yeogeo
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AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:01 pm

Both Northstarboy and BNAOWB emailed/IM'd me this morning about this development, obviously big new in the world of long-haul flights! (6366nm, by the way).

Aerolíneas Argentinas will be ending service to Auckland and flying Buenos Aires to Sydney nonstop with its A-340's come 1 July.

With Qantas ending their EZE-SYD flight this Spring I'm happy to see (what I believe is) the world's most southerly reg sched. flight continue.




I hope AR can make a go of it.

yeo

[Edited 2012-03-29 08:05:50]
One great use of words is to hide our thoughts. Voltaire
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:01 pm

No official word from AR yet, but certainly an interesting development.

I suppose that only leaves LAN as the remaining Latin American carrier on the trans-Tasman route.
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
MD11junkie
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:04 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 1):
No official word from AR yet, but certainly an interesting development.

I suppose that only leaves LAN as the remaining Latin American carrier on the trans-Tasman route.

It is official. Flight schedules were published today.

AR1180 - Buenos Aires (EZE) - Sydney (SYD) OPS 135
Departs: 0830
Arrives: 1320 (+1)
TFT: 15h 50min

AR1181 - Sydney (SYD) - Buenos Aires (EZE) OPS 135
Departs: 1830
Arrives: 1955
TFT: 14h 25min

Saludos,
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
 
AR385
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:08 pm

Best strategic decision on the part of AR for a long time. Taking advantage of QF leaving the market and probably attracting a lot of traffic from the most likely high fares QF and LA will charge from SCL.

I hope they do good with this decision.
 
qf002
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:15 pm

Nice. Will be interesting to see how this pans out.
 
jfk777
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:05 pm

Wondering how much of this could be the event last year in AKL when an AR flight was stranded and passengers were stuck in the terminal since they didn't have visa to enter NZ. Since AR's credit was no good, the plane was stuck there witha bad engine for days.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:03 pm

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 2):
It is official. Flight schedules were published today.

AR1180 - Buenos Aires (EZE) - Sydney (SYD) OPS 135
Departs: 0830
Arrives: 1320 (+1)
TFT: 15h 50min

AR1181 - Sydney (SYD) - Buenos Aires (EZE) OPS 135
Departs: 1830
Arrives: 1955
TFT: 14h 25min

Interesting, the initial rumours had a tech stop in AKL westbound, they must have decided that they can manage without it. Not sure how they can operate 135 out of SYD when they arrive there 246 ?
 
MD11junkie
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:07 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):
Wondering how much of this could be the event last year in AKL when an AR flight was stranded and passengers were stuck in the terminal since they didn't have visa to enter NZ. Since AR's credit was no good, the plane was stuck there witha bad engine for days.

None of it.

And that situation never happened. A spare engine was rented from AF and the plane flew back to EZE within 72hs of the issue happening.

Andrew,

I might have read the schedules incorrectly.

Saludos,
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
 
jfk777
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:20 pm

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 7):
And that situation never happened. A spare engine was rented from AF and the plane flew back to EZE within 72hs of the issue happening.

72 hours is still 2 days too long to have 200 people stuck 6000 miles from EZE.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:27 pm

Quoting yeogeo (Thread starter):
Aerolíneas Argentinas will be ending service to Auckland and flying Buenos Aires to Sydney nonstop with its A-340's come 1 July.

I wonder if this is in response to QF's nonstop service that ended already  
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MD11junkie
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:38 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 8):

72 hours is still 2 days too long to have 200 people stuck 6000 miles from EZE.

The plane was ferried back, AKA empty.
People were flown back on a plane ferried to AKL for that special circumstance. People spent 24hs in AKL, at most. People who were in urge, were paid for their tickets in LA.

Saludos,
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
 
Rafabozzolla
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:59 pm

Awful schedule. Very low connectivity at EZE for both outbound and inbound flights.
 
GUYAIR707
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:22 pm

Hell of a route almost over the south pole. Nice!!

GUYAIR707
 
nickofatlanta
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:17 pm

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 11):
Awful schedule. Very low connectivity at EZE for both outbound and inbound flights.

I agree - I understand that a significant portion of passengers on this flights are to/from Brazil - to the point that when AR transferred their GRU flights to AEP, they left one flight at EZE to connect with AKL/SYD.
 
nickofatlanta
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:26 pm

Looks like this flight does still connect to/from GIG/GRU in both directions - although on the return to SYD, the flights entail red-eyes from Brazil to EZE.
 
ghost77
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:41 pm

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 11):
Awful schedule. Very low connectivity at EZE for both outbound and inbound flights.

