SA7700
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787 Production Thread Part 3

Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:33 pm

Good evening ladies and gents,

This is a continuation thread of part 2 which can be found here: 787 Production Thread Part 2 Please feel free to continue your discussion on this topic in this thread.

Enjoy the forums!

Regards,

SA7700
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Stitch
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:31 pm

Did JL take delivery of both JA822J and JA825J or just one of them?

And has NH taken delivery of JA806A yet?
 
PHX787
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:14 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Did JL take delivery of both JA822J and JA825J or just one of them?

I checked wiki and the Boeing website just now and it only showed just one of them.
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dynamicsguy
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:58 pm

From Part 2:

Quoting sunrisevalley:

Do we know if weight reduced parts are being installed as they become available or are they being accumulated for the change to be made at a specific L/N.?

Unless there is a sufficiently strong business case, the changes are accumulated for blockpoints. The rationale for this is that it reduces the variation between airframes and allows for a more stable build process. The decision on what changes to include at each blockpoint are made a significant time in advance.

I know of one change we're making off blockpoint, but that's for a significant cost saving and has a very low impact to our build process and no impact at final assembly.
 
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juanchito
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:49 am

Two 787 where delivered to JAL today, info taken from Boeing Twitter

Boeing Airplanes ‏ @BoeingAirplanes
2 Dreamliners in one day. We just delivered another 787 to JAL. Congrats to our great customer! #Boeing #JAL787

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sunrisevalley
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:14 am

Quoting dynamicsguy (Reply 3):
The decision on what changes to include at each blockpoint are made a significant time in advance.

Are the block points known beyond a few Boeing insider's?
 
dynamicsguy
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:56 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 5):
Are the block points known beyond a few Boeing insider's?

It's not just a few insiders - it was communicated to our entire engineering organisation - but it seems to be kept internal. I've not seen Boeing publicly announce 787 blockpoints apart from the LN 7 and 20 blockpoints. In media and blogs I've seen LNs 7, 20, 34 and 90 identified correctly. I also saw 50 come up a lot which was close but not quite right.

The next obvious points are when they can roll in 787-9 changes. For common parts you'd probably see a blockpoint at the first -8 after the first -9 is assembled, and the first -8 after the -9 is certified.
 
sweair
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:52 am

What did get delivered yesterday? 2 JAL? Not 1 for ANA? It seems like they will repeat this in april, 2 JAL and 1 ANA.

LOT will be the first european airline to fly 787. All the lease company owned frames, when are they due? As many airlines will fly these frames. In a year or so we should see more of 787s flying in europe, SAS is asleep as always..
 
PPVRA
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:37 pm

Boeing set up a website for the JAL delivery:

http://www.newairplane.com/787/delivery/#/en/jal/home/

Looks like they will be posting videos of the delivery ceremony, fly away and arrival ceremony.
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sunrisevalley
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:59 pm

Quoting dynamicsguy (Reply 6):
In media and blogs I've seen LNs 7, 20, 34 and 90 identified correctly. I also saw 50 come up a lot which was close but not quite right.

So it is likely that a block point is about to or has just passed. Would you expect that there was an OEW reduction at this point?
 
liftsifter
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:38 pm

Royal Jordanian's first delivery has been pushed to early 2014, as opposed to mid 2013. Some rumors even point to first delivery in 2015.

Does anyone have any idea when the whole delivery schedule will become regulated? It felt like Boeing was doing so well since Paris and then delivered the first ANA and then forgot about the other 800+ orders they have on the books.
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Stitch
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:52 pm

Quoting liftsifter (Reply 10):
Does anyone have any idea when the whole delivery schedule will become regulated?

Boeing will probably be delivering pre-LN30 planes through late 2013, as Boeing will probably only be able to average one of those a month and they have almost two dozen when you include LN4, LN5 and LN7.

LN30-LN45 will probably be the bulk of what is delivered in 2012 - JL's two birds are in this tranche as is the next one due for NH. AI's first bird will also be from this tranche.

LN46 and beyond will require little to no rework and therefore should be delivered soon after leaving the FAL, though they won't start delivering until the second half of the year.
 
dynamicsguy
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:50 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 9):
Would you expect that there was an OEW reduction at this point?

Sorry, I know the answer, but it's not in the public domain as far as I've seen.
 
redrooster3
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:18 am

JA825J took off earlier om delivery flight, JA822J should be the next one which takes off within an hour. Two more 787's delivered.

Congrats JAL!
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Dan23
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:58 am

JA822J is airborne now on its delivery flight
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PPVRA
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:05 am

Flight numbers JAL 8101 and 8102 if anyone is interested in tracking them.
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juanchito
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:20 am

Why is 8101 going to Narita and 8102 to Haneda?

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sweair
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:07 am

7 rebuilt and delivered 52 to go  

When they can go from FAL to delivery, how much money will that save Boeing?
 
starrion
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:45 pm

down to a couple days left for the ANA delivery.

