JU068
Posts: 2094
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The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:35 am

Good morning,


More bad news from the world of European civil aviaiton. The national carrier of Bosnia has cancelled all of their flights until March 16, when supposedly it will resume flights to Istanbul.

The airline had already announced the cancellation of its two seasonal flights from Sarajevo to Gothenburg and Stockholm, only weeks after it had cancelled their flight to Amsterdam.

Talks between the airline, the government of Bosnia and the Turkish embassy in Sarajevo broke down earlier this week. Bosnian newspaper reported that the problem occured when Turkish Airlines requested from the Bosnian government to cover the debt the airline had accumulated. Turkish Airlines had stated that they have decided to take over the airline in 2008 not to make it profitable but rather to help it overcome the difficulties back then (God bless politics and aviation).

The government of Bosnia has stated that it no longer has the funds to finance the airline, and it has ordered them to draft a new business plan for 2012, only then can the talks continue with TK.

It is also important to note that two of JA's Atr-72s are currently in service in Germany, while their A319 has been parked in Istanbul since February 27.

The current situation in Air B&H has nothing to do with the current situation in the world and or, as some would claim, the end of regional airlines in Europe. The currently disasterous situation in the airline is due to years of mismanagement and a lack of a long term strategy. Best proof of this is that the Bosnian government had asked for a 2012 business plan in mid-March 2012. This means that the airline operated for three months with no strategy or plans for the future.
Bosnia is a poor country, which does not even have funds to support its own carrier. It seems wiser to close the airline and allow regional airlines to take care of passengers flying into/out of Sarajevo.

http://exyuaviation.blogspot.com/
 
BestWestern
Posts: 7039
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RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:27 am

With Olympic airlines cutting all western european services, the Malev bankruptcy, and the problems with Adria and lack of investment in JAT, there is probably the scale for a combined Balkan carrier operating regional and short haul services. However politics and rivalry will never let this happen.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
PezySPU
Posts: 281
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RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:37 am

Quoting ju068 (Thread starter):
their A319 has been parked in Istanbul since February 27.

Seems it will be flying for TK again:

"THY A319 TC-JLR (3142) is due to enter service with the carrier having come to the end of its lease to B&H A/L on 27/2."

http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace...ne-scene-week-ending-10-03-12.aspx

Quoting ju068 (Thread starter):
a lack of a long term strategy.

Long term strategy? They don't even have short-term strategy. Their management is clueless about running a grocery store, let alone an airline. You pointed it out correctly, this one has nothing to do with the decline of regional airlines in Europe, economic situation or fuel prices.

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 1):
With Olympic airlines cutting all western european services, the Malev bankruptcy, and the problems with Adria and lack of investment in JAT, there is probably the scale for a combined Balkan carrier operating regional and short haul services. However politics and rivalry will never let this happen.

Correct, sounds great on paper, but that just won't work in the region. Some consolidation might occur, but definitely not anything similar to, for example, the old JAT.

[Edited 2012-03-11 01:42:50]
 
JU068
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:23 am

RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:01 am

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 1):
However politics and rivalry will never let this happen.

Exactly, it would seem great in theory but I doubt they would ever agree on the name or the structure of the airline. I believe that in the ex-Yugoslav region there will be two airlines left, Croatia Airlines and Jat Airways.
At this point Air B&H is as good as dead and Adria owes €150.000.000 to various banks, not to mention that Montenegro Airlines is struggling to make ends meet.
If Croatia Airlines can succeed in striking a good deal with the unions it will finally be able to operate without strikes. On the other hand Jat Airways has finally managed to pull its act together and effectively face the challenges brough about by the Open Skies agreement. It is far from where it should be, but at least the airline is somewhat moving in the right direction.

Quoting PezySPU (Reply 2):

Seems it will be flying for TK again:

"THY A319 TC-JLR (3142) is due to enter service with the carrier having come to the end of its lease to B&H A/L on 27/2."

I guess this goes to prove that Turkish Airlines has given up on Air B&H for good. I just wonder what will happen with the agreement signed where TK has to bring to jet aircraft into JA's fleet.
The whole existence of Air B&H should be used to show people what not to do when running an airline.
 
