duncan16
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:11 pm

I hear pax and ANA FAs have issues with 787 dimmable window shades, and I am trying to find out if true. For some pax sleeping is difficult because the shades do not get dark enough. Another is that they are too slow to change from light to dark. Have others heard these or other issues? None of the videos I have seen are long enough to show it going from clear to as dark as it gets. If anyone is flying soon could you shoot a video which shows the full operation?
 
babybus
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:43 pm

It did sound like a daft idea. It must be like sunglasses rather than a blind.

Luck though, I thought you were going to say they found cracks in the blinds.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
tp1040
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:48 pm

I can imagine that this is true. Some people will whine about anything. Too slow, not dark enough LOL.
 
YOWVIEWER
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:51 pm

If you sleep with your eyes closed, it's gets a bit darker. Should solve most of the problem.
 
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garpd
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:01 pm

No matter where in the world you go, there will always be someone to moan about whatever product you name. You can't make everyone happy.

Still, I think the thread title is misleading. These are not issues but opinions.
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ikramerica
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:08 pm

My guess is that, like most technology, no matter how basic, there are people unable to master it...  
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
B6JFKH81
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:24 pm

If I recall correctly, these things were going to be a lot like the "Transition Lenses" glasses that people have (although the glasses react to sunlight, these obviously react to an electric switch). It isn't an instant thing, it takes a while to go from clear to dark. It's not like closing a blind, the electric system has to interact with the window pane and do its thing so it'll take a while to do. But based on the videos on YouTube, it looks like they do darken substantially:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9ghGITcaSU
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
ikramerica
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:40 pm

I can see how annoying those can be from the video. 1 min to transition? Lame. Makes quick peeks to see where you are a thing of the past.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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Stitch
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:41 pm

As the video shows, they do go very dark, but not opaque.

So the fears that the FAs could "black out" the cabin were always unfounded and based on some people's complaints, even in the darkest setting, the windows still let in enough light to make sleep for those people (I would guess when exposed directly to the sun during a turn or such).

[Edited 2012-04-03 11:54:34]
 
Gr8Circle
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:49 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 8):
I can see how annoying those can be from the video. 1 min to transition? Lame. Makes quick peeks to see where you are a thing of the past.

Hard to tell from a video on youtube, but here's my take on it......although the full transition takes close to a minute, if someone is being disturbed by the light outside, e.g. sun shining straight through your window, then by the 30 seconds point, the window seems to be dark enough to provide relief to the passenger seated there......full darkeing can go on for the next 30 seconds, but the immediate objective is achieved...

But yes, you're right about the quick peek....that seems to be more difficult....I do the quick peek out the window thing all the time whenever I fly   
 
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bikerthai
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:52 pm

I smell a money making opportunity.

At the airport gift shop, sell some tacky cut-outs to stick to the window and block out the light completely.

Although you'll probably go bankrupt in no time when folks can start making them for free using instructions on the internet.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
Rdh3e
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:03 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 8):
I can see how annoying those can be from the video. 1 min to transition? Lame. Makes quick peeks to see where you are a thing of the past.
Quoting gr8circle (Reply 10):
But yes, you're right about the quick peek....that seems to be more difficult....I do the quick peek out the window thing all the time whenever I fly   

I think the point is you can still see outside (during the day) when the window is 90% dimmed. At that point it is probably also dark enough to sleep. So in reality I think you'll be able to look out for a quick peek without even touching anything.
 
duncan16
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:13 pm

I've been doing online searching since my original post and learned some things. Here's a video that shows the 787 window from a direct angle. I guess I can see how it might be an issue for some in direct sunlight, although this video was not shot in sunlight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvCWxFKu-BQ

I'd love to see a video shot in direct sunlight.

I also found a similar window shade in use that seems better, if the following video is true: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWUnmq9nFgk

These techs look like the future to me - no more covering up views with a shade, or annoying pax with an open shade.
 
Rara
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:38 pm

Quoting tp1040 (Reply 2):
Some people will whine about anything. Too slow, not dark enough LOL.

Actually, I heard very little whining about traditional window blinds.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
CiC
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:44 pm

As long as the Dreamliner offers for those who LIKE FLYING all the flight the view out everything's all right...

All guys who just like to get moved from A to B sleeping all the time MUST take their eye-patches!!!

Hate all flights where I get forced to close the window shades, just that the paxes get asleep and the F/A get nothing to do then...
 
