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rotating14
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30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:20 pm

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...logy/2017747280_boeingchina15.html

According to this article, Boeing has won 30 new orders for the 777 but the 10 freighters from China Southern Air are included in this tally so its really 20 new frames. I Guess its not hard for Boeing to sell in China with the EU spat continuing. Who might these buyers be?? Ideas??   

Boeing in "advanced discussions" for 777s in China

[Edited 2012-03-14 15:33:24 by SA7700]
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:23 pm

Quoting rotating14 (Thread starter):

I think you meant -300ER for china southern, the other 20 could be for Air China and maybe MU?
Please let me know... If you know this is the end of the world, Let me know... If you know the truth...
 
ac033
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:31 pm

I would expect another 10-15 from Hainan Group and maybe 5 top on order from Air China.

MU most unlikely will order the B77W because their A343 is planned to replaced by A332 and A346 still got life.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:34 pm

The ETS is working out well for Boeing . What happens when one day the Chinese carriers don't need more planes, regardless of the political implications?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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rotating14
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:43 pm

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 2):

Yes you are right!
 
krisyyz
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:30 pm

Good new for Boeing... the mighty triple seven is going strong.

Perhaps off topic, but is Boeing still committed to the development of the 787-10 given their interest in the 777NG ?

KrisYYZ
 
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ER757
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:45 pm

Good for the 777 but wish Air China and Hong Kong Airlines would firm up those 748i orders.

Quoted from the article: Additionally, Albaugh says to expect 747-8 Freighter orders in the "next several months" despite softening in the global air freight market. - I am going to guess SQ may be one of those customers.
 
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rotating14
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:14 pm

Quoting krisyyz (Reply 5):

From what I understand they are. It will sacrifice range for seating capacity.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:23 pm

Great news for Boeing and it is beginning to look like another great year for the B-777.

Any news from China on last year's B-747-8I order of 15 airplanes?
 
ozglobal
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:49 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
The ETS is working out well for Boeing .
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):

Great news for Boeing and it is beginning to look like another great year for the B-777.

Americans, make up your mind. Is it political only (no credit to Boeing) or is it on 777's merit (no thanks to ETS)?

Acquiescing to a bully is never a good policy.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
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par13del
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:56 pm

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 9):
Acquiescing to a bully is never a good policy.

Depends on your side of the fence, you mean China or the EU  
 
davs5032
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:15 am

Quoting krisyyz (Reply 5):
Perhaps off topic, but is Boeing still committed to the development of the 787-10 given their interest in the 777NG ?

Since it's looking like Boeing are replacing the 777-200/300 with a larger variants, I'd say it only makes the 787-10 more likely. The 787-10 would seem to fit quite nicely in Boeing's product list given the wider gap that will exist between the 789 and 777 family.
 
ChazPilot
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:25 am

Awww...see what happens when we all play together nicely (against the EU Carbon Tax Scheme)?  
 
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ssteve
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:53 am

Quoting par13del (Reply 10):

Depends on your side of the fence, you mean China or the EU

zing!

Boeing's selling water in the desert, meantime.
 
NUAir
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:39 am

I don't think any of the Chinese airlines have recalled their interest for Airbus aircraft as their proposals are still being reviewed by the Chinese authorities (nothing has been withdrawn).

But, I'm sure this will put pressure on Airbus and the EU to appease the Chinese gov't. You could probably use the additional tax revenue from the Airbus orders for China to build eco friendly power stations that would displace far more carbon emissions then ETS ever would.
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
workhorse
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:00 am

Quoting ac033 (Reply 2):
MU most unlikely will order the B77W because their A343 is planned to replaced by A332 and A346 still got life.

Are China Eastern's A330's part of the two dozen (from other sources : 35) A330's whose purchase is allegedly blocked by the government?
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:18 am

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 9):
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):The ETS is working out well for Boeing . Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
Great news for Boeing and it is beginning to look like another great year for the B-777.
Americans, make up your mind. Is it political only (no credit to Boeing) or is it on 777's merit (no thanks to ETS)?

Acquiescing to a bully is never a good policy.

