MAH4546
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Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:14 pm

Gol has applied with the Department of Transportation to operate daily service between Miami and Sao Paulo, via Caracas, effective 29 June 2012. No schedule has been provided to DOT.

http://airlineinfo.com/ost14/ost031212.html#gol31212 (subscription required)
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B757capt
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:41 pm

I think this is pretty smart. I am always glad to see GOL expanding.
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C010T3
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:34 pm

It's weird that they mention CCS as a technical stop.
 
CNForever
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:37 pm

Maybe Venezuela hasn´t granted the traffic rights yet.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:40 pm

I believe Venezuela is either the first or second most restricted country in South America.
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wedgetail737
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:59 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 4):
I believe Venezuela is either the first or second most restricted country in South America.

Venezuela never used to be like that until the Chavez Administration took over. During the early 1990's, EA (later AA), Viasa, Avensa, Servivensa and not too much later...the introduction of Aeropostal. There was plenty of service to Venezuela.

I think if Hugo Chavez wasn't so anti-American and would ease up on trade between us and them, we would see lots of service between the US and Venezuela. Venezuela has plenty of airlines that want to serve the US.
 
SuperCaravelle
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:17 am

That said, other foreign airlines already operate with full fifth freedom rights between CCS and MIA.
 
A388
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:36 am

Quoting SuperCaravelle (Reply 6):
That said, other foreign airlines already operate with full fifth freedom rights between CCS and MIA.

As far as I know only LAN flies the CCS-MIA route. Which other foreign airlines fly CCS-MIA?

A388
 
C010T3
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:54 am

There is now a press release for the flight. Here's the proposed schedule:

G3 7XXX 737 1-345-7 GRU 0800 1130 CCS 1210 MIA 1610
G3 7XXX 737 1-345-7 MIA 1800 2100 CCS 2300* GRU 0615+1

*omitted, but I compared it to the current schedule at CCS.

http://www.mzweb.com.br/gol2009/web/arquivos/Release%20USA_eng.pdf

------------------------------------------------

I was thinking about this schedule and it doesn't make sense. They made a mistake. I presume the schedule will be the following:

G3 7XXX 737 1-345-7 GRU 0800 1230 CCS 1310 MIA 1710
G3 7XXX 737 1-345-7 MIA 1900 2200 CCS 2300 GRU 0615+1

[Edited 2012-03-13 19:50:56]
 
C010T3
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:14 am

Gol's Investor Relations team really can't work with time changes:

The HOTRAN request has been just released. The schedule is the following:

G3 7700 738 1-345-7 GRU 0800 1230 CCS 1310 MIA 1710
G3 7701 738 1-345-7 MIA 1900 2200 CCS 2240 GRU 0615+1

http://www2.anac.gov.br/hotran/
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:40 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 7):
LAN flies the CCS-MIA route

LA SCL-GYE-CCS-MIA; 1x weekly with 763.
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A388
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:46 am

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 10):
LA SCL-GYE-CCS-MIA; 1x weekly with 763.

Thanks for the schedule SJOtoLIR. Why is LAN only flying the route once weekly? Seems very unattractive, can't they get more frequencies from the aviation authorities?

A388
 
MAH4546
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:01 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 11):
Thanks for the schedule SJOtoLIR. Why is LAN only flying the route once weekly? Seems very unattractive, can't they get more frequencies from the aviation authorities?

MIACCS is 2x weekly. Once weekly it continues to GYE before SCL; once weekly it goes non-stop to SCL.

LA operates a daily daylight flight MIASCL that stops in either CCS, BOG, CUN or PUJ depending on the day.
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A388
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:18 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
MIACCS is 2x weekly. Once weekly it continues to GYE before SCL; once weekly it goes non-stop to SCL.

LA operates a daily daylight flight MIASCL that stops in either CCS, BOG, CUN or PUJ depending on the day.

