Sevensixtyseven
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US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:30 pm

I am curious what US Airways is going to replace their Domestic 757 fleets with. These 9 aircraft are all (except 1), Ex-America West birds. They were inherited from Republic Airlines, so they are nowhere new, and they serve on the Phoenix-Hawaii market.

I had heard that a portion of the fleet had gotten new seat covers and bin extentions, so perhaps those will be retired a bit later (All of that fleet are supposed to be retired from 2012-2015). Question is..what is US going to replace them with? They claim the A321 is going to replace them, which will actually add a few seats, but they lack ETOPS...so they can't fly to Hawaii, which is the main mission of the 752s. The A332s and 767s are all but maxed out as far as capacity, so US couldn't even fly the routes (unless they axed Europe) if East crews were allowed to do so, and even if they ordered 737-NGs...those wouldn't make PHX-Hawaii, even if the winds were excellent. After more A332s roll in and the integration is done, could US theoretically fly the A332/A333, or 762s on Phoenix-Hawaii? I know that as far as the product, their A332s would completely blow past Hawaiian's A332, as well as have the best premium class product on any Mainland-Hawaii flight.

Does anyone know what the replacement is going to be? More (used) 757s, or will they drop out of the Hawaii market because they don't have the equipment to serve Hawaii? I can't imagine they will drop it to 1x daily to Honolulu, using the one leased 757 they are using. (At peak, US was serving 4x daily to Honolulu, 2x daily to Maui, 1x daily each to Lihue/Kauai, and Kona. Another flight that is a West 752 is the daily Phoenix-Cancun nonstop, which was changed to an A321 for a while over the winter months. It had to take a different routing because it didn't have ETOPS)

Also a bit off topic, does anyone know if the Phoenix-Hawaii flights are doing good? I would assume they're doing good because they are funneling traffic from the rest of the PHX hub, and maybe beyond that? I'm not asking about any specific load factors, unless anyone can say without getting in trouble.
Will that ex-HP 752 get delayed...again?
 
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seabosdca
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:32 pm

Until the A321 neo is available, they will have to fly the routes with 757s. Whether that means hanging onto the current fleet a bit longer or finding other 757s, I have no idea. A current A321 can't do PHX-Hawaii with any reasonable load.
 
gigneil
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:02 pm

Yeah they'll just keep their 757s until the A321neo. I don't see an issue.

NS
 
silentbob
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:14 pm

All but one appear to be owned, I would expect them to be around until the 321NEO arrives and is ETOPS certified or the A350s arrive and the 332s or 333s can be shifted over.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:24 pm

My dream - and it's only a dream - would be that US would pick up some new (yes, new) 767-300ER's with winglets and new interiors and use them to replace the 767-200's and perhaps some of the 757-200 flying that is beyond the range of the A321's.

Obviously the NEO's will be more capable than the CEO's so perhaps the 763's wouldn't need to serve HI, but as I said, it's a dream.  

-Dave
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seabosdca
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:35 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 4):
My dream - and it's only a dream - would be that US would pick up some new (yes, new) 767-300ER's with winglets and new interiors and use them to replace the 767-200's

They have already placed this order. The only little detail is that Airbus won it.  

But A332s are a bit big for Phoenix-Hawaii.
 
tommy767
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:37 pm

I want to say at least a dozen of US's 757s are from 1993-1995 though. It's the ex-EA PMUS and PMAW that are older.
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captainmeeerkat
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:38 pm

AA's Airbus order of course!   

  
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PlanesNTrains
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:03 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 5):
They have already placed this order. The only little detail is that Airbus won it.

But A332s are a bit big for Phoenix-Hawaii.

OH, I know, and I think the 330-200 is a great plane. I just think the 767-300ER would be a great gap filler between the A321 and the big Airbus widebodies. Of course, I think that option would have been better timed a few years ago, but regardless, reality says it isn't going to happen.

I'd imagine ultimately that the A321NEO/A332 would make a great combo for the Hawaiian Market once the NEO's and A350's start coming on line.

-Dave
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aztrainer
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:09 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 5):
But A332s are a bit big for Phoenix-Hawaii.

Don't know about that as HA will eventually have to use a 332 when they phase out the 767. I also think that if US were to get rid of the 757 some people would go back to US from HA as they like the bigger plane and subsequent more room.

How would a 321NEO do with the heat in PHX during the summer? I ask this because I was on a US flight that had weight restrictions due to the heat and wind issues.
 
Sevensixtyseven
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:00 pm

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 9):

I thought PHX was one of the routes to get an A332 sooner, because the 767 has been sold out so frequently.
Will that ex-HP 752 get delayed...again?
 
dlramp4life
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:45 pm

Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Reply 10):
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 9):

I thought PHX was one of the routes to get an A332 sooner, because the 767 has been sold out so frequently.

