stlgph
Topic Author
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Air Berlin Joins One World

Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:13 pm

link -
http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v6/newsbusiness.php?id=653598



Interestingly enough, Finnair was the one to make the announcement.


Airberlin joins oneworld alliance today

Finnair Plc
Press release

Airberlin joins oneworld alliance today

Europe’s sixth biggest airline airberlin, along with its subsidiary
airberlinNIKI, are welcomed into the oneworld global airline alliance today,
March 20. Finnair and airberlin have cooperated on a code-share basis since
2010. The cooperation has opened up new destinations in German-speaking Europe
and the Mediterranean for Finnair customers, and airberlin’s membership of the
alliance will expand the network even further.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
bavair
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:21 pm

 
jrn216
Posts: 51
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:59 pm

Having Air Berlin join the oneworld alliance is an interesting and welcome move.

I have travelled with Air Berlin a number of times and have always been impressed by its level of service. It will be good to earn mileage awards on my British Airways account when flying Air Berlin in the future.

Air Berlin has been to a large extent a leisure-based airline with a substantial network to the Mediterranean. Adding new destinations to an alliance’s coverage is beneficial but, of course, is not necessarily of benefit when trying to attract premium passengers. The airline’s continued transformation, however, will be interesting to watch and today’s entry to oneworld marks a big step towards this. Hubs at Berlin Brandenburg and Düsseldorf will certainly be useful for oneworld and the additional feed and coverage will assist Air Berlin in its attempts to restructure, offering new partnerships and growth opportunities.

I do wonder, however, what impact Air Berlin’s relationship with Etihad will have upon the airline’s oneworld membership in the long-term.
 
A388
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:14 pm

Good news, can anyone let me know when this One World A330-200 will fly to Curacao? We have a once weekly service every tuesday. Anyone with insight into their aircraft scheduling, would be very much appreciated to know this.

Once again, congratulations to Air Berlin and One World!!!

A388
 
DLD9S
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:58 pm

It looks like oneworld.com has finally removed Mexicana's logo from the homepage with the addition of AB.
717 727 737 747 757 767 777 DC9 DC10 M80 M90 M11 L10 AB6 333 340 319 320 321 ARJ CRJ EM2 EMJ SF3 146 100 BE1...
 
lhr380
Posts: 2453
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:59 pm

The Oneworld boards here in T5 have been changed adding AB and taking away MA and MX.


Welcome to the family AB

I can't find it on the iPad, but under the pic of the 330 in Oneworld colours it has the next 3 days sched for the plane

[Edited 2012-03-20 09:05:15]
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
nycdave
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:25 pm

Is AB going to be improving and expanding their J offering, or adding F? Isn't a key aim for alliances to harmonize customer experience across the brands?

I agree -- AB was hands-down the most pleasant LCC I flew in Europe... arguably ready for primetime if they can add a business/first product that's up to their coach standard.
 
lhr380
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:27 pm

Quoting nycdave (Reply 6):

Never had F at AB and their is no need to. I believe they are improving their onboard offerings.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
captaincrackers
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:41 pm

Quoting nycdave (Reply 6):
Is AB going to be improving and expanding their J offering

Although AB already launched a new hard J product on their A332s in January, German media reported last week that AB now plans to introduce EY's full-flat J seats and a new entertainment product starting fall 2012, ostensibly due to pressure from EY.

Edited to add: AB hasn't actually announced this, and there is speculation the new product will be installed only on aircraft doing BER-AUD.

[Edited 2012-03-20 09:44:18]
 
miaintl
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:19 pm

AB has to radically change their service and stop serving leisure destinations if they want to be of any benefit to oneworld alliance. I suggest making DUS and BER its sole hubs and try driving LH out of those markets so they can have it all to themselves. LH does not need hubs at DUS and BER it should let AB be the sole carrier operating out of those airports.

[Edited 2012-03-20 11:21:23]
 
A388
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:37 pm

Quoting miaintl (Reply 9):
AB has to radically change their service and stop serving leisure destinations if they want to be of any benefit to oneworld alliance.

Why should they? If an alliance can also offer its customers leisure destinations, it only broadens the customers' options. Based on this thread AB needs to adapt their inflight service but why stop serving leisure destinations? Even legacy carriers are now getting into leisure markets (BA, AF, KL), so why shouldn't AB who has been active in these type of markets for years?