So CCS-MIA is once weekly and MIA-CCS is twice weekly? Does this type of routing follow demand or why has LAN chosen such a routing? Can they add more frequencies on the CCS-MIA route?

A388
 
MAH4546
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:33 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 13):
So CCS-MIA is once weekly and MIA-CCS is twice weekly? Does this type of routing follow demand or why has LAN chosen such a routing? Can they add more frequencies on the CCS-MIA route?

No, it's twice weekly in both directions.

I don't know if the government would allow it to add more flights, but CCS is simply a stop on the daylight MIASCL flight using a plane that would otherwise be parked on the Tarmac at MIA. It's all about utilization.
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A388
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:41 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
No, it's twice weekly in both directions.

I don't know if the government would allow it to add more flights, but CCS is simply a stop on the daylight MIASCL flight using a plane that would otherwise be parked on the Tarmac at MIA. It's all about utilization.

Okay thanks for the explanation. With GOL potentially starting a MIA route from CCS, let's see how LAN will react.

A388
 
2travel2know2
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:46 pm

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 9):
G3 7700 738 1-345-7 GRU 0800 1230 CCS 1310 MIA 1710
G3 7701 738 1-345-7 MIA 1900 2200 CCS 2240 GRU 0615+1

These days a 40 minutes stop in CCS seem to be too little time.
It took 30 minutes to get someone to move the jetway to the aircraft last time I arrived at CCS (and the plane had to wait 10 minutes before to move to the gate).
G3 shouldn't have chosen better days to operate that route. Most likely those are the days of the week when there's more demand between CCS and MIA. At least seems G3 is doing its CCS-MIA homework quite well.
Any news as when G3 plans to add the Tuesdays and Saturdays flights?
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C010T3
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:13 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 16):
These days a 40 minutes stop in CCS seem to be too little time.

40 minutes is standard for G3 at CCS.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:42 am

Now waiting for the 2nd route. Their rights do not allow GIG, GRU and VCP as origin in Brazil for the 2nd flight.
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C010T3
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:59 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 18):
Their rights do not allow GIG, GRU and VCP as origin in Brazil for the 2nd flight.

Where did you access that information?
 
797
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:44 am

Interesting.

I am assuming the Venezuelan Authority INAC has pre-approved this route, right?

If they are formally applying with the DOT, it means they would have some sort of certainty that there's the permission for the technical stop in CCS...

If the stop is only technical, and no PAX can be picked up and carried onwards, then no 5th Freedom rights would be needed...

797
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C010T3
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:36 pm

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 2):
It's weird that they mention CCS as a technical stop.

Gol has amended their application including a revenue stop:

http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=DOT-OST-2012-0039-0002

The original application is now publicly available under:

http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=DOT-OST-2012-0039-0001
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:06 pm

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 19):
Where did you access that information?

The letter dd Feb 17 from ANAC to DOT clarifies which type of frequencies they got.
The ones departing from Sao Paulo are among the 105 original frequencies, which now TAM owns 62 and GOL, 7.

They got 7 frequencies from Section 2, paragraph 1 (b), which are restricted to any place other than Rio and Sao Paulo area airports.

They could took 14 from the unrestricted ones, but it seems they do not have plans for a Sao Paulo (or Rio) flight on the second flight. That's why i heard about the CNF-BEL-MIA flight.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
C010T3
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:33 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 22):

The letter dd Feb 17 from ANAC to DOT clarifies which type of frequencies they got.
The ones departing from Sao Paulo are among the 105 original frequencies, which now TAM owns 62 and GOL, 7.

They got 7 frequencies from Section 2, paragraph 1 (b), which are restricted to any place other than Rio and Sao Paulo area airports.

They could took 14 from the unrestricted ones, but it seems they do not have plans for a Sao Paulo (or Rio) flight on the second flight. That's why i heard about the CNF-BEL-MIA flight.