Tupolev160
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RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:10 am

Do you maybe know in what language the Bosnian government representatives and TK managers speak when they meet?
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
JU068
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RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:14 am

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 4):
Do you maybe know in what language the Bosnian government representatives and TK managers speak when they meet?

Well I guess that the Turkish delegation has a translator, doubt that it is in English.
 
BestWestern
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RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:27 am

Quoting ju068 (Reply 3):
On the other hand Jat Airways has finally managed to pull its act together and effectively face the challenges brough about by the Open Skies agreement.

Time will tell. The challenges were there long before Open Skies. Time now for a new aircraft order, and a sustainable growth plan on the back of these new aircraft.


I also forgot to mention Macedonian airlines - with their fantasic livery. Hard to believe they are four years bankrupt.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
JU068
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:23 am

RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:35 am

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 6):
Time will tell. The challenges were there long before Open Skies. Time now for a new aircraft order, and a sustainable growth plan on the back of these new aircraft.

Of course there were, the airline was mismanaged from 1947. However the Open Skies did force the airline to adapt its operations to the new business environment.
Though their aicraft are old, the entire B737-300 fleet got refurbished interiors and new engines. Recently all of the Atr-72 fleet got brand new interiors as well (featuring new grey leather seats).

They have also launched a new frequent flyer programme, their flights are arranged in such a way in order to cater for the needs of both business and tourist travellers. Most importantly Jat has gone more agressively against its competitors on some of the most important markets. Moscow will be increased from 7 to 10 weekly flights, Paris from 7 to 12 while flights to London will be operated 11 times per week. Not to mention their more than successful agreement with KLM, which enabled the airline to have direct flights to AMS.
In the first half of the previous decade Jat would simply withdraw from a market where they would face tougher competition. Today they are actually strking back.

Like I said before, they are far from they should be but at least things seem to be moving in the right direction. Unfortunately for the airline, it will not see profit (which it actually makes) until the government stops encouraging corruption.
 
Tupolev160
Posts: 405
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RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:22 am

I thought the Bosnian government could speak some Turkish at least...
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
BestWestern
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RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:30 am

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 8):
I thought the Bosnian government could speak some Turkish at least...

Well, it seems they dont understand the word 'invoice' in any language!
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
bjorn14
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RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:21 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 1):
there is probably the scale for a combined Balkan carrier operating regional and short haul services. However politics and rivalry will never let this happen.

Yep, this will work just ask SK how it works.

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 6):
I also forgot to mention Macedonian airlines - with their fantasic livery

Any pics?
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
jetsetter629
Posts: 392
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RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:48 pm

OS seems the best poised to serve the Balkans. With Dash 8-400s, they can serve the smaller cities like Podgorica, Sarajevo, Pristina, Tirana, etc. VIE is in a good spot to connect with the rest of Western Europe
 
BestWestern
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Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:04 pm

Quoting jetsetter629 (Reply 11):
VIE is in a good spot to connect with the rest of Western Europe

Not with Austrian costs though.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 10):
Any pics?

One of the few airline liveries I have ever turned around to have a second look at - really worked on the CR9

You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
JU068
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:23 am

RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:34 pm

Quoting jetsetter629 (Reply 11):
Quoting bestwestern (Reply 12):
Not with Austrian costs though.

Exactly, Austrian Airlines used to charge €250 for a 55 minute flight from Belgrade to Vienna. As soon as Niki entered the market it dropped to €99.
 
s4popo
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:36 am

RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:01 pm

I guess banning alcohol on all B&H flights was a brilliant business decision.  

That should tell you the mentality of the people managing this airline.
 
PIEAvantiP180
Posts: 486
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:04 am

RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:49 pm

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 4):

Not really, i'm from there and don't know a lick of it and have newer heard of anybody else that does either. I hope they don't stop flying, my mother has a round trip booked from Zurich to Banja Luka after her DL flight brings her there from the states. She was so excited to have found the flight as before we always had to fly to Zagreb. Zagreb is fine but somebody always had to come and pick us up and its still a 3 hour drive home, this way when she lands in Banja Luka she can be home in less then 45 min on a public bus.
 
bjorn14
Posts: 3552
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:11 pm

RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:45 pm

Quoting jetsetter629 (Reply 11):
VIE is in a good spot to connect with the rest of Western Europe

Any other good connecting point for the Balkans?