A388
 
Jonathanxxxx
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:43 pm

Quoting miaintl (Reply 9):
AB has to radically change their service

Yep, especially if they want to attract more premium passengers to BER.


He said for AB to stop serving leisure destinations:
If it works why fix it? You already have BA to serve all the business destinations, IB to serve Latin America and AB to serve the leisure destinations. Seems pretty well rounded.

[quote=miaintl,reply=9]I suggest making DUS and BER its sole hubs and try driving LH out of those markets so they can have it all to themselves. LH does not need hubs at DUS and BER it should let AB be the sole carrier operating out of those airports.
This could be a good strategy, defending it before LH comes in and takes it all.
 
AirCanada787
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:48 pm

Quoting miaintl (Reply 9):
LH does not need hubs at DUS and BER it should let AB be the sole carrier operating out of those airports.

Why should LH just forget about DUS and BER and let AB be the only carrier at those airports? That's quite the idea and it would never happen, to expect one airline to just handover passengers to another airline is a bit of a preposterous idea when they could get some of the passengers for themselves. Airlines aren't about playing nice they are about making money.
The mind, like a parachute, functions only when open.
 
miaintl
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:01 pm

Quoting AirCanada787 (Reply 12):

LH already has FRA and MUC let them have AB get DUS and BER. LH will only cannibalize its own traffic if it keeps on adding hubs and focus cities. They have two beautiful hubs at FRA and MUC which are more than efficient, LH just wants to have a monopoly in the German air market and they don't want any competition, but I suggest that AB brings the competition to them and the way to do this is for AB to start serving premium business destinations and compete with LH on these routes.
 
Jonathanxxxx
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:14 pm

Quoting miaintl (Reply 13):

LH already has FRA and MUC let them have AB get DUS and BER. LH will only cannibalize its own traffic if it keeps on adding hubs and focus cities. They have two beautiful hubs at FRA and MUC which are more than efficient, LH just wants to have a monopoly in the German air market and they don't want any competition, but I suggest that AB brings the competition to them and the way to do this is for AB to start serving premium business destinations and compete with LH on these routes

They could do that, they will probably go under, but they can. Do you really think all the premium business demand in FRA and MUC will just jump ship over to AB? They will if the price is right but how low is that price? (Probably not high enough to be able to make money). AB is learning to make BER and DUS, IMO they should guard these as much as they can so that LH doesn't invade them instead of the other way around.
 
ckfred
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:02 am

When can we expect AB and/or AA to start connecting DUS and/or BER with AA's keystone cities in the U.S.?
 
qf340500
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:35 am

Congrats to AB  )) Well done and i wish them the best of luck!

I always loved AirBerlin and their concept and i was thrilled to hear that they gonna join oneworld when it was first announced. oneworld has become my favourite alliance in the last years since i am not living in Germany anymore and i am fed up with SQ, so now its CX and QF for me...

Now CX and / or QF, fly to BER and make use of the extensive network of AB there! (i hope hope hope).
 
miaintl
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:38 am

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 14):

That's what i am suggesting, let AB fly to short and long-haul premium destinations out of BER and DUS and offer an alternative to the usual FRA and MUC hubs. Once AB ceases to be a low-cost vacation carrier and transforms itself into a world-class legacy carrier on the par with KL, AF, LH and BA then it can transform DUS and BER into major connecting hubs that can compete with the likes of CDG, FRA and AMS. All the vacation destinations that AB is used to flying to can be handed over to Germanwings and Ryanair. LH can close its mini-hubs at BER and DUS and hand over all its routes to AB. AB can inherit all the premium routes from LH and AB can finally offer Germans an alternative to the usual LH monopoly.
 
crAAzy
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:06 am

Quoting CaptainCrackers (Reply 8):
Although AB already launched a new hard J product on their A332s in January, German media reported last week that AB now plans to introduce EY's full-flat J seats and a new entertainment product starting fall 2012, ostensibly due to pressure from EY.

Edited to add: AB hasn't actually announced this, and there is speculation the new product will be installed only on aircraft doing BER-AUD.

I've also heard that AB won't be installing the new product until it starts receiving it's 787s in 2014. I like the timing of you're information better but I'll be disappointed if they only choose to install it on aircraft flying BER-AUD.
 
