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EK413
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Qantas A380 VH-OQA Nancy Bird QF arriving SYD 22/04

Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:55 am

Hello All,

Just delighted to inform everyone the return to service of Qantas' 1st A380 'Nancy Bird' VH-OQA scheduled to operate QF127 on the 28th of April...

Looking forward to seeing this bird being welcomed back into the family...

Considering how long this aircraft was grounded I believe it deserved its own thread...

EK413  
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lhr380
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Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:16 am

Great to see her flying again after so long.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
B747forever
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Qantas A380 VH-OQA Nancy Bird QF arriving SYD 22/04

Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:19 am

Quoting EK413 (Thread starter):
Considering how long this aircraft was grounded I believe it deserved its own thread...

So for how long has it been grounded?
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EK413
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Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:31 am

Quoting B747forever (Reply 2):

Since November 2010...

EK413
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Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:59 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 3):
Since November 2010

Yikes, as badly as QF needed this aircraft in service, that's quite a long hit for QF. Who pays for lost revenue with the 380 while it's been down, insurance or did QF eat the costs?
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Virginblue4
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Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:15 am

Great news! Will be good to see some photos of her back in the air  
The amazing tale of flight.
 
qf002
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Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:21 am

Good news! Will be interesting to see if this deadline actually materialises (I hope it does! But I'll believe it when I see it!)

Any word on her arrival back in SYD? Might be worth a quick trip past the airport 
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 4):
Yikes, as badly as QF needed this aircraft in service, that's quite a long hit for QF. Who pays for lost revenue with the 380 while it's been down, insurance or did QF eat the costs?

QF received a compensation settlement from Rolls Royce, which was included in the FY10-11 reports. The total amount was never disclosed (IIRC), but it was said to be $80-100million.

As for repair costs -- I imagine that they will be initially settled by QF's insurance company, who will likely go after Rolls Royce for reimbursement...
 
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EK413
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Qantas A380 VH-OQA Nancy Bird QF arriving SYD 22/04

Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:54 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 6):

Unfortunately we only able to retrieve a return to schedule service date... I would imagine the aircraft to be ferried to Sydney a week prior to entry into service...

EK413
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Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:13 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 6):
QF received a compensation settlement from Rolls Royce, which was included in the FY10-11 reports. The total amount was never disclosed (IIRC), but it was said to be $80-100million

Would this really be enough to properly compensate QF for the loss of revenue and service?
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Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:17 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 8):

I believe the final amount of compensation was a higher figure and to answer your question its definitely not enough considering the revenue losses...

EK413
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qf002
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Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:22 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 8):
Would this really be enough to properly compensate QF for the loss of revenue and service?

QF, RR and all the various lawyers seem to think so... I was also apprehensive about this figure at first, but you have to remember that a lot of the cost would probably have stemmed from QF's fleet-wide grounding, for which responsibility lies with QF.

The extra 150-odd seats in the A380 could probably only have generated an extra $50-70million or so in additional revenue (max) over 18 months, plus the compensation would account for the additional fuel burn/depreciation of retaining a 744.

Doesn't seem too far off IMO, for covering the cost of the single aircraft out of service for around 18 months. They might well get more yet (seeing as the repair time has stretched out considerably since the settlement date 12 months ago)...
 
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Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:40 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 7):
I would imagine the aircraft to be ferried to Sydney a week prior to entry into service...

Any information whether it will go to TLS first off, for a thorough check by Airbus as we previously discussed ?
Flown on:_CRJ, CR& D10 DHT DH8, DH2, DH3, DH4, EMB, E45, E75, E90, F28 J32 M80 SH6 320, 32B, 332, 333, 380, 717, 732, 733, 734, 73H, 743, 744, 752 762, 763, 772, 77W
 
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Qantas A380 VH-OQA Nancy Bird QF arriving SYD 22/04

Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:48 pm

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 11):
Any information whether it will go to TLS first off, for a thorough check by Airbus as we previously discussed ?

Will post any updates... The re-entry to service is the only information at the moment...

EK413
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Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:58 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 6):
QF received a compensation settlement from Rolls Royce, which was included in the FY10-11 reports. The total amount was never disclosed (IIRC), but it was said to be $80-100million

I hate adding a "friend said"-type post, but I do actually know someone high up at RR. He openly told me when I asked that the figure was £52 million (whatever that translates to AUD).
 
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Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:07 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 10):
The extra 150-odd seats in the A380 could probably only have generated an extra $50-70million or so in additional revenue (max) over 18 months

Do you happen to know on which basis this figure is calculated? The difference between 150 seats on one long haul per calender day at full fares, and what they would have really earned [number of seats x actual fares] should be vast.
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EK413
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Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:27 pm

Quoting vhtje (Reply 13):
He openly told me when I asked that the figure was £52 million (whatever that translates to AUD).