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 12):
One of the few airline liveries I have ever turned around to have a second look at - really worked on the CR9

Despite the EuroWhite it is sweet. I'm in the 'less is more' school of design
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
TIA
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:42 am

RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:33 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 10):

Yep, this will work just ask SK how it works.

Exactly! It's not politics that prohibit the establishment of a pan-Balkans airline, it's economics. It's not the 80s anymore. The aviation landscape has changed and barriers to entry have evaporated. Profitable routes get cherry picked by LCCs and the days when govts subsidized airlines are gone. If a private airline wants to focus solely on the Balkans and have a central hub, I'm sure it will be more than welcome, especially in the current economic times.

Quoting jetsetter629 (Reply 11):
With Dash 8-400s, they can serve the smaller cities like Podgorica, Sarajevo, Pristina, Tirana, etc. VIE is in a good spot to connect with the rest of Western Europe

They already serve these cities more than daily and most of the time use larger planes. Heck, they've even used 777s at PRN in the Summer.

Quoting s4popo (Reply 14):
I guess banning alcohol on all B&H flights was a brilliant business decision.
That should tell you the mentality of the people managing this airline.

I might be wrong, but I don't think that ever came to be. Although given the limited operation, I doubt B&H catering was as extensive as to include alcohol (and that's assuming they had catering to start with).

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 16):
Any other good connecting point for the Balkans?

Well depends where in Balkans, but MUC is probably the second best connecting point after VIE.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 7039
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:21 pm

Quoting s4popo (Reply 14):
I guess banning alcohol on all B&H flights was a brilliant business decision.

Why is Alcohol so important on a 2 hour flight? If that was their only issue.

Quoting ju068 (Reply 13):
Exactly, Austrian Airlines used to charge €250 for a 55 minute flight from Belgrade to Vienna. As soon as Niki entered the market it dropped to €99.

And no doubt OS is losing money at €99.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
JU068
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:23 am

RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:17 am

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 16):
Any other good connecting point for the Balkans?

Well I do not know about the other cities in the Balkans but as far as Belgrade goes, if you are travelling to Asia or the Middle East then you either fly on TK via IST or on flydubai via DXB. If you are heading to Western Europe then it's either Vienna, Zurich or Munich (Frankfurt is not so convenient anymore). Recently Lot has become a good way to travel if you are heading to the Baltics or the Nordic countries.
For those travelling to the Americas then it is mostly between Munich/Frankfurt or Amsterdam.

Quoting TIA (Reply 17):

I might be wrong, but I don't think that ever came to be. Although given the limited operation, I doubt B&H catering was as extensive as to include alcohol (and that's assuming they had catering to start with).

I do not think it was alcohol they banned but rather pork meat.

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 18):
And no doubt OS is losing money at €99.

Exactly, plus they are using their Fokker 70/100s to Belgrade while their competition uses turboprops. They are at a disadvantage from the very start.
They do operate up to 4 daily flights so i guess that they are not bleeding money on the route.
 
Boeing744
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RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:37 am

This is quite unfortunate news for Bosnia. Does anyone have any expectations about what may happen in terms of other airlines serving the country? Could we expect to see some new routes? For example, perhaps AMS on KL?

I am going to have 3-4 days free at the end of my course in Berlin this summer, and was planning to fly somewhere. Sarajevo was on my shortlist, but it is already tricky enough to get to. The best price I have found that works with my dates has been 200 euros on OS with a night in VIE. I really wish there was a bit more competition into SJJ !

Quoting TIA (Reply 17):
They already serve these cities more than daily and most of the time use larger planes. Heck, they've even used 777s at PRN in the Summer

Wait, seriously? Austrian has used the 777 to Pristina, or am I reading this wrong?
 
s4popo
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:36 am

RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:51 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 18):
Why is Alcohol so important on a 2 hour flight? If that was their only issue.