Viscount724
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:08 pm

Quoting gr8circle (Reply 10):
although the full transition takes close to a minute, if someone is being disturbed by the light outside, e.g. sun shining straight through your window, then by the 30 seconds point, the window seems to be dark enough to provide relief to the passenger seated there......full darkeing can go on for the next 30 seconds, but the immediate objective is achieved...

But with standard pull-down shades it only takes 2 seconds, not 30 seconds. It's a useless and potentially maintenance-intensive gimmick in my opinion, like "mood lighting".
 
tonystan
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:10 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 16):

But with standard pull-down shades it only takes 2 seconds, not 30 seconds. It's a useless and potentially maintenance-intensive gimmick in my opinion, like "mood lighting".

Couldnt agree more. What happens when even one window goes technical??? That whole area of the cabin will suffer. I know myself the very very rare occasion that a window blind jams it is a pain in the rear but I see that happening far less then an electronic device failing!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
jonnyclark
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:18 pm

A gimmick perhaps? Or do you think there might be some logic behind it. Letting in some light might play with the body clock slightly, perhaps it's beneficial in reducing jet lag? Much like mood lighting does (not just a gimmick!). Our brains do respond to light subconsciously and I'm sure there must be some kind of effect here?
Jonny, commercial pilot & founder of Thedesignair
 
ikramerica
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:18 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 16):

I agree w viscount. Too complicated. Should have four settings. Open 1/2 dim, day for night, and one darker. That would involve two LCD layers. One more opaque. So it's 00 10 01 11 in terms of activation. Default state of window should also be 1/2 dim in case of malfunction. This setup would have near instant response like all other existing tech of this kind.

F/A can still lock out full open and 1/2 dim when desired. And aircraft could even have smart tech to lock out full open for whatever side of aircraft happens to be pointing at sun at that moment.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
spacecadet
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:22 pm

Quoting garpd (Reply 4):
These are not issues but opinions.

And if enough passengers have that opinion, then that makes it an issue. The question is whether that's the case with the 787's shades. It seems to me like a solution in search of a problem, an answer to a question nobody asked, and a cure worse than the disease. In other words, I don't see the point. From an engineering perspective, it's stupid - you're taking a proven, simple system that works and replacing it with an unproven, technically complex system that doesn't work as well. It may work well *enough*, for some or even most, but it doesn't work as well as a simple shade.

Quoting CiC (Reply 15):
Hate all flights where I get forced to close the window shades, just that the paxes get asleep and the F/A get nothing to do then...

What flights are these because I've never been on one, and I fly long haul almost exclusively. I just returned from Japan flying NRT-JFK - they close the shades and dim the lights but I always get an exit row seat right next to the galley and the f/a's are *always* working. They never have "nothing to do".
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
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bikerthai
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:30 pm

Quoting tonystan (Reply 17):
What happens when even one window goes technical???

Tom had a very good synopsis on these windows in one of the other threads.

In case where one of the windows go "technical", I believe the window will stay transparent. The flight crew will have covers that will go over the window if they need to keep it dark.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 16):
It's a useless and potentially maintenance-intensive gimmick in my opinion, like "mood lighting".

Ah, but when working properly, the flight crew can "open" and shut the windows all at once instead of making an announcement or having to walk down the plane and manually open the shades themselves.

I would be curious about the electrical architecture of these windows. Would the "on/off and intensity" of these units be controlled at the master switch or at the individual windows? If it's at the window level, then I can see the probability of failure for these unit go up. But if it's at the master control panel, then there wouldn't be much at the window level to fail except maybe a loose wire.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
707lvr
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:42 pm

These windows will prove to be 1% convenient, 1% cool and 98% annoying as hell in the long run. I can't believe Boeing made such an dumb mistake. Imagine if instead they went with a switch which automatically raised and lowered your shade, only it took 30 seconds. People would go nuts, as they will eventually with these things. Prediction: if any are actually still in working order in a year, Boeing will switch the line back to shades and retrofit all the planes in service, at considerable expense.
 
jreuschl
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:46 pm

So what if I am a passenger on a flight that would like to look outside, but the FAs insist on the shades being closed? A recent flight from IST-ORD on TK I had to do this. This was a daytime flight. So the 787 is the perfect solution for that!
 
tdscanuck
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:47 pm

Quoting duncan16 (Thread starter):
For some pax sleeping is difficult because the shades do not get dark enough.

