na
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Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:33 pm

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...s-up-three-boeing-747-300s-369994/

These three planes were aquired by Al Sayegh in 2010 for Hadj flights and as of lately still carried basic Qantas livery. They originally carried the registrations VH-EBV, -EBW and -EBY and were built in 1986/87.
 
747400sp
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:14 pm

That will be interesting, a RR powered 747 in Iran Air fleet.
 
haveasafeflight
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:31 pm

This is great news for Iran Air as they desperately need to replace their aging fleet of 30 year old Boeing 747-200's & 727's as well as Airbus A300's. I am curious however as to how Iran Air intends to purchase spare parts and customized technical publications from Boeing, in light of the existing sanctions in place. The current sanctions prohibit Boeing from providing support for Iran Air's existing Boeing 747's & 727's, so what makes Iran Air think these 747-300's are going to be any different?

Some anetters may recall last month that Iran Air's CEO Farhad Parvaresh officially announced that 50% of the airline would be sold on the Tehran stock exchange before March 19th 2012:

Iran Air CEO: We Will Become Privatized In 3 Weeks (by haveasafeflight Feb 26 2012 in Civil Aviation)

So far it appears that the planned privatization has failed to materialize and the airline remains a national asset. The timing of the acquisition of these 747-300's is interesting however as it comes within approximately 1 week of the planned date of the privatization.
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jfk777
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:44 pm

The end of the shah era 747SP's at Iran Air. Amazing how long they have been able to keep flying the 1970's 747 P & W fleet they have.
 
airbazar
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:46 pm

Quoting haveasafeflight (Reply 2):
I am curious however as to how Iran Air intends to purchase spare parts and customized technical publications from Boeing, in light of the existing sanctions in place.

The same way they get the planes in the first place? Through an intermediary third party?
 
GCPET
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:57 pm

How much price is there between a late build 743 and a used early build 744? Maybe Iran could acquire some of the old Qantas 744's in a few years?

GCPET
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haveasafeflight
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:24 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 5):
The same way they get the planes in the first place? Through an intermediary third party?

That might work for the spare parts, but not for the technical manuals (aircraft maintenance manual, wiring diagram manual etc). Boeing does not re-sell customized manuals to third parties or intermediaries as the manuals are customized by Boeing according to the serial numbers of the airplanes and supplied only to the aircraft operator. I understand that Boeing (like airbus) keeps records of all the serial numbers and respective operators, so there is no way that a third party/intermediary could obtain such data.

So without the correct manuals how are Iran Air planning on keeping these aircraft safe to fly?

First pics of Iran Air's new bird in Tehran Airport:

http://www.iranairaviation.com/AviationDetails.aspx?ID=1191
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airbazar
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:04 pm

Quoting haveasafeflight (Reply 7):
That might work for the spare parts, but not for the technical manuals (aircraft maintenance manual, wiring diagram manual etc). Boeing does not re-sell customized manuals to third parties or intermediaries as the manuals are customized by Boeing according to the serial numbers of the airplanes and supplied only to the aircraft operator.

I'm not familiar with this sort of thing but wouldn't the manuals accompany the airplane, wherever it goes? It would make sense that when QF sold the airplane, the manuals went with it. Isn't that how it works?
 
na
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:12 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 8):
I'm not familiar with this sort of thing but wouldn't the manuals accompany the airplane, wherever it goes? It would make sense that when QF sold the airplane, the manuals went with it. Isn't that how it works?

It makes no sense to sell a plane without necessary paperworks/manuals. Its potentially dangerous, and I would even argue, illegal. Isnt that the reason Olympic Airways has such trouble selling their A340s?
 
na
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:35 pm

Quoting haveasafeflight (Reply 7):
First pics of Iran Air's new bird in Tehran Airport:

http://www.iranairaviation.com/Aviat...=1191

Interesting. Wonder why the plane carries the Samair logo, an operator with (again, ex-QF) 737s registered in Slovakia.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 10):
I kind of liked seeing these oldies still in active service. I wish they keep them alive a while longer.
Iran, it seems, has become quite handy at servicing and maintaining older aircrafts, civil and military, even despite the lack of support from the manufacturers. I know it's born from the need, but it's quite remarkable.
Any idea where they'll fly them to? Are the -100 going out?

One can only admire Iran for being able to keep the old 747s in the air with no accident. Iran Air only has one 747-100. Last photo of the plane in action is from Moscow last summer.
 
