LH648
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ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:38 am

ATR-72 flight Utair 120 from Tymen to Surgut crashed 40 km from Tyumen. 41 onboard. Casualties reported. No other info yet.
 
LH648
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:40 am

Contact lost 2 minutes after takeoff. The next departing aircraft reported debris on fire on the ground.

Now media reporting 43 on board.
 
Spacepope
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:03 am

Here's hoping for survivors...
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larshjort
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:03 am

Hopefully the pilots was able to make an emergency landing, but with wreckage on fire that's not very likely. I hope there will be many survivors.

/Lars
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LH648
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:12 am

Reported 9 survivors with serious injures. 11 confirmed dead. RIP.
 
syncmaster
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:08 am

More info here: http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/...ope/01reuters-russia-crash.html?hp

43 aboard, 12 survived (as of 12 AM EDT)
 
LH648
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:35 am

17 survived, 16 confirmed dead.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:02 am

More news here from CBS. Rescue workers at the scene said 12 people had survived and were being flown to a hospital by helicopter. The report said 16 bodies had been recovered so far.

Source: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-...crashes-in-siberia/?tag=re1.latest
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BreninTW
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:27 am

The BBC report.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17580917

From the footage shown there, I'm surprised anyone survived!

I have to wonder if icing wasn't a contributing factor...
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:30 am

RIP to all those who passed away and hope that the survivers have a speedy recovery.

Quoting BreninTW (Reply 8):
I have to wonder if icing wasn't a contributing factor...

Would not be surprised if it was, however its not time to speculate on causes just yet.
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:41 am

RIP to those who lost their lives and for a speedy recovery for the survivors



Quoting BreninTW (Reply 8):

Does anyone know the Reg of the aircraft involved? Or is it too early to say? From the video it looks like one of the -200's from the orange bit on the tail:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gleb Osokin - Russian AviaPhoto Team



the -500's dont seem to have this:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Senior

Please let me know... If you know this is the end of the world, Let me know... If you know the truth...
 
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BreninTW
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:55 am

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 10):
Does anyone know the Reg of the aircraft involved

AvHerald reports VP-BYZ


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Senior

 
PanAm788
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:58 am

BBC reporting that both pilots and both FAs passed away. Pilots were attempting an emergency landing. RIP  
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Btblue
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:01 am

How very sad... so for this year there have been no major accidents that I am aware of - this is the first?

Rest in peace those who perished.
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FlyingAY
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:02 am

Quoting BreninTW (Reply 11):
AvHerald reports VP-BYZ

This used to be Finnair's old ATR (OH-KRL).
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:15 am

Quoting BreninTW (Reply 11):
AvHerald reports VP-BYZ


Thanks

Quoting btblue (Reply 13):
How very sad... so for this year there have been no major accidents that I am aware of - this is the first?

As far as I know, this is the first major accident for the year, its very sad indeed.
Please let me know... If you know this is the end of the world, Let me know... If you know the truth...
 
na
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:22 am

Quoting btblue (Reply 13):

How very sad... so for this year there have been no major accidents that I am aware of - this is the first?

Right, so far 2012 has been the safest year in civil aviation history.
 
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teme82
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:41 am

Quoting flyingAY (Reply 14):
This used to be Finnair's old ATR (OH-KRL).

Oh dear... I've flown in that plane TMP-HEL route while it was in KarAir's fleet ...

R.I.P. to all who perished in this terrible accident!
Flying high and low
 
HELFAN
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:57 am

Quoting flyingAY (Reply 14):
This used to be Finnair's old ATR (OH-KRL).

Was it also one of Aero's planes? Then I must have flown with it too  Wow!
 
Treg
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:47 am

Quoting HELFAN (Reply 18):
Was it also one of Aero's planes? Then I must have flown with it too Wow!

Yes. ES-KRL.
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:01 pm

Very sad and RIP to all those who perished.

