United Airline
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Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:20 am

With the UA-CO merger, UA no longer offers free alcohol onboard its transpacific/intra-asia economy class. Why? Will they bring this back?

They took this off back in 2008 and reinstated it back in late 2009.
 
Superfly
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:30 am

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
With the UA-CO merger, UA no longer offers free alcohol onboard its transpacific/intra-asia economy class. Why? Will they bring this back?

Are you sure about this?
Bring back the Concorde
 
DocGATTACA
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:49 am

I'm pretty sure it was only on the pre-merger Continental aircraft that there was a charge for alcohol. I was under the impression that this had now been rationalized and that alcohol is now free on all UA trans-Pac flights.

Anyway, I can report back tomorrow since I will be flying EWR-HKG-SIN and will definitely have a drink or two.
 
Superfly
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:54 am

Quoting DocGATTACA (Reply 2):
I'm pretty sure it was only on the pre-merger Continental aircraft that there was a charge for alcohol. I was under the impression that this had now been rationalized and that alcohol is now free on all UA trans-Pac flights.

I've flown United many times across the Pacific and there was always free booze.
I thought the only trans-Pacific carrier that charged for booze in coach was Delta.
Bring back the Concorde
 
panamair
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:57 am

Quoting DocGATTACA (Reply 2):
Continental aircraft that there was a charge for alcohol. I was under the impression that this had now been rationalized and that alcohol is now free on all UA trans-Pac flights.

The "new" United website states that there is a charge for alcohol now (i.e., following CO's Policy)

http://united.com/web/en-US/content/...avel/inflight/economy/default.aspx

However, it appears that in practice, sUA flights (e.g., SFO-HKG) are still offering free alcohol on trans-Pac, while sCO flights (e.g., EWR-HKG) are charging).

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
I thought the only trans-Pacific carrier that charged for booze in coach was Delta.

Delta has free beer, wine, and sake on all trans-Pac flights; cocktails and liquors however are US$7.
 
Superfly
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:21 am

Quoting panamair (Reply 4):
cocktails and liquors however are US$7.

What a shame.  
Quoting panamair (Reply 4):
The "new" United website states that there is a charge for alcohol now (i.e., following CO's Policy)

That doesn't surprise me. I never hear of mergers that benefits customers and employees.
Bring back the Concorde
 
AngMoh
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:33 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 4):
Delta has free beer, wine, and sake on all trans-Pac flights; cocktails and liquors however are US$7.


NW used to charge for all alcohol from about 2004 onward. Even before that their service was shit (a poor lady from China was yelled at by the 250 pound FA for having the audacity to ask for both a orange juice and a glass of wine as the same time - this was when they still served beer and wine for free - and she was told clearly that "it is company policy to only serve one drink per service...") I never flew them again. Stupid way to lose a customer...

Same for a colleague of mine: last time he came from BOS to SIN, he flew UA. He had one leg HKG-SIN on SQ and he was amazed that he had a proper meal and free drinks on just a 4 hour flight, but no decent service flying 14 hours ORD-HKG. Next month he is coming again but this time flying SQ/LH just because of food and drinks...
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max999
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:52 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 4):
Delta has free beer, wine, and sake on all trans-Pac flights; cocktails and liquors however are US$7.

I believe this Delta policy applies to all of their intercontinental flights globally.
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
hb88
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:56 pm

Paying for drinks? Good grief, no wonder hardly any US carriers can compete with the rest of the world in terms of service/quality in the cabin.

As for mergers, they're invariably a race to the bottom.
 
DocGATTACA
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:32 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 4):
The "new" United website states that there is a charge for alcohol now (i.e., following CO's Policy)

http://united.com/web/en-US/content/...avel/inflight/economy/default.aspx

However, it appears that in practice, sUA flights (e.g., SFO-HKG) are still offering free alcohol on trans-Pac, while sCO flights (e.g., EWR-HKG) are charging).

That's rather unfortunate. I thought they would be trying to improve their on-board offering. Little things like that do leave an impression.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:03 pm

Quoting max999 (Reply 7):
Quoting panamair (Reply 4):
Delta has free beer, wine, and sake on all trans-Pac flights; cocktails and liquors however are US$7.

I believe this Delta policy applies to all of their intercontinental flights globally.