Calculates to the sum of AUD$79,951,975.35...

EK413
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Milesdependent
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Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:10 pm

Am guessing they won't advise pax they are the the first flight back in service for this aircraft !!
 
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EK413
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Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:38 pm

Here's latest picture taken on February 24, 2012 in Singapore Changi Airport http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxunterwegs/6823753056/

EK413
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qf002
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Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:26 pm

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 11):
Any information whether it will go to TLS first off, for a thorough check by Airbus as we previously discussed ?
This article was raised on another thread a few weeks ago:

"Mr Milne said the aircraft would undergo a series of flight tests in the city-state before being brought back into service."

I very much doubt a trip to TLS is in order...

Quoting something (Reply 14):
Do you happen to know on which basis this figure is calculated? The difference between 150 seats on one long haul per calender day at full fares, and what they would have really earned [number of seats x actual fares] should be vast.

That was a very bad and rough figure that I just hastily calculated on my phone... I based this on the assumption that 90% of the additional seats would have been filled on average (generous figure IMO), and that the aircraft would have flown around 250 flights a year (given that LHR and LAX rotations are notoriously poor for QF's utilisation, and factoring in maintenance and all that usual stuff).

Given that the vast majority of that seat increase is in Y (F seat count is the same across both, and W is very similar. The J increase would have been 6-20 seats), I then took a rough estimation at around $1300 revenue per seat (assuming an average Y fare of $1000 and an average J fare of $5000) and did the basic calculation... These are all extremely generous figures (once you consider the taxes that get taken out of the quoted cost). It helps that QF tends to charge pretty similar fares to both LHR and LAX.

It's dodgy, I know. But this is pretty much the best case scenario that QF could have argued for in negotiations -- this is why I used the word max...
 
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Qantas A380 VH-OQA Nancy Bird QF arriving SYD 22/04

Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:49 pm

Quoting EK413 (Thread starter):
Just delighted to inform everyone the return to service of Qantas' 1st A380 'Nancy Bird' VH-OQA scheduled to operate QF127 on the 28th of April...

For one second I've been dreaming you'd announce the re-enter into service of a 747... There I'd be delighted!  
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babybus
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Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:58 pm

That incident, embarrassing for RR as it was, was also a great example of the strength and ability of the A380 airframe.

It will be great to have it back in service after all this time and I'm sure a great relief to passengers on long haul routes which were served by this aircraft.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
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Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:58 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 18):

The aircraft is only scheduled for the one rotation SYD-HKG-SYD... Take it QF is taking a safe approach to the re-entry to service...

Nevertheless, great to see her back!

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Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:08 am

I'm glad Nancy is almost ready to be back in service. I hope to fly on her for my SYD-HKG flight in June.

I wonder if she will be mainly flying the HKG route to start with? Ease her back into service?
 
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Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:22 am

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 22):
I wonder if she will be mainly flying the HKG route to start with? Ease her back into service?

In previous threads it's been mention she would probably be restricted to the HKG route but I highly doubt this would be the case... QF is more than likely taking the safe approach easing her in on the one route...

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Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:48 am

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 22):

QFA0127/28APR126    SYD  - HKG
QFA0128/28APR126    HKG  - SYD
QFA0011/29APR127    SYD  - LAX
QFA0094/30APR127    LAX  - MEL
QFA0009/01MAY122    MEL  - SIN
                                    SIN  - LHR
QFA0010/02MAY123    LHR  - SIN
                                    SIN  - MEL
QFA0093/03MAY125    MEL  - LAX
QFA0012/05MAY125    LAX  - SYD

Scheduling update, appears she's making up for lost time in the air...

EK413
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Panman
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Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:10 am

This is all dependent on nothing untoward being picked up on the rejected take off planned for 14 April, and flight tests planned for 15/16 and 18/19 April.

pAnmAn
 
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Qantas A380 VH-OQA Nancy Bird QF arriving SYD 22/04

Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:05 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 24):
Scheduling update, appears she's making up for lost time in the air...

Thanks for the update... She's obviously being made to prove herself   No doubt all these flights will be important in gauging the real-world performance of the repairs.

Quoting Panman (Reply 25):
rejected take off planned for 14 April, and flight tests planned for 15/16 and 18/19 April.

Thanks for those dates   Looking forward to seeing the photos here!!
 
4tet
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Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:31 am

A compensation of 'clean' $80M - $100M ( without risk, without any management fees, maintenance or whatever ) for the 1.5 years of lost revenue just doesn't make sense to me, at all.