Jackbr
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:40 pm

PTVs in Y for Iran Air then?
 
Quokkas
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:41 pm

I freely admit to being ill-informed, but Australia publicly supports whatever UN sanctions are in force and will usually (and with embarrassment, slavishly) adopt US policy in international relations. More importantly, Australia has a treaty with the US that means that Australia must follow the US on intellectual rights and even without that requirement, obliges Australia to observe restrictions on the export of US technologies normally attached to the purchase of US goods.

This leads me to ask whether the aircraft were sold through third parties who may have turned a blind eye to the various treaties in force.
“Not to laugh, not to cry, not to hate, but understand.” Spinoza
 
haveasafeflight
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:04 pm

Quoting na (Reply 9):
It makes no sense to sell a plane without necessary paperworks/manuals. Its potentially dangerous, and I would even argue, illegal. Isnt that the reason Olympic Airways has such trouble selling their A340s?

I understand that Olympic's manuals are outdated by some years.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 8):
I'm not familiar with this sort of thing but wouldn't the manuals accompany the airplane, wherever it goes?

To address your point, the manuals may very well accompany the airplane, however those manuals are valid only so long as the manufacturer, i.e. Boeing does not issue revisions. Sooner or later Boeing will issue mandatory revisions to the manuals which will make all of the previous manuals obsolete and therefore by definition unsafe for continued use.

The point I was making above was that no "front company" or intermediary will be able to obtain from Boeing the customized manuals required for the safe operation of Iran Air's 747-300's as these manuals are only ever supplied to the aircraft operator. That is a problem for Iran Air as Boeing won't sell them due to sanctions. I think this could give rise to serious safety risks if Iran Air continues to operate these airplanes without the mandatory updates to the Boeing manuals.

Forgive me for quoting myself, but if Iran Air are unable to obtain technical and maintenance manual updates from Boeing the following question needs to be asked:

Quoting haveasafeflight (Reply 7):

So without the correct (updated) manuals how are Iran Air planning on keeping these aircraft safe to fly?


[Edited 2012-03-27 13:09:39]
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TheSonntag
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:13 pm

But Iran is still flying 747SPs and 747-100s. I guess someone must update these manuals too, right? So where is the difference to newer 743s?
 
haveasafeflight
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:07 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 20):
I guess someone must update these manuals too, right?

Actually I do not believe that is the case.

The models you mention are a different case because they have been originally supplied to Iran Air by Boeing, and Iran Air have come to know these aircraft inside out over a period of 30+ years operating them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that they don't need the latest versions of the manuals - as standard observation of air safety codes the latest manual revisions available must always be used, but the fact is that Iran Air are unable to buy them from Boeing and are probably getting by on their years of expertise with these particular models (727's as well) and observation of important service bulletins. I understand that one of the key reasons for Iran Air's Boeing fleet being blacklisted from EU airspace is because their manuals are severely outdated:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...s-on-mro-and-airworthiness-344160/
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ns-iran-air-a320s-and-747s-344095/

The 747-300 is a different ballgame however as Iran Air has no experience whatsoever in maintaining and operating this particular model and is unable to receive support from Boeing to assist with becoming acquainted with the model

As stated previously, Boeing does not sell customized manuals updates to third parties, only to the aircraft operator - so therefore it is not possible that "someone" is doing updates.
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flylku
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:51 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 5):
How much price is there between a late build 743 and a used early build 744? Maybe Iran could acquire some of the old Qantas 744's in a few years?

This week's Trade-APlane had a 747-200 Combi that needs heavy maintenance available for 2.5 million US. There was also a 747-400 for 25 million US. I do not recall where it was in the maintenance cycle.
...are we there yet?
 
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gdg9
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:54 pm

Quoting GCPET (Reply 6):
How much price is there between a late build 743 and a used early build 744? Maybe Iran could acquire some of the old Qantas 744's in a few years?

