AIR MALTA
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IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:31 am

In another move to secure the deal, IAG is ready to relinquish 14 (up from 10) slots to any competitor wanting to operate from London to Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Manchester or Riyadh, according to FT.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/5b22a...0-7442-11e1-9951-00144feab49a.html

I think 14 is too much and might make the deal less attractive.
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nighthawk
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:17 am

Quoting AIR MALTA (Thread starter):
I think 14 is too much and might make the deal less attractive.

Less attractive to who? It is IAG offering to give up 14 slots, so obviously they think it is attractive enough. If anything, I think the competition and regulators might think 14 is not enough...
 
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Dano1977
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:24 am

Well that puts the ball back in Virgins side of the court. Lets see if all the hot air actually leads to something, or not.

I'm still waiting for the Glasgow-New York service from Virgin... Which Branson said he would start if BA ever cancelled its service.
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mikey72
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:26 am

This 'person' at the EU should remember the 'mess' the continent is in and stop standing in the way of the necessary 'healing process' going on within the airline industry.

IAG having to relinquish 14 slots for competitors on the Scottish routes is like giving your postman a Ferrari for Christmas and telling him he has to pay for the upkeep, insurance etc etc..................

This is just delaying it for the sake of delaying it.

Someone involved in this process likes to feel important !
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MillwallSean
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:39 am

Quoting Dano1977 (Reply 2):
Well that puts the ball back in Virgins side of the court. Lets see if all the hot air actually leads to something, or not.

I'm still waiting for the Glasgow-New York service from Virgin... Which Branson said he would start if BA ever cancelled its service.

First the discussion is between the Eu and the parties that reported this deal. branson doesnt have a seat at the table.

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 3):
This 'person' at the EU should remember the 'mess' the continent is in and stop standing in the way of the necessary 'healing process' going on within the airline industry.

Can you at least try to contribute. I know you love BA and think all they want is better than best. But we have to at least try to be objective. 14 slots is a fair deal. 4 destinations that we might see airlines take up. If Virgin want these they are welcome to start these routes. They wont of course...
Maybe NAS air will, maybe Saudia. But who would start LHR-MAN, EDI or GLA?
And wouldnt BA be well of even if the disposed of 14 slots.

I remember I said that we would see about 18 slots divested if any takers are found for this deal to go through when it was announced. Ill stick to that prediction.

And FYI The person in charge of this is from an EU memberstate thats twice as rich as the UK, has very little debt and has an economy thats been growing for the last decade. The UK has the fourth highest debt per citizen of all EU members, a stagnant economy and an increasing unemployment. Food for thought...
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RyanairGuru
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:43 am

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 1):
It is IAG offering to give up 14 slots, so obviously they think it is attractive enough

Like the slots they had to give DL after BA-AA they will probably be use them or return. Safe in the knowledge that no one is interested in entering the market they can offer slots for new services to Scotland and then use them for their own expansion.

Riyadh is just provocative... given that SU is on the route I doubt there are competition concerns, and there is practically no way that VS could succeed in Saudi Arabia without a major re-branding (ie changing their name!).
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mikey72
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:51 am

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 4):
And FYI The person in charge of this is from an EU memberstate thats twice as rich as the UK, has very little debt and has an economy thats been growing for the last decade. The UK has the fourth highest debt per citizen of all EU members, a stagnant economy and an increasing unemployment. Food for thought...

Oh please, spare me. That just makes the whole thing even more nauseous.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 4):
Can you at least try to contribute. I know you love BA and think all they want is better than best. But we have to at least try to be objective. 14 slots is a fair deal.

No it's not it's a con. The whole thing stinks. Business is business.

Even with the BD slots IAG are still at a diasdvantage to LH and AF groups.

But I guess a micro-climate of competiiton within the EU has suddenly been constructed to judge this deal on.

The EU has been a drag on anything inlvolving BA from the word go. Look at anti-trust and how long that took while Air France and Lufthansa forged ahead.

Like I said....it stinks.
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EI564
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:52 am

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 3):
G having to relinquish 14 slots for competitors on the Scottish routes is like giving your postman a Ferrari for Christmas and telling him he has to pay for the upkeep, insurance etc etc..................

