n92r03
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FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:50 pm

http://www2.tbo.com/news/offbeat/201...t-helps-deliver-boy-ove-ar-387875/

Props to the FA and the doctor who teamed to help the woman who gave birth.

Question... What nationality will the new born be?
 
sw733
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:53 pm

Quoting n92r03 (Thread starter):

Question... What nationality will the new born be?

The aircraft is US-registered, so the baby should have US citizenship. It doesn't say citizenship of either parent, so they may be privy to another citizenship as well (or to US citizenship by blood if at least one of the parents is a US citizen).
 
ikramerica
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:09 pm

If neither parent is US citizen this baby isn't either. If the couple were attempting to have an anchor baby they were a day late. Even then, it only bestows the baby the right to live in the USA, not the parents.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:10 pm

Quoting SW733 (Reply 1):
The aircraft is US-registered, so the baby should have US citizenship.

Not so certain unless one of the parents (or is it both parents?) has US citizenship.

Despite a common misconception to the contrary, birth on board a U.S.-flagged ship, airliner, or military vessel outside of the 12-nautical mile (22.2 km) limit is not considered to be a birth on U.S. territory, and the principle of jus soli thus does not apply.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_aboard_aircraft_and_ships

Citizenship issues for babies born on flights looks complicated.
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CRJ900
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:22 pm

Shouldn't the baby just automatically have the same nationality that its mother has? Why make it more complicated?
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ROSWELL41
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:35 pm

The nationality depends on the parents in this case. The infant won't be a U.S. citizen in this case unless one of the parents is as others said.
 
luv2fly
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:50 pm

Why was the passenger even allowed to fly.
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cargolex
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:57 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 6):
Why was the passenger even allowed to fly.

Hmmm...

Quote:
Katherine Oyedoh, the mom-to-be, stretched out and the contractions came more frequently. She told the flight crew she was due on April 15 but had been cleared by a doctor to make the March 23 Delta overseas flight. She was heading home to Fresno, Calif., to be with the baby's father, her fiancé.
 
Checo77
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:00 pm

The baby will automatically have the mothers citizenship. If the father is citizen of a third country (different that of the baby´s mother), the baby can have that citizenship too. Not sure about being born on a US plane, but in theory, the baby can have up to three citizenships.
The more interesting part is what will be in his/her birth certificate as "place of birth": International airspace? Delta Air Lines aircraft? The United States of America? The country they were currently overflying?

Adam
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ROSWELL41
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:05 pm

I believe the place of birth will be wherever the aircraft lands. FYI, nobody ever dies on an aircraft. The death certificate will state the place of death as where the aircraft lands and is met by EMS.
 
ikramerica
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:08 pm

Quoting cargolex (Reply 7):
Hmmm...

What moron doctor cleared an 8 month pregnant woman to fly across 8 time zones? Do you want your premee to be kept in ICU in another country?

It's still not clear if either is an American citizen, just that they live in Fresno.
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PHX787
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:21 pm

Quoting SW733 (Reply 1):
The aircraft is US-registered, so the baby should have US citizenship. It doesn't say citizenship of either parent, so they may be privy to another citizenship as well (or to US citizenship by blood if at least one of the parents is a US citizen).

If one of the parents is a citizen, and the birth occurs in a US-registered aircraft OR I BELIEVE an aircraft whose origin is in the US, then i'm pretty sure the person's gonna be a citizen. It's really complicated but I'm 99% sure if the parents are American then the baby will also be an American citizen.   

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 10):
What moron doctor cleared an 8 month pregnant woman to fly across 8 time zones? Do you want your premee to be kept in ICU in another country?

I think after 7.5 months preggers, they shouldn't be allowed to fly unless it's 100% certain that the kid will come in on time. OR if it's back to the person's home city.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 10):
It's still not clear if either is an American citizen, just that they live in Fresno.

ha!   
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RWA380
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:46 am

Ok, I admit up front that I saw this on the TV show "Bones" but they solve a crime that happened onboard a flight between the US and China, as the plane is on final, the cop guy arrests the person that committed the crime, then the plane lands seconds later, but because the plane had not landed yet into the foreign country, it was still considered US soil until the smoke came out from the tires.
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FLDude
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:50 am

It will really be ironic if this child grows up to be president of the USA. Not sure politics is welcome around here, so that's all I'm saying.
 
ikramerica
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:53 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 13):

Don't believe everything you see on tv.
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sq_ek_freak
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:47 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 2):
Even then, it only bestows the baby the right to live in the USA, not the parents.