They're plenty dark at full tint; at least as good as full limosine tint. I you can't sleep under those light conditions you've got problems that the airline can't take care of.

Quoting duncan16 (Thread starter):
Another is that they are too slow to change from light to dark.

How fast does it need to be? People hate instant because the shock of going from dark to full bright (especially at altitude where the sun is *really* bright) is hard on the eyes.

Quoting duncan16 (Thread starter):
None of the videos I have seen are long enough to show it going from clear to as dark as it gets.

It's about 60 seconds full cycle, judging with my Mark I Mod 0 eyeball. To get noticeably dark is much faster, maybe 10s or less.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 8):
1 min to transition? Lame. Makes quick peeks to see where you are a thing of the past.

Quick peeks are instant because the window never goes opaque; that was part of the whole point. Regardless of tint level, you can always see out. And, if you're on the sunny side of the airplane, you can do it without the physiological equivalent of blasting a 1 million candlepower spotlight at your sleeping seatmate.

Quoting Rara (Reply 14):

Actually, I heard very little whining about traditional window blinds.

There's tons of whining, you're just not asking the right people. The interiors engineers hate them (complex, fragile, moving parts), the mechanics hate them (fragile, finicky, frequent replacement), the performance guys hate them (heavy), the flight attendants hate them (have to walk the whole cabin to close shades, have to harange passengers individually to open/close at the right times).

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 16):
But with standard pull-down shades it only takes 2 seconds, not 30 seconds. It's a useless and potentially maintenance-intensive gimmick in my opinion, like "mood lighting".

It's considerably *less* maintenance. It's all solid state, no moving parts. And, in a dark cabin, when you go from full opaque to direct sunlight in under 2s, you're not making anyone around you happy.

Quoting tonystan (Reply 17):
What happens when even one window goes technical???

It goes clear, the mechanic/flight attendant applies the tinted overlay designed for exactly this purpose. I do appreciate that people are sensitive to cabin issues but Boeing/Airbus aren't complete idiots, they do think of these things.

Quoting jonnyclark (Reply 18):
A gimmick perhaps? Or do you think there might be some logic behind it.

Quite a bit, actually.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 19):
I agree w viscount. Too complicated. Should have four settings.

It's got 5 now...is the jump from 4 to 5 really that unacceptable?

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 19):
Default state of window should also be 1/2 dim in case of malfunction.

That's a problem in an emergency; you want them to go clear if anything goes wrong.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 19):
This setup would have near instant response like all other existing tech of this kind.

There are multiple technologies; these windows are electrochromic, which doesn't have instant response.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 20):
It seems to me like a solution in search of a problem, an answer to a question nobody asked, and a cure worse than the disease. In other words, I don't see the point.

Lighter, less maintenance, better viewing experience for everyone while maintaining a sleepable cabin, central control for flight attendant efficiency.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 20):
From an engineering perspective, it's stupid - you're taking a proven, simple system that works and replacing it with an unproven, technically complex system that doesn't work as well.

Technically complex? It's a sheet of glass with a wire and a switch. It's almost guaranteed to have less parts than the sliding shade. And it's solid state
 
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garpd
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:06 pm

Quoting duncan16 (Thread starter):
I hear pax and ANA FAs have issues with 787 dimmable window shade

What are your sources? Can you verify them? Are these statements public knowledge? Can you link us?

Or are you just feeding us grapevine whispers?
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spacecadet
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Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:34 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 24):
Technically complex? It's a sheet of glass with a wire and a switch. It's almost guaranteed to have less parts than the sliding shade. And it's solid state

First, it's not just a sheet of glass with a wire and a switch. Go down to Radio Shack and buy those three items and tell me if what you end up with does what the 787's shades do. There's a lot more at work here than a sheet of glass, a wire and a switch.

With the shades, there was not more at work than a simple piece of plastic on a track that you could manually move up and down. And this system was refined - to the extent that it's possible to refine a piece of plastic on a track - over the past 100 years. Trains used shades like these before airplanes did. It's a system that works, and is still in use all over the world because it works.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 24):
better viewing experience for everyone while maintaining a sleepable cabin

Obviously not or this thread wouldn't exist.

The best you can say is "better viewing experience for some, worse for others". If it was a better viewing experience for "everyone", then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
GearDownFlaps30
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RE: Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:40 pm

Quoting YOWVIEWER (Reply 3):
If you sleep with your eyes closed, it's gets a bit darker. Should solve most of the problem.