Its quite clever in some ways though. If nobody is willing to operate the routes then presumably IAG keeps the slots.

I presume BA got back the MIA-LHR slots after DL dropped the route?
 
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:00 am

Quoting EI564 (Reply 7):
I presume BA got back the MIA-LHR slots after DL dropped the route?

I believe not. Those slot were transferable according to previous threads on this issue. It's the BOS slots that are not transferable.

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Dano1977
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:15 am

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 4):

Well seeings virgin and SRB are the only ones to have come forward (in public anyway) this has everything to do with them.

IAG offer the slots in hope of a quick resolution to the EU proceedings and hope it can be resolved before BMi run out of cash at the end of march and lufthansa pull the plug making 4000 people unemployed.

Now we will see if SRB is the consumer champion he claims to be, or not.
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lhr380
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:25 am

Quoting Dano1977 (Reply 9):

He has gone on enough times about starting Scottish routes if IAG did not get the deal, id love to see what he does with this new change.
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TeamintheSky
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:35 am

If Virgin doesn't take these, do you thinking someone like AF-KL (through CityJet) would be interested?
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:37 am

Quoting Dano1977 (Reply 9):
Now we will see if SRB is the consumer champion he claims to be, or not.
Quoting lhr380 (Reply 10):
He has gone on enough times about starting Scottish routes if IAG did not get the deal, id love to see what he does with this new change.

we all know it's never going to happen, it was nothing more than a publicity stunt. He always makes these outlandish claims, knowing full well he will never need to act on them. Now he's been called on it, he will find some excuse to weasel out of it.

Although in fairness this time he will need to weasel out of it, there is no way Virgin can set up a short haul division to operate 14 weekly flights, and I doubt they will be willing to use an A330 on domestic flights!

If the bmi regional sale goes through, I wonder if they may consider taking on the Aberdeen-LHR slots?

Edit: Actually come to think of it, bmi regional would be a good bet to take all the domestic slots, then operate on behalf of Virgin... potentially a nice little earner for the new owners (if it ever gets new owners!)

[Edited 2012-03-23 03:39:24]
 
MAH4546
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:45 am

Quoting gemuser (Reply 8):
Quoting EI564 (Reply 7):
I presume BA got back the MIA-LHR slots after DL dropped the route?

I believe not. Those slot were transferable according to previous threads on this issue. It's the BOS slots that are not transferable.


The slot is not transferable and returns to IAG/AA next month.
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bastew
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:49 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 5):
Like the slots they had to give DL after BA-AA they will probably be use them or return. Safe in the knowledge that no one is interested in entering the market they can offer slots for new services to Scotland and then use them for their own expansion.

But Ryanair these concessions are in response to Virgin and the Scottish MP's issue that they have raised with the EU.....that BA will be in a monopoly position on the routes mentioned. So BA are now saying 'OK if thats the concern, then here are 14 daily slots for a competitor (ie VS) to enter the market and compete with us'. Surely that is fair? Unles of course SRB's goings-ons about his 'concern' for scottish passengers and his intention to start up London-Scotland services is really just a bunch of old cobblers.
 
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MillwallSean
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:56 am

Quoting Dano1977 (Reply 9):

Well seeings virgin and SRB are the only ones to have come forward (in public anyway) this has everything to do with them.

IAG offer the slots in hope of a quick resolution to the EU proceedings and hope it can be resolved before BMi run out of cash at the end of march and lufthansa pull the plug making 4000 people unemployed.

Now we will see if SRB is the consumer champion he claims to be, or not.

Im really curious on what make you say that?
have you perhaps read anything from brusells that point to virgin. i have read everything there is to read about this and there is ZERO mentions about Virgin.

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 6):
Oh please, spare me. That just makes the whole thing even more nauseous.

And why not expand on why?
Pointing out that your favourite pet is better looking than the neighbours pet leads nowhere.
In this case LH and BA will be able to conclude a deal if they want to. They have to offer enough remedies to satisfy a competition watchdog and 18 slots seems like a fair deal to most industry observers.
To get a deal done they need to satisfy the laws of UK and the EU. They dont differ much if you bothered to read them...
Facts is always more interesting than fanboys so if you disagree point out why and whats your reasoning behind that is.
Do you belive competition will be helped by a monopoly on the scottish routes to LHR?