On transatlantic routes, U.S. carriers are virtually the only ones that charge for any alcohoic drinks in Y class. Champagne is an exception but even that's free on AF. Air Berlin is the only significant European carrier I can thnk of that charges for alcoholic drinks in Y class on their U.S. routes. All alcoholic drinks (except Champagne) are also free on AC.
 
panamair
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:18 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
On transatlantic routes, U.S. carriers are virtually the only ones that charge for any alcohoic drinks in Y class. Champagne is an exception but even that's free on AF. Air Berlin is the only significant European carrier I can thnk of that charges for alcoholic drinks in Y class on their U.S. routes.

Finnair offers free beer and wine during mealtime on JFK and BKK flights in Y; all other times it has to be purchased. For the other long-haul destinations (PVG, PEK, NRT, KIX, ICN, etc.), beer and wine are free throughout, but other cocktails/liquors cost.

SAS is the other one that charges for alcohol in Y on long-haul: it is free during the pre-meal drink service and during the main meal; other times, it has to be purchased.

[Edited 2012-04-03 15:19:13]

[Edited 2012-04-03 15:19:54]
 
DavidYYC
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:59 am

Quoting panamair (Reply 11):
All alcoholic drinks (except Champagne) are also free on AC.

Sshhh! Dont give AC any ideas? Pretty soon they will "enhance" this, making us pay for this perk. Of course when it happens they will promote some aspect of it as an "enhancement", like better choice etc etc.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:02 am

Quoting hb88 (Reply 8):
Good grief, no wonder hardly any US carriers can compete with the rest of the world in terms of service/quality in the cabin.

Give it a couple years; it'll change for the other carriers too.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
joeljack
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:49 am

There is lots on this subject on Flyertalk.com. UA is still doing free alcohol across the pacific for old UA metal. For old Continental Metal, they do not serve free alcohol. This was a big factor in choosing PMUA metal over PMCO metal for my May trip to HKG. On a flight this long, I don't want to pay for alcohol or I'm going to fly somebody that provides it for free like NH!
 
United Airline
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:39 pm

Quoting joeljack (Reply 14):
There is lots on this subject on Flyertalk.com. UA is still doing free alcohol across the pacific for old UA metal. For old Continental Metal, they do not serve free alcohol. This was a big factor in choosing PMUA metal over PMCO metal for my May trip to HKG. On a flight this long, I don't want to pay for alcohol or I'm going to fly somebody that provides it for free like NH!

So what will happen at the ultimate end when both airlines fully integrate? Will they still provide free alcohol onboard transpacific/intra asian economy flights?
 
tommy767
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:48 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 4):

Why does PMCO cost money but PMUA free? It doesn't make any sense, they are officially one airline now.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
joeljack
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:56 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 15):
So what will happen at the ultimate end when both airlines fully integrate? Will they still provide free alcohol onboard transpacific/intra asian economy flights?

Million dollar question. UA experimented around with charging for alcohol a few years back and United stated that it hurt bookings because Asians expect free alcohol. They reversed their policy and brought back the free booze. Hopefully the new UA has enough common sense to keep it free.

What kills me is that it's one airline now and yet they haven't aligned their services yet!
 
United Airline
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:21 am

Quoting joeljack (Reply 17):
Million dollar question. UA experimented around with charging for alcohol a few years back and United stated that it hurt bookings because Asians expect free alcohol. They reversed their policy and brought back the free booze. Hopefully the new UA has enough common sense to keep it free.

EVERYONE expects free alcohol on long haul flights. And every airline provides free alcohol on long haul flights except US airlines.
 
BobbyPSP
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:09 pm

I'm more interested that United is not offering a consistent product. Yes, it takes time with a merger, however this is very easy to implement. Charge or don't charge.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:33 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 18):
EVERYONE expects free alcohol on long haul flights. And every airline provides free alcohol on long haul flights except US airlines.

That's because there's much more competition in the US. You'll get there soon enough don't you worry .
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
AngMoh
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:48 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):
That's because there's much more competition in the US. You'll get there soon enough don't you worry 

Because of competition, service levels are going up in Asia  
Something you probably can't comprehend....
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MaverickM11
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:18 pm

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 21):
Something you probably can't comprehend....

It's no where near the level of the US. There's still tons of regulation and government owneship/meddling that has yet to really free up the markets but it's getting there. SQ/CX profits are way down, TG/MH are reeling, SQ is starting Scoot, JL/NH/QF/JQ are starting umpteen LCCs throughout the region. Believe me, you'll get there. Asia is a good 5-10 years behind the EU and they're finally enjoying the benefits/horrors of deregulation.

