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TWA772LR
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AS Longhaul?

Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:37 am

AS is expanding rapidly in the US. Is there a chance they could hop on over to Asia, or even Europe? I know they have tons of codeshares with tons of airlines but if flying, say, SEA/ANC-NRT, why connect on DL or AA when AS can do it themselves and possibly make more money? I know origin and destination traffic to/from NRT wouldn't be large enough from SEA or ANC but it is just hypothetical.

I do acknowledge AS would need long haul planes to do this, I would say A330 but as they are all Boeing I would say 787. They can do routes such as ANC/SEA-ICN/SVO/NRT/ and maybe LHR and CDG. Also, is there a chance they could return to the Russian Far East?
Beauty is watching a 787 bank to make a short final. Bliss is watching that 787 with a good beer. Nirvana is all of that with a beautiful woman on your side.
 
chrisair
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:33 am

What's with all the AS threads recently?

Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):
Is there a chance they could hop on over to Asia, or even Europe?

Yes there is. There's also a chance I could win the Powerball lottery next week. Neither are likely to happen.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:45 am

There is always a chance that anything will happen. And aren't there rumors that AS will go back to the Russian Far East? (yes I know how unreliable rumors are but there is still that glimmer of hope)

Quoting chrisair (Reply 1):

What if you actually do win the power ball?  
Beauty is watching a 787 bank to make a short final. Bliss is watching that 787 with a good beer. Nirvana is all of that with a beautiful woman on your side.
 
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rotating14
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:03 am

I could see flights over to NRT or ICN but thats it really (hypothetically speaking). But I can't see AS going long haul at the moment nor in the near future. Their focus I believe is securing the west coast segment (LAS, LAX, San Jose, SLC, SEA, ANC, Spokane ect) with their 737's and then maybe venturing on the east cost by offering more trans-con flights to and from SEA and/or LAX. As far as orders are concerned, they'll pull the trigger on the MAX later on.
 
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rotating14
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:05 am

When did they ever go to Russia??
 
wedgetail737
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:11 am

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 4):
When did they ever go to Russia??

AS flew to Russia during the 1980's and 1990's first using 727 equipment, then with MD-80 aircraft. Both Aeroflot and Mavial Magadan Airlines flew to ANC and SEA from Russia's Far East using Tu-154 and IL-62 aircraft.
 
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rotating14
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:19 am

Interesting news, never would've thunk it.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 5):
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:55 pm

Quoting chrisair (Reply 1):
What's with all the AS threads recently?

I notice that too.   I like it since they are my favorite airline and arguably one of the most interesting.

Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):
AS is expanding rapidly in the US. Is there a chance they could hop on over to Asia, or even Europe?

I don't think that is in AS's business model. While companies need to grow and make necessary changes, like I said in another thread, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". AS has a profitable niche, as does WN and G4. That's like why doesn't Microsoft start building cars. That's not their business model. AS flies one type of airline to North American destinations. They'd need a whole new fleet type, and breaking into somewhat of a saturated market, should they decide to fly overseas.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 2):
And aren't there rumors that AS will go back to the Russian Far East? (yes I know how unreliable rumors are but there is still that glimmer of hope)

Is this right? I haven't heard it. Any insiders like Tom care to confirm this? I can see the 737-700 being a suitable airplane should AS try to jump back in that market.
 
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Tomassjc
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:02 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 7):
Is this right? I haven't heard it. Any insiders like Tom care to confirm this? I can see the 737-700 being a suitable airplane should AS try to jump back in that market



Sorry Boeing...haven't heard a word!
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doug_or
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:57 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 5):
AS flew to Russia during the 1980's and 1990's first using 727 equipment, then with MD-80 aircraft. Both Aeroflot and Mavial Magadan Airlines flew to ANC and SEA from Russia's Far East using Tu-154 and IL-62 aircraft.

I believe they also went earlier with the Convair jets, but Google seems to disagree. It looks like they used 707s to run charters in the early 70s.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:03 pm

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 9):

I believe they also went earlier with the Convair jets, but Google seems to disagree. It looks like they used 707s to run charters in the early 70s.

AS never served Russia with scheduled service until the aforementioned MD-80 service. I've heard too that AS did charters to places like Moscow in the 1970s, but not aware their one 880 or one 990 ever ventured out of the US, which of course then consisted of the state of Alaska and SEA.