But sure business is business, lets put BA out of business for good then. Im not sure you remember but BA couldnt survive on their own and had to get government bailouts.
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mikey72
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:57 am

It's just aswell LH are invloved because otherswise the the deal wouldn't have stood a snowballs chance in hell.

(not with the EU judging it anyway)

The deal would of been blocked and the slots gone to the gulf carriers with their bottomless pits of cash.

(which is still a possibility and would further exasperate the problems at LHR for UK citizens)

It's quite amusing actually because LH and BA are singing from the same hymn sheet on this one.
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lhr380
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:57 am

Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 11):

Would city jet really want to go into the LHR market and operate domestics? They do well out of LCY, but LHR is a different ball game, would they have the onward feed to make it worthwhile?

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 12):

I know Gav, this is the first time I really think his luff has been called. He has gone in guns blazing,and now with IAG offering these slots, he will have to come up with a good reason to not start......

Out of interest, what is he on the VS board? It's always him being vocal but does he have that much influence to make changes like this on the VS board? I could look it up, but I have you lot for that  
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Gemuser
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:12 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
The slot is not transferable and returns to IAG/AA next month.

Got a reference? I have no opinion, was just reporting on what was on earlier threads.

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TeamintheSky
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:18 am

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 17):
Would city jet really want to go into the LHR market and operate domestics? They do well out of LCY, but LHR is a different ball game, would they have the onward feed to make it worthwhile?

If they could go into Term 4, they would be open to go East on KL/AF/AZ and West on DL. I highly doubt it happening as the CityJet model works well for them currently, but I think it is more likely seeing them operate the routes than Virgin.
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lhr380
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:22 am

Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 19):

Good point, but then it would dilute the KL/AF routes that they operate from domestic airports (and yea, more likely them then VS)
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MAH4546
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:22 am

Quoting gemuser (Reply 18):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
The slot is not transferable and returns to IAG/AA next month.

Got a reference? I have no opinion, was just reporting on what was on earlier threads.



You are confusing it with the provision that allows an airline to use the MIA-LHR slot as an MIA-XXX-LHR same plane service after 2014.

The slot returns to IAG/AA.

Not to mention that if DL got to keep the slot, wouldn't it be using the slot after April 15? It's not (the new ATLLHR flight slot comes from KLM).

[Edited 2012-03-23 04:24:46]
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jfk777
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:34 am

BA's offer is one with little demand. WHO is going to fly fro LHR to Scotland ? Ryannair ? Easy Jet ?
 
vv701
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:52 am

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 1):
. If anything, I think the competition and regulators might think 14 is not enough...

According to the independent LHR slot coordinator, Airport Coordination Ltd, as at 25 March - next Sunday - BD will be left with only 461 of its original 1,091 LHR weekly slots. This is after the transfer of 57 per cent of their original slot holding to LH (up from 406 to 776 weekly slots), LX (up from 84 to 182), SN (up from 0 to 50) and to LH's Star partner airlines. Check out this data for "Start S 2009" and "Start S 2012" here:

http://www.acl-uk.org/reportsStatistics.aspx?id=98&subjectId=33

So if 14 slots means 14 daily slots which is equivalent to 98 weekly slots, it represents a not insignificant proportion (over 21 per cent) of BD's remaining 461 slots.

With LH Group having absorbed more of BD's old slots (518) than BD will be left with on Sunday next (461) one might have expected VS to be protesting vehemently about what the Lufthansa Group has done. But, of course, Lufthansa Group is not BA. So there is no chance of that happening, particularly as LH's Star partner, SQ owns 49 per cent of VS.

If VS or any other airline takes up the offer outlined in the FT, BA (through the IAG purchase) will be left with 363 or just under one third of what was BD's slot holding. Whatever the decision of the competition authorities BD has already been totally emasculated. The sad thing about that is the number of BD staff whose job is on the line. Let's hope IAG are allowed to save a some of them.
 
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:25 pm

Quoting bastew (Reply 14):
But Ryanair these concessions are in response to Virgin and the Scottish MP's issue that they have raised with the EU.....that BA will be in a monopoly position on the routes mentioned. So BA are now saying 'OK if thats the concern, then here are 14 daily slots for a competitor (ie VS) to enter the market and compete with us'. Surely that is fair?