Considering that the price of a new aircraft is around $350M, it would mean that in 4-something years they would have their investment 100% back ( In a fast way of calculating things, obviously ) that's a ROI of 20% - 25% aprox. which it is simply incredible for a 'industrial' business...

That means QANTAS should be making lots of profits every year, and not just $250M (as per wiki)...

R.
 
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Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:47 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 26):

The scheduling certainly proves the aircraft wont be restricted to HKG and the repairs haven't effected the aircrafts efficiency...

EK413
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thegeek
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Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:34 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 8):
Would this really be enough to properly compensate QF for the loss of revenue and service?

I don't see why not. The frame itself is only worth around $200mil-$400mil. I can't imagine it pays for itself every 4 years. QF can relatively easily provide the lift with the remaining fleet.
 
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Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:35 am

Quoting 4tet (Reply 27):
A compensation of 'clean' $80M - $100M ( without risk, without any management fees, maintenance or whatever ) for the 1.5 years of lost revenue just doesn't make sense to me, at all.

Considering that the price of a new aircraft is around $350M, it would mean that in 4-something years they would have their investment 100% back ( In a fast way of calculating things, obviously ) that's a ROI of 20% - 25% aprox. which it is simply incredible for a 'industrial' business...

That means QANTAS should be making lots of profits every year, and not just $250M (as per wiki)...

Don't forget the damage to the brand that has occurred, the cost of hotels/alternative flights for passengers affected, pax compensation where necessary etc. That would have all been a part of this payout, and could have totaled several million given the plane was nearly full. (450 pax at $2000 costs each is already almost $1million).

I'm certainly not suggesting that QF makes $50mil a year per A380, but rather that the cost of having this aircraft out of service could be as much as $50mil a year... This doesn't necessarily mean that they are making any money off their A380 fleet, but having this aircraft out of service might have contributed a significant amount to the losses that these flights make. It's often said that the A380 is the difference between making and loosing money for QF in some cases.

As an aside -- profit before tax was over $500million last year -- all the figures I'm referring to obviously occur prior to the deduction due to tax  
Quoting EK413 (Reply 28):
The scheduling certainly proves the aircraft wont be restricted to HKG and the repairs haven't effected the aircrafts efficiency...

As some of us always argued  
 
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Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:51 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 30):

Yes, many of us argued she would've been "weight restricted"...

EK413
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thegeek
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Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:38 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 31):
Yes, many of us argued she would've been "weight restricted"...

She will be. Just not very much.
 
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Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:04 am

Quoting thegeek (Reply 32):

Weight restricted was the wrong term... Restricted to operate the SYD-HKG sectors...

Even if the aircraft is weight restricted how many seats are to be blocked?

EK413
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rendezvous
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Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:29 am

How many parts have been repaired compared to replaced? If parts are simply replaced there shouldn't be much difference in weight.
 
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EK413
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Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:39 am

Quoting thegeek (Reply 32):
Quoting rendezvous (Reply 34):

I don't have the details on parts repaired vs parts replaced... I've read the aircraft would weigh an extra 200kg which certainly isn't a lot...

EK413
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qf002
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Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:20 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 35):
I don't have the details on parts repaired vs parts replaced... I've read the aircraft would weigh an extra 200kg which certainly isn't a lot...

The extra weight is said to come from the reinforcement of the new skin over the damaged areas and that sort of thing. It's really not much extra, and will be a matter of km's in terms of range.
 
rcair1
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Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:05 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 30):
Don't forget the damage to the brand that has occurred,

What damage? QF and the crew did a wonderful job. Damage to RR maybe,
rcair1
 
qf002
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Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:49 pm

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 37):
What damage? QF and the crew did a wonderful job. Damage to RR maybe,

Did you see the Australian media in the days after the incident?

Even throughout December 2010 and 2011, any media report about QF was opened with the line "In a year when QF has been locked into intense battles with unions over pay and conditions, and has been fighting the danger of constantly exploding aircraft..." (slight exageration on my part)...

QF took a beating in the press, and when combined with the rest of 2011, the media did a nice job of blowing the whole thing out of proportion...

Long term damage -- really not that serious. Short term damage -- pretty bad (ie the old "I'll never fly QF again" over and over).
 
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Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:39 pm

From ATW Daily News........

The Qantas (QF) Airbus A380 that has been stranded in Singapore since the uncontained engine failure Nov. 4, 2010 will return to service in May (ATW Daily News, Nov. 5, 2010).

QF CEO Alan Joyce told ATW in Berlin last week that repair costs will be around AUD150 million ($156.9 million). “It is probably the biggest repair [that has been] done on an aircraft, as well as the biggest insurance claim on an aircraft,” Joyce said.
 
