lnglive1011yyz
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Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:06 am

According to several media sources and Twitter, Ground staff appear to have walked off the job in a wild cat strike at YYZ tonight.

Flights are hardly moving for Air Canada at the moment at YYZ.

http://www.680news.com/news/local/ar...s-stage-wild-cat-strike-at-pearson

1011yyz
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YYZatcboy
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:25 am

Good for them! While probably illegal it shows they will not be bullied by our travesty of a federal labour minister.
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flyyul
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:28 am

Do AC employees realize that they are putting their jobs/careers on the line with this type of behaviour?
 
mmedford
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:35 am

Quoting flyyul (Reply 2):
Do AC employees realize that they are putting their jobs/careers on the line with this type of behaviour?

What choice did they have?

Management wouldn't negotiate in good faith, and the government is siding with management instead of ordering fair arbirition.
ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
 
flyyul
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:42 am

How did management not negotiate in good faith?

Management reached tentative agreement with every single union! Every-time it reached the membership it was voted down. This occurred 2 times with CUPE (flight attendants).
 
mmedford
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:45 am

Quoting flyyul (Reply 4):
How did management not negotiate in good faith?

Management reached tentative agreement with every single union! Every-time it reached the membership it was voted down. This occurred 2 times with CUPE (flight attendants).



It's a negotiating tactic commonly used...

Look at the NATCA contract of 2006 and how it was imposed upon the controllers.

The agreement could have been voted down to force new negotiations instead of an imposed contract.
ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
 
idjim319
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:47 am

Yes it appears it is happening based on all of the reports. Congratulations YYZ rampies..... you've stranded folks on airplanes. Just think on that there are humans in those airplanes with children with them, job interviews to make, dying family members, funerals, weddings and life to get to. They bought their tickets in good faith. The idea of using innocent people to have your wishes/demands met sounds by definition like something our society does not ethically or morally support. If you don't see it this way then maybe you need to actually think.

The damage this is doing to the brand, the customer loyalty, the credibility of that company is unbelievable. It is pushing AC ever closer to CCAA and is maybe what needs to happen. If these folks' goal is unemployment, then they are certainly going about it the right way. It is at the point where I hope the CLRB and anyone else with authority to do so says enough, let's allow AC to lock out and shut down in an organized way, reorganize without the band of fools from the unions thinking they're in charge and restart. If the previous union employees are interested in a job, they can reapply (and I'm sure their track records will be reviewed). If they choose not to apply, then fine, let's hire some folks who are willing to work.

It is high time this ends. Canada is being held to ransom by AC's unions who show time and time again they're only looking for more for little delivery or quality of service. The labour minister has stated she notes AC's unions behave peculiarly -- they elect people to represent them then reject anything they bring back -- apparently negotiated in good faith. How on earth do you run a business like this? Time for a big change.
 
WestJet747
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:47 am

If they truly felt the government was against them before, they have a hell of a firestorm coming their way...

Quoting lnglive1011yyz (Thread starter):
According to several media sources and Twitter, Ground staff appear to have walked off the job in a wild cat strike at YYZ tonight.

I'm wondering what the strategy behind the timing was? Minimal flights are going to be affected this late at night. If they are trying to make a statement this big I would have assumed they would walk-off tomorrow morning.

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 1):
While probably illegal

Probably?

Quoting mmedford (Reply 3):
What choice did they have?

Their safety and their livelihoods were not at risk. They could have waited to see where the arbitration went.
Flying refined.
 
mmedford
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:56 am

Quoting idjim319 (Reply 6):
Yes it appears it is happening based on all of the reports. Congratulations YYZ rampies..... you've stranded folks on airplanes. Just think on that there are humans in those airplanes with children with them, job interviews to make, dying family members, funerals, weddings and life to get to. They bought their tickets in good faith. The idea of using innocent people to have your wishes/demands met sounds by definition like something our society does not ethically or morally support. If you don't see it this way then maybe you need to actually think.

Not if my goal is to show how important I am to your operation. If I remove myself; when you need me the most.You will suffer and see what my presence to the company means.

Honestly; if this was their intent...their point has been clearly displayed.