Yes it is and I think we agree in principle, it's just I didn't make it clear what I was getting at...

Yes, BA will have a monopoly from London to MAN/Scotland. The EU is (rightly) concerned about competition.

BA/IAG offers slots to speed things along in Brussels. If VS, BMI Regional or anyone else takes them, then BA have surely acted in good faith.

BUT it is unlikely anyone will, and BA know this. Therefore they are happy to put an offer to the EU to voluntarily divest slots given that it makes them look nice and they will probably end up with them anyway.
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:28 pm

Well this does throw it back at VS and it will be really interesting to see what thry come back with. Perhaps they will ask for at least double the slots, IAG will of course reject it and VS will blame IAG. Who knows where this is going!?

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 6):
No it's not it's a con. The whole thing stinks. Business is business.

Even with the BD slots IAG are still at a diasdvantage to LH and AF groups.

But I guess a micro-climate of competiiton within the EU has suddenly been constructed to judge this deal on.

The EU has been a drag on anything inlvolving BA from the word go. Look at anti-trust and how long that took while Air France and Lufthansa forged ahead.

Like I said....it stinks.

The EU have a job to do whether you like it or not.
 
bastew
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:39 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 24):
BUT it is unlikely anyone will, and BA know this. Therefore they are happy to put an offer to the EU to voluntarily divest slots given that it makes them look nice and they will probably end up with them anyway.

I think you've hit the nail on the head Ryanair. Virgin and the Scottish MP's complaints about a monopoly on Scottish/MAN routes is really just a smokescreen for the real issue.....which is that Virgin doesn't want BA getting any bigger/more dominant at LHR than it is. If THAT was the only issue the deal would have gone through weeks ago. Precedence has already been set by LH/LX/OS, AF/KL etc. But obviously the EU are dealing with the issue of anti-competitiveness based on the complaints by Virgin and the Scottish MP's specifically regarding competition on LHR-Scotland/MAN/RUH routes.

But we all know that is really a stupid arguement, and Virgin grasping at the only straw it could. It had one card to play and its trying to play it. IAG have offered a remedy to it. Here, take 14 daily slots and start those routes you say you would like the opportunity to compete with us on. But all Virgin really wants is to either a) have the deal scrapped. Or b) Be given a load of free slots to open up lucrative long haul routes....to basically get for gratis what BA is coughing up £172 million for.

But of course like you point out, no one will start services. Because despite the claim of there being 'no competition' the london - scotland market is extremely competitive. Easyjet, Jet2, Ryaniar, trains etc etc. The demand for LHR - Scotland services was demonstrated when BMI reduced the size of their aircraft from Airbuses to Embraer aircraft on many rotations....eventually ceasing service altogether on the LHR-GLA route.
 
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:52 pm

The reason competition authorities are concerned abou thet domination of BA at LHR is because there is no spare capacity for new entrants to enter the LHR market. In FRA, CDG and AMS there is plenty of capacity for any new entrant to start in these markets. This is known as barriers to entry. There is no doubt that at LHR the barrier to entry for a prospective new entrant is higher than FRA, CDG and AMS. It is not because of any anti-BA conspiracy or lets pick on Britain by any EU institution or country. The reason why there are high barriers to to entry is because the BRITISH people and the BRITISH government and BRITISH planning laws have prevented LHR from expanding. So maybe some people on the forum and British media should actually start to think rather than post/write emotional sentiment on the inadequacies of the EU and start writing about the inadequacies of UK society, politics and laws. EU can not control airport infrastructure but British government can by funding and allowing for expansion of UK airports. Look at EK and Dubai, look at KLM and AMS, none of these could have succeeded at being world hubs without the stance of local and national government to allow airport expansion. The EU can not do anything about that and especially the European Commission.
 
Gemuser
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:57 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
You are confusing it with the provision that allows an airline to use the MIA-LHR slot as an MIA-XXX-LHR same plane service after 2014.

So have I got this right?
Not only has DL given up a LHR slot, it has given up a slot it could have kept and turned into a MIA-XXX-LHR slot if it had been willing to wear the losses from MIA-LHR for another 18 or so months?