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Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:35 pm

Quoting n471wn (Reply 39):
QF CEO Alan Joyce told ATW in Berlin last week that repair costs will be around AUD150 million ($156.9 million). “It is probably the biggest repair [that has been] done on an aircraft, as well as the biggest insurance claim on an aircraft,” Joyce said.

If that is a true number, it is a very, very big number. Wonder if the reporter got it right, and if he did, wonder if Joyce was including the lost revenues or profits and other costs associated with the event as well.
 
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Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:13 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 38):

& not to mention how every single minor incident involving QF was blown out of proportion including the B744 engine failures...

EK413
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Sydscott
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Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:06 am

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 40):
If that is a true number, it is a very, very big number. Wonder if the reporter got it right, and if he did, wonder if Joyce was including the lost revenues or profits and other costs associated with the event as well.

That's been the quoted price to repair the aircraft and get it back into service for a while now. ANd no it doesn't include lost profits and other costs but it likely does include the flight testing that would need to be done to bring the aircraft back into service and the interior refresh.

Either way this is good news for Qantas. They need all 12 A380's operating in the fleet now that 744 retirements are being accelerated. The only thing now is going to be watching the A380 wing cracking to make sure that is properly fixed by Airbus.
 
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Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:09 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 41):
not to mention how every single minor incident involving QF was blown out of proportion including the B744 engine failures...

Some of what the Australian media spew about Qantas is simply disgusting. It starts with "200 passengers feared for their lives when their flight had to abort landing at Melbourne on Monday" and goes down hill very fast.

Never read anything about a DJ go-around though...
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qf002
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Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:02 am

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 40):
If that is a true number, it is a very, very big number. Wonder if the reporter got it right, and if he did, wonder if Joyce was including the lost revenues or profits and other costs associated with the event as well.

He got the date of return to service wrong (given the current information), so I'm taking it with a pinch of salt. I could see it being that high, but we don't know what the reporter (or AJ) have included in that figure.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 41):
& not to mention how every single minor incident involving QF was blown out of proportion including the B744 engine failures...

  
 
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Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:44 am

Quoting n471wn (Reply 39):
The Qantas (QF) Airbus A380 that has been stranded in Singapore since the uncontained engine failure Nov. 4, 2010 will return to service in May (ATW Daily News, Nov. 5, 2010).

My reliable source of information yet again gets it right  
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 43):

Wow there was problems with the engines (0:48 seconds) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-Tsl2hl5MM

You got to love it when they interview the passengers...

EK413
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RyanairGuru
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Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:59 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 45):
Wow there was problems with the engines (0:48 seconds) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-Tsl2hl5MM

You got to love it when they interview the passengers...

"We were told that there was a problem with one of the engines on the left hand side of the plane, so the plane turned round, discharged the fuel, circled around Bangkok, and eventually landed. Then we sat on the runway for half an hour or so, and then we were told to get off the plane".

Well I do hope they were offered counseling  

The worst part though is the quality of the journalism. The harrowing story recounted above was led in with the reporter saying "Another passenger said he was advised to leave the plane due to a failed engine"...

I am however impressed that they managed to not mention Nancy Bird until the end of the story when, you guessed it! "A mid-air engine explosion in a Qantas A380 last year ... shook confidence in the carrier"   
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Qantas A380 VH-OQA Nancy Bird QF arriving SYD 22/04

Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:02 am

A little birdie whispered in my ear and I can confirm Nancy Bird will return to revenue service on the 21st of April... no brainer as to which flight number she will operate from SIN  

EK413
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qf002
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Qantas A380 VH-OQA Nancy Bird QF arriving SYD 22/04

Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:19 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 47):

A little birdie whispered in my ear and I can confirm Nancy Bird will return to revenue service on the 21st of April... no brainer as to which flight number she will operate from SIN  

I was under the impression that she was being ferried back to SYD before returning to revenue service. It would make sense for her to come back into SYD a few days before returning to service, but I highly doubt she will be operating her first service out of SIN. It would screw up the rotations of other aircraft, and is the first longer range fight test planned...
 
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EK413
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Qantas A380 VH-OQA Nancy Bird QF arriving SYD 22/04

Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:27 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 48):
I was under the impression that she was being ferried back to SYD before returning to revenue service. It would make sense for her to come back into SYD a few days before returning to service, but I highly doubt she will be operating her first service out of SIN. It would screw up the rotations of other aircraft, and is the first longer range fight test planned...

 

Well let's just say she will complete the last leg of the LHR-SIN-SYD service which has since been dropped and renumbered QF002...

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!

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