Agree!!!

When will AR move it's flights from AEP to EZE.

At least, cutting costs and closing AKL is a good decision. MEX and CUN should follow soon.

g77
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
roseflyer
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:06 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 6):
Interesting, the initial rumours had a tech stop in AKL westbound, they must have decided that they can manage without it. Not sure how they can operate 135 out of SYD when they arrive there 246 ?

It is a long flight, but the A342 has pretty good range. I would have thought a tech stop in CHC would be better. That saves about 300 miles.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
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NZ107
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:11 pm

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 2):

It looks like the only good thing about the timing is that it might allow for a viewing of Antarctica if it flies south enough during summer!
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
aeroflop
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:47 pm

About time they pulled out. When I used to work on the ramp we would load only 2 baggage ULDs maximum! Who would fly with them across the tasman anyway. They don't advertise and I only found out they fly the ditch when I started working at the airport!
 
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NZ107
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:59 pm

Quoting aeroflop (Reply 18):
Who would fly with them across the tasman anyway

It was fun not only to log the A342 which is rare but also take advantage to try out another airline who has the advantage of the 5th freedom rights between NZ and Australia.

Mission A340: Aerolineas Argentinas A342 AKL-SYD (by NZ107 Sep 1 2010 in Trip Reports)
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
ABpositive
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:59 am

Would they consider moving from SYD to MEL? It would be a bit closer and MEL is cheaper and more flexible to operate out of. They both have fairly similar connectivity to the rest of Australia (with easier terminal change in MEL). Is O&D traffic out of SYD that much bigger?
 
luckyone
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:10 am

Quoting ghost77 (Reply 15):
When will AR move it's flights from AEP to EZE.

Probably never. AEP is quite conveniently located within the city. It's a short drive from the business district and an even shorter one from the upscale neighborhoods. EZE is most decidedly none of that. If AEP could handle it, you would see flights being moved there in droves.
 
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cybergus
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:13 am

Great news for AR. Going out a little bit off topic here...but with the addition of new eq. and doing some itinerary changes like this one and given the "fact" that AR is getting into ST, can we see them adding a new route to a ST hub? MEX, CDG or JFK? I know they will be code sharing with DL from MIA and I guess that UX will do the job in MAD and AZ in FCO, but do you think we can see AR metal in the previous routes?

Cheers
LAN Excellence in Flight
 
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mariner
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:30 am

Quoting aeroflop (Reply 18):
Who would fly with them across the tasman anyway. They don't advertise and I only found out they fly the ditch when I started working at the airport!

I flew AKL-SYD with Aerolineas and would do so again, it was quite pleasant. It was also quite cheap.  

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
avrich
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:16 am

Must be good news for NZ. The kiwi airline has been eyeing South America for some time and the upcoming charter to take the All Blacks to Argentina is seen as an opportunity to fly the flag in a potential new market. This leaves LAN as the only airline flying between NZ and South America.
"Time....the fighter pilots enemy" Flt Lt CJW Roscoe Tanner 1962-1991
 
AR385
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:40 am

What´s weird, was that in the past the AR flight terminated in AKL, and the SYD leg was discontinued. On and off during the 80s. I have the maps. But, AKL was never discontinued. I guess times change.
 
tayser
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:16 am

Quoting ABpositive (Reply 20):

Would they consider moving from SYD to MEL? It would be a bit closer and MEL is cheaper and more flexible to operate out of. They both have fairly similar connectivity to the rest of Australia (with easier terminal change in MEL). Is O&D traffic out of SYD that much bigger?

AR started EZE-MEL-EZE in 1980 according to their own history page with a "747" - assume that was a 742?
 
Rafabozzolla
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:59 am

Quoting nickofatlanta (Reply 14):
Looks like this flight does still connect to/from GIG/GRU in both directions - although on the return to SYD, the flights entail red-eyes from Brazil to EZE.

I had a look at AR schedules and couldn't see that.
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:10 pm

Quoting tayser (Reply 26):
Quoting ABpositive (Reply 20):

Would they consider moving from SYD to MEL? It would be a bit closer and MEL is cheaper and more flexible to operate out of. They both have fairly similar connectivity to the rest of Australia (with easier terminal change in MEL). Is O&D traffic out of SYD that much bigger?

AR started EZE-MEL-EZE in 1980 according to their own history page with a "747" - assume that was a 742?

I think it was a 747SP built for Braniff. Braniff was unable to take delivery, so AR was able to buy it from Braniff at a very low price.
Seaholm Maples are #1!
 