Look at the NYC MTA strike from several years ago, damn near shut down the city. Management and the city was taught a pretty good lesson after that.
ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
 
aerohottie
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:05 am

Its a shame AC can't legally just walk away from the union contracts, sack the lot of them and start again with new staff on new contracts that both the airline and the market are prepared to pay.
Make all of the staff reapply for their jobs... In this market I guarantee that if AC was able to recruit, and advertised for the roles they would get a truckload of applications from people who are very willing to work for a very sharp rate.

Perhaps the Labour Minister will consider legislative change... lets call it the "AC Two Fingers Act".
It really annoys me when people who have jobs, and are on pretty good rates (in the case of AC well above the market rate), still complain and moan, and yet there are those without work who would happily do their jobs for a fraction of the pay and conditions... nothing but short-sighted greed.
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idjim319
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:06 am

Per mmedfords post....

Well it raises a point. When you don't care if you hurt others to achieve your own goal, whether or not it is legal or moral.....it is to teach a lesson to tell you about what my presence means......I'll teach you a lesson.......

It sounds an awful lot like what terrorists believe. I'll do what I want to get my way and the hell with anyone who is affected by the negative fallout. My point is the point and you shall listen......

Sad we see this in other societies and shun it but fail to see it in our own.

We don't accept that in our society. We have reason to reject that behaviour.
 
aerohottie
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:09 am

Quoting mmedford (Reply 8):
Look at the NYC MTA strike from several years ago, damn near shut down the city. Management and the city was taught a pretty good lesson after that.

REALLY?!? Management and the CITY were taught a lesson....
Perhaps there should be a clause in collective contracts that state that unions are freely able to take industrial action at any time, but have to reimburse the company and all those impacted for the costs incurred by such action.

That shouldn't make it too hard to bankrupt any unions that think holding their employers to ransom is a right...
I bet the unions would be very eager to bargain in good faith with such a clause...

[Edited 2012-03-22 21:13:27]
What?
 
Whiteguy
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:15 am

They didn't walk because of the contract negots.

A couple ramp guys clapped sarcastically as Lisa Raitt walked by and AC corporate security, who were escorting her, grabbed them and fired them on the spot.

That's why the rest of the employees walked!
 
AirCanada787
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:16 am

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 1):

Good for them! While probably illegal it shows they will not be bullied by our travesty of a federal labour minister.

I'm actually not a fan of unions but I have to agree. Good for them the whole situation has been a bit of a circus with parties constantly involved that shouldn't be. No one group is at fault but its been clear for sometime that nothing positive was really going to happen. That said, I hope that they make a point tonight and it is business as usual in the morning. Maybe the union was just trying to yank the managements chain so to speak.

Quoting idjim319 (Reply 10):
It sounds an awful lot like what terrorists believe. I'll do what I want to get my way and the hell with anyone who is affected by the negative fallout. My point is the point and you shall listen......

Sad we see this in other societies and shun it but fail to see it in our own.

We don't accept that in our society. We have reason to reject that behaviour.

To compare these actions to terrorists is quite frankly, distasteful in my opinion. This action by ground staff will never have near the results that a terrorist attack or organization could result in.
The mind, like a parachute, functions only when open.
 
AirCanada787
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:20 am

According to this article the employees were asked to return to work and ignored the request.

Several flights at Toronto's Pearson International Airport have been delayed after Air Canada ground crews walked off the job late Thursday night.

A reporter with Toronto's CP24 said about 150 crew members at the airport's Terminal 1 had launched a wildcat strike.

Passenger Elana Camille, who had flown to Toronto from Calgary, said she waited on the tarmac for about an hour before she could start to disembark.

She said none of the passengers were told what was happening.

"I only found out about it on Twitter," she told CTVNews.ca by phone.

A union representative asked the striking crew members to go back to work, but the request was ignored.

The federal government has passed back-to-work legislation that prevents Air Canada employees from striking. The bill covers about 8,600 mechanics, baggage handlers and other ground crew at Air Canada and about 3,000 pilots.

Last week, pilots threatened to call in sick as a response to the legislation, and Air Canada later confirmed "higher-than-usual" pilot book-offs over the weekend.


http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories...ew-walk-off-job-in-toronto-120322/
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WestJet747
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:20 am

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 12):
They didn't walk because of the contract negots.

A couple ramp guys clapped sarcastically as Lisa Raitt walked by and AC corporate security, who were escorting her, grabbed them and fired them on the spot.

That's why the rest of the employees walked!