I'd be curious of that too.
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:53 pm

Boeing issues various manuals relating to the plane's mechanical/structural being. Manuals like the aircraft maintenance manual (AMM), illustrated parts catalog (AIPC), structural repair manual, wiring diagrams, etc. The manuals are specific to the plane family (ie. the ones I deal with at my airline are for all 737NGs). However, the manuals are tailored by leasing company. We have 5-6 different AMM cds for the B737NG as we have planes owned by various leasing companies. To me, they are the same stuff but some have different components, parts from different vendors (ie. Honeywell avionics package vs. Rockwell Collins, etc). I'm guessing Iran Air will either use any manual applicable to a B747-300 they can obtain whether or not it's current.
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:21 pm

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 14):
I freely admit to being ill-informed, but Australia publicly supports whatever UN sanctions are in force and will usually (and with embarrassment, slavishly) adopt US policy in international relations. More importantly, Australia has a treaty with the US that means that Australia must follow the US on intellectual rights and even without that requirement, obliges Australia to observe restrictions on the export of US technologies normally attached to the purchase of US goods.

This leads me to ask whether the aircraft were sold through third parties who may have turned a blind eye to the various treaties in force.

Does QF get a say in this transaction?

Or have the aircraft already been sold by QF to some 3rd party (leasing company?) rendering QF with no say in this transaction whatsoever?
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vaus77w
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:43 pm

Quoting haveasafeflight (Reply 19):
The point I was making above was that no "front company" or intermediary will be able to obtain from Boeing the customized manuals required for the safe operation of Iran Air's 747-300's as these manuals are only ever supplied to the aircraft operator. That is a problem for Iran Air as Boeing won't sell them due to sanctions. I think this could give rise to serious safety risks if Iran Air continues to operate these airplanes without the mandatory updates to the Boeing manuals.

Forgive me for quoting myself, but if Iran Air are unable to obtain technical and maintenance manual updates from Boeing the following question needs to be asked:

Quoting haveasafeflight (Reply 7):

So without the correct (updated) manuals how are Iran Air planning on keeping these aircraft safe to fly?

But Mahan operate 744's, wouldn't they have the same issue?
 
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:56 pm

Quoting haveasafeflight (Reply 14):

The 747-300 is a different ballgame however as Iran Air has no experience whatsoever in maintaining and operating this particular model and is unable to receive support from Boeing to assist with becoming acquainted with the model

I defer to 747FE and other experts on this but I believe the -300 is significantly common with the -200, apart from in this case, the engines but Iran Air seems very proficient at keeping anything airworthy !
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:25 am

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 1):

That will be interesting, a RR powered 747 in Iran Air fleet.

That is interesting. Iran Air knows the JT9D. The RB211 is a very different animal.

Quoting haveasafeflight (Reply 12):
To address your point, the manuals may very well accompany the airplane, however those manuals are valid only so long as the manufacturer, i.e. Boeing does not issue revisions.

Are there really going to be that many revisions for the 743 going forward? There is certainly risk, but for the airframe, I think Iran Air will be ok. The major risk is the engines. Which is about half the maintenance work...

Quoting flylku (Reply 15):
This week's Trade-APlane had a 747-200 Combi that needs heavy maintenance available for 2.5 million US. There was also a 747-400 for 25 million US.

A 744 in need of heavy maintenance was as low as $5million for the Air New Zealand 744 scrapped in mid-2009.


The issue would be how would Iran Air get a hold of a number of them?


Lightsaber
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B747FE
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:20 am

Quoting haveasafeflight (Reply 6):
Boeing does not re-sell customized manuals to third parties or intermediaries as the manuals are customized by Boeing according to the serial numbers of the airplanes and supplied only to the aircraft operator.

Yes they do, although it's a very expensive service and as you said is probably not available for IR.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 7):
I'm not familiar with this sort of thing but wouldn't the manuals accompany the airplane, wherever it goes? It would make sense that when QF sold the airplane, the manuals went with it. Isn't that how it works?

That's correct!

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 13):
So where is the difference to newer 743s?

There isn't significant differences, other than some upgrades in the cockpit and systems.
Nothing special.

Quoting haveasafeflight (Reply 14):
The 747-300 is a different ballgame however as Iran Air has no experience whatsoever in maintaining and operating this particular model and is unable to receive support from Boeing to assist with becoming acquainted with the model

Seems to me they are very acquainted with the airframe already, having operated -100/-200 & SP for more than 30 years or so. Again, there is no significant differences between -100/200/300; SR & SP.
The power plant on the other hand is a different story.

Quoting vhtje (Reply 18):
Does QF get a say in this transaction?

No.
They were retired from service with QF and ferried to Marana January 2009 IIRC.
I believe shortly afterwards they were sold.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 21):
Are there really going to be that many revisions for the 743 going forward?