That is a brillant one  ! If I had enough posts, I would have added you to my "RR list".

Cheers, Steven
Ciao, Steven
 
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bikerthai
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RE: Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:44 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 24):
The interiors engineers hate them (complex, fragile, moving parts),

If folk here can see the back side of a sidewall with a pull-down shade, they'll see how "simple" it is. 
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 24):

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 19):
This setup would have near instant response like all other existing tech of this kind.

There are multiple technologies; these windows are electrochromic, which doesn't have instant response.

I think everyone is so used to the instance response of an IPod/IPad now-a-days.

I can imagine the field day my son will have with the instance-on instance-off window. Talk about strobe light effect . . .   

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:47 pm

I like the advert just showing now on this thread for Blinds Supermarket. Buy a blind for only 9 GBP (and take it on board?)

Anyway, our airline is having a big push for less APU usage on the ground. One of the new rules is that the blinds must be closed on the ground when its sunny outside and the aircraft is empty.
Walking onto a B747 and the cabin crew have forgotten, it takes ages to close them. Now I can push a switch!! See there is an upside to this.
 
kdhurst380
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RE: Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:21 pm

I had a play with a demo at BA's last open day, it was quite underwhelming. It did go very dark, but it was incredibly slow.

Give me window shades any day.
 
yeogeo
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RE: Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:33 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 26):
If it was a better viewing experience for "everyone", then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Hold on... How many people on this thread have actually used these shades on a 787? Anyone?
I think its far more likely that people want to complain about this "issue" even without any first-hand experience.

yeo
One great use of words is to hide our thoughts. Voltaire
 
kdhurst380
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RE: Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:38 pm

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 31):
Hold on... How many people on this thread have actually used these shades on a 787? Anyone?
I think its far more likely that people want to complain about this "issue" even without any first-hand experience.

yeo

Whilst it wasn't on the aircraft itself, I've used the technology, and as I said in my post above, I wasn't impressed. They were slow, very slow in fact. It took around 20 seconds to go from fully light to total blackout.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:51 pm

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 31):

Hold on... How many people on this thread have actually used these shades on a 787? Anyone?

At least one.

Tom.
 
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ER757
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RE: Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:03 pm

Quoting 707lvr (Reply 22):
These windows will prove to be 1% convenient, 1% cool and 98% annoying as hell in the long run. I can't believe Boeing made such an dumb mistake. Imagine if instead they went with a switch which automatically raised and lowered your shade, only it took 30 seconds. People would go nuts, as they will eventually with these things. Prediction: if any are actually still in working order in a year, Boeing will switch the line back to shades and retrofit all the planes in service, at considerable expense.

Yes, and inventing the remote control for your TV was a waste too - after all, you can just get up and turn the knob to switch channels or lower the volume  
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 33):
Quoting yeogeo (Reply 31):

Hold on... How many people on this thread have actually used these shades on a 787? Anyone?

At least one.

Tom.

Or two  
 
yeogeo
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RE: Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:06 pm

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 31):
How many people on this thread have actually used these shades on a 787? Anyone?
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 33):
At least one.

Yourself, I gather? Yet, you're not whining about them   

yeo
One great use of words is to hide our thoughts. Voltaire
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:09 pm

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 35):
Yourself, I gather?

Yes.

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 35):
Yet, you're not whining about them

Absolutely not. I *LOVE* them. I've flown with them at night, in the day, long flights, short flights, bright sun, overcast, I've slept, I've been away while the rest of the cabin slept, the whole works...I'd never go back to shade if I had a choice.

Tom.
 
CM
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RE: Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:27 pm

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 31):
Hold on... How many people on this thread have actually used these shades on a 787? Anyone?

I've flown on the 787 many times, including flights exceeding 12 hours and on a demo flight full of airline commercial people who were evaluating the features. For all the dimmable window haters in the thread above, I can tell you the airline commercial and technical people, as well as cabin crews are very happy about this feature of the 787.

The system is more complex than mechanical shades, simply because it it fully integrated with the cabin system. In terms of mechanical complexity, there is no comparison - dimmable windows are far less complex. I love all the defnitive statements above about how these cannot be as reliable as a mechanical shade. In fact, they are. The dimmable windows have been tested ad nauseam, including abuse and RET testing, and are demonstrably more reliable than mechanical shades by a wide margin.

