Jackbr
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DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:17 pm

To what cities does DL serve out of LAX with MD-88s?
 
steex
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:32 pm

DL does not serve LAX with the MD-88. It does see MD-90 service on the schedule at times, generally to SLC.
 
tommy767
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:39 pm

Occasionally it will sub ATL-LAX once in a very blue moon
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Rbgso
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:08 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 2):
Occasionally it will sub ATL-LAX once in a very blue moon

Can an MD88, or even an MD90, make it ATL-LAX against prevailing winds?
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:10 pm

Last time I can recall an 88 at LAX was around Nov/Dec timeframe. A 738 was scheduled to LAX from MSP on the 5-something departure but was delayed downline for whatever reason so they subbed in a 90 and coincidentally that ship went mech. They finally subbed an 88 for that a/c. Flight departed about 4hrs late.

As for ATL-LAX; havent seen one of those in probably 2 years if not more. The a/c did an ATL-LAX-ATL-DEN routing for like a week for whatever reason.
What gets measured gets done.
 
catiii
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:26 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 4):
As for ATL-LAX; havent seen one of those in probably 2 years if not more. The a/c did an ATL-LAX-ATL-DEN routing for like a week for whatever reason.

Does it take a weight penalty, or make an enroute fuel stop?
 
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United_fan
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:28 pm

It's funny how in one part of the country , say DL MD88's an FL 717's are common-place,like where I live. But in another part,a DL MD88 is a rarity. Like an MD-90 would be here in ROC.
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tommy767
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:38 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 4):
As for ATL-LAX; havent seen one of those in probably 2 years if not more. The a/c did an ATL-LAX-ATL-DEN routing for like a week for whatever reason.

This was back sometime in 2009. I had to take a weight penalty I'm sure.
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flyboy80
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:44 pm

I remember flying STL-PDX on TWA MD-80s...I think that was around 3:20/4:00 depending ont he direction- but That is a good bit shorter than ATL-LAX... I (unlike many) have always found the MD-80 very comfortable for long flights as both a passenger and flight attendant.
 
steex
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:50 pm

Quoting flyboy80 (Reply 8):
I remember flying STL-PDX on TWA MD-80s...I think that was around 3:20/4:00 depending ont he direction- but That is a good bit shorter than ATL-LAX... I (unlike many) have always found the MD-80 very comfortable for long flights as both a passenger and flight attendant.

It's also very likely that flight would've been on a TW MD-83, which has greater range than an MD-88 (or TW's MD-81/82). This is the same reason that AA continued using those birds for west coast service from STL/ORD for some time, with ORD flights only changing over to the new 738s as they came online over the last few years.
 
Newark727
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:53 pm

DL has sent MD-90s to LAX from MSP recently, I think. Haven't seen one personally in a while though.
 
flyboy80
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:53 pm

Yes this is a good point- I guess I've never really understood the differences between at the MD varriants (outside the 87/90 and size) Do the MD-83s just have bigger fuel tanks? Do they all have the same engines?
 
steex
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:09 pm

Quoting flyboy80 (Reply 11):
Yes this is a good point- I guess I've never really understood the differences between at the MD varriants (outside the 87/90 and size) Do the MD-83s just have bigger fuel tanks? Do they all have the same engines?

They all have the same engines (though not all at the same thrust rating), but are certified to different MTOW and have different fuel capacities. I believe the MD-83 could hold nearly 4,000 L (1,000+ gallons) more fuel than the MD-82. Ostensibly, the MD-88 is mechanically identical to an MD-82 aside from some differences in avionics.
 
727LOVER
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:11 pm

IIRC, western part of country, LAX, SFO, RNO, SEA, etc.........would see DL MD80s from the DFW hub.
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xaapb
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:57 am

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 10):

DL has sent MD-90s to LAX from MSP recently, I think. Haven't seen one personally in a while though.

According to FlightAware Delta flight 1121 is an MD90 from MSP to LAX.
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deltairlines
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:00 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 13):
IIRC, western part of country, LAX, SFO, RNO, SEA, etc.........would see DL MD80s from the DFW hub.