It has been said that HA will bring in the A332 for a while now to PHX but I think it has alot do with gate space, their current gate is awfully small on the south end....The perfect gate for them would be gate 24 on the north end of T3 at PHX. Just need a new jetway and to set up a podium....DL is itching at the chance to take over HA ramp handling in PHX and if that becomes true with a new gate I think the A332 will be a daily thing at PHX.
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wn676
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:36 am

Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Thread starter):
They were inherited from Republic Airlines

Five of them are, three are ex-HP, and one is ex-NA.

Quoting silentbob (Reply 3):

Is the 321NEO able to do PHX-Hawaii? I've heard US repeatedly state that it "isn't quite there yet" for those segments.
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gigneil
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:33 am

What? Of course it is. It isn't quite there for the transatlantic segments.

PHX-Hawaii is a no brainer for any of the A320neo family. Its only 2535 nm. The A321 neo will have nearly 3800nm of range based on the recent press out of ISTAT.

NS
 
jrfspa320
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:37 am

Why dont they get ETOPS on the A321s?
 
gigneil
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:39 am

They will clearly have to on any NEOs. A current A321 could fly SFO-HNL, but not PHX.

NS
 
wn676
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:51 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 13):
What? Of course it is. It isn't quite there for the transatlantic segments.

PHX-Hawaii is a no brainer for any of the A320neo family. Its only 2535 nm. The A321 neo will have nearly 3800nm of range based on the recent press out of ISTAT.

Well, the last I had heard from US was that it still didn't have the required performance to operate year-round to all four islands. That was in December though.
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einsteinboricua
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:13 am

Quoting jrfspa320 (Reply 14):
Why dont they get ETOPS on the A321s?

The current version cannot make it to HNL from PHX. The best they can do is fly to LAX/SFO and hope that it will make it.
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fokkerf28
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:15 am

The truth is there is no good replacement for the 757. During summer weight restrictions on the 757 are a daily reality. I wonder if the A321 neo could do the mission with the heat and etops equipped with headwinds. I guess we will have to wait and see. The A330-200 has been discussed but last I heard, too much aircraft for the route. I guess all is subject to change.



cheers.
 
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:02 am

Quoting fokkerf28 (Reply 18):
The truth is there is no good replacement for the 757.

Yep, same across the Atlantic. I know some dislike this fact, but it is a true workhorse for all secondary markets which may otherwise have no direct service at all, or only 1-2 airlines instead of 2-3 airlines.
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flanker
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:04 am

Last year I flew on their 752 from Brussels to Philly, and it was a great experience. MUCH better than that crap of a product they have on their 762 going there. YUKKKK!!!
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silentbob
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:26 am

Quoting wn676 (Reply 12):
Is the 321NEO able to do PHX-Hawaii? I've heard US repeatedly state that it "isn't quite there yet" for those segments.

I was going by the other comments, I have no direct knowledge one way or the other.
 
GuitrThree
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:47 am

Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Thread starter):
Also a bit off topic, does anyone know if the Phoenix-Hawaii flights are doing good?

I can tell you this. I booked this very flight for May 5th yesterday, (US Air 429) and according to the US Air seat selector, after I got done selecting my two seats, there are around 4 left in coach. So I'm guessing at least the Saturday flights pretty darn well.
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jetsetter629
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:40 pm

I booked PHL-PHX-LIH and KOA-PHX-PHL for my honeymoon and the flights were not cheap either.

I heard that sometimes the 757s are weight restricted to Hawaii on very hot days or when there is a strong headwind. I wouldn't want to be bumped off that flight...
 
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seabosdca
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:01 pm

Quoting fokkerf28 (Reply 18):
I wonder if the A321 neo could do the mission with the heat and etops equipped with headwinds. I guess we will have to wait and see.

Range shouldn't be an issue, but takeoff performance in the heat very well could be (as it can be even on the 757). I wonder if they might retime the afternoon flights to leave in a less hot part of the day... the morning flights should be fine.
 
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:13 pm

Quoting fokkerf28 (Reply 18):
I wonder if the A321 neo could do the mission with the heat and etops equipped with headwinds.

Hell no...especially when considering heat/headwinds/payload penalty. The 321NEO is still not as capable as the 757. PHX-Hawaii is one of those 10% of routes the 321NEO/739max ect. cannot account for well.
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aztrainer
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:27 pm

Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Reply 10):
I thought PHX was one of the routes to get an A332 sooner, because the 767 has been sold out so frequently.

God, I hope so as you have to book four to five months out to get the 2 seats.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 11):
It has been said that HA will bring in the A332 for a while now to PHX but I think it has alot do with gate space, their current gate is awfully small on the south end....The perfect gate for them would be gate 24 on the north end of T3 at PHX. Just need a new jetway and to set up a podium....DL is itching at the chance to take over HA ramp handling in PHX and if that becomes true with a new gate I think the A332 will be a daily thing at PHX.

