:22 pm

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 25):
Once US has its own club again I can't imagine why it would continue to (presumably) pay DL for access to the DL club.

It has something to do with the contract that was signed for the slot swaps.
 
PIEAvantiP180
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:12 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 26):

  
Totally agree. DL did them a favor by discontinuing BOS - DCA, so US should return the favor by discontinuing the shuttle to BOS because i'm sure that neither airline is making money on the route. They should also get rid of the flights to PIT because that city is just a spoke in their system and not a hub any more. With that they would have the shuttle flight left to their hubs of DCA, CLT, and PHL and that's all they really need. That would be enough for them to move over to the MAT and let DL consolidate all of its operations in one building. With the slots they don't need they can always lease them to DL or sell them to another airline as i'm sure that the DOT won't allow DL to buy any more shots at LGA.
 
bobnwa
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:17 pm

Quoting aquablue (Reply 1):
Alas, they'll probably build something utilitarian and boring as usual.

In your opinion, where has Delta built utiltarian and boring terminals in the past to qualify for "as usual?
 
BOACCunard
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:24 am

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 27):
It has something to do with the contract that was signed for the slot swaps.

But then why build a US club?
Getting There is Half the Fun!
 
deltairlines
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:00 am

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 30):

But then why build a US club?

Because at the end of the (long) day, it's likely going to be far cheaper for US to operate their own club rather than pay Delta for each swipe they take.

Also, by US not having a club open, they lose out on other sources of revenue (ie United Club members, Star Alliance Gold members, AmEx customers) as well as not being able to brand the club in their own style. Also, for US members, it's merely a place to relax - a major part of the club is agents to assist in IROPS and I highly doubt that there will be a US agent in the Sky Club to assist US customers.
 
burnsie28
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:58 am

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 30):
But then why build a US club?
Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 31):
Because at the end of the (long) day, it's likely going to be far cheaper for US to operate their own club rather than pay Delta for each swipe they take.

Also, by US not having a club open, they lose out on other sources of revenue (ie United Club members, Star Alliance Gold members, AmEx customers) as well as not being able to brand the club in their own style. Also, for US members, it's merely a place to relax - a major part of the club is agents to assist in IROPS and I highly doubt that there will be a US agent in the Sky Club to assist US customers.

All that and you risk losing your elites, for instance if a US elite feels that the Delta SkyClub offers them more and now with DL having more flights to more places than US, they might think about switching.
 
BOACCunard
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:50 pm

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 31):
Because at the end of the (long) day, it's likely going to be far cheaper for US to operate their own club rather than pay Delta for each swipe they take.

Yes, but then why keep paying DL for access to the SkyClub after US has built its own club?
Getting There is Half the Fun!
 
boswashsprstar
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:28 pm

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 28):

Don't forget one weekly (Saturday) to PHX!  
 
boswashsprstar
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:32 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 26):
Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 30):

I would not be shocked if US never built the club, but it would not be so odd for them to build it even with the limited presence they'll now have. New York is a major business travel market for every airline after all, which is why both pre-merger Continental and pre-merger Northwest had small clubs at LGA despite a presence similar in scale to what US Airways will become.

The real question is why Delta left the old Northwest club open in Terminal D even after renovating the old Delta club.
 
HPRamper
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:34 pm

Quoting boswashsprstar (Reply 35):
I would not be shocked if US never built the club, but it would not be so odd for them to build it even with the limited presence they'll now have.

US just opened a club at RDU. I'm pretty sure they are still much bigger at LGA than at RDU.
 
papatango
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:47 pm

What gates in terminal C will Usair use starting Sun?
 
boswashsprstar
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:24 pm

Quoting papatango (Reply 37):

Delta just sent out an email to frequent flyers explaining the new system and saying they'll be at gates C15-C24. Presumably US uses the rest for now, and cuts back further in a few months. Though I also suspect there are some missing numbers in the count up to 24 at that terminal.
 
boberito6589
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:22 am

Quoting papatango (Reply 37):
What gates in terminal C will Usair use starting Sun?