The 3 were suspended, not fired, according to the CBC.
Flying refined.
 
aerohottie
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:25 am

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 12):
A couple ramp guys clapped sarcastically as Lisa Raitt walked by and AC corporate security, who were escorting her, grabbed them and fired them on the spot.

And rightly so... it is absolutely professional misconduct to treat any customer of the company in such a manner, and they were rightly sacked on the spot (suspended I think???). It is entirely inappropriate to display personal political actions while being employed to carry out professional tasks on behalf of the employer.

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 12):
That's why the rest of the employees walked!

So they are sulking because the company upheld a minimum professional standard???...
A standard of professional conduct which is clearly communicated to staff and agreed to when an offer of employment is accepted...

Quoting AirCanada787 (Reply 13):
To compare these actions to terrorists is quite frankly, distasteful in my opinion. This action by ground staff will never have near the results that a terrorist attack or organization could result in.

idjim319 wasn't referring to the outcome of the action, but rather the mindset. And in that regard was not distasteful at all, and actually very accurate in my opinion.

[Edited 2012-03-22 21:26:39]

[Edited 2012-03-22 21:27:15]
What?
 
Skydrol
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:35 am

Quoting idjim319 (Reply 6):
Congratulations YYZ rampies..... you've stranded folks on airplanes. Just think on that there are humans in those airplanes with children with them, job interviews to make, dying family members, funerals, weddings and life to get to. They bought their tickets in good faith. The idea of using innocent people to have your wishes/demands met sounds by definition like something our society does not ethically or morally support. If you don't see it this way then maybe you need to actually think.

The damage this is doing to the brand, the customer loyalty, the credibility of that company is unbelievable. It is pushing AC ever closer to CCAA and is maybe what needs to happen. If these folks' goal is unemployment, then they are certainly going about it the right way.

Would instantly terminating employment of those involved in this wildcat strike send the correct message to other Air Canada employees?



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Whiteguy
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:35 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 15):
Quoting whiteguy (Reply 12):
They didn't walk because of the contract negots.

A couple ramp guys clapped sarcastically as Lisa Raitt walked by and AC corporate security, who were escorting her, grabbed them and fired them on the spot.

That's why the rest of the employees walked!

The 3 were suspended, not fired, according to the CBC.


Your right thanks!
 
sebring
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:39 am

Quoting mmedford (Reply 3):
cs ago) and read 449 times:

Quoting flyyul (Reply 2):
Do AC employees realize that they are putting their jobs/careers on the line with this type of behaviour?

What choice did they have?

Management wouldn't negotiate in good faith, and the government is siding with management instead of ordering fair arbirition.

The company has made its final offer.

There is no obligation in labour law to keep giving, giving and giving to the union.

The mediator who presided over the negotiations that led to a tentative agreement the workers turned down called it very fair and professionally negotiated. The workers got wage increases totalling nine percent.

We're not talking about an airline that is making mega-bucks.

As for the walkout tonight, it had only a modest impact, a few flights arriving and outbound were delayed at the gate. All will be cleared by 1 a.m.

Tomorrow the airline will go to the Canada Labour Relations Board for an cease and desist order that will likely apply to all Toronto airport employees, on all shifts, meaning any repeat performances will lead to suspensions without pay or dismissal.
 
sebring
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:41 am

Quoting mmedford (Reply 8):

Not if my goal is to show how important I am to your operation. If I remove myself; when you need me the most.You will suffer and see what my presence to the company means.

Ramp workers aren't pilots. Many AC ramp workers, like those of US legacy carriers, are lifers. I'm sure AC management would dance a hora if it could fire them with cause because of an illegal strike and replace them with young people on entry level wages.
 
idjim319
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:43 am

Quoting aerohottie (Reply 16):
So they are sulking because the company upheld a minimum professional standard???...
A standard of professional conduct which is clearly communicated to staff and agreed to when an offer of employment is accepted...

This is the crux of the problem. These staff members, lazing about under a union leadership mentality of entitlement, forget who actually pays their wages. They forget these customers fares pay their gas bills, water bills, rent or mortgage, kids school fees, their car insurance..... At the end of the day it is not Montreal head office paying their wages. AC can, and if this continues, stop paying wages to staff. Shutting down a private company is entirely reasonable for shareholders. If you don't think so, did anyone note what just happened at Aveos. I believe those unions employees are now unemployed?