Back in the days of DFW, the -88s tended to stay on the East Coast - primarily out of ATL/CVG with some NYC/BOS and some DFW flights back East; the -90s were the ones that went DFW-West; it was you'd never see an -88 on the West Coast and a -90 on the East Coast for the longest time.
 
e38
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:42 am

Except for aircraft substitutions and/or irregular operations, the policy of Delta's network and scheduling development division is to NOT use the MD-88s to Denver and cities west of the Rocky Mountains.

e38
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:25 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 5):

No enroute fuel stop but as Tommy pointed it; it did take a weight penalty. Y capacity was reduced from what I remember. Do the same thing for the weekly flight to STX on the 88 thats just over 1600 miles.
What gets measured gets done.
 
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RWA380
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:40 am

Quoting flyboy80 (Reply 8):
I remember flying STL-PDX on TWA MD-80s...I think that was around 3:20/4:00 depending ont he direction- but That is a good bit shorter than ATL-LAX... I (unlike many) have always found the MD-80 very comfortable for long flights as both a passenger and flight attendant
Quoting steex (Reply 9):
Quoting flyboy80 (Reply 8):I remember flying STL-PDX on TWA MD-80s...I think that was around 3:20/4:00 depending ont he direction- but That is a good bit shorter than ATL-LAX... I (unlike many) have always found the MD-80 very comfortable for long flights as both a passenger and flight attendant.
It's also very likely that flight would've been on a TW MD-83, which has greater range than an MD-88 (or TW's MD-81/82). This is the same reason that AA continued using those birds for west coast service from STL/ORD for some time, with ORD flights only changing over to the new 738s as they came online over the last few years

The later n/s from STL to PDX continued on to ANC seasonally, and was an overwater equipped M83, this from my buddy that worked for TW at PDX. But at one time PDX was M80 country with AA flying to both DFW and ORD, CO to IAH, TW to STL or routed SEA-STL, all of these flights were 4+ hours most of the time, especially with winds.
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deltal1011man
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:40 am

Quoting flyboy80 (Reply 8):

The 88s aren't bad, but its hell in the back of the beast on flights longer than ~2.5 hours.....no way would i do LAX-ATL in one.
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deltaflyertoo
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:10 am

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 15):
Back in the days of DFW, the -88s tended to stay on the East Coast - primarily out of ATL/CVG with some NYC/BOS and some DFW flights back East; the -90s were the ones that went DFW-West; it was you'd never see an -88 on the West Coast and a -90 on the East Coast for the longest time

Actually 727Lover is correct on his statement of the destinations served by Deltas MD-88s out west. Not sure what your back in the day is defined as but from the 1980s through 90s the DFW hub was a heavy MD-88 base with flights to all the west coast cities 727Lover cited. In addition to his list also include SJC, OAK, SMF, SAN, PHX, etc. Of course these flights went on to the east coast from DFW as well. Delta was a lot smaller then and it was interesting to go to OAK and SJC and see the tolken MD-88 flight to DFW and 737-200 flight to SLC everyday (Atlanta was not served).
 
laca773
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:41 am

As far as I've ever seen, DL hasn't flown the M88s into LAX or any other LA area airport (perhaps if it has been flown into LAX, was it a charter?). I do know DL has sent the M88 into PHX and TUS.
Now we have seen more M90s service, though from LAX less so. When DL had the DFW hub, they flew 1-2 of their daily flights with the M90s and over the past several years, the M90 would show up now and then on the SLC-LAX route. SNA saw the M90 frequently compared to other markets.
Now that MSP is a regular base for the M90s, perhaps we'll see DL use the M90 on occasion on MSP-LAX as a sub., otherwise this particular markets is the 757/753 territory along with the A320/73H/763 here and there.

If DL were to add more mainline from ONT, the M90 would be a good a/c for MSP-ONT.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:26 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 21):

As stated above, LAX has seen the 88 in the not so distant past and scheduled at that. The 90s aren't new fom MSP. You're just not going to see them this time of year. Just look at MSP-RSW; all 175/MD90 some weeks back but now all 757. MSP-LAS saw at least 2 daily 90s but is now all 757/32X/737.
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FX1816
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:46 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 21):
As far as I've ever seen, DL hasn't flown the M88s into LAX or any other LA area airport (perhaps if it has been flown into LAX, was it a charter?).