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qfvhoqa
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:59 am

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 7):
Quoting nycdave (Reply 6):

Never had F at AB and their is no need to. I believe they are improving their onboard offerings.

Further to that, AY don't have F and are part of oneworld. As log as there is a decent J it should be sufficient.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:09 am

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 19):
Further to that, AY don't have F and are part of oneworld. As log as there is a decent J it should be sufficient.

Agreed. Look at DL - it doesn't have F on longhaul flights and neither did PMCO.
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
blink182
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:11 am

Quoting ckfred (Reply 15):
When can we expect AB and/or AA to start connecting DUS and/or BER with AA's keystone cities in the U.S.?

AB already flies to JFK, MIA, and LAX. They've operated out of JFK's T-8 since long before oneworld ever came into the picture.

Quoting miaintl (Reply 17):
All the vacation destinations that AB is used to flying to can be handed over to Germanwings and Ryanair. LH can close its mini-hubs at BER and DUS and hand over all its routes to AB. AB can inherit all the premium routes from LH and AB can finally offer Germans an alternative to the usual LH monopoly.

Why just give up on leisure if that works? Does AB need to bulk up on some LH-heavy trunk routes like FRA-MUC, FRA-SXF, MUC-DUS, and others? Sure, but AB has carved out a niche for itself connecting Germany with Spain and other southern european destinations while offering a product light years ahead of AA on equivalent stage lengths. As much as AB would like LH to just pack up and leave BER and DUS, that's probably not going to happen. LH isn't a charity, and they'll fight for DUS and BER. If AB wants to be strong in those markets, they'll do it by offering a strong product and route network that can support those markets whether the focus is business or leisure, which so far seems to work. AB will only be an asset to oneworld if the airline makes money, and there's a difference between upgrading its premium product with some filler routes and overhauling its entire network on a whim.
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
miaintl
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:39 am

Quoting blink182 (Reply 21):

But you cant have a low cost leisure carrier join a major alliance. If that is the case then why don't Ryanair and Easyjet join star and sky. One world is severely lacking in central and eastern Europe and AB is ideally positioned to capture that market, but they much rather fly to Mediterranean junk routes with trash yield and no premium demand. I say let the other low costs handle that market, and let AB transform itself into a major European carrier that can effectively compete against the likes of AF and LH and that means it has to fly on a lot of the same routes as AF and LH.
 
nycdave
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:18 am

Oy vey, I said *improving/expanding* their J offering OR adding F. I know F isn't considered a necessity by many, when the J product is top-of-the-line.

That said, AA, BA, CX, and QF all have a true F product on key long-haul routes... and the fact that many *A carriers have the same was one of the reasons given for the new UA keeping/expanding F on certain routes, rather than going the PMCO way and just doing J.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:33 am

Quoting CaptainCrackers (Reply 8):
Edited to add: AB hasn't actually announced this, and there is speculation the new product will be installed only on aircraft doing BER-AUD.

It has been announced and confirmed - it was announced klast week. AB's 787 fleet will be configured identical to Etihad's, same product and all, and it certainly won't be limited to BERAUH.

Quoting miaintl (Reply 22):
central and eastern Europe and AB is ideally positioned to capture that market, but they much rather fly to Mediterranean junk routes with trash yield and no premium demand

Yields to central and eastern Europe are just as trashy and the premium demand is similarity non-existent.
a.
 
r2rho
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:03 am

Change their service? I must have flown on a different AB then... as far as Y class intra-EU is concerned at least, AB matches or beats the legacy carriers on both sides of the Atlantic. Their long-haul product is however indeed quite leisure-oriented, and they will surely have to improve its appeal to premium pax. But don't forget that their future BER hub is mostly a leisure destination, so no point in having too premium-heavy aircraft.
 
captaincrackers
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:29 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 24):
It has been announced and confirmed - it was announced klast week. AB's 787 fleet will be configured identical to Etihad's, same product and all, and it certainly won't be limited to BERAUH.

The information I linked to specifically refers to AB’s A332s and gives autumn 2012 as the timeframe. I can't find any official announcement about this -- the airlines.de reporter is reporting on a conversation with an AB spokesperson at the ITB who was obviously not yet ready to properly announce anything. (The announcement about the 787s is here).
 
lhr380
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:52 am

Quoting miaintl (Reply 22):

Says who?