Not many that I know of.


Quoting lightsaber (Reply 21):
The major risk is the engines. Which is about half the maintenance work...

  


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B747FE.
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Spacepope
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:21 am

Are they going to be operating these aircraft, or just using them for spares?
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haveasafeflight
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:54 am

Quoting vaus77w (Reply 19):
But Mahan operate 744's, wouldn't they have the same issue?

Mahan is in fact experiencing serious problems maintaining their 747-400's. It is standard practice to always only use the most recent revision of the manufactures manuals, especially the maintenance manual - so the fact that Mahan Air like Iran Air is unable to obtain these from Boeing certainly adds to their maintenance troubles. I heard a rumor recently that Mahan Air they are looking to get rid of their 747-400's - looks like they bit of more than they could chew...

Quoting B747FE (Reply 22):
Yes they do, although it's a very expensive service and as you said is probably not available for IR.

Are you suggesting that Boeing sells customized manuals to third parties? It would be interesting to see evidence of this

Quoting B747FE (Reply 22):
Seems to me they are very acquainted with the airframe already, having operated -100/-200 & SP for more than 30 years or so. Again, there is no significant differences between -100/200/300; SR & SP.
The power plant on the other hand is a different story.
Quoting Max Q (Reply 20):
I defer to 747FE and other experts on this but I believe the -300 is significantly common with the -200, apart from in this case, the engines but Iran Air seems very proficient at keeping anything airworthy !
Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 17):
I'm guessing Iran Air will either use any manual applicable to a B747-300 they can obtain whether or not it's current.

Unfortunately the above quotes miss the point I have been making which is regardless of the amount of experience an airline has operating a particular model of aircraft, it is standard good practice to always use the latest version of the manufacturers manuals. When the manufacturer issues a revision to a manual, it is mandatory to always use the latest version as critical updates need to be performed. To not do so represents a very serious risk to the safety of the aircraft. So in essence, if you don't have the latest manuals for the airplane you shouldn't be operating it.
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RIXrat
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:04 am

Not to change the subject, but who issues maintenance manual updates for the F100? Fokker no longer exists, yet there are loads of them still flying around in scheduled service.
 
haveasafeflight
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:09 am

Quoting RIXrat (Reply 25):
Not to change the subject, but who issues maintenance manual updates for the F100? Fokker no longer exists, yet there are loads of them still flying around in scheduled service.

That would be Fokker Services:

http://www.myfokkerfleet.com


Boeing offers an identical service:

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/avi...ance-manuals/customer-changes.html

The difference is that Fokker Services have a long standing agreement with Iran Air and Iran Aseman Airlines (Iran's 2 largest F100 operators) to supply updates to the F100 manuals and actively do so. On the other hand as Boeing is an American company Iran Air is unable to buy from them due to the sanctions. It is possible that new sanctions may effect the fokkers at some point in the future, but for the time being they continue to receive support. Note that both Boeing and Fokker Services only supply the manuals to the registered operators of the airplanes.

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tommytoyz
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:50 am

Well, Iran can obtain copies of manuals and important information for their Boeing aircraft by bribing someone at a current operator of the same model far cheaper than through any other channel, IMHO, if that is even necessary.

In any case, paperwork does not make a plane safe or unsafe. AF447 crashed with all the paperwork in order as have countless planes and crews.
 
haveasafeflight
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:42 am

Quoting tommytoyz (Reply 27):
Well, Iran can obtain copies of manuals and important information for their Boeing aircraft by bribing someone at a current operator of the same model far cheaper than through any other channel, IMHO, if that is even necessary.

I don't mean to be rude but it seems that you haven't read the information on Boeing's website:

Quoting haveasafeflight (Reply 26):

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/avi...ance-manuals/customer-changes.html

Suggesting that bribing someone to provide manuals belonging to another airline is somehow equivalent to utilizing customized manuals designed specifically by Boeing to the exact specifications of each aircraft serial number is pure fantasy. There are simply too many permutations involved in the different customer specifications, configurations and materials, not to mention maintenance, overhaul and upgrade history to make another airlines aircrafts 100% identical. In my opinion any deviation from the exact maintenance specifications ascribed to a particular airplane serial number in the manufacturers manuals, invariably increases the margin of a safety risk.