Honestly can these people not connect the paying customer to their own daily lives? Is it that big of a stretch? Well, I'm sure Westjet's employees will... by way of fat bonus cheques....due to the profits and market share coming their way. In that respect if it happens, then well done.
 
MLD9S
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:49 am

Quoting idjim319 (Reply 6):
Yes it appears it is happening based on all of the reports. Congratulations YYZ rampies..... you've stranded folks on airplanes. Just think on that there are humans in those airplanes with children with them, job interviews to make, dying family members, funerals, weddings and life to get to.

Oh please... stop being so dramatic.

Everyone on any airplane is flying for a reason.... whether it be for a funeral, to see a dying family member, a business meeting or a vacation.

No one boards an airplane just for the fun of boarding an airplane (except some aneters flying for free).

No one's reason for being on an airplane is more important than the next person. Everyone wanted to be on that plane for a reason.

Dying family member, honeymoon, business meeting or meeting someone from the internet.... dont play that card. It's just silly. Everyone was traveling for a reason.
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idjim319
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:59 am

Quoting MLD9S (Reply 22):
Oh please... stop being so dramatic.

Everyone on any airplane is flying for a reason.... whether it be for a funeral, to see a dying family member, a business meeting or a vacation.

No one boards an airplane just for the fun of boarding an airplane (except some aneters flying for free).

No one's reason for being on an airplane is more important than the next person. Everyone wanted to be on that plane for a reason.

Dying family member, honeymoon, business meeting or meeting someone from the internet.... dont play that card. It's just silly. Everyone was traveling for a reason.
Quoting MLD9S (Reply 22):
Oh please... stop being so dramatic.

Everyone on any airplane is flying for a reason.... whether it be for a funeral, to see a dying family member, a business meeting or a vacation.

No one boards an airplane just for the fun of boarding an airplane (except some aneters flying for free).

No one's reason for being on an airplane is more important than the next person. Everyone wanted to be on that plane for a reason.

Dying family member, honeymoon, business meeting or meeting someone from the internet.... dont play that card. It's just silly. Everyone was traveling for a reason.
Quoting MLD9S (Reply 22):
Oh please... stop being so dramatic.

Everyone on any airplane is flying for a reason.... whether it be for a funeral, to see a dying family member, a business meeting or a vacation.

No one boards an airplane just for the fun of boarding an airplane (except some aneters flying for free).

No one's reason for being on an airplane is more important than the next person. Everyone wanted to be on that plane for a reason.

Dying family member, honeymoon, business meeting or meeting someone from the internet.... dont play that card. It's just silly. Everyone was traveling for a reason.

Well quite right. You are clever aren't you. I see you've been thinking.

And these people, all of whom buy a ticket in a valid contract with an airline....do you think they also agree to be held ransom by rogue union staff? Put yourself in the passengers shoes for a second: would you enjoy this? Would you feel the airline failed to deliver on their contract of good service? Does your time and inconvenience mean anything to you if someone decides to simply intervene and take it?? Do you not want what you paid for?

Why people fly is a factor of living in a modern world -- but actually who these people are counts. This is why some companies have figured it all out. Who and why these people tick is import. Companies who make it work don't permit their employees to intervene in what their customers want or need. They deliver the goods. They get them moving and don't call people "dramatic" for having lives.
 
Skydrol
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:15 am

Quoting idjim319 (Reply 23):
And these people, all of whom buy a ticket in a valid contract with an airline....do you think they also agree to be held ransom by rogue union staff? Put yourself in the passengers shoes for a second: would you enjoy this? Would you feel the airline failed to deliver on their contract of good service? Does your time and inconvenience mean anything to you if someone decides to simply intervene and take it?? Do you not want what you paid for?

Why people fly is a factor of living in a modern world -- but actually who these people are counts. This is why some companies have figured it all out. Who and why these people tick is import. Companies who make it work don't permit their employees to intervene in what their customers want or need. They deliver the goods. They get them moving and don't call people "dramatic" for having lives.

Finally someone who doesn't just consider this situation from the side of the company, unions, employees, shareholders, or even the labor minister... but from the viewpoint of the customer! Thank you!!



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idjim319
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:22 am

Case in point.

I hope the minister or CLRB ends this.
 