Do you really mean ever? DL used to fly the MD88 into ONT years ago and I definitely remember seeing them at LAX.

FX1816
 
The777Man
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:17 am

Quoting FX1816 (Reply 23):
Do you really mean ever? DL used to fly the MD88 into ONT years ago and I definitely remember seeing them at LAX.

DL did not schedule MD-88s to LAX at all before except for an occasional day or so. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen MD-88s at LAX in the last 17 years.

DL did use them to ONT for quite a while and I'm not sure of SNA or BUR.

MD-90s are currently scheduled MSP-LAX.

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brettdespain
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:09 pm

Quoting rbgso (Reply 3):
Can an MD88, or even an MD90, make it ATL-LAX against prevailing winds?

Not with any useful load of passengers. I don't recall that Delta has ever done it. The MD-90 just doesn't have the range for that route. However, I have flown the B-737NG from both ATL and JFK non-stop to LAX. It has much better range than the MD-90.

The MD-90's were moved from the SLC base to the MSP base with the idea that in MSP they would be able to reach both the west and east coast.

Current western destinations for the MD-90 from MSP are: SEA, PDX, SMF, SFO, SJC, LAX, LAS, SLC, DEN, PHX. In the two years since moving the MD-90 to MSP I have also flown it to GEG and BZN out of MSP as well. There have been occasions when some of these flights have been substituted with an MD-88. I flew an MD-88 between SLC and MSP for example.

The problem with flying the MD-90 from MSP to the west coast is that because its wing is so small, it is limited to FL280 to FL300. As many of you know, often times the lower altitudes subject to you to more turbulence and weather. A B-737-832 (which I flew for 9 years) can fly the same route at FL380 and later climb to FL400.

My impressions of the MD-90 after flying it for 2.5 years are mixed. It is a rugged, well built airplane that flies well and is generally very quiet. However, it is limited by a wing that is too small, avionics that were outdated when the airplanes were new and very inadequate cockpit cooling. I prefer flying the B-737, even with the smaller, noisier cockpit.
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laca773
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:42 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 22):
As stated above, LAX has seen the 88 in the not so distant past and scheduled at that. The 90s aren't new fom MSP. You're just not going to see them this time of year. Just look at MSP-RSW; all 175/MD90 some weeks back but now all 757. MSP-LAS saw at least 2 daily 90s but is now all 757/32X/737.
Quoting FX1816 (Reply 23):
Do you really mean ever? DL used to fly the MD88 into ONT years ago and I definitely remember seeing them at LAX.

FX1816

I mean close to never. I didn't think the M88s were capable of flying the distance ATL-LAX.
If anything, I think you have seen the M90s out of LAX and if you did see M88, I believe it would have been a charter of some form.

Quoting The777Man (Reply 24):

DL did not schedule MD-88s to LAX at all before except for an occasional day or so. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen MD-88s at LAX in the last 17 years.

DL did use them to ONT for quite a while and I'm not sure of SNA or BUR.

MD-90s are currently scheduled MSP-LAX.

Did DL send the M88 on DFW-ONT?

Quoting brettdespain (Reply 25):
ot with any useful load of passengers. I don't recall that Delta has ever done it. The MD-90 just doesn't have the range for that route. However, I have flown the B-737NG from both ATL and JFK non-stop to LAX. It has much better range than the MD-90.

The MD-90's were moved from the SLC base to the MSP base with the idea that in MSP they would be able to reach both the west and east coast.

Current western destinations for the MD-90 from MSP are: SEA, PDX, SMF, SFO, SJC, LAX, LAS, SLC, DEN, PHX. In the two years since moving the MD-90 to MSP I have also flown it to GEG and BZN out of MSP as well. There have been occasions when some of these flights have been substituted with an MD-88. I flew an MD-88 between SLC and MSP for example.

  

Quoting brettdespain (Reply 25):
The problem with flying the MD-90 from MSP to the west coast is that because its wing is so small, it is limited to FL280 to FL300. As many of you know, often times the lower altitudes subject to you to more turbulence and weather. A B-737-832 (which I flew for 9 years) can fly the same route at FL380 and later climb to FL400.