[Edited 2012-04-05 09:24:11]
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
eastern747
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:33 pm

Well whether UA charges for drinks is meaningless. Just try and find a F/A to serve you. An hour after takeoff they seem to melt away until 30 minutes before landing. And that's in Business! Never again.
 
United Airline
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:05 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22):
SQ/CX profits are way down, TG/MH are reeling, SQ is starting Scoot, JL/NH/QF/JQ are starting umpteen LCCs throughout the region. Believe me, you'll get there. Asia is a good 5-10 years behind the EU and they're finally enjoying the benefits/horrors of deregulation

CX posted a record high net profit/revenue last year. SQ and TG are still doing very well. Perhaps US airlines should learn from SQ and CX on how to run a top airline

Asian airlines compete severely too
 
Viscount724
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:25 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 24):
SQ and TG are still doing very well.

TG is doing very well? They reported a net loss of over $300 million for the year 2011 (10.2 billion Thai Baht).
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:05 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 24):
Asian airlines compete severely too

Asian carriers benefit from much more state support and much less deregulation. There is no comparison, but the markets are freeing up.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 24):
Perhaps US airlines should learn from SQ and CX on how to run a top airline

Asia is likely to see only increases in competition, liberated markets, and costs, so while that once may have been true, EU and Asia carriers are going to look ever more toward US carriers to manage these growing challenges. And it's going to be *fantastic* to watch from the sidelines.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
penguins
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:48 am

I flew UA from SFO to SYD and got free booze. Does this count as TransPac though? Another question of mine is, I flew UA from MEL-SYD at 8am in the morning. If I had flown at 6pm would I have received free drinks, let alone drinks at all.
 
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Tugger
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:27 am

Anyone who wants/supports free alcohol must also support no bag fees. After all who is willing to pay extra for a ticket so someone else can drink for free?

If you want it you should pay for it as it is a significant expense for an airline and it will also be an excellent source of additional revenue.

Tugg
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United Airline
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:00 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 25):
TG is doing very well? They reported a net loss of over $300 million for the year 2011 (10.2 billion Thai Baht).

WOW how come?

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 26):
Asia is likely to see only increases in competition, liberated markets, and costs, so while that once may have been true, EU and Asia carriers are going to look ever more toward US carriers to manage these growing challenges. And it's going to be *fantastic* to watch from the sidelines.

I doubt SQ, CX, TG etc will charge for food/wine/drinks even in the long run.
 
michman
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:10 am

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 6):
NW used to charge for all alcohol from about 2004 onward

Not true. NW did not start charging for alcohol on trans-pacific flights until 2006. All alcohol remained free on NW trans-atlantic flights due to their JV agreement with KLM. After the merger, DL instituted the free beer/wine in coach policy (but charges for liquor).
 
michman
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:23 am

Quoting max999 (Reply 7):
I believe this Delta policy applies to all of their intercontinental flights globally.

Beer and wine are free in coach on Delta on international flights that are 6 hours or longer. The Economy Comfort pax get free liquor as well.
 
kfitz
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:49 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 28):
Anyone who wants/supports free alcohol must also support no bag fees. After all who is willing to pay extra for a ticket so someone else can drink for free? 

If you want it you should pay for it as it is a significant expense for an airline and it will also be an excellent source of additional revenue. 

Tugg

Oh really? So where does the unbundling stop and do we just admit a lot of it is quick talk from the company looking for a perfect line to spin cuts as "enhancements"? You know, for cuts that have a vauge amorphous relationship at best to the " price of a ticket"? It's a steep slope this one.
 
Avianca
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:57 am

Quoting michman (Reply 31):
Beer and wine are free in coach on Delta on international flights that are 6 hours or longer.

I had even free beer on a ATL-CCS run and thats under 6 hours...


a shame an airline can not even provide a free beer or wine on long flights...

here in southamerica its still common to get on short internatoinal flights or even on domestic flights, free Beer and some other booze!

Cheers
Avianca
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cmf
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:07 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 26):
Asia is likely to see only increases in competition, liberated markets, and costs, so while that once may have been true, EU and Asia carriers are going to look ever more toward US carriers to manage these growing challenges. And it's going to be *fantastic* to watch from the sidelines.

While competition is set to increase there is nothing stating they must go about it the same way as US.