YYZYYT
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:22 am

Quoting idjim319 (Reply 10):
Well it raises a point. When you don't care if you hurt others to achieve your own goal, whether or not it is legal or moral.....it is to teach a lesson to tell you about what my presence means......I'll teach you a lesson.......

Kinda' like when AC announced that it was locking out pilots on the Sunday of March break weekend?

Quoting idjim319 (Reply 10):
It sounds an awful lot like what terrorists believe. I'll do what I want to get my way and the hell with anyone who is affected by the negative fallout. My point is the point and you shall listen......
Quoting idjim319 (Reply 6):
Canada is being held to ransom by AC's unions who show time and time again they're only looking for more for little delivery or quality of service.

This is a constant refrain. Collective bargaining is a necessary and valuable part of our economic system, as it lessens (somewhat) the disparity in bargaining power between the employeer and employee. Particulatly when the employer is a large one like AC. Why is it a "good" thing for an employer to be able to say "we pay what we want" and "we do to you what we want"... but a horrible thing for the workers to want to stand up to that?

More importantly: the right to unionize and bargain collectively - and if necessary to strike - is a legal right in this country (notwithstanding what the current government in Ottawa thinks).

Which brings me to the point below:

Quoting sebring (Reply 19):
Tomorrow the airline will go to the Canada Labour Relations Board for an cease and desist order that will likely apply to all Toronto airport employees, on all shifts, meaning any repeat performances will lead to suspensions without pay or dismissal.

I'm sure you are right, AC will be off to the CLRB tomorrow, but as discussed elsewhere the unions have their own court application underway, to have the federal government's referal to the CLRB delcared to be a violation of their rights. I come at ths problem from a legal perspective, and I have to say that I think that the unions may have a point. There is a clear process for essential workers, who do not have the right to strike. But they do gain other rights instead (and as was recently ponited out in a debate in Toronto) these workers usually get terms that are as good or better than they might otherwise have. If the government feels that these workers are essential, then it should take the necessary action and declare them as such. But instead it is using a legal loopgole to cut off a right to strike.

And by so doing, it is setting the stage for disruption and discord going forward IMHO. A strike or actual lock out would have been hard on both sides and would have forced them back to a meaningful resolution sooner, not later.
 
idjim319
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:37 am

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 29):
Kinda' like when AC announced that it was locking out pilots on the Sunday of March break weekend?

Well I suppose AC mgmt has obligations to other groups than the pilots. Perhaps they may even be thinking about shareholders who actually have this whole thing hanging on their shoulders -- they have the finances keeping them up at night not a pilot on layover in SYD making several hundred grand. Or maybe AC management actually is trying to run an airline and deliver service that is competitive? Maybe AC realizes that, despite AC pilots belief that they are the only show in town, there are some folks in their 30s with the skills to fly a 777 and who don't need to make vast salaries for what....a diploma and several years earned? Sorry, it isn't that vast a skill set.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:46 am

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 1):
Good for them! While probably illegal it shows they will not be bullied by our travesty of a federal labour minister.

Agreed!

Quoting flyyul (Reply 2):
Do AC employees realize that they are putting their jobs/careers on the line with this type of behaviour?


Does AC HQ realize they are putting ALL AC jobs on the line by their inability to run a profitable carrier? It is ultimately the job of MANAGEMENT to foster a good working relationship with employees and to lead the generation of profits. Big failures here.

Quoting idjim319 (Reply 6):
The labour minister has stated she notes AC's unions behave peculiarly -- they elect people to represent them then reject anything they bring back -- apparently negotiated in good faith.
Quoting whiteguy (Reply 12):
A couple ramp guys clapped sarcastically as Lisa Raitt walked by and AC corporate security, who were escorting her, grabbed them and fired them on the spot.

That's why the rest of the employees walked!

I can't believe Lisa Raitt has the audacity to fly AC during this period. She should show some respect and keep her distance from AC for the time being.

Quoting aerohottie (Reply 16):
And rightly so... it is absolutely professional misconduct to treat any customer of the company in such a manner, and they were rightly sacked on the spot (suspended I think???).

Lisa Raitt is hardly a typical customer. In one fell swoop she has denied these unionized employees the right to strike. She is union enemy #1. And for many true conservatives such as me who don't believe in governments interfering in private companies, she is a huge disappointment to us also.