I am not suggesting that the paperwork in and of itself makes an airplane safe or unsafe. The paperwork is simply a medium by which the manufacturers share information with the operators on how best to maintain their airplanes for safe operation. It is the APPLICATION or NON-APPLICATION of THIS INFORMATION amongst other things that effects the relative safety of an airplane.

If for any reason an operator is unable to obtain updated maintenance information from the manufacturer (i.e. Iran Air and Boeing), and continues to operate the airplane, then those airplanes are not as safe as they could be, relative to aircraft which have updated their maintenance procedures according to the manufacturers latest recommendations. I believe that the manufacturer knows best when it comes to maintaining the aircraft - they built it after all.
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lollomz
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:23 am

Quoting haveasafeflight (Reply 6):
First pics of Iran Air's new bird in Tehran Airport:

http://www.iranairaviation.com/Aviat...=1191

I can't see the link.... can you please post a picture? Thanks.
[url="http://www.diecastmodelaircraft.com/collection/Lollomz"]Image[/url]
 
penguins
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:37 am

Quoting tommytoyz (Reply 27):
In any case, paperwork does not make a plane safe or unsafe. AF447 crashed with all the paperwork in order as have countless planes and crews.

I think that is irrevalent. Think off all the plane crashes over the years and I bet you that 99% of them had proper paperwork and crew training for the day's standards.

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 23):
Are they going to be operating these aircraft, or just using them for spares?

Exactly, because the 747-100,200,300,SP and SR are almost the same, may be the engines don't matter and they need the rest of the plane as spare for their SP's, 200's, 100's (still around?).
 
na
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:47 am

Quoting penguins (Reply 30):
Exactly, because the 747-100,200,300,SP and SR are almost the same, may be the engines don't matter and they need the rest of the plane as spare for their SP's, 200's, 100's (still around?).

Possible, even likely, as I think the mileage (Flight hours/cycles) of Iran Airs older 747s might actually be lower than that of these almost 10 years younger ex-QF-birds which must have covered 100.000 hours at least. And they know their own birds better anyway from 35 years working on them. These QF 747s could stretch the lifes of the SPs, 742s and 741 for a few years more. And they get better seats now to upgrade the cabins!
 
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:06 am

Quoting haveasafeflight (Reply 26):

LOL MyFokkerFleet. Sounds like a complete rip of MyBoeingFleet. I use MBF daily (I am an admin for my airline) and it's truly remarkable what kind of information is accessible via that website.
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haveasafeflight
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:15 am

Quoting lollomz (Reply 29):

I can't see the link.... can you please post a picture? Thanks.

Here you go  
Iran Air Boeing 747-300 Tehran Mehrabad Airport


Quoting Spacepope (Reply 23):
Are they going to be operating these aircraft, or just using them for spares?

That's an interesting question, does anyone have a definitive answer?
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chieft
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:20 am

I guess they will operate it as the spare part possibilities are very limited.
Especially the RR engines are useless for them as they have never operated this type of engines.
Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
 
haveasafeflight
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:45 am

Quoting chieft (Reply 34):
I guess they will operate it as the spare part possibilities are very limited.
Especially the RR engines are useless for them as they have never operated this type of engines.

If Iran Air are in fact planning on operating these, why didn't they just buy aircraft with lower hours/cycles?

as na said:

Quoting na (Reply 31):
I think the mileage (Flight hours/cycles) of Iran Airs older 747s might actually be lower than that of these almost 10 years younger ex-QF-birds which must have covered 100.000 hours at least. And they know their own birds better anyway from 35 years working on them. These QF 747s could stretch the lifes of the SPs, 742s and 741 for a few years more.

So if Iran Air's existing 747's have a lower number of flight hours/cycles, what was the point in buying these -300's? Surely they could have purchased similar airplanes with a significantly lower number of flight hours or as other posters have mentioned possibly even 747-400's? This is strange   
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na
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:55 am

Quoting haveasafeflight (Reply 35):
If Iran Air are in fact planning on operating these, why didn't they just buy aircraft with lower hours/cycles?

Its very hard for Iran Air to source aircraft.

Quoting haveasafeflight (Reply 35):
So if Iran Air's existing 747's have a lower number of flight hours/cycles, what was the point in buying these -300's? Surely they could have purchased similar airplanes with a significantly lower number of flight hours or as other posters have mentioned possibly even 747-400's? This is strange

I bet Iran Air would love to buy a handful of fairly used 744s if the only could.
 
haveasafeflight
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:13 pm

Quoting na (Reply 36):
Its very hard for Iran Air to source aircraft.