Quoting tugger (Reply 28):
If you want it you should pay for it as it is a significant expense for an airline and it will also be an excellent source of additional revenue.

Passengers already pay for it. The question is if it is included in the ticket or charged on top. What will happen depends on if enough airlines start charging it separably and ticket price difference to those who don't.

You may look at hotels as an example where many US hotels now include breakfast and often even drinks in the early evening to attract customers. Including internet access is another. Look at how Starbucks opened up Internet access to everyone. Look at how many resorts and cruises include "unlimited" meals.

Point is that it is well established that nickel and dime-ing very often isn't providing optimal return.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
spacecadet
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:44 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 28):
If you want it you should pay for it as it is a significant expense for an airline and it will also be an excellent source of additional revenue.

And this is why fares on Asian carriers are typically more expensive. But guess what? People pay, because you get what you pay for. On the JFK-NRT route that I fly a couple times a year, the Japanese carriers always do well while the US carriers are constantly struggling. The Japanese carriers can fill a plane that's 80% business class and still manage to make money off economy class passengers even giving away free booze. The American carriers, by contrast, can't fill up planes on this route at any price, to the point that Northwest - which had a hub in Narita - had to withdraw from the route until they got bought by Delta. And it's because the service on the US carriers is so, so inferior.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
AngMoh
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:23 am

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 35):
Quoting tugger (Reply 28):
If you want it you should pay for it as it is a significant expense for an airline and it will also be an excellent source of additional revenue.

And this is why fares on Asian carriers are typically more expensive. But guess what? People pay, because you get what you pay for.

  

Airlines have lots of expenses but wine or beer is not a significant expense. A can of beer is probably 30 cents in bulk duty free. And if I drink a coke instead of beer, they save maybe 10 cents. The cost of a glass of wine is probably 10 -20 cents above the cost of a glass of orange juice (keep in mind that the glasses used are much smaller than standard wine glasses). The problem is that some idiot probably came up with a great calculation of how much extra revenue they would get selling beer instead of giving it away, but that idiot forgot (or deliberately left out) how much advertising and how much fare reduction is required to offset the reduction in customer satisfaction this creates.
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runzel
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:14 pm

It seems that the OP's intent was to North Pacific so maybe I'm drifting somewhat off-topic, but recent experience on SYD-LAX&;v.v. plus SYD-SFO&v.v. on UA leads me to think that UA is prepping us for payment for alcohol, or further restriction of services. To be told that I had already had a drink, and that I must wait another hour before additional service would be allowed; and not just this pax, several others in earshot similarly advised, and warned that other cabin crew had been informed of our temerity in seeking such accellerated service frequency.

It would be thought that being crammed into what must be the shortest seat-pitch, oldest seats and practically non-existent IFE, even on otherwise delightful 744s, UA would smarten up cabin services, rather than the latter.

Experiencing the deterioration in customer amenities in Y, it must be close to time to restrict flights in Y on UA to shorthaul only. Economy+ - when available - at circa USD150 per sector is no longer good value.

Has anyone else had similar experiences?

[Edited 2012-04-08 07:20:45]

[Edited 2012-04-08 07:23:26]
 
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hhslax2
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:58 pm

Quoting runzel (Reply 37):
To be told that I had already had a drink, and that I must wait another hour before additional service would be allowed;

I got told this on UA flight 3 years ago from IAD to SAN on a 3 class 763. The FA said that UA policy was one drink per hour. That was the only time I had ever heard/seen this policy. The FA also found out that you should not say that to a GS in J, as she was promptly moved back to the Y cabin by the purser. I was then given 2 drinks and a $250 voucher for my inconvenience.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:52 pm

Quoting runzel (Reply 37):
Has anyone else had similar experiences?

Not on UA, but on KLM flying AMS-LAX some years ago. After the meal service, liqueurs were served from full-sized bottles on a cart in Y. When the FA was heading back through the cabin to the galley to close up and store the cart, she declined every refill request with a response of "no, you've had enough for now."

Personally, I don't mind paying for a cocktail in Y. I don't drink much, so the price is nominal. Free beer and wine during meal services confirms a certain level of hospitality from an airline that doesn't cost them that much. It is usually positively received, which in turn builds goodwill.
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MaverickM11
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:40 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 29):
I doubt SQ, CX, TG etc will charge for food/wine/drinks even in the long run.