Quoting sebring (Reply 19):
The company has made its final offer.

There is no obligation in labour law to keep giving, giving and giving to the union.
Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 29):
Collective bargaining is a necessary and valuable part of our economic system, as it lessens (somewhat) the disparity in bargaining power between the employeer and employee.
Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 29):
the right to unionize and bargain collectively - and if necessary to strike - is a legal right in this country (notwithstanding what the current government in Ottawa thinks).

Well said YYZYYT. Right on the mark. Let AC employees strike if they want.
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idjim319
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:56 am

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 34):
Right on the mark. Let AC employees strike if they want.

Probably the most inconsistent thing you've posted. In one breathe you say how AC is so inefficient and lazy. Now you want them to strike?? Yes I have no doubt YUL knows the risks. There are MANY non union employees who have worked their asses off this past year during the labour mayhem. There are many who busted their humps when the agents decided they need to strike. Literally days and nights in support of the operation and customer service. These are the ones and only ones who deserve job security.

Excuse me? Lisa Raitt is a customer full stop. FULL STOP! How much did her flight cost? How rude. Clearly WJ doesn't provide the service she wants so she flies AC. She deserves less service for her fare?? There you go.... you can see this brain power in action. Don't ever take that attitude that a customer is inferior. This is exactly the issue. The customer IS the issue.
 
Whiteguy
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:00 am

Quoting idjim319 (Reply 31):
they have the finances keeping them up at night not a pilot on layover in SYD making several hundred grand.

Or making sure Calin gets his $5 million bonus at the end of March!

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 34):
I can't believe Lisa Raitt has the audacity to fly AC during this period. She should show some respect and keep her distance from AC for the time being.

She has no respect, prime example is accepting an upgrade from Duncan Dee after forcing the FAs back to work!

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 34):
Does AC HQ realize they are putting ALL AC jobs on the line by their inability to run a profitable carrier? It is ultimately the job of MANAGEMENT to foster a good working relationship with employees and to lead the generation of profits. Big failures here.

  
 
saloman
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:31 pm

RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:02 am

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 29):
More importantly: the right to unionize and bargain collectively - and if necessary to strike - is a legal right in this country (notwithstanding what the current government in Ottawa thinks).

Not quite. The leading reference case on the issue "Reference re Public Service Employee Relations Act (Alta.)" ruled that there was no charter right to strike. So while you may not agree with the Federal Govt's action, it is lawful.
 
idjim319
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:52 am

RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:13 am

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 36):

Quoting idjim319 (Reply 31):
they have the finances keeping them up at night not a pilot on layover in SYD making several hundred grand.

Or making sure Calin gets his $5 million bonus at the end of March!

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 34):
I can't believe Lisa Raitt has the audacity to fly AC during this period. She should show some respect and keep her distance from AC for the time being.

She has no respect, prime example is accepting an upgrade from Duncan Dee after forcing the FAs back to work!

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 34):
Does AC HQ realize they are putting ALL AC jobs on the line by their inability to run a profitable carrier? It is ultimately the job of MANAGEMENT to foster a good working relationship with employees and to lead the generation of profits. Big failures here.

Well I'll give it to you frankly, the job of management is to turn a profit on the enterprise. They hardly manage that don't you think. Do you really believe giving a massive pay raise to anyone in that company will result in massive profit increases?? I used to work for AC in a union and will tell you frankly that paying more will only lead to more losses. There is no hope.....I once had an agent refuse to push a wheelchair because she also had a purse....too much weight.

I once, in the legacy of Canadian Airlines...announced he was boarding the flight by religion. Nope. No chance of discipline. The union protection wouldn't allow that. BTW... that was CP!


How do you run an airline. .... Pilots who delay flights because they don't like the choice of their hot meals, not enough fruit or water for inflight staff, not good enough meals for pilots who are drafted, ramp guys who are too busy in the lunch room to receive a flight from overseas that comes early because it wasn't scheduled.


How do you run a business. How?
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1022
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:18 am

Quoting idjim319 (Reply 35):
There are MANY non union employees who have worked their asses off this past year during the labour mayhem.

And there are many union employees that have busted their butts for years for the company. Yet most of these employees are labelled as lazy union employees! Yes there are a few bad apples but they are the minority.