However, it raises the question about air safety in Russia. In the last year alone there have been three fatal accidents involving Russian aircraft:

- 2 April : UTAir ATR 72 - Tyumen
- 7 September: Yak 42 - Yaroslavl
- 20 June: RusAir TU134 - Petrozavodsk

Russia is a big country with lots of flights but the safety record is atrocious compared to other regions of the world. Is there any effective regulation of the industry?
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (738), OSL-CPH (320), CPH-LHR (321), LHR-HEL (359), HEL-LHR (359)
 
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:30 pm

"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
Cyanide72
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:00 pm

It's always tragic to hear whenever an aircraft goes down.

RIP to all those who perished and wishing a speedy recovery to the wounded.
 
Numero4
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:42 pm

R.I.P. to all who died in the crash, and a special thought to the crew who lost their lives trying to land the aircraft and probably saved pax doing it.
CYQB
 
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PW100
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:29 pm

Tragic crash. I just hope that is not related to this very recent AD:

http://wwwapps3.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur...showPdf=False&ovid=CF_CF-2012-12_0

A propeller shaft failure in flight would have disastrous results. If that is what happened to this UT Air ATR 72, that would probably mean immediate worldwide grounding of the complete PW100 fleet in the light of this AD. All ATR's All Dash-8 [except Q400], all F50's, all Embrear 120's, Do 328, ATP's etc.

Regards,
PW100
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yeelep
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:43 pm

As that AD covers 179 suspect prop shafts that may be in current use, I don't see how it could be the basis of the whole PW100 fleet being grounded.
 
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PW100
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:22 pm

While you are correct on the number, Pratt really has no idea on which airplanes these 179 Propshafts are installed . . . . believe me, it's a mess. You need to remove the prop to inspect the Propshaft flange for it's serial number.

Starting today, the AD allows for 30 days to verify the Propshaft serial number. If this crash was related to this AD, I expect the 30 day period to be withdrawn, thus in effect an immediate grounding until the Propshaft has been inspected.


Regards,
PW100

[Edited 2012-04-02 12:03:50]
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YVRLTN
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:27 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 20):
the safety record is atrocious compared to other regions of the world. Is there any effective regulation of the industry?

I dont want to disrespect the dead in any way, but this was not an "old Russian plane" (though it is not particularly new either) so will there now be knee jerk reactions banning ATR's or European aircraft or those with PWC engines?

Its way too early to speculate as this accident could have happened to this machine whoever operated it if there is any grounds to the AD speculation, but if not and it turns out to be an avoidable accident, surely questions should be concentrated on looking at the system in Russia rather than the mentallity of knee jerk bans just because of the aircrafts age or manufacturer as previously.
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agent99nzboi
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:29 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 20):

The ATR is a French built aircraft, not Russian.
 
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AirlineCritic
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:37 pm

We do not know what happened yet. Statistically, most accidents are due to human errors. There is no reason to speculate yet about technical problems or grounding the feel. Of course the issue covered by the AD could be the reason too, but we will see.
 
LXa332
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:03 am

Quoting PanAm788 (Reply 12):
BBC reporting that both pilots and both FAs passed away.

AV Herald is saying the first officer survived. The captain and both FAs are dead.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:41 am

Given it took off in cold weather, they'll have to check if the wings were properly de-iced before takeoff. If I remember correctly, an Simmons Airlines (American Airlines Express) ATR 72 crashed in 1994 because the mechanical de-icing "boots" didn't clear the ice off the wing correctly, and ATR has not completely solved the problem, since two other ATR's went down due to wing icing issues.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:03 am

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 31):
Given it took off in cold weather, they'll have to check if the wings were properly de-iced before takeoff

Exactly my thoughts - did it go through proper de-icing procedure given that the weather was snow showers and blowing snow at the time of the incident.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
AF1624
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:25 am

Obviously with the aircraft being an ATR (known for icing issues in the past), and with the flight taking place in very cold conditions, the odds of it being an icing problem are quite high.