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skipness1E
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:59 pm

Cityjet are massively loss making at the mo. LHR would tip them over the edge......
 
MAH4546
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:01 pm

Quoting gemuser (Reply 28):
Not only has DL given up a LHR slot, it has given up a slot it could have kept and turned into a MIA-XXX-LHR slot if it had been willing to wear the losses from MIA-LHR for another 18 or so months?

Yes, but so what? The slot isn't free, Delta was paying market rates to IAG/AA to lease them.

But a slot from KLM? That is, indeed, free.
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vv701
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:37 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 30):
But a slot from KLM? That is, indeed, free.

Free? What do you think AF/KL stock holders would say about KL: management giving away their valuable asset to, effectively, DL stock holders?

Sell to DL at market prices? Certainly.

Lease at a resonable price? Why not?

Give away or loan without charge? Never.

KL and DL are seperate companies. Their management answers to and has a fiduciary duty of financial responsibility to their respective and very seperate ultimate stock holders.
 
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:07 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 29):

They are ? Their expansion plans must be on shaky ground then
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:21 pm

I think that the 14 slots is more than enough in order to start operations to ABZ (5 daily), MAN (4 daily) and EDI (5 daily). 10 slots would have even been okay cause I do not see anyone starting MAN. In fact if this deal is approved with the 14 slots, I think the competitor will only start ABZ and EDI. Mind you I don't know if that would ever work. BD with its 100 code share partners was not able to run the services with a profit.
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:25 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 23):

If VS or any other airline takes up the offer outlined in the FT, BA (through the IAG purchase) will be left with 363 or just under one third of what was BD's slot holding. Whatever the decision of the competition authorities BD has already been totally emasculated. The sad thing about that is the number of BD staff whose job is on the line. Let's hope IAG are allowed to save a some of them.

So if they will have such few slots left - surely loads of jobs must have gone already?
 
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:33 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 29):
Cityjet are massively loss making at the mo. LHR would tip them over the edge......

I believe CityJet almost reached break-even in 2011, so far from "massively loss making".

I agree with you on the second point though. The CityJet business model is not suited to LHR ops.
 
by738
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:39 pm

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 33):
I think the competitor will only start ABZ and EDI.

I suspect no carrier will be interested in starting brand new ops on these routes
 
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Dano1977
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:46 pm

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 15):

Not reading anything into it at all.

Sir Richard Branson has been vocal about no competition on Scottish routes if the deal goes through. IAG are now offering 14 slots for those routes and Riyadh in Saudi.

I'm just saying its now time for Branson to put up or shut up. But as most on here already know he won't do diddly squat about it, but will still moan and play the martyr. Unfortunately it's starting to wear thin, and turning into the boy who cried wolf.

As I said earlier, I'm still waiting for the promised Glasgow - New York route he promised when BA pulled out.
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:00 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 29):

They almost broke even last financial year - a big turnaround on the previous year.
 
Humberside
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:30 pm

Quoting AIR MALTA (Thread starter):
In another move to secure the deal, IAG is ready to relinquish 14 (up from 10) slots to any competitor wanting to operate from London to Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Manchester or Riyadh, according to FT

Don't know where you got MAN from. The FT article states the original 10 slots where to cover ABZ, EDI, Riyadh and Cairo, not MAN
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GCT64
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:45 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 22):
BA's offer is one with little demand. WHO is going to fly fro LHR to Scotland ? Ryannair ? Easy Jet ?

Why not Easyjet? They have demonstrated the ability to run standalone London-EDI services (STN-EDI, LGW-EDI, LTN-EDI) with no connecting traffic, they are becoming more business customer focused (leaving the ULCC market to Ryanair) and they have shown an ability to operate successfully from major legacy hubs (AMS, BRU, CDG, FCO, ZRH etc.).

There must be someone at Easyjet arguing this is an opportunity to get their foot in the door at LHR - are they brave enough? I hope so, I would move my Easyjet LTN-EDI business to Easyjet LHR-EDI in a flash. I'm sure they could negotiate the slots into LHR-EDI, LHR-GLA, LHR-ABZ all markets that they have an established presence in.