Quoting idjim319 (Reply 35):
There are many who busted their humps when the agents decided they need to strike. Literally days and nights in support of the operation and customer service. These are the ones and only ones who deserve job security.

Yeah they literally worked 2 days in support of the operation. So they are the only ones that deserve job security? AC agents are doing the job every single day, yet they don't deserve job protection???? That's rich!!!
 
Skydrol
Posts: 1053
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 12:01 pm

RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:20 am

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 34):
''profitable'', ''MANAGEMENT'', ''employees'', ''generation of profits'', ''Lisa Raitt'', ''unionized employees'', ''union enemy #1'', ''giving to the union.'', ''Let AC employees strike if they want.''

Neil,
Where have you been for the last three hours?

Note the keywords quoted above and compare with what I posted in reply 27:

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 27):
Finally someone who doesn't just consider this situation from the side of the company, unions, employees, shareholders, or even the labor minister... but from the viewpoint of the customer!

It is only idjim319 that gets it????

Quoting idjim319 (Reply 23):
And these people, all of whom buy a ticket in a valid contract with an airline....do you think they also agree to be held ransom by rogue union staff? Put yourself in the passengers shoes for a second: would you enjoy this? Would you feel the airline failed to deliver on their contract of good service? Does your time and inconvenience mean anything to you if someone decides to simply intervene and take it?? Do you not want what you paid for?

Why people fly is a factor of living in a modern world -- but actually who these people are counts. This is why some companies have figured it all out. Who and why these people tick is import. Companies who make it work don't permit their employees to intervene in what their customers want or need. They deliver the goods. They get them moving and don't call people "dramatic" for having lives.

LD4
∙ ---{--« ∙ ----{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ---{--« ∙ --{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ----{--« ∙
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7205
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:33 am

Just my 02 cents and leaving Management, Unions, negotiations and Lisa Raitt out of it, but if I'm understanding this correctly, a couple of yahoos acted inappropriately and unprofessional, they get disciplined and then more yahoos stage illegal work stoppage in response to the suspensions? If that's the case, not only should the strikees be losing their jobs but they had better be banned from the Union as well. I could understand a wildcat strike in response to the Government stepping in and passing some legislation, but taking illegal action to support employees that screwed up, unacceptable.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1022
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:33 am

Quoting idjim319 (Reply 38):
How do you run an airline. .... Pilots who delay flights because they don't like the choice of their hot meals, not enough fruit or water for inflight staff, not good enough meals for pilots who are drafted, ramp guys who are too busy in the lunch room to receive a flight from overseas that comes early because it wasn't scheduled.

Everything you have listed is rumored to have happened before but they are few and far between. Don't make it sound like stuff that happens on a regular basis.

There are many examples of employees going above and beyond in their job but you don't hear about it. Why? Because that airplane is clean, their bag did make it's 2 min connect, their flight was on time, the crew went past their duty day by 15 mins......
 
idjim319
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:52 am

RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:35 am

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 39):
And there are many union employees that have busted their butts for years for the company. Yet most of these employees are labelled as lazy union employees! Yes there are a few bad apples but they are the minority.

Well, I suggest to you here and now!..this is the time. I agree. I worked my bloody ass off in pride only to be outdone by a slacker who lowered the bar for us all! Stand up and tell your union then, not me. Yup for sure most AC employees are great but the unions shelter some really bad, bad staff. These folks just walked off the job and undermined everyone's job security.


Yes there are a few bad apples, but until the laws change, AC cannot get rid of them. SPEAK UP! I thank god now I'm not unionized, I had to leave the company. If I were still at AC I'd be giving hell to my union to get its act together.

I remember working a flight with the best staff in the world. I was a purser and every FA pulled it out. I had the most amazing compliments coming to me as I walked around at the end. It was solely down to staff. I defy you to compare that to the flight I had with hags who dragged garbage bags through the aisle throwing trays in the garbage and daring me to report them.... I had no recourse....they were union and their attitude....f'off.

You tell me.
 
kfitz
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:47 am

RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:40 am

Good for them. The company has been sliming them for years now.

Those playing the sympathy card should get real.
 
VonRichtofen
Posts: 4262
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:41 am

Wow this is embarrassing....
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7205
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:48 am

Quoting kfitz (Reply 44):
Good for them. The company has been sliming them for years now.

Those playing the sympathy card should get real.