Instant tinting technologies are available, as are technologies to make a window go full opaque. It was a very deliberate design decision to not use these technologies. The 787 cabin at altitude is surprisingly dark. I've seen it with a full-on sunrise directly against the windows while flying south at FL410, and was quite amazed at the ability of the windows to deal with a full solar load. Getting the cabin dark enough to sleep is not an issue. The transition time is not an issue either, as you can still see outside, even at the darkest tint. I am like many above who frequently lift the shade to look out, even when it is a full dark cabin. There is no compulsion to do this on the 787, as you can see out without un-tinting the window.

In response to the question about cabin attendant controls, the windows can be controlled by the cabin crew at the full-airplane level, by zone, by aircraft side (left/right), by side of zone (business, left/right), or by seat number. Flight attendants love the system, especially in parts of the world where having the shades open at takeoff/landing is mandated by the regulator. This is also why the windows fail clear, it is an FAA requirement.

I suspect there are some who will never be able to accept this new technology, likely because it has the ability to take some control away from the individual passenger in order to benefit all passengers. Unfortunately for them, I suspect the technology is here to stay. Airbus has announced they will offer dimmable windows as an option on the A350, and you can bet they did not do this without pressure from the airlines telling them they need this in order to have a cabin which can compete with the 787.

By my count, three of us on this thread have flown the 787 and all of us feel the dimmable windows are at least as good, if not considerably better than mechanical shades. The dissenters have seen it on youtube  Yeah sure

[Edited 2012-04-03 17:09:50]
 
tjcab
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RE: Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:45 pm

Quoting duncan16 (Reply 13):
I also found a similar window shade in use that seems better, if the following video is true: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWUnm...9nFgk

iShades? LOL wouldn't e-shades have been a more appropriate name. Off topoc, will the 747-8 have these electonic shades?
 
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PM
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RE: Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:57 pm

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 31):
Hold on... How many people on this thread have actually used these shades on a 787? Anyone?

I have. I can't see what the fuss is about.
 
Reggaebird
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RE: Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:52 am

You can see the operation of the window at 4:39 in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IPowQe6Y6A
 
duncan16
Topic Author
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RE: Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:14 am

Here is another video, shot straight on at the window rather than an angle, which seems to make a difference. Is this the darkest it can get, or maybe the pax did not wait for it to finish before switching back - anyone know? Thanks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSIs1W8iVCM
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:31 am

I thank the four users of the shades for their input.

I'm going to discuss from the airline's point of view. Let's face it, how many people really open and close windows?

How many are more annoyed at a shade quickly opened and closed on the sunny side of the aircraft? I'd bet having some control is a plus.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 24):
How fast does it need to be? People hate instant because the shock of going from dark to full bright (especially at altitude where the sun is *really* bright) is hard on the eyes.

Don't forget, the older one is, the slower the eyes adapt. I would bet that the older customers are more of the revenue while it is younger customers who want to quickly open and close the window.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 24):
Lighter, less maintenance, better viewing experience for everyone while maintaining a sleepable cabin, central control for flight attendant efficiency.

Let's see... weight costs about $500/kg over the life of an aircraft, how many would pay for old school window shades? Anyone?

I like the idea of being able to partially undim a window for a view without opening fully that would blind my fellow passengers. 60 second cycles sound ok.

The central control is key... One could control the lighting pre-boarding, for sleep, to wake up passengers, etc.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 36):
I'd never go back to shade if I had a choice.

Thanks for the input.

Quoting CM (Reply 37):
I can tell you the airline commercial and technical people, as well as cabin crews are very happy about this feature of the 787.

I expect not having to fix jammed shades is a plus. I must see every third or fourth flight a passenger fighting with a broken window shade.

Quoting CM (Reply 37):
I suspect there are some who will never be able to accept this new technology, likely because it has the ability to take some control away from the individual passenger in order to benefit all passengers.

That could be the issue. Most likely the same people who drive their fellow passengers nuts and are not the high yield passengers...

Quoting Reggaebird (Reply 40):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IPow...e6Y6A

Loved the video. The Lexington minutemen greeting was a kick.

I'm amazed by the aerodynamics of the wing. That won't ever be achieved with a beer can wing.

The winwedow demonstration said it all "we won't have to have flight attendants going up and down the isle closing window shades." That is time the f/a is doing work passengers do not value. Instead, they could push a button and go down the isle handing out free earbuds...