Some aircraft by the way some of the current Oneworld airlines fly don't have F (BA 767 and some 777)

Ezy and FR do it want to join a alliance as its not the way they work
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
BommerJan
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:18 am

Whenever I compare prices Air Berlin is more expensive than the competition, more often than not even more expensive than Lufthansa. If at all, it is a high cost low cost carrier. IMO it has an awful livery and CI. It is a collection of carriers which did not make it (among others former Deutsche BA, and former LTU) and as a sum almost failed, had it not been for the investment of Etihad. Now it joined oneworld, which is also a collection of troubled airlines. I cannot see the space for them. And I do not see a reason to fly them.
 
GT4EZY
Posts: 511
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:51 pm

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 27):
Ezy and FR do it want to join a alliance as its not the way they work

Don't be too sure about that..... although I don't see it joining an alliance in the traditional sense. Much of what the board wrangled about with Stelios was the ability to form relationships with other businesses both within the airline/travel industry and beyond.
Proud to fly from Manchester!
 
Btblue
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:16 pm

I wonder how long it will be before they join IAG   
146/2/3 737/2/3/4/5/7/8/9 A320 1/2/18/19/21 DC9/40/50 DC10/30 A300/6 A330/2/3 A340/3/6 A380 757/2/3 747/4 767/3/4 787 77
 
r2rho
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:02 pm

Quoting miaintl (Reply 22):
If that is the case then why don't Ryanair and Easyjet join star and sky.

I think there is a severe general misunderstanding of what AB is today, which is strongly hurting AB's business. Yes, AB was born out of the aggressive acquisition and merging of a bunch of previous low-cost leisure carriers, and is therefore still remembered as a traditional LCC by the flying public, even though they have now clearly moved away from that strategy and towards that of a full-service carrier. However, if people still view them as traditional LCC, they will not see the value and therefore not be willing to pay AB's pretty high fares.

In fact I am against the term LCC as it is no longer valid in today's airline environment with the lines getting ever blurrier and the emerging of hybrid, new generation carriers. I prefer to talk about frills and cost base, separately.
AB offers more frills for free than US legacies (including food, baggage, etc etc) as well as connecting flights. Their cost base is likely high, and should be one of the reasons why they are losing money as they lack the premium traffic.

Quoting jrn216 (Reply 2):
I do wonder, however, what impact Air Berlin’s relationship with Etihad will have upon the airline’s oneworld membership in the long-term.

I was quite surprised when this was announced, as I was expecting IAG to buy into AB instead. EY will likely help make AB a stronger carrier, but also more independent from IB-BA...
 
PezySPU
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:39 pm

Quoting miaintl (Reply 22):
But you cant have a low cost leisure carrier join a major alliance. If that is the case then why don't Ryanair and Easyjet join star and sky.

In theory, there is nothing stopping FR and U2 from joining an alliance, except for two things:

1) Would an alliance approve their membership? Both carriers have a very minimalistic service, an alliance probably doesn't want to deteriorate its own brand and the brands of its other full-service members.
2) Would the two airlines be willing to increase CASM beacuse of alliance membership (codeshares, connections, hub&spoke model, etc.). That would kill their business models stone-dead.

Quoting r2rho (Reply 31):
I think there is a severe general misunderstanding of what AB is today, which is strongly hurting AB's business.

I fear that, too. I guess they should invest in marketing and try to change public perspective as much as possible. Then again, AB still has lots of leisure destinations, despite of trying to resemble a business traveler-oriented carrier at the same time. They are truly a hybrid airline. But I'm sure they will figure something out...

Is maybe splitting the company to FSC and LCC divsions on the horizon?
 
nycdave
Posts: 301
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RE: Air Berlin Joins One World

Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:19 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 31):
In fact I am against the term LCC as it is no longer valid in today's airline environment with the lines getting ever blurrier and the emerging of hybrid, new generation carriers. I prefer to talk about frills and cost base, separately.

B6 has much the same situation here in the States (AB is not unique in this). On many routes, it is as expensive or even more expensive than legacy carriers -- but it also often offers better service and hard product. Of course, that's all only valid if you're flying a restricted coach fare. AB has something more akin to a true business-class service (which B6 does not, although VX does), although it still needs to go a ways in improvement to match that of other OW carriers.

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