It would be nice to see them keep to some sort of plan for a month.....
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Spacepope
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:14 am

BOE040 is now up and testing. That's a new LN for me.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...0/history/20120327/2233Z/KPAE/KMWH
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PHX787
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:36 am

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 19):
BOE040 is now up and testing. That's a new LN for me.

There's a thread about LN's first routes; when is it supposed to be delivered?
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Dan23
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:09 am

I think BOE040 is ZA117/LN40/JA806A (with its new engines) which has flown a number of times previously as BOE117. That call sign was already being used today by a 77W so it possibly explains the change.
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dynamicsguy
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:19 am

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 19):
BOE040 is now up and testing. That's a new LN for me.

That's odd. Usually the flight number has been based on the effectivity. If that is LN 40, which makes sense since it's the next one due to be delivered, then it's ZA117 and would usually have the flight number BOE117. It looks like that flight number was used by a 777 flight back from PDX today.

LN 40 had already made several flights, but according to kpae.blogspot.com it had its engines changed a few days ago.

Quoting starrion (Reply 18):

down to a couple days left for the ANA delivery.

It would be nice to see them keep to some sort of plan for a month.....

Even their mature programs seem to have a flurry of deliveries in the last couple of days of the month, so it's not just the 787.
 
NYC777
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:54 pm

Ok someone cancelled 24 787s this week according to Boeing. Who is it?
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WarpSpeed
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:19 pm

My money would be on a reduction by Qantas and/or China Eastern. Qantas seems to be in super reorganization mode lately and may have cancelled a sizable lot of 787s. China Eastern ordered 45 737s this week as well. Maybe they cancelled their 787s as part of a switch. British Airways has exactly 24 on order, but it doesn't seem like them to cancel. Air India said in the last few weeks they would take all of theirs, but maybe compensation talks broke down and they are taking only a few.

[Edited 2012-03-29 08:29:41]
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rotating14
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:52 pm

Quoting WarpSpeed (Reply 24):
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/boe...ped-787s-order-for-737s-2011-10-18

Hey guys, this may shed light on the order depletion, but this happened back in the beginning of October. Here we are at the end of March and its now being reflected. Guess the reports happened faster than the actual cancellation
 
NYC777
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:58 pm

Yeah Flightblogger is saying it's China Eastern. Swapping the 45 737s for the 24 787s.
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Daysleeper
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:22 pm

Quoting dynamicsguy (Reply 12):
Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 9):Would you expect that there was an OEW reduction at this point?
Sorry, I know the answer, but it's not in the public domain as far as I've seen.

I know it wasn’t intentional, but posts like that are really frustrating. It also makes me suspect that they are struggling to take the weight off, as a weight reduction would be good news so no reason to keep it quiet.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 23):
Ok someone cancelled 24 787s this week according to Boeing. Who is it?

Do you know how the order was broken up? As I posted in the 2012 order thread the China cancellation was 15 788’s and 9 789’s… So if the shoe fits…
 
redrooster3
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:37 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 23):
Ok someone cancelled 24 787s this week according to Boeing. Who is it?

This was the China Eastern cancel last year, they exchanged for 737's. And they firmed the exchange. No new cancellations.
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ferpe
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:46 pm

Here a Flightbglobal article about the production of the 789 horizontal stabilizer, it says the first 789 would be LN 126:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ntal-stabiliser-production-370108/

Delivery to FAL Q4 2012.
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sunrisevalley
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:01 pm

Quoting ferpe (Reply 29):
Here a Flightbglobal article about the production of the 789 horizontal stabilizer, it says the first 789 would be LN 126:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ntal-stabiliser-production-370108/

Delivery to FAL Q4 2012.

Would this suggest Q1 2013 for assembly? How many frames are needed for the flight test program. More than two?
 
dkny
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:44 pm

When will ET receive their 787. They have it in their schedule to JNB and DXB starting june 15.
 
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kanban
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:18 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 30):
Would this suggest Q1 2013 for assembly?


maybe, maybe 4qtr 12.. if the line is moving at rate by the 4 qtr, it should take about 2 weeks from receipt to roll out. Now if they hold it to the side for instrumentation it could take longer, however I suspect instrumentation will occur after assembly
 
PHX787
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:20 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 26):
Yeah Flightblogger is saying it's China Eastern. Swapping the 45 737s for the 24 787s.

I've seen pix of China Eastern 787s sitting on the hardstand at PAE.... Will those be delivered?
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redrooster3
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:24 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 33):
I've seen pix of China Eastern 787s sitting on the hardstand at PAE.... Will those be delivered

Those are china southern's you're thinking of
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PHX787
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:57 pm

Quoting redrooster3 (Reply 34):
Those are china southern's you're thinking of

Ah my mistake, you're right, thanks
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Gemuser
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:34 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 20):
There's a thread about LN's first routes; when is it supposed to be delivered?