My impressions of the MD-90 after flying it for 2.5 years are mixed. It is a rugged, well built airplane that flies well and is generally very quiet. However, it is limited by a wing that is too small, avionics that were outdated when the airplanes were new and very inadequate cockpit cooling. I prefer flying the B-737, even with the smaller, noisier cockpit.

Thanks for the information, brettdespain. I didn't know that about the M90 having to fly at lower altitudes.
 
jayspilot
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:29 pm

I think there is confusion with several people about the actual type of equipment used on certain routes.

Here is what I can add to the discussion. Pre-9/11 (dfw hub in full swing) delta had a ton of different aircraft types. They had the MD-90 as a DFW crewed plane and really flew mostly dallas turns to cities from LGA to the west coast. The dfw crews were actually the only ones given the differences training to fly that jet vs the 88 for year. It was only 3 years ago that delta qualified all MD-88 pilots to fly the md-90's. When DFW closed the md-90's were shipped to SLC to replace the 737-300G which is the next jet I'll talk about and during that time only Salt Lake crews were given the differences training.

The 737-300G was a plane that only 737 crews in SLC were originoally qualified on and was aquired from a German airline specifically for the high altitude flying out of SLC. The 737-200 crews on the east coast didn't fly this A/C and the 800 crews didn't either. After the 737-g was shipped out of salt lake before it left the delta fleet it spent a few years replacing 737-800's and was put on the Shuttle to reduce capacity but keep frequency. The G flew LGA-DCA LGA-BOS during the week and on the weekends did Florida turns and NAS trips before being returned to the lease company.
 
tommy767
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:34 pm

Quoting jayspilot (Reply 27):

I thought the 733s out of SLC were from Western Airlines?

Plus I think they did ATL-ABE circa 2000
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B4REAL
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:55 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 7):
This was back sometime in 2009. I had to take a weight penalty I'm sure.

Didn't they take the entire MD-90 fleet offline at that time, meaning a lot of MD-88s filled in? I think that's why they did.
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United1
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:58 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 28):

I thought the 733s out of SLC were from Western Airlines?

The Western Airlines ones has the old style "steam cockpit" for lack of a better term the ones that came from the German airline had a glass cockpit hence the -300G....both were based in SLC at one point if I remember right. There was a point where I think they used the 733 non Gs on the shuttle as well.
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tommy767
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:09 pm

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 29):

I think the M90s were just scattered around the system. This was before the migration to MSP for the 90s.

Quoting United1 (Reply 30):
The Western Airlines ones has the old style "steam cockpit" for lack of a better term the ones that came from the German airline had a glass cockpit hence the -300G....both were based in SLC at one point if I remember right. There was a point where I think they used the 733 non Gs on the shuttle as well.

Ah gotcha. Yeah those things were pretty old. DL even had some 732s that were younger IIRC.
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phllax
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:06 pm

Quoting flyboy80 (Reply 11):
Yes this is a good point- I guess I've never really understood the differences between at the MD varriants (outside the 87/90 and size) Do the MD-83s just have bigger fuel tanks? Do they all have the same engines?

Ranges of MD Variants
81- 1,565 miles -147.10 length, 107.102 wingspan, 29.7 height for these 4 models
82 - 2,050 miles
83 - 2,504 miles
88 - 2,050 miles

87 - 2,370 miles - 130.5 length, 107.102 wingspan, 30.4 height

90 - 2,085 miles - 152.7 length, 107.10 wingspan, 30.6 height
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:47 pm

Quoting brettdespain (Reply 25):
Not with any useful load of passengers. I don't recall that Delta has ever done it.



Trust me. They have. Tommy has the time frame right too. It was during 2009. They were flying 88s ATL-LAX on the last departure and same to DEN for almost a week for some reason.

Quoting brettdespain (Reply 25):
However, I have flown the B-737NG from both ATL and JFK non-stop to LAX. It has much better range than the MD-90.



Childsplay   The 738 regularly does JFK-PDX/SEA non-stop.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 26):
I mean close to never. I didn't think the M88s were capable of flying the distance ATL-LAX.
If anything, I think you have seen the M90s out of LAX and if you did see M88, I believe it would have been a charter of some form.



No charter. It first caught my eye on our intranet site when I was trying to book some flights to LX. I found it odd they had an 88 that last flight and it went out for several days like that.