I forgot about reading the letter on the application. It makes sense now.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:43 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 22):
They could took 14 from the unrestricted ones, but it seems they do not have plans for a Sao Paulo (or Rio) flight on the second flight. That's why i heard about the CNF-BEL-MIA flight.

I heard FOR-BEL-MIA.
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incitatus
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:04 pm

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 21):
Gol has amended their application including a revenue stop

Do these GOL people have any idea about what they are doing? If they are going to fly GRU-CCS-MIA, the way to the jackpot is to make sure GRU-MIA is never sold.
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cybergus
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:31 pm

Quoting incitatus (Reply 25):
Do these GOL people have any idea about what they are doing? If they are going to fly GRU-CCS-MIA, the way to the jackpot is to make sure GRU-MIA is never sold.

Believe me they do. They are targeting the CCS-MIA sector which is highly underserved. They are probably applying the same technique as LAN, which is locking around 20% of the seats for the GRU-MIA and the other 80% for the CCS-MIA leg. The route proves itself to be a 'jackpot" as you call it and with lower prices AA and S3 will have to consider on returning to lower fares. Right now CCS-MIA is around 900$ RT which is absurd comparing it to other routes out from CCS.

My best wishes to GOL on this project and a new airline in the market is always welcomed. Now...I have not heard anything from the INAC (Venezuelan Authority)? Did they grant the route already? Is GOL sure about this to happen? INAC is kinda tricky to not say closed to new routes. What's the position of NK on their unapproved FLL-CCS with this? and what about AA on their MIA-VLN???

Cheers

Tavo
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SJOtoLIR
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:51 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 24):
I heard FOR-BEL-MIA.

A very similar route like the extinct JJ FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA with 320 which operated before the dedicated JJ MIA-MAO with 763; both on a daily basis.

Regards.
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Avianca
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:02 am

Quoting cybergus (Reply 26):
Right now CCS-MIA is around 900$ RT which is absurd comparing it to other routes out from CCS.

well have to say in general the fares out of CCS are these days crazy high....cheapest international route i can think of is CCS-POS for 500 USD round trip, this for such a short flight...

Quoting cybergus (Reply 26):
and what about AA on their MIA-VLN

didnt they started it last year?
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cybergus
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:39 am

Hey Andreas!

Fares out of CCS are epic...but MIA has been exaggeratedly expensive. We are talking a route that went from 400$ to 900$ in the snap of a finger after VH dropped the route back in 2008. Since then the market has been taken over with SBA and AA (LAN is not a strong player as they only fly twice a week), without any new comers allowed. I know that NK applied and Venezuela denied them. Then Venezolana tried but DOT denied them. More recently Laser applied and we have not still heard anything from DOT or INAC. At the end MIA was/is/and will be the most preferred destination for Venezuelans as the ties are strong and there is a historic background that will keep them flying back and forth. Lets hope the best for GOL.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 28):
didnt they started it last year?

They were supposed to but at last minute INAC denied the permits and they had to re-route through CCS using buses from VLN to CCS and so forth.

Cheers

Tavo
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LipeGIG
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:25 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 24):
I heard FOR-BEL-MIA.

FOR-BEL sounds even better as there's competition. However, CNF-BEL represents a potential strong domestic route due to the mining ties among both markets and CNF is a large portion of the VFR component on Brazil-US market.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
797
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RE: Gol Applies For MIA-CCS-GRU With DOT

Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:58 am

Quoting cybergus (Reply 29):
we have not still heard anything from DOT or INAC.

My opinion is, until we don't see anything official posted from the Venezuelan INAC, then we shouldn't get our hopes up. These people are relentless... and seeing another carrier (let alone it being foreign and NOT Venezuelan) feed up this hungry route, then I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Definitely, the CCSMIA market would welcome another player... prices are overwhelming and we need more diversification. The mere fact that GOL already flies to CCS would definitely make it easier. If it were a new carrier, then I would just forget about it, given the prohibitive financial environment that reigns in our country.

797
Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!