Not to be overly picky but there is a thread about "LA's" first routes. "LN" in this thread refers to the "Line Number" allocated by Boeing to airframes.

Gemuser
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redrooster3
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:54 am

Looks like ANA's getting another 787 tonight! Anyone know the registration?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ANA9397

[Edited 2012-03-29 19:02:30]
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PHX787
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:03 am

Quoting gemuser (Reply 36):
Not to be overly picky but there is a thread about "LA's" first routes. "LN" in this thread refers to the "Line Number" allocated by Boeing to airframes.

Thanks again for the correction; I always get the codes messed up -_-

But yeah, What other routes do you see LA taking with the 787?
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Dan23
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:16 am

Quoting redrooster3 (Reply 37):
Looks like ANA's getting another 787 tonight! Anyone know the registration?

It must be JA806A (LN40)
146, 319, 320, 332, 333, 380, 717, 733, 734, 73H, 743, 744, 752, 763, 772, 77W, 788, AT7, CR7, DH1, DHT, EM2
 
flood
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:17 am

Quoting Dan23 (Reply 39):
It must be JA806A (LN40)

Indeed, and their second frame for international ops. ANA's FRA daily is now scheduled to begin April 9th. I do wonder when ANA plans on scheduling their birds for the delamination check?

Meanwhile, JA822J returned from a short loop out of Kansai and JA825J just departed Kansai as JAL4387.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:17 am

Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 27):
I know it wasn’t intentional, but posts like that are really frustrating. It also makes me suspect that they are struggling to take the weight off

They're always struggling to take the weight off. If they weren't struggling it would be easy, and they'd have done it already.

Tom.
 
dynamicsguy
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:46 am

Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 27):
I know it wasn't intentional, but posts like that are really frustrating. It also makes me suspect that they are struggling to take the weight off

There are plenty of good reasons for what's happening and when, but to give a decent explanation would require information which isn't public. There's a bunch of changes made at each blockpoint - some to reduce cost, reduce weight, fix problems, etc. If I didn't care about keeping my job then I could discuss this question at length and give you a breakdown, but I happen to like what I do.

Everyone is just getting on with their jobs, and there's no reason to give an update every step of the way.

Be frustrated if you want. I was answering in reply to sunrisevalley's questions and gave what information I could.
 
PITingres
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:36 pm

Quoting dynamicsguy (Reply 42):
There are plenty of good reasons for what's happening and when, but to give a decent explanation would require information which isn't public.

And I might add that in general, there's no active decision to not publicize the changes, it's just the default. I don't tell the world what I do every day either; 99% of the time it wouldn't matter, but nobody can be arsed to figure out which bit is the 1% that would matter. So the default is to say nothing unless explicitly permitted.
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Daysleeper
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:52 pm

Quoting dynamicsguy (Reply 42):
There are plenty of good reasons for what's happening and when, but to give a decent explanation would require information which isn't public. There's a bunch of changes made at each blockpoint - some to reduce cost, reduce weight, fix problems, etc. If I didn't care about keeping my job then I could discuss this question at length and give you a breakdown, but I happen to like what I do.

I understand why you aren’t able to post details and would never expect you too, I just didn’t see the point in posting “I know but I can’t tell you”
 
WarpSpeed
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:24 pm

Quoting dynamicsguy (Reply 42):
I was answering in reply to sunrisevalley's questions and gave what information I could.

Stepping back to better understand the context here, I'd rather have your insights (as long as you keep your job), than not have it at all. I'm surprised your able to share as much as you do.

Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 44):
I just didn’t see the point in posting “I know but I can’t tell you”

Well, at least we are assured that someone at Boeing knows what's going on!
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ferpe
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:28 pm

@Dynamicsguy, your inputs are always valued. Thanks for your posts, always interesting to read.
Non French in France
 
PlaneAdmirer
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:37 pm

Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 44):
I understand why you aren’t able to post details and would never expect you too, I just didn’t see the point in posting “I know but I can’t tell you”

Just by some chance he may have responded that way to a false allegation or innuendo that he knows to be inaccurate rather than let it fester in public mind.
 
dynamicsguy
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:34 pm

Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 44):
I just didn’t see the point in posting “I know but I can’t tell you”

I didn't mean to stir up controversy. Had it been a general question I would have written nothing. Since there had been a few questions and answers back and forth I just thought it would be more polite than ignoring the question entirely.
 
Daysleeper
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RE: 787 Production Thread Part 3

Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:06 am

Quoting dynamicsguy (Reply 48):
I didn't mean to stir up controversy. Had it been a general question I would have written nothing. Since there had been a few questions and answers back and forth I just thought it would be more polite than ignoring the question entirely.

I know, I really didn’t mean to make a big deal out of this either, I actually said in the initial post that I realised it wasn’t intentional. I just thought I’d let you know it’s easy to take such comments out of context.

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