Could MX be relevant on what is a relatively recent frame? Does anyone know the plane's MX history?
Cheers
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:19 am

Quoting agent99nzboi (Reply 28):

The ATR is a French built aircraft, not Russian.

I am aware of that. But it was operated by a Russian airline in a territory that has a pretty poor record when it comes to accidents.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (738), OSL-CPH (320), CPH-LHR (321), LHR-HEL (359), HEL-LHR (359)
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:23 am

Just read this on flightglobal:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...t-engines-were-functioning-370298/

This part might be of interest though:

Quote:
One local report, quoting the deputy director of Tyumen airport, states that the ATR crew opted against de-icing before departure.
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HAWK21M
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:27 am

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 31):
iven it took off in cold weather, they'll have to check if the wings were properly de-iced before takeoff.

Thats one area of Investigation considering the situation.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
RubberJungle
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:54 am

Excessive rolling can be a symptom of wing icing:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ke-off-crash-investigators-320577/
 
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Aesma
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:52 pm

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 35):
Just read this on flightglobal:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...t-engines-were-functioning-370298/

This part might be of interest though:

Quote:
One local report, quoting the deputy director of Tyumen airport, states that the ATR crew opted against de-icing before departure.

I'm guessing it was a short turn-around, maybe they assumed it was OK, didn't do the pre-flight walk-around ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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SXI899
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:19 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 38):
I'm guessing it was a short turn-around, maybe they assumed it was OK, didn't do the pre-flight walk-around ?

Based in the schedules, the aircraft had a nightstop after arriving from Surgut at UT119 around 2340L.

What with the weather conditions in the hours prior to departure, I'd almost guarantee that the wings had some form of contamination on them when the crew arrived at the aircraft that morning. Question is then what was done about it, and the only source I'm going to trust on that is the final report from MAK.

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aeroflop
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:15 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 20):
Is there any effective regulation of the industry?

Its not that the industry is not regulated well enough. It is mostly to do with the fact that there was a huge drought of prefessional pilots being trained after the collapse of the USSR. My father was a commercial pilot and he was trained for 5 years (state funded of course). He then moved onto an-2, then let-410, then an-24/26, tu-154 and then B767.

These days there are such HUGE shortages that airlines take whoever they can because there are 2 (I think) flight schools in Russia who supply professional pilots. The fact that the Air Law states that aircrew in Russian airlines must be Russian Citizens does not help either.

So pilots who graduate from flights schools are snapped up by airlines and those who speak ICAO english 4 or higher go straight onto international jets while those with lesser english knowledge end up of regional turboprops.

What i'm saying is that there is a HUGE and growing experience gap between the older "soviet" pilots and the new kids. From what I read on Pprune is that the aircraft was the only one NOT to be de-iced. The PiC maybe thought he could get away on-time and safely? Fatal mistake if that was the case.
 
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airbuseric
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:18 am

Icing is 99% sure the cause of this crash, got this info from a source today working for a a/c leasing company.

Anti-ice sytems on these older ATR72's are known to be too small coverage on the wings
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toltommy
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:30 am

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 41):

Icing is 99% sure the cause of this crash, got this info from a source today working for a a/c leasing company.

Anti-ice sytems on these older ATR72's are known to be too small coverage on the wings

Care to share your source? Without it, you've got nothing more than speculation.

The anti-ice systems could cover 100% of the wing. However, it is being reported that the captain chose not to deice. So no matter how effective the systems might be, it's gotta be started off with a clean wing.

Very sad, and it may turn out to have been avoidable. Hopefully there is a lesson to be learned. Palm 90 taught US carriers an important lesson. The wing must be clean to be safe.
 
EY460
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RE: ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia

Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:41 am

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 41):
Icing is 99% sure the cause of this crash, got this info from a source today working for a a/c leasing company.

Anti-ice sytems on these older ATR72's are known to be too small coverage on the wings

The aircraft crashed immediately after take off. How can you blame the de-icing system? If the wings were clean before take-off, there was no time for the ice to form again.

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