Perhaps not for longhaul. Those three carriers have a lot more leeway in terms of government support and weaker labor protections so cost cutting is not as fraught with tradeoffs.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 33):
here in southamerica its still common to get on short internatoinal flights or even on domestic flights, free Beer and some other booze!

South America has even less competition and more protection than most bits of Asia.

Quoting cmf (Reply 34):

While competition is set to increase there is nothing stating they must go about it the same way as US.

Unless they find some new way to increase revenue or lower costs that no one else has tried before, it's pretty much going to pan out the same way the US did and the EU is doing.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
LJ
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:02 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 40):
Unless they find some new way to increase revenue or lower costs that no one else has tried before, it's pretty much going to pan out the same way the US did and the EU is doing.

However no EU airline will start charging for alcohol in Y for long haul flights... It's becoming very clear that comeptition on Europe - Asia is between the European, Asian and Middle Eastern Airlines, where the Middle Eastern airlines have high service agains low prices as their unique selling point. Thus EU airlines can't reduce service in Y or risk losing the Y pax, which isn't always low yield as some Y class pax pay a lot of money for their flights. Thus, EU airlines have no choice but to offer descent service against competitive prices on long haul or else the Y pax will go to the Middle Eastern airlines.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 26):

Asia is likely to see only increases in competition, liberated markets, and costs, so while that once may have been true,

That means you assumes that Asia will liberate their markets. However, that's not a given (and not in the interest of many government officials).
 
cmf
Posts: 3120
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:22 pm

RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:33 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 40):
Unless they find some new way to increase revenue or lower costs that no one else has tried before, it's pretty much going to pan out the same way the US did and the EU is doing.

With all due respect put the focus on just revenue and cost pretty much summarize the problem with (typical) US business mentality.

Reality is that the actual cost and revenue are not important.

What is important is to have in demand product and price combination at cost and volume to make the company viable.

Reducing the formula to just two elements is a big part of the US, and increasingly EU, problem.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
panamair
Posts: 3774
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:56 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 41):
However no EU airline will start charging for alcohol in Y for long haul flights.

Both AY and SK already do have some sort of pay-for-alcohol system on their long-haul flights to Asia and the U.S. in Y (see my post #11 above) today...
 
rogercamel
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:41 am

RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:59 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 40):
Unless they find some new way to increase revenue or lower costs that no one else has tried before, it's pretty much going to pan out the same way the US did and the EU is doing.

My experience with intra-Asian flying is that the full service airlines are improving their service levels to justify the price difference, rather than reducing service to compete on price. (Both VN and MI have improved their food offering in the two years that I've been here).

As for me, I'll happily pay a little for a beer if it saves a lot on the ticket. The trouble is, it rarely does save that much on the ticket.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15455
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:07 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 41):
It's becoming very clear that comeptition on Europe - Asia is between the European, Asian and Middle Eastern Airlines, where the Middle Eastern airlines have high service agains low prices as their unique selling point.

US carriers have been competing with European/Asian/Latin/African carriers that have higher service standards and still manage to turn out profitable quarters on generally increasing international flying. Moreover, US/EU carriers offer something to their home populations that Asian/Middle Eastern carriers cannot: nonstop flights--something people do pay a premium for.

Quoting LJ (Reply 41):
That means you assumes that Asia will liberate their markets. However, that's not a given (and not in the interest of many government officials

Perhaps, although I think the cat is out of the bag with Air Asia expanding everywhere, and many Asian carriers trying strategies that failed 10-20 years ago in the US: carrier-within-a-carrier.

Quoting cmf (Reply 42):
What is important is to have in demand product and price combination at cost and volume to make the company viable.

Como? That's just a verbose way of saying it comes down to revenue and cost.

Quoting panamair (Reply 43):
Both AY and SK already do have some sort of pay-for-alcohol system on their long-haul flights to Asia and the U.S. in Y (see my post #11 above) today...

   *and* they're both total financial basket cases...

Quoting rogercamel (Reply 44):
My experience with intra-Asian flying is that the full service airlines are improving their service levels to justify the price difference, rather than reducing service to compete on price.

It's going to take a lot of trial and error, but they too will realize the growing middle class and really the majority of travelers aren't willing to pay extra for a TV dinner on a plane, just like everyone else on earth.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
AngMoh
Posts: 766
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:03 am

RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:14 pm

Quoting rogercamel (Reply 44):
As for me, I'll happily pay a little for a beer if it saves a lot on the ticket. The trouble is, it rarely does save that much on the ticket.