I'm not surprised at Tom's previous comment. As much as we'd like to see it, it sounds like AS has no plans to resume Far East Russia anytime soon.
 
cschleic
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:11 pm

They would have to add another type of plane for Asia or Europe, for a very specific route, and that's not their MO. Huge capital cost for potential big losses and nowhere else to use the asset if the initial routes don't work. And they don't need to....with all the partnerships and code sharing they have, they get the benefit of feeding traffic to DL and KE and AF and KL and CX and AA and BA and..... they don't need to.
 
Viscount724
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:18 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 5):
Quoting rotating14 (Reply 4):
When did they ever go to Russia??

AS flew to Russia during the 1980's and 1990's first using 727 equipment, then with MD-80 aircraft. Both Aeroflot and Mavial Magadan Airlines flew to ANC and SEA from Russia's Far East using Tu-154 and IL-62 aircraft.

Scroll to about the 6:40 mark in the following excerpt from the 1997 BBC series "Full Circle with Michael Palin" (of Monty Python fame) covering his trip around the Pacific rim. Shows his group checking in for the AS flight from ANC to PKC (Petropavlovsk).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5o-BekOlb0
 
rjm777ual
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:35 pm

It's possible they could do what UA does with their Guam- Tokyo 737 route, but that's about it.
Greetings from Dulles!
 
LGWflyer
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:15 am

If they did decide to try out flights to Europe, which aircraft would they most likely go for? B767's? Or could they even try Airbus for their longhaul fleet and get some A332's...? A sort of similar idea to HA.
3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
 
hiflyeras
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:21 am

There was a little talk 4-5 years ago about maybe going back into the Russian Far East but nothing came of it. I think the rumor stemmed from the fact that we finally had the right equipment with the 737-800 ETOPS. The MD-80 from ANC-KHV and on to VVO was really a stretch and the infrastructure in Russia was much to be desired.

I would NOT be surprised to see AS flying the 787 ten years from today from points out of SEA and ANC to the far East and northern Europe. I've always thought ANC-NRT, ICN and HKG and ANC-LHR, CDG, AMS in the summers would be packed....and in the winters the extra capacity would be easily utilized to out of SEA to Hawaii and Mexico. You could even still offer 2x daily in the winter out of ANC. Service out ot SEA to LGW, OSL, NRT and HKG would do also do quite well.

Alaska could easily model themselves after Icelandair and be quite successful had they the desire.
 
Dash8Driver16
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:19 am

I wouldn't be surprised to see Alaska consider a long haul route from SEA-NRT if UA ever drops that route.
 
neutronstar73
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:29 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):

Why would you, out the box, say Alaska Airlines should use A330 for long haul? That seems particularly odd since they are all Boeing now, and the 787 is out there which beats the A330 on all counts. 777 may be a bit too large but 787 would be perfect for them.

A330 is fine but on the way out. 787 is the way ahead for them

[Edited 2012-03-11 20:31:06]
 
Rockinflyer
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:31 am

I doubt very much that AS would go for an Airbus over Boeing. Perhaps a 767 of some sort? I don't see a 787 either unless it was nonstop SEA-SIN or something like that.
AA,AC,AF,BA,BN,BW,CO,DL,FL,F9,HA,KL,NA,PA,RW,TW,UA,WA,WN
 
JayinKitsap
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:41 am

WN could order a dozen 380s also.....

AS is a courtesan that has for years served NW, Delta, AA, and others well without needing a ring or a PreNupt. Sure Delta and AA get miffed at times with AS slips another route into what was their stronghold. But it has given many airlines the routes and service to a lot of markets without the expense.

AS is also profitable, a rarity in the aviation business, why would they suddenly grab into longhaul and compete against the very customer that has been their sugar daddy.
 
flyingcat
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:51 am

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 3):
Their focus I believe is securing the west coast segment (LAS, LAX, San Jose, SLC, SEA, ANC, Spokane ect) with their 737's and then maybe venturing on the east cost by offering more trans-con flights to and from SEA and/or LAX.

LAX??

This would certainly be out of the blue!
 
ASFlyer
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:55 am

Quoting JayinKitsap (Reply 19):
AS is also profitable, a rarity in the aviation business, why would they suddenly grab into longhaul and compete against the very customer that has been their sugar daddy.

AS has proven that they will not let the competition from their partners deter them from beginning service on a particular route. They have worked cooperatively with their partners to the extent the law allows on many routes but much of their success over the last ten years has been by adding service to routes that were previously served by their partners. BOS, EWR, ATL, MSP, ORD, DFW, IAH, MIA, HNL were all routes that were served by partners at the time that AS began service on them. On some routes the partners backed out and others they exist peacefully on. I see no reason why adding service to some secondary destinations oversees, bypassing their competitors hubs, wouldn't work. AS has tapped out most of the low hanging fruit domestically, they are going to have to look at ways to continue their successful expansion in order to remain profitable.
 
chrisair
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:33 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 2):
What if you actually do win the power ball?  