Come on Easyjet, take up BA's offer!  
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lhr380
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:47 pm

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 40):

Would they really pay LHR landing fees and everything else that goes with flying out if LHR? Their turnarounds would be very difficult?
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
GCT64
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:00 pm

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 41):
Would they really pay LHR landing fees and everything else that goes with flying out if LHR? Their turnarounds would be very difficult?

Easyjet are far less vocal about airport charges than FR, I suspect they rationalise that the added cost of operating to (say) MUC or ZRH is offest by the higher fares you can command from a primarily business clientele.

I think turnaround times would be the biggest issue at LHR - but don't they have this elsewhere on their network? (even LTN has problems with congestion induced delays at certain times of day).
Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A388,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,(..53 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
Independence76
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:20 pm

Wouldn't AB and S7 be the most logical additions?
 
planesailing
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:04 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 31):
Free? What do you think AF/KL stock holders would say about KL: management giving away their valuable asset to, effectively, DL stock holders?

Sell to DL at market prices? Certainly.

Lease at a resonable price? Why not?

Give away or loan without charge? Never.

KL and DL are seperate companies. Their management answers to and has a fiduciary duty of financial responsibility to their respective and very seperate ultimate stock holders.

The management have an obligation to realise the best potential from the companies assets.

Under the JV that AF/KLM and DL operate under in relation to EU-US flights, all resources, costs and revenue are shared by the respective 3 airlines. The maximum aircraft size that KLM would have realised on the LHR-AMS route would be a 739, yet DL are operating a 764.

Therefore, the revenue potential from this slot transfer is to the benefit of both companies under the JV.

The revenue management of the JV is handled by a seperate AMS based division of the companies not centrally through each airline.
 
boysteve
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:04 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 24):
Yes, BA will have a monopoly from London to MAN/Scotland

No no no, BA will have a monopoly from LHR - MAN, EDI, ABZ. They already have a monoply from LHR - GLA becasue BD pulled the route. BA do not have a monopoly from all London Airports to Scotland at all though.
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:53 pm

Quoting boysteve (Reply 45):
No no no, BA will have a monopoly from LHR - MAN, EDI, ABZ.

You're absolutely right, I was just been lazy in my typing
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
Condor24
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:22 am

BA having in excess of 50% traffic ex LHR is such a red herring.

Branson and O'Leary run two very different operations but they are the 'masters of cheap publicity'.

Branson should stick to what VS do well which is a long haul airline that has 'cherry picked' the best long haul routes but is sadly let down by a business class product that has fallen from being 'market leader'. The seat/bed are ok but the food is dreadful & staff are loud & over friendly.

Ryanair don't appear on my radar as Easyjet is a far better product.

Let's see the IAG / BD deal complete & focus on the UK gateways being upgraded to cope with ever increasing traffic.
'Condor, the span to fly'
 
edina
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:10 am

I wouldn't be surprised if Branson does start a domestic operation; although I think there's only an outside chance.

Don't forget that he has a virtual monopoly in the MAN & GLA rail market from London, carrying far more pax than BA & BD combined have ever done by air, with a twenty minute frequency to MAN & most trains to GLA only a shade over four hours. Fares/yields, especially on peak services, are also higher. The West Coast Main Line franchise is currently up for renewal with other serious bidders involved in the process already.

Maybe, just maybe Branson wants to remain involved in the UK long distance travel market & sniffing around for a few ex BD slots is a way of doing so if the WCML franchise round doesn't go his way.

Likely??? Maybe not, but stranger things have happened......

[Edited 2012-03-24 03:13:54]
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antonovman
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RE: IAG To Offer 14 Slots In BD Deal

Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:25 am

Quoting WAC (Reply 27):
It is not because of any anti-BA conspiracy or lets pick on Britain by any EU institution or country. The reason why there are high barriers to to entry is because the BRITISH people and the BRITISH government and BRITISH planning laws have prevented LHR from expanding. So maybe some people on the forum and British media should actually start to think rather than post/write emotional sentiment on the inadequacies of the EU and start writing about the inadequacies of UK society, politics and laws. EU can not control airport infrastructure but British government can by funding and allowing for expansion of UK airports.

Well said WAC. I agree with this entirely

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