And that is the core of the issue. Transpacific tickets on US airlines are not cheap. They are cheaper, but not enough to offset the agony of an old hard product (especially in Y) with no service. This is especially true for flexible tickets where Asia airlines have the additional benefits of better refundability and rebooking terms. And especially if the company pays and not one's own pocket, you go for the Asian airline. And this is also true for Asia to Europe, but in this case the gap is a lot smaller.
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cmf
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RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:20 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 45):
Como? That's just a verbose way of saying it comes down to revenue and cost.

Not at all. It is that mentality that creates the mistake of thinking charging for every identifiable detail and bringing down cost to bare minimum is always the optimal solution.

If you must break it down to less variables it should be to; have the right product.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15455
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:41 am

Quoting cmf (Reply 47):
It is that mentality that creates the mistake of thinking charging for every identifiable detail and bringing down cost to bare minimum is always the optimal solution.

No, it simply means your revenues have to cover your costs, by whatever means necessary. As costs rise across the EU/Pacific carriers and revenues are pushed down by competition, something has to change, whether it's charging for extras or asking your pilots to volunteer for unpaid leave like SQ .
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Free Alcohol In UA's Transpac+intra-Asia Y Class?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:19 am

Quoting cmf (Reply 34):
Point is that it is well established that nickel and dime-ing very often isn't providing optimal return.

When I feel that a company is cutting corners and nickel & dime-ing me then I go the competition that provides better service.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 35):
And this is why fares on Asian carriers are typically more expensive. But guess what? People pay, because you get what you pay for. On the JFK-NRT route that I fly a couple times a year, the Japanese carriers always do well while the US carriers are constantly struggling. The Japanese carriers can fill a plane that's 80% business class and still manage to make money off economy class passengers even giving away free booze. The American carriers, by contrast, can't fill up planes on this route at any price, to the point that Northwest - which had a hub in Narita - had to withdraw from the route until they got bought by Delta. And it's because the service on the US carriers is so, so inferior.

Believe it or not but the Asian carriers are often the same price and in some cases, cheaper.
If you add the cost of luggage, drinks and God-forbid - have to make changes to your tickets, the cost of a US carrier will far exceed what the Asian carriers are charging.
If I'm paying almost $2000, flying 20 hours across the Pacific Ocean, it makes more sense to just pay the cost of one ticket and not worry about extra fees being tacked on.
It's sad to see US carriers behave like the telephone company or a bank with all of their extra hidden fees.

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 36):
Airlines have lots of expenses but wine or beer is not a significant expense. A can of beer is probably 30 cents in bulk duty free. And if I drink a coke instead of beer, they save maybe 10 cents. The cost of a glass of wine is probably 10 -20 cents above the cost of a glass of orange juice (keep in mind that the glasses used are much smaller than standard wine glasses). The problem is that some idiot probably came up with a great calculation of how much extra revenue they would get selling beer instead of giving it away, but that idiot forgot (or deliberately left out) how much advertising and how much fare reduction is required to offset the reduction in customer satisfaction this creates.

  

Quoting rogercamel (Reply 44):
My experience with intra-Asian flying is that the full service airlines are improving their service levels to justify the price difference, rather than reducing service to compete on price. (Both VN and MI have improved their food offering in the two years that I've been here).

You even get free meals on a 25 minute short hop from Chiang Mai to Pai and Mae Hong Song on a Nok Air Cessna 208 Caravan.

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 46):
And that is the core of the issue. Transpacific tickets on US airlines are not cheap. They are cheaper, but not enough to offset the agony of an old hard product (especially in Y) with no service.

I was shocked to see how much Delta charges for their flights to Asia. I had a friend of mine from LA visit me last year and he actually paid $200 more than what Thai Airways was charging. He had no idea he could have got a non-stop from LAX to BKK. He also had to pay extra for his luggage. The arrival & departure time in to BKK on Delta was terrible. They come in and leave under the cloak of darkness. The average fare on Thai is $2200 (although I've seen it for less) and he paid $2400 for his ticket. I told him to have me book his ticket next time.
He wanted to stay for an extra 3 days but the cost in fees would have been almost as much as a new ticket.


I once had to make changes to my flight on Philippines Airlines and I only had to pay $30 in fees.
A few years ago, I had to make changes to my flight on Aeroflot and didn't have to pay extra at all.
Bring back the Concorde

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