I'll buy back some of that Alaska stock I sold back in 2008 and then buy this website. 
 
smoot4208
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:45 am

I think they could do well to a place like CPH.
 
hiflyeras
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:53 pm

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 23):
I think they could do well to a place like CPH.

Agreed....SEA-CPH was an old SAS route that did very well. They flew it for years with a stretch DC-8 before the DC-10 and 767. I remember sitting in the very back of an SK DC-8 stretch from OSL-LHR, watching the fuselage bend and twist on the take-off roll. That was one long, skinny aluminum tube!
 
lhpdx
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:33 pm

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 3):

PDX?! I'm sure we'll see some growth as well...............................
 
point2point
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:47 pm

I think that if AS ever does go long-haul, their first route needs to be SEA-DBX, with an A380. After all, somebody needs to teach that nasty ol' Emirates a thing or two about muscling in on everyone's turf............

(    )
 
hiflyeras
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:57 pm

Quoting lhpdx (Reply 25):
PDX?! I'm sure we'll see some growth as well

To a point. We'll see AS apply for PDX-DCA by tomorrow's deadline. BOS and ORD are paying the bills but PDX-MCO was tough. I'd love to see it return but y'all need to take your kids to WDW!  
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:16 pm

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 27):
We'll see AS apply for PDX-DCA by tomorrow's deadline.


Will AS apply for SJC-DCA also, as rumored?

I heard that PDX-MCO was full, but yields were poor. Is that right?
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:10 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 28):
Will AS apply for SJC-DCA also, as rumored?

Not that I've heard of; supposedly PDX-DCA and SAN-DCA are it.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 28):
I heard that PDX-MCO was full, but yields were poor. Is that right?

Correct, from what I've been told.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:19 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 29):
Not that I've heard of; supposedly PDX-DCA and SAN-DCA are it.

That's interesting. So AS is turning more to SAN as a new focus city, rather than SJC? I would have expected any new California long-hauls (ORD, EWR, DCA, etc) would have been from SJC. What's up with that?
 
AS739BSI
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:57 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 7):
What's with all the AS threads recently?

Certain arm-chair CEOs wanting them to merge with AA or US. Why would AS want to expand into an uncertain long-haul market? It is like if B6 were to expand into the Midwest. It is outside the niche market. Unless AS could make serious $, and was wanting more independence from DL, I wouldn't expand long-haul. Also again, we do not have the capacity at the South Satellite FIS since the POS screwed up with the A concourse rebuild. SEA benefits DL and AA by giving connections to Alaska and the PNW. Why screw that up? Would it benefit AS to be fully independent of AA and DL for connecting traffic and codeshares? I don't think so.
 
chrisair
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:41 pm

Quoting AS739BSI (Reply 31):
Certain arm-chair CEOs wanting them to merge with AA or US.

People have been saying this since I started flying AS in 1985 (back when there were 5 FAs on the 727s and you got a full, hot or cold meal in coach on the PDX-SJC flight). Only it wasn't just AA or US back then. It was also Western, Delta, Eastern (!!!), Northwest, Braniff I and II, and so on.
 
cschleic
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:22 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 29):
Not that I've heard of; supposedly PDX-DCA and SAN-DCA are it.

Press release posted today. PDX and SAN to DCA.

http://splash.alaskasworld.com/Newsr...s/ASstories/AS_20120312_105958.asp
 
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NC1844V
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RE: AS Longhaul?

Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:44 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 7):
I don't think that is in AS's business model. While companies need to grow and make necessary changes, like I said in another thread, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". AS has a profitable niche, as does WN and G4. That's like why doesn't Microsoft start building cars. That's not their business model. AS flies one type of airline to North American destinations. They'd need a whole new fleet type, and breaking into somewhat of a saturated market, should they decide to fly overseas.

You are correct. Alaska Airlines has been able to remain profitable during the hard times, due to just that, they stick to what they know. They are basically the only airline that serves Alaska other than Anchorage/Fairbanks. AS takes the Alaskan People to the places in the Lower 48 and Mexico that they want to go as well as connecting those people to the international routes. I don't think we will see much change in AS's ways of thinking for the foreseeable future. It will be North American Routes and the 737 for many years to come. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Steven

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