Capable with a Y capacity cap. It was something like 118 vs 128 which is the actual Y cap. That's a lot of weight. 220lbs in savings to be exact. Like I said, they do the same for STX-ATL on some days.
What gets measured gets done.
 
tommy767
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:12 pm

Quoting phllax (Reply 32):
81- 1,565 miles -147.10 length, 107.102 wingspan, 29.7 height for these 4 models

My only M81 was on US from LGA-MCO in 1999. Even then, it seemed old.

In the time since I've flown DL's M88, AA's 82/83, and CO's M82s. Of those AA's are probably the best equipped but they have way too many of them and the stage lengths are quite long. DL has a better system for the M88s, IMHO. Better to fly one on EWR-DTW than EWR-DFW for instance.
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AWACSooner
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:25 pm

The longest M88 route I can think of from ATL is ATL-ELP
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:05 am

Am I crazy or did AA sub in an MD83 SJC-JFK westbound right before the demise of the route?

Speaking of long MD80 flights!
 
steex
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:13 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 33):
Childsplay...The 738 regularly does JFK-PDX/SEA non-stop.

Can't tell if you were trying to give examples of routes that make ATL-LAX and JFK-LAX look like child's play, but JFK-PDX/SEA are both slightly shorter than JFK-LAX. Of course, JFK-LAX is all-752 these days.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:19 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 33):

Childsplay   The 738 regularly does JFK-PDX/SEA non-stop.

also has done LAX-BOS.
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:57 am

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 35):
The longest M88 route I can think of from ATL is ATL-ELP

Longest scheduled right now is actualy ATL-STX
What gets measured gets done.
 
The777Man
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:18 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 26):
Did DL send the M88 on DFW-ONT?

Not sure if it was ATL-ONT or DFW-ONT.

The777Man
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brettdespain
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:30 pm

Quoting jayspilot (Reply 27):
The 737-300G was a plane that only 737 crews in SLC were originoally qualified on and was aquired from a German airline specifically for the high altitude flying out of SLC

This is not correct. You are thinking of the 737-347's that were ex-Western Airlines birds. Only crews based in SLC and DFW flew the -347's, mainly in and out of SLC to mountain and west coast destinations. I know because I was one who flew the -347's in SLC. BTW, these airplanes had a single FMS and did not have a glass cockpit. Delta also bought two -300's from Western Pacific that were flown in the -347 category in SLC and DFW

You are correct that Delta bought some -300G's ("G" meaning glass cockpit) from a german carrier, however those airplanes were crewed only out of the ATL base, not SLC.

When Delta bought the 737-832's, the plan was to operate the -300G's and the -832 as a single category. I believe the ATL based guys did fly the -300G and -832's as a single category for a while. When I went to training on the -832 in 1999 we were issued manuals for both airplanes. However, before I got through training the decision was made to keep the -300G and the -832 as separate categories.

So for a few years we had 4 different 737 categories:
1. 737 category which consisted of flying the 737-200's
2. 737-347 category, which consisted of flying the -347's and -200's (SLC and DFW based only)
3. 737G category flying only the 737G airframes in ATL only.
4. 737NG category, which consisted of flying the -832's and -732's in SLC, LAX, CVG, NYC and ATL

[Edited 2012-04-01 07:58:14]
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brettdespain
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:49 pm

Quoting jayspilot (Reply 27):
The dfw crews were actually the only ones given the differences training to fly that jet vs the 88 for year. It was only 3 years ago that delta qualified all MD-88 pilots to fly the md-90's

Here's the timeline on the MD-90 at Delta:

1995 first deliveries of the MD-90 began arriving at Delta

1995-2005 MD-90's crewed only out of the DFW base. DFW crews also flew the MD-88. DFW base closes in 2005.

2005-2010 MD-90's crewed only out of SLC and CVG. SLC and CVG crews were also qualified on the MD-88.

2010 MD-90 SLC base moves to MSP. NYC based MD-88 pilot's were qualified on the MD-90 in late 2010.

2011 all Delta MD-88 aircrews become qualified to fly the MD-90.
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milesrich
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:41 pm

Quoting e38 (Reply 16):
Except for aircraft substitutions and/or irregular operations, the policy of Delta's network and scheduling development division is to NOT use the MD-88s to Denver and cities west of the Rocky Mountains.

e38

While Delta did not schedule the MD-88 out of SLC, it was used in regularly scheduled service in and out of Denver to Atlanta. Since the NW merger, and the addition of additional MD-90's, the MD-88 no longer serves the route.
 