I think you can take it to the bank the B-777 sale is on the merits of the airplane. The B-777 is one of the most successful WBs ever offered for sale. Chances are this sale has been being talked about by China and Boeing long before ETS became an issue.
 
nomadd22
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:45 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 16):
I think you can take it to the bank the B-777 sale is on the merits of the airplane. The B-777 is one of the most successful WBs ever offered for sale. Chances are this sale has been being talked about by China and Boeing long before ETS became an issue.

Of course. That doesn't mean it was decided.
Anon
 
shankly
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:47 am

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 9):
Americans, make up your mind. Is it political only (no credit to Boeing) or is it on 777's merit (no thanks to ETS)?

Merit, merit, merit. The 777 (and especially the W) is a remarkable family of airplanes. Perhaps not the best cabin ride out there but boy does that thing shift people and bags safely and efficiently
L1011 - P F M
 
Daysleeper
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:13 pm

I’m not entirely sure what to make of this, if I remember correctly Chinese carries cancelled orders for 24 787’s last year opting to order A330’s instead. If they have now blocked the A330 orders then they would be pretty limited in terms of what they could order instead.

I guess we will have to wait and see, if they take the A330’s then this is indeed a new order, if not then essentially it’s to replace the 787’s they cancelled last year
 
Rara
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:21 pm

Quoting ChazPilot (Reply 12):


Awww...see what happens when we all play together nicely (against the EU Carbon Tax Scheme)?

Yap - an undemocratic and oppressive regime puts pressure on fellow democratic powers, you guys assist them and give yourself a major pat on the back for it.   Nice work. Next time China bullies the U.S. (and that time will come), will you look the EU's way for help?


My take on the matter: China bought 777's because they need them. The timing may have been "adjusted" to make ETS look like the culprit, but I don't buy into it. Ignore and continue.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
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Stitch
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:54 pm

China does not make snap purchasing decisions. You can be 110% positive this decision was made well before the CTS brouhaha went public and would have happened even if there was no CTS brouhaha.

Boeing knows they have hundreds of pending 777 orders, which is why they are increasing the production rate so significantly. Albaugh's trip was planned well in advance and part of that trip was going to be the announcement made.

[Edited 2012-03-15 09:54:58]
 
phishphan70
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:02 pm

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 9):
Americans, make up your mind. Is it political only (no credit to Boeing) or is it on 777's merit (no thanks to ETS)?

Acquiescing to a bully is never a good policy.


So am I being too "American" by looking at the situation and seeing two contributing factors? It's not ONLY political and it's not ONLY merit. No question, the 777 has a proven track record and could garner orders without any outside help. Yet, there is an outside factor playing into this and Boeing is pouncing on the opportunity.
So I'll respond to your comment to my countrymen and say, "French Guy, OPEN up your mind. There's usually more than one factor playing into ANY given situation."
 
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rotating14
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:02 pm

Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 19):
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/boe...ped-787s-order-for-737s-2011-10-18

The order was swapped for 737's, not cancelled. Yes they ordered 330's as a replacement but B didn't lose that much from the swap. With the resistance going on with the EU and China, those orders may be postponed or cancelled. I doubt they would need all of these 777's and the 330's they ordered after they swapped them for 737's. We'll find out in the next couple of weeks.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:07 pm

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 9):
Americans, make up your mind. Is it political only (no credit to Boeing) or is it on 777's merit (no thanks to ETS)?

It's blatantly obvious China orders based on the political wind. Just look at any of the CAAC airlines' fleets; they all have one of everything. That is not economically motivated fleet planning, at least not with airline economics.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Daysleeper
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:29 pm

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 23):
The order was swapped for 737's, not cancelled. Yes they ordered 330's as a replacement but B didn't lose that much from the swap. With the resistance going on with the EU and China, those orders may be postponed or cancelled. I doubt they would need all of these 777's and the 330's they ordered after they swapped them for 737's. We'll find out in the next couple of weeks.

I wasn’t really on about how much Boeing has gained or lost in financial terms, just speculating as to the reason behind the order. Which looks to be because they are going to block the A330’s they ordered to replace the cancelled 787s.