It's not. I was just trying to illustrate management's lack of priorities.
 
TIA
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:42 am

RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:48 pm

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 20):
Wait, seriously? Austrian has used the 777 to Pristina, or am I reading this wrong?

Correct. Not on a regular basis, but as a sub in times of high demand.
Here is a video I found online:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfCXpSDxarw
 
Boeing744
Posts: 1735
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:27 pm

RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:38 pm

Quoting TIA (Reply 22):

Correct. Not on a regular basis, but as a sub in times of high demand.

Wow, impressive. It's amazing that a city of only about 200,000 people (as per Wikipedia) can support even irregular 777 service.

Now why is it that Pristina generates enough traffic for OS to warrant a 777, whereas Sarajevo only gets two narrowbodies (or even turboprops) a day from Vienna? Moreover, PRN seems to have quite the range of other European airlines.

What is the economic difference between the two cities? Is it partly because of the travel restrictions over land from Serbia?
 
Tupolev160
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:07 pm

RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:10 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 19):
For those travelling to the Americas then it is mostly between Munich/Frankfurt or Amsterdam.

Besides those i would say FCO is the best/cheapest transfer point from BEG to the Americas, South America more precisely (like Buenos Aires), with Wizz Air offering cheap connections to FCO from BEG. Even from Asia, good deals can be found to FCO, FCO having one of the lowest taxes amongst major airports in Europe. It's always 100-200$ cheaper than Austrian/German airports, counting the distance obviously.

Quoting TIA (Reply 22):
Not on a regular basis, but as a sub in times of high demand.

I don't think a 777 can even take-off from PRN if full, there is not enough runway lenght, when have you seen a 777 at PRN? Technically is just not possible, unless the aircraft is half-empty. The 777 requires more than 3000m of runway length when full.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
Tupolev160
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:07 pm

RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:18 pm

Quoting TIA (Reply 22):
Here is a video I found online:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfCXp...Dxarw

10min video to show 2 planes... One thing is for sure, there are more flags at that airport than planes. The 772 to land there had to hold no cargo and very little fuel cause at MTOW no way it can service PRN.

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 23):
Wow, impressive. It's amazing that a city of only about 200,000 people (as per Wikipedia) can support even irregular 777 service.

Doesn't matter how many people it has, there are as many drug dealers and mafia in PRN as ordinary people, enough to fill a 772 for sure. Those transit through VIE to the US.

[Edited 2012-03-12 16:21:56]

[Edited 2012-03-12 16:23:47]

[Edited 2012-03-12 16:26:04]
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
bennett123
Posts: 7441
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:05 am

http://www.bhairlines.ba/english/o_nama/flota.php

IMO, having a fleet of 4, which includes 3 completely different types does not help.
 
JU068
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:23 am

RE: The End Is Near For B&H Airlines

Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:59 am

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 23):
Now why is it that Pristina generates enough traffic for OS to warrant a 777, whereas Sarajevo only gets two narrowbodies (or even turboprops) a day from Vienna? Moreover, PRN seems to have quite the range of other European airlines.

Because the Albanian diaspora is much greater than the Bosnian one. Also, Bosnia is considerably closer by road than Pristina is, which means that a lot of Bosnians decide to travel by car.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 24):
Besides those i would say FCO is the best/cheapest transfer point from BEG to the Americas, South America more precisely (like Buenos Aires), with Wizz Air offering cheap connections to FCO from BEG. Even from Asia, good deals can be found to FCO, FCO having one of the lowest taxes amongst major airports in Europe. It's always 100-200$ cheaper than Austrian/German airports, counting the distance obviously.

Of course, I was referring travelling on a single ticket. Though going on Jat and Alitalia can also be cheaper than transiting elsewhere.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 26):

IMO, having a fleet of 4, which includes 3 completely different types does not help.

Like we mentioned before, that airline is a joke and an embarassement. They had only two routes which were constantly operated, Zurich and Istanbul.

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