RobertS975
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:10 pm

The problem with the MD88 and DL's usage in the western USA can be summed up by one issue: the SLC hub. The MD88 has issues with one engine climb-out on the airways out of SLC. What this means briefly is that if an MD88 were to lose an engine shortly after taking off from SLC, the necessary climb gradient to clear the terrain on the given IFR airways cannot be maintained by a heavy MD88. In fact, there are no published IFR routes ex-SLC that the MD88 can reliably use with a single engine. The key phrase here is "single engine climb gradient". MD88s can fly out of DEN ( a thousand feet higher elevation than SLC) to places like ATL or even EWR because the terrain is flat and the needed climb gradient is very gradual. MD80 variants were common in MEX, elevation above 7000 feet.

DL used MD88s into PHX/TUS from both ATL and CVG.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:12 pm

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 44):
DL used MD88s into PHX/TUS from both ATL and CVG.

Don't forget ABQ as well.
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RobertS975
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:12 pm

The single engine climb gradient issue out of SLC for the MD88 has been a pain the butt for DL for many years. The airline had over 100 MD88s and SLC was one its main hubs, and unfortunately, the MD88 never saw any use at SLC. It also prompted DL to obtain and maintain a relatively expensive small sub-fleet of MD90s. DL has added to its MD90 sub-fleet over time, but at one point, it was just a dozen or so aircraft.
 
TrijetsRMissed
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:26 pm

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 46):
It also prompted DL to obtain and maintain a relatively expensive small sub-fleet of MD90s.

The fleet of MD-90s could only be considered expensive due to economies of scale. That problem is solved with the recent secondhand acquisitions. But when DL placed the order for 31+115 with McDonnell Douglas, it was at a very nice discount, Ala' the deal AA had on the MD-82 order, some 10 years earlier.

In hindsight, it would have been better to continue with the new build MD-90 deliveries that were scheduled through 2001-2002, in addition to taking on the 738s that were ordered. Of course, Boeing swayed DL otherwise, and they were left with an oddball for 15 years. May have turned out differently if RA was CEO at the time.
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747fan
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:59 pm

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 44):
The problem with the MD88 and DL's usage in the western USA can be summed up by one issue: the SLC hub. The MD88 has issues with one engine climb-out on the airways out of SLC. What this means briefly is that if an MD88 were to lose an engine shortly after taking off from SLC, the necessary climb gradient to clear the terrain on the given IFR airways cannot be maintained by a heavy MD88

Interesting, I knew they had performance issues out of there. Although AA seems to do fine flying their MD-82's/-83's out of SLC to DFW. They've also flown them to ORD from SLC, which isn't exactly a short MD-80 route.
 
RobertS975
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RE: DL MD-88 Out Of LAX

Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:34 pm

Quoting 747fan (Reply 48):
Interesting, I knew they had performance issues out of there. Although AA seems to do fine flying their MD-82's/-83's out of SLC to DFW. They've also flown them to ORD from SLC, which isn't exactly a short MD-80 route.

You raise an interesting point for which I have no answer. Maybe AA had significant weight restrictions ex-SLC. I know that CO used to keep 20+ seats empty on their MD80 series flight ex-DEN to many east coast cities back in the days of a CO DEN hub. And that was simply due to balanced field distances at Stapleton, nothing related to single engine climb gradients.

DL has plenty of short (ie. light weight) routes out of SLC, but still never used the MD88s for the reasons that I have related. If the weather is clear, they could have obviously picked their way through the passes, but that is not how the ATC system works. If the MD88 loses an engine on rotation or climb out, it has to fly the airways at certain minimum crossing altitudes (MCAs) and minimum enroute altitudes (MEAs).

Next time you are aboard a DL MD88, chat with the pilots either before or after the flight.

But one thing for sure... with over 100 MD88s in their fleet, DL would have dearly loved to use the aircraft in one of their major domestic hubs if they could.