No sane person would argue that a 737 is able to substitute for the 787 so it was not a swap. The 737 order was more than likely placed in order to avoid the loss of deposits or any other financial penalties they would incur by cancelling the 787s.
 
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Stitch
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:50 pm

A 777-300ER is a pretty big step up from a 787-8 or A330-200, so I don't really see this order as being a retaliatory one against the EU.

Now if China orders 30 767-400ERs...   
 
Hamlet69
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:06 pm

Quoting rotating14 (Thread starter):
I Guess its not hard for Boeing to sell in China with the EU spat continuing.
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
The ETS is working out well for Boeing

Other than timing, this has nothing to do with the ETS spat between China and the EU. Aircraft deals of this nature do not just happen overnight. They take anywhere from 6 months to a couple of years to get worked out!

That being said, what China probably is doing behind the scenes is fast-tracking the governmental approval process in order to get a short-term, public benefit from any Boeing order. Long-term, the ETS dispute won't have any impact on Chinese ordering processes. And these are long-term deals.

Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 19):
I’m not entirely sure what to make of this, if I remember correctly Chinese carries cancelled orders for 24 787’s last year opting to order A330’s instead.

MU is cancelling 24 787's (China Eastern's 15 and Shanghai's 9). One very informed poster here on A.net has heard that these are actually not getting cancelled at all, but shifted to the Hainan Group as part of their MOU for 32 787's. In addition, MU is selling 5 A340-300's back to Airbus in exchange for an order for 15 A330's.

Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 25):
I wasn’t really on about how much Boeing has gained or lost in financial terms, just speculating as to the reason behind the order. Which looks to be because they are going to block the A330’s they ordered to replace the cancelled 787s.

No sane person would argue that a 737 is able to substitute for the 787 so it was not a swap. The 737 order was more than likely placed in order to avoid the loss of deposits or any other financial penalties they would incur by cancelling the 787s.

Neither would any sane, intelligent person wildly speculate on something instead of educating themselves on what they are attempting to speak on. First off, your entire theory is based on two assumptions that may or may not be true:

1) the 20 still-unidentified 777's being discussed are all passenger versions, and not Freighters
2) at least some of those 20 pax 777's are for MU, the operator responsible for the 787 cancellations

Neither of those points are known at this point in time. I.E., if the remaining 20 (taking away CZ's known 10 -300ER's) are for Air China, more China Southern, Hainan, Hong Kong Airlines, etc., then it has nothing to do with the 787 cancellation. Likewise, even if it is MU, they could still be more 777F's for MU's China Cargo division, which again, would have nothing to do with the 787's, nor the Chinese government's dispute with the EU, and subsequent stalling of A330 contracts.

The other issue with your assumptions is the other reasons (besides the obvious and unforgiveable delay's in the 787) MU cancelled the 787's - slow long-range international growth vs. robust domestic and regional growth. Just a few quotes from this article (my bold):

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-1...nes-to-expand-flight-capacity.html

"China Eastern Airlines Corp. dropped an order for 24 Boeing Co. (BA) 787 Dreamliners in favor of 45 smaller 737s after the larger jet’s delivery was delayed and a weakening economy hurt demand for long-haul air travel. "

"Luo Zhuping, China Eastern’s board secretary, said by phone. “We are making swift moves to serve domestic demand that is still robust at the moment.” "

"The airline is also curtailing international expansion after struggling to compete with Air China Ltd. and China Southern Airlines Co. on overseas routes. "


Regards,

Hamlet69
Honor the warriors, not the war.
 
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rotating14
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:52 am

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/chi...r-10-airbus-jets-report-2012-03-15

It looks like the tug of war is leaning towards the Chinese
 
Hamlet69
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RE: 30 New 777's For Chinese Airlines-->Boeing

Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:10 am

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 28):
It looks like the tug of war is leaning towards the Chinese

There is another thread (albeit VERY OT by now) running on the EU/China spat, with Airbus unfortunately caught in the middle.

Let's try and keep this one to the Chinese 777 (or even 747-8, as they were also mentioned by Albaugh) orders.

Thanks for your understanding,

Hamlet69
Honor the warriors, not the war.

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