You should read the link provided in reply 15 so you understand why some employees walked off the job. If anyone should get real, its the strikees.

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 45):
Wow this is embarrassing....

  
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
idjim319
Posts: 44
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:56 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 46):
You should read the link provided in reply 15 so you understand why some employees walked off the job. If anyone should get real, its the strikees.

Anyone who went on strike should ... and I hope..... will lose their job. There's really no excuse for a ramp guy behaving this way unless he/she has a massive share in the company. Done. There's no excuse to defy the entity who pays your wages and from whom you accept money. The contract is done. Goodbye. If you're prepared to accept the pay deposit in your account then you're prepared to work to earn it. There's really no need to argue details.
 
kfitz
Posts: 140
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:12 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 46):

Good for them. I applaud them.
 
bjorn14
Posts: 3552
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:57 am

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 34):
Lisa Raitt is hardly a typical customer.

Whether typical or not she deserves the same respect as my 92-year old Grandma. These hosers are lucky they only got suspended. The others even refused their own union's order to come back to work. I hope the union AND AC bring down the hammer.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7205
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:33 am

Quoting kfitz (Reply 48):
Good for them. I applaud them.


So, you applaud employees who take illegal work stoppage in support towards other employees that screwed up and are being appropriately disciplined? Investigating and possibly filing grievances is what the Union is there for, not wildcat strikes or any strike for that matter. Let the Union do its job and get back to yours.

Quoting idjim319 (Reply 47):
Anyone who went on strike should ... and I hope..... will lose their job.


And as I posted earlier, should be banned from the Union as well. Even if they were trying to make a point because Lisa Raitt was there, this is not the way it should be done. Start demonstrations, start petitions, start getting the public on your side, start informing the public how this kind of legislation effects them and themselves, but for the love of God, don't piss off the people you are trying to garnish support from.

It'll be quite interesting to see what the Union comes up for a statement, if they stand behind it or condone it.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 49):
Whether typical or not she deserves the same respect as my 92-year old Grandma. These hosers are lucky they only got suspended. The others even refused their own union's order to come back to work. I hope the union AND AC bring down the hammer.

 checkmark 

[Edited 2012-03-23 01:36:14]
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
crosswinds21
Posts: 163
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:46 pm

RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:48 am

Quoting mmedford (Reply 3):
What choice did they have?

How about the choice of getting another job if they are unhappy with the terms of their existing one?
 
ACDC8
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:33 am

Quoting crosswinds21 (Reply 51):
How about the choice of getting another job if they are unhappy with the terms of their existing one?

Have you ever seen the reaction you get from a Union Thumper when you tell them where the door is or if they don't like their new contract that they have other options for employment? Its an expression that you'll never forget and involves shades of red one has never seen before  
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
YOWVIEWER
Posts: 52
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:17 am

Well, after all the threads on the AC debacle on this site, reading so much from both sides of the story, and this morning hearing the massive "roars" of support from the strikers at Pearson to any pilots, flight attendants, etc. that may walk past it is now time to "shut 'er down" boys & girls. Such bad blood is now well beyond repair, and at the point that you would have to be crazy to even book a flight with AC out of fear it will never leave the ground.
 
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yyz717
Posts: 15689
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:52 am

Quoting idjim319 (Reply 35):
Quoting yyz717 (Reply 34):
Right on the mark. Let AC employees strike if they want.

Probably the most inconsistent thing you've posted. In one breathe you say how AC is so inefficient and lazy. Now you want them to strike??

Yes, all unionized employees deserve the right to strike. i hate unions but we all must respect the collective bargaining process.

Quoting idjim319 (Reply 35):
Excuse me? Lisa Raitt is a customer full stop. FULL STOP! How much did her flight cost? How rude.

Her flight was paid by the tax payers and by flying AC now, she is personally fanning the flames of AC union discontent.

Quoting idjim319 (Reply 38):
How do you run a business. How?

Don't ask AC management. They don't know.

Well, this event leaves WS as the largest network carrier with mission specific hubs flying as usual at YYZ and YUL. A great opportunity for AC customers to experience Westjet and Porter and AA and DL and.......
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
jamincan
Posts: 572
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RE: Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ

Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:00 pm

I agree with YOWVIEWER. The bad blood is so obvious, I find it hard to believe that a working relationship with employees can ever be restored at AC. This is a failure of both management and employees.