AR385
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:44 pm

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 28):
I think it was a 747SP built for Braniff. Braniff was unable to take delivery, so AR was able to buy it from Braniff at a very low price.

Yes, but it was never intended for that purpose. It was exclusively to fly the EZE-FCO-FRA nonstop with a full payload. Since then came the Malvinas war, most of its European flights were cut and the flight was relegated to

EZE-LIM-MEX-LAX
EZE-LIM-LAX
And one other I can´t remember but as far as I know it never saw service on the Southern Polar route.
 
MD11junkie
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:23 pm

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 27):

I had a look at AR schedules and couldn't see that.

Yep, it is there:

01 GRU EZE 0135 0430 AR2277 Z4 Y4 L4 B4 H4 K4 M4 V4 N0 E90
Q0 O0 W0 S4 G4 A4 R4 E0
OPERATED BY AUSTRAL LINEAS AEREAS
02 SYD 0830#1320 AR1180 J4 D4 C4 Y4 B4 H4 K4 M4 V4 340
N4 L4 Q4 O4 W4 S4 G4 A4 R4
E0

Saludos,
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
 
yeogeo
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:31 pm

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 12):
Hell of a route almost over the south pole. Nice!!

Not only that, but a hell of a long route as well  

(For aviation stat junkies only):
It will be the 38th longest reg. sched. pax flight currently and will continue to be EZE's longest,
AND will be the longest 343 reg/sched flight in the world (or series 342? anyone know which series is to be operated?), just edging out Philippines MNL-LAX service by 18 nautical miles:
World's Longest Flights 15 March Update (by yeogeo Feb 26 2012 in Aviation Polls)

cheers!
yeo
One great use of words is to hide our thoughts. Voltaire
 
jfk777
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:29 pm

AR usd to fly the Australia route once weekly with a 742 stopping in Fortaleza at the buttom of Aregntina.
 
MD11junkie
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:08 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 32):
AR usd to fly the Australia route once weekly with a 742 stopping in Fortaleza at the buttom of Aregntina.

Fortaleza is in Brazil.
You mean Rio Gallegos (RGL). That went on to AKL and then on to SYD.

Saludos,
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
 
GUYAIR707
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:57 pm

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 31):

Do you think pax would prefer a two leg flight vs this longer flight? Seems like punishment for those in Economy. I can't handle a 5-6 hour GEO-JFK flight if I am in Economy, muchless this what 15-16 hour flight.

GUYAIR707
 
jfk777
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:14 am

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 33):
Fortaleza is in Brazil.
You mean Rio Gallegos (RGL). That went on to AKL and then on to SYD.

Your are right , my bad, but a city named "Rio" in South America seems so Brazilan.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:49 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 35):
Your are right , my bad, but a city named "Rio" in South America seems so Brazilan.

Rio = River. There are lots of Rivers in South American that aren't Brazilian... 
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
jfk777
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:51 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 36):
Rio = River. There are lots of Rivers in South American that aren't Brazilian...

I know, English was not my first Language. The city where the "Rio Magdalena" goes through was my first language.
 
yeogeo
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:23 am

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 34):
Do you think pax would prefer a two leg flight vs this longer flight? Seems like punishment for those in Economy. I can't handle a 5-6 hour GEO-JFK flight if I am in Economy, muchless this what 15-16 hour flight.

Well it takes all types... Some think of nothing submitting to 10+ hrs in coach. I, for one, will never do a ULH flight any more without saving up miles or money for Business; these old knees would drive me insane or drive me to some pretty serious drugs sitting in coach that long. Younger folks can handle it  

yeo
One great use of words is to hide our thoughts. Voltaire
 
Gemuser
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:52 am

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 38):
Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 34):
Do you think pax would prefer a two leg flight vs this longer flight? Seems like punishment for those in Economy. I can't handle a 5-6 hour GEO-JFK flight if I am in Economy, muchless this what 15-16 hour flight.

Well it takes all types... Some think of nothing submitting to 10+ hrs in coach. I, for one, will never do a ULH flight any more without saving up miles or money for Business; these old knees would drive me insane or drive me to some pretty serious drugs sitting in coach that long. Younger folks can handle it

Most Aussies think nothing of the 24 hour flight to Europe in Y. It's what you have to do to get there! True there is a stop but the sectors are still 8hrs + 14hrs +1.5hr transit time.
I'm currently booked for 13-14 hour sectors, SYD-SFO & LAX-SYD on UA. No real problem on a B744, it's even OK on a 3-3-3 B777 (my least favorite aircraft). The one thing I personally can't cope with on long haul sectors is 3-4-3 B777 such as EK, NZ, AF & KL use. The 8 hours SYD-BKK had me climbing the walls!