Fair enough...It just seems odd for them to have bought airplanes that have a potentially shorter operational lifespan than their existing 747-100/200/SP's.

I'm still undecided on this, i.e. whether Iran Air plans to operate these or scrap them for spare parts...? Time will tell I guess.
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lollomz
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:38 pm

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AirbusA6
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:57 pm

Saudia's 743s are RR powered so there is some expertise of the type in the region
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AA909
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:17 pm

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 39):

Saudia's 743s are RR powered so there is some expertise of the type in the region

Saudi Arabia and Iran may be geographically close, but that's about where the closeness ends ... so this is pretty irrelevant, no offense intended.

[Edited 2012-03-28 06:20:58]
 
Spacepope
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:19 pm

Quoting chieft (Reply 34):
I guess they will operate it as the spare part possibilities are very limited.
Especially the RR engines are useless for them as they have never operated this type of engines.

True, but unless they got a bunch of RR spares from somewhere, they're going to need to cannibalize 1 maybe 2 aircraft to keep the third oddball alive and running. Right now with no extra engines, one engine failure will ground a whole aircraft indefinitely.
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haveasafeflight
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:32 pm

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 41):

True, but unless they got a bunch of RR spares from somewhere, they're going to need to cannibalize 1 maybe 2 aircraft to keep the third oddball alive and running. Right now with no extra engines, one engine failure will ground a whole aircraft indefinitely

Any thoughts on why they didn't purchase P&W equipped 747's to maintain continuity with their existing fleet?
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airbuseric
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:34 pm

S5-SAW is already having maintenance at IKA, this is ex VH-EBW
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haveasafeflight
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:06 pm

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 43):
S5-SAW is already having maintenance at IKA, this is ex VH-EBW

OK that suggests that they will operate them. Still the RR engines are likely to prove challenging from an overhaul / maintenance point of view. Surely it would have made more sense to go for P&W equipped aircraft?
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na
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:41 pm

Quoting haveasafeflight (Reply 44):
OK that suggests that they will operate them. Still the RR engines are likely to prove challenging from an overhaul / maintenance point of view. Surely it would have made more sense to go for P&W equipped aircraft?

If they could have find one, yes! I bet they have searched a lot.
 
KFlyer
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:51 pm

IIRC, a fairly old 744 now trades for around USD15m.. This seems to be the average price for 85-90 vintage, but I could be wrong too..
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na
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:07 pm

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 46):
IIRC, a fairly old 744 now trades for around USD15m.. This seems to be the average price for 85-90 vintage, but I could be wrong too..

You wouldnt find a 1985 744 for a billion as the first five or so were built in 1988! But for a 1990-built one you are about right with your pricetag.
 
Spacepope
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:11 pm

Quoting haveasafeflight (Reply 42):
Any thoughts on why they didn't purchase P&W equipped 747's to maintain continuity with their existing fleet?

No idea, but that's a very good question. We'll just have to see how this plays out. Are there any PW non-freighters available on the market? I know NW bought up the former Swissair ones just for their engines back in the day, the airframes were scrapped.
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haveasafeflight
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RE: Iran Air Aquires Ex-QF 747-300s!

Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:52 pm

Would it be economically feasible for Iran Air to convert these from the RR equipped engines to GE CF6-50E2's as used by Mahan Air on their 747-300's? It sure would make a lot more sense for the Iranian carriers to be using common engine types.

Just came across the following blog, apparently Iran Air is planning to phase out it's only 747-100: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Iran-...d=f03f78b219bb5a34cbd3caef65227d04 and two of it's 747-200's: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Iran-...d=a374ebc502c376d84200a5ae3f0645be
and replace them with their newly acquired 747-300's:

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flying...nizes-its-fleet-despite-sanctions/

I along with others believe that these 747-300's have a significantly higher number of flight hours/cycles than the aircraft they are replacing:

Quoting na (Reply 31):
I think the mileage (Flight hours/cycles) of Iran Airs older 747s might actually be lower than that of these almost 10 years younger ex-QF-birds which must have covered 100.000 hours at least. And they know their own birds better anyway from 35 years working on them. These QF 747s could stretch the lifes of the SPs, 742s and 741 for a few years more.

So if this is in fact the case, where is the logic in purchasing replacement aircraft with shorter lifespans than the aircraft they are replacing?
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