What about T-4 and the space that BA 744 uses? I know it moves them out of T-3, but space would be a non-issue then.
 
wn676
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:34 pm

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 26):
What about T-4 and the space that BA 744 uses? I know it moves them out of T-3, but space would be a non-issue then.

HA used to op at T4 but made the switch to T3 around the time that Servisair took over the ground handling contract from HP iirc. They used B23.
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gigneil
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:50 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 25):
Hell no...especially when considering heat/headwinds/payload penalty. The 321NEO is still not as capable as the 757. PHX-Hawaii is one of those 10% of routes the 321NEO/739max ect. cannot account for well.

I don't see any reason to believe that's true. Sorry.   Its a lot of capability and already not really on the fringe.

I would have to see some numbers showing the hot in Phoenix is really THAT hot.

NS
 
dlramp4life
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:03 pm

Quoting wn676 (Reply 27):
HA used to op at T4 but made the switch to T3 around the time that Servisair took over the ground handling contract from HP iirc. They used B23.

But why did they change terminals...because Servisair had a pretty big presence at T4 now handling all international carriers
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aztrainer
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:35 pm

Quoting wn676 (Reply 27):
HA used to op at T4 but made the switch to T3 around the time that Servisair took over the ground handling contract from HP iirc. They used B23.

Yeah, I remember that now that you said it. I thought that they moved to T-3 as there was less traffic at T-3 and they could have a lot more space and take some pressure off of T-4

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 29):
But why did they change terminals...because Servisair had a pretty big presence at T4 now handling all international carriers

Could it be that they have a limited amount of people in T-4 and that HA's departure time is right in the meat of the AM departures?
 
Sevensixtyseven
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:17 am

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 30):

I think they should move back to T4..why? Easier connections. Some of the earliest morning arrivals into PHX arrive soon enough that it would make a seamless connection from US Airways or Southwest. Walk down to the High-B gates..and you're all good to go, unless you have checked baggage. The fact we would have had to change terminals is the reason we did not fly Hawaiian out of Phoenix for a connection on a trip earlier this year.
Will that ex-HP 752 get delayed...again?
 
futureatp
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:36 am

As for HA service to PHX: HA changed terminals after their code share with America West ended. HA changed their schedule to an midnight arrival to 8am departure (more O and D friendly) from an early morning arrival to noon departure (more connection friendly to HP) I'm pretty sure they get a much better lease rate on that gate at t-3 (it may even be a sublease from jetblue). That T-3 gate HA uses can easily handle a A330. I was still working there when they checked it out for an A330. The 767 currently uses an angled J-line to the gate (so a fuel pit would line up properly for the left wing). An A330 would use same angled J-line and there should be one fuel pit (If HA's A330s are right wing fueled, DL's are) that fueling it wont be a problem.

As far as the posters original question: Sounds like AA 767-300s may be in the picture  
 
Sevensixtyseven
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:04 pm

Quoting futureatp (Reply 32):

Heheh. AA 767-300s...that would be a nice upgrade to PHX-Hawaii. US' 752s are rather ratty, so I've heard. All those LAS-SNA night flights wore them out. Maybe AA doesn't need all 58 of their 763s....sell 5-10 to US...having completely flat bed seats would be nice on Hawaii flights from PHX. It would definitely give them a leg up on Hawaiian.
Will that ex-HP 752 get delayed...again?
 
aztrainer
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:21 pm

Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Reply 33):
Heheh. AA 767-300s...that would be a nice upgrade to PHX-Hawaii. US' 752s are rather ratty, so I've heard. All those LAS-SNA night flights wore them out. Maybe AA doesn't need all 58 of their 763s....sell 5-10 to US...having completely flat bed seats would be nice on Hawaii flights from PHX. It would definitely give them a leg up on Hawaiian.

I would be a definite upgrade as I was on two of the 757's and have only flown HA since. They turned the 757 between LAS, PHX, SNA LAX and SAN when not going to Hawai'i. If they did upgrade to the 767, that may bring some people back to US to fly to Hawai'i. I do wonder if US were to upgrade to a 763, would they continue the PHX to OGG, HNL, LIH and KOA?

That would go from (193, 189, 176, 163 depending on the variance used and seat guru numbers) seats on the 757 to 225 on a 763 or a net increase in 128, 144, 196 or 248 seats per trip.
 
airlinespotter
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RE: US Airways 757-200s...what's The Replacement?

Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:00 am

Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Reply 33):
Heheh. AA 767-300s...that would be a nice upgrade to PHX-Hawaii. US' 752s are rather ratty, so I've heard. All those LAS-SNA night flights wore them out. Maybe AA doesn't need all 58 of their 763s....sell 5-10 to US...having completely flat bed seats would be nice on Hawaii flights from PHX. It would definitely give them a leg up on Hawaiian.

Hehehehe, US might not have to buy those 767-300s, but they might get them through aqusitions .

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