Gemuser
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zhiao
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:43 am

What a scary route path; I hope there's no risk of falling into space!
 
tayser
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:52 pm

^ I realise you're taking the p*ss / posting in jest, however human ingenuity has progressed a lot since pre-1500 when Columbus disproved the theory the world is flat.....

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 34):
Do you think pax would prefer a two leg flight vs this longer flight? Seems like punishment for those in Economy. I can't handle a 5-6 hour GEO-JFK flight if I am in Economy, muchless this what 15-16 hour flight.

GUYAIR707

like what gemuser said, 15 is not abnormal. Australian East Coast to US West Coast, S.E. Asia (KUL/SIN) to Europe - all very "familiar" to the travelling public in Australia (yes probably not so much to the South American travelling public) - this argument reminds me of family in the UK - they refuse to get on a flight longer than 4-5 hours, so all they do is travel around Europe - they automatically exclude North America, Asia, Africa and Oceania *yawn*

What's the other option? Flying to LAX then flying down to South America? no thanks! Bollocks airport (and country/visa restrictions for many in Latin/South America) to transfer at and making the total transit time well over 24 hours...
 
cgnnrw
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:05 pm

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 33):
You mean Rio Gallegos (RGL). That went on to AKL and then on to SYD

Back in 1997 I visited Argentina (absolutely a great country) and my friend and I spent a few days in Calafate. We flew back to EZE via Rio Gallegos on an AR747 coming in from Sydney. The airport in RGL was/is very small and to see a huge 747 parked in front ot the terminal was quite something. The flight to EZE was about 3 hours and the service was actually quite good. Nice lunch and lots of Quillmes to go along with it!
A330 man.
 
dennys
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:07 pm

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 30):

Hi could you confirm us that info is taken from Amadeus ?
In that case , 340 would mean A340-200 .
Many thanks
regards
 
GUYAIR707
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:27 pm

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 38):
Quoting zhiao (Reply 40):
Quoting tayser (Reply 41):

Yeah you have to do what you have to do. The longest I have done was a LHR-CPT on VS A343. Fortunately for me the entire back row was empty, so after getting fed up with watching movies on their IFE I stretched out and slept. I don't mind the long flights in Economy, but I always seem to get the middle seat with two oversized persons flanking me. Since I am not exactly skinny it really sucks on those flights.

@tayser I agree the other option is not worth it.

GUYAIR707
 
Viscount724
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:49 pm

Quoting gemuser (Reply 39):
No real problem on a B744, it's even OK on a 3-3-3 B777 (my least favorite aircraft).

Why do you consider the 3-3-3 777 less desirable than the 3-4-3 744? The 777 at 9-abreast is slightly more spacious than the 10-abreast 747. I certainly avoid any 10-abreast 777s but I've never noticed much if any difference between 9-abreast 777s and 10-abreast 747s.
 
dennys
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:09 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 16):

Hi Rosefly , can you confirm the aircraft shall be an A340-200 ?
Thks regards
dennys
 
Gemuser
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:01 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 45):
but I've never noticed much if any difference between 9-abreast 777s and 10-abreast 747s.

Exactly my point, there is not much if any difference in the seating 9 abreast in a B777 and a 10 abreast B747. I prefer the B747 over the B777 because cabin is wider, there is more circulating space and it generally feels more spacious than the B777. The B747 just feels, to me, to be a more stable and solid aircraft, especially when penetrating the ITC. Just my    worth.

Gemuser
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Viscount724
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:39 pm

Quoting gemuser (Reply 47):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 45):
but I've never noticed much if any difference between 9-abreast 777s and 10-abreast 747s.

Exactly my point, there is not much if any difference in the seating 9 abreast in a B777 and a 10 abreast B747. I prefer the B747 over the B777 because cabin is wider, there is more circulating space and it generally feels more spacious than the B777.

747 also has a slightly higher percentage of middle seats (40%) than the 3-3-3 777 (33%). The 777 also gives you a slightly better chance of having an empty seat next to you if the flight isn't full as it can be 67% full before anyone has to sit in a middle seat, versus. 60% on the 747.
 
MD11junkie
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RE: AR To Drop AKL, Start EZE-SYD Nonstop

Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:56 am

Quoting dennys (Reply 46):
Hi Rosefly , can you confirm the aircraft shall be an A340-200 ?
Thks regards
dennys

A340-200 or A340-300X

A342 when on the route, will be limited in Y189.

Saludos,
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!

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