US and US Express will be at gates 1-12
US Shuttle will be using gates 7,8,9, and 10

Shuttle passenger check-in will move to the current international ticket counter.
Curbside check-in will move to the central curb position.
All baggage claims will be handled from the current mainline BSO.

[Edited 2012-03-23 17:41:10]
 
Cubsrule
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:29 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 36):
US just opened a club at RDU. I'm pretty sure they are still much bigger at LGA than at RDU.

US has clubs in cities like GSO and BUF. I'm not sure GSO even has mainline service. LGA will have a club.
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deltairlines
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:26 am

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 33):
Yes, but then why keep paying DL for access to the SkyClub after US has built its own club?

They won't. As of tomorrow, the US Airways Club becomes a Delta Sky Club and US has to give cash to Delta for each swipe.

There is an interim period in which US won't have a club for its members and they will pay Delta so that their members have a lounge. Once the new US club is opened, US won't pay Delta for anything at LaGuardia, including club access for members.
 
PIEAvantiP180
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:40 am

If US and AA tie the knot does AA have enough gates to combine both operations in the main terminal and let DL consolidate in C and D. The MAT can be taken over by another airline if needed.

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 41):

What a great way to introduce all the US high value clients to the DL product. I'm sure some of them are FF members in both programs, but it might persuade the minds of those who are not.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:48 pm

Giant Delta sign has been added to Terminal C. US Shuttle Sign is down.

Signs have been changed all over the airport and along the Grand Central Pkwy.

"US Airways Terminal" is no more


"If US and AA tie the knot does AA have enough gates to combine both operations in the main terminal and let DL consolidate in C and D. The MAT can be taken over by another airline if needed."

The CTB is garbage. Where AA is, they have done interim fixes to make it somewhat nicer...but you can not compare that to the modern, spacious gates where US will be.

Not enough gates in either location for the combined operation btw
 
deltairlines
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:22 pm

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 42):
If US and AA tie the knot does AA have enough gates to combine both operations in the main terminal and let DL consolidate in C and D. The MAT can be taken over by another airline if needed.

If AA and US merge, then you might see a reshuffling go on where US moves to CTB-C and UA moves to the current US gates.

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 42):
What a great way to introduce all the US high value clients to the DL product. I'm sure some of them are FF members in both programs, but it might persuade the minds of those who are not.

True to an extent, but many of those customers might have switched anyway now that the nonstops are pretty much gone. The fact that Delta is the one operating the flights to the BUFs and GSOs of the world now is what is going to drive HVC movement; there will be some willing to do a LGA-CLT-GSO, but more will likely go for the nonstop.
 
WNCrew
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:41 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Thread starter):
WN taking over most/all of Concourse B.

Most of Concourse B in Terminal B right?

LGA is a bid confusing to me as the Terminal/Concourse labeling system utilizes ONLY letters.
There are Terminals A-B-C and D and then within Terminal B are Concourses A,B,C and D. That's kind of redundant to me.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
nycdave
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:29 am

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 44):
If AA and US merge, then you might see a reshuffling go on where US moves to CTB-C and UA moves to the current US gates.

There's a lot of ways you could shuffle stuff around, if you had an AA/US merger. They'd definitely need 2 full piers in the CTB. US moving out of C would free up enough gates that DL could move shuttle ops from the MAT there, to finally have everything under one roof (once the walkway's done). But then who would use the MAT?

Meanwhile, I'm sure UA would love to finally get things consolidated into one pier in the CTB...

Hmm. Maybe one of the LCCs would be interested in the MAT as a dedicated facility? WN? B6?
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: LGA Airline Shuffle

Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:45 am

Quoting nycdave (Reply 46):
There's a lot of ways you could shuffle stuff around, if you had an AA/US merger. They'd definitely need 2 full piers in the CTB. US moving out of C would free up enough gates that DL could move shuttle ops from the MAT there, to finally have everything under one roof (once the walkway's done). But then who would use the MAT?

Would be nice but sort of a non-starter an why you see it wasn't a huge deal when the plans changed and DL remained in the MAT. There are no legal connections between the Shuttle flights and the rest of the DL system so there's never really been a need for both to be connected in any way. In the future'm sure it will be looked at, though.
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