I liked the overhead bins. Is the artificial lighting more impressive in person? I'm big on light theory effecting moods, alertness, and sleep. But it looked more like marketing than value added in the video.

I cannot wait for the type to truly get into mass production (not yet... not even close). Then again, how long have I been saying the same thing about the A380?   

Lightsaber
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ha763
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RE: Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:41 am

Quoting duncan16 (Reply 41):
Is this the darkest it can get, or maybe the pax did not wait for it to finish before switching back - anyone know?

As you can see by the neighboring windows, which he does shoot directly in front of when he walks forward 2 windows, the window gets a lot darker. Also, the video description says it takes 1:30-2 minutes to reach its darkest tint. In the video, he only waited about 1 minute before going back to clear.
 
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RE: Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:54 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 42):
Is the artificial lighting more impressive in person?

The lighting was very impressive in person. There was one configuration called dusk that could definitely relax one into sleep mode. Sorry that it wasn't reflected in the video. That said, I flew on an Emirates A380 a few years ago and their attempt at mood lighting was somewhat garish. I was glad when they turned it off. Here is a sample: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jikBPzpxsow
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:17 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 42):
I like the idea of being able to partially undim a window for a view without opening fully that would blind my fellow passengers.

You don't even need to undim it; at full tint you can still see the world outside. I actually works better when the whole cabin is fully tinted because your eyes get dark-adjusted. What will really screw you up (with shades or tint) is one fully-clear window in a dark cabin...the contrast is just too high.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 42):
Is the artificial lighting more impressive in person?

I think it's impressive as heck. But, like anything creative/artistic, it can be done well and it can be done badly.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 42):
I'm big on light theory effecting moods, alertness, and sleep.

Haven woken up to a mood lighting transition, I can tell you I greatly prefer it to going from pitch black to WHAM full fluorescent daylight. I've also been awake when a wakeup sequence came on while most of the cabin was asleep and been shocked at how quickly nothing more than the lighting shift gradually roused most of the cabin over the course of a few minutes. Done right, it's awesome.

The blue sky effect, which shows up in a lot of the marketing shots, is also even more impressive in person (and I think it looks pretty impressive in the pictures).

Tom.
 
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RE: Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:17 am

I guess my only fear about the dimmable window is the glass temperature. At night, when trying to sleep, I would frequently use the shades with or without pillow to rest my head. If there's no full isolation, it would not be as pleasant, since the surface would be pretty cold.
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:18 am

Maybe a bit off the electronic 787 shades but, as a kid I remember flying on 727's and other classics such as the DC-9 and 720 and the shades didn't close all the way. There was still an inch or two of window where light could enter the cabin.I even believed this to be the case on the two vintage Tower 747's I flew back in 1995.
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klkla
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RE: Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:50 am

The nerds that need to constantly look out their window shades and disrupt the peaceful experience other premium paying passengers are trying to experience (IE being able to watch their PTVs without glare from the outside ruining the video or just get some real sleep on their flat bed seats) on trans oceanic flights means that the nerds just need to accept the dimmed view of the outside world and get over it. Most people on trans-oceanic flights want to sleep and relax... nothing more... and not be bothered by the blaring rays of the sun at inappropriate moments.
 
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RE: Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:56 am

Quoting klkla (Reply 48):
The nerds that need to constantly look out their window shades

If you hadn't noticed, the only people who are whinging are those who complain in isn't dark enough or does get dark quickly enough. You can still see through the shades if you are sitting in a window seat.

Thing is, with this complaint that 30 seconds is too long to get dark, how long are you actually on the plane? On a ten or twelve hour flight an extra few seconds is really going to make that much difference?
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RE: Rumored 787 Window Shade Issues?

Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:34 am

i've done a trip on the 787 and it's utterly annoying indeed: the window NEVER gets to full darkness during daylight and it takes an INCREDIBLY long time do darken to its maximum.

Sure, on a flight from FRA to Japan, 30 seconds may seem like no big deal, but think about having the remote control of your IFE reacting so slowly it takes 30 seconds to respond to your imputs; compared to the duration of your movie, that may not seem like a big deal too, but if your remote at home would react that slowly, surely all of you would switch batteries, wouldn't you? And if you're on a plane you'll swich to the open seat next to yours to use that one's IFE?

The window shades on the 787 are WOW the first time, OKAY the second... and ANNOYING every time after that.

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