If the child so chooses, I think its relatively straight forward for him/her to get the parents to get green cards right? Later in life, of course.
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mayor
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:33 pm

Quoting ROSWELL41 (Reply 9):
FYI, nobody ever dies on an aircraft.

Well, almost never........we had a guy die on a flight (before departure) going from SLC-CVG. The EMTs had the presence of mind to bring him out into the jetway and declared him dead, there......so the health department wouldn't impound the a/c.
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EXCOASA1982
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:48 pm

Did anyone watch the video? They state at the end that the Father is a US citizen and the Mother is Nigerian. Maybe that video wasn't uploaded when the article was first posted?
 
ikramerica
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:52 pm

Quoting EXCOASA1982 (Reply 17):

Interesting though that they are unmarried. The baby not being born on us soil can lead to complications should ice ask them to prove paternity...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
L1011TGU
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:01 pm

I assume that F/As receive training for emergency birthing?
 
jfk777
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:09 pm

which DL flight to Africa was it ? JNB to ATL ?
 
sw733
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:14 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 20):
which DL flight to Africa was it ? JNB to ATL ?

DL135, Accra to Atlanta
 
nws2002
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:06 pm

Quoting L1011TGU (Reply 19):
I assume that F/As receive training for emergency birthing?

Sort of, but not really. We receive basic training in CPR/First Aid. I know child birth was briefly covered in initial training, but it wasn't even up to the level of an EMT-Basic.
 
b6a322
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:35 pm

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 22):

Sort of, but not really. We receive basic training in CPR/First Aid. I know child birth was briefly covered in initial training, but it wasn't even up to the level of an EMT-Basic.

You basically receive CFR (certified first responder) training then? Somebody who can help until the EMT's or someone else of higher qualification arrives?

Also, as far as I'm aware, "place of birth" would be listed as the geographical coordinates of the plane at time of birth.
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RWA380
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:25 pm

Quoting B6A322 (Reply 23):
Also, as far as I'm aware, "place of birth" would be listed as the geographical coordinates of the plane at time of birth

Which passport do you get for middle of the Atlantic Ocean?  
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DocLightning
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:29 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 10):
What moron doctor cleared an 8 month pregnant woman to fly across 8 time zones? Do you want your premee to be kept in ICU in another country?

an 8mo gestation will not routinely need NICU care. However, if there is a complication then that might be necessary.

It was irresponsible of the physician AND the mother to get on a plane with less than four weeks to go. 30% of medically unsupervised primiparous (first baby) births result in the death of the infant, mother, or both. Childbirth is not to be taken lightly. We're not like dogs, who can just push out eight at a time without even getting out of breath.

When you deliver a baby, remember, deliver the leading shoulder first, then the lagging shoulder. In other words, you guide the head down, then up.
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ikramerica
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:41 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 25):
an 8mo gestation will not routinely need NICU care. However, if there is a complication then that might be necessary.

The reality is that the chances are quite high, all things considered, that the baby will need NICU. If for nothing else but precautions to make sure everything is functioning correctly. Last two friends I know who had 8 months premies had them in NICU for the first few days. My best friend's baby was less than 5 pounds at 8 months when she was born in late Feb.
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DocLightning
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:23 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 26):
The reality is that the chances are quite high, all things considered, that the baby will need NICU.

No it isn't.

I'm a pediatrician. I know a thing or two about this.

The thing is that the chances are irrelevant in any single case. For any single case it's either 0 or 100%.
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sw733
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:11 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 24):
Which passport do you get for middle of the Atlantic Ocean?

British Overseas Citizenship for Ascension Island  
 
ATTart
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:32 pm

Video

Susan Carnes, a veteran flight attendant, delivers a baby at 36,000 feet on a 12-hour flight from Africa to Atlanta..

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/...light-attendant-delivers-baby.wfla
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FATFlyer
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:56 pm

The Fresno newspaper has a long article today:
http://www.fresnobee.com/2012/04/04/...-bound-for-fresno-gives-birth.html

In regards to the parents' backgrounds and citizenships, some more info:

Quote:
"I'm very excited," said Idoni, who works as a patient-support technician in the surgery department at Children's Hospital Central California and is also a child-care worker. But he also confessed some nervousness that comes with first-time fatherhood.
.....
Idoni said because he is a naturalized U.S. citizen, his son also has U.S. citizenship. He and Oyedoh plan to marry, and she will start the process to become a U.S. citizen, he said. Oyedoh is a manager at her father's brewery in Nigeria; the couple first met two years ago when Idoni was on a visit.
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LOWS
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:09 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 24):
Which passport do you get for middle of the Atlantic Ocean?  

Atlantis, duh.
 
ikramerica
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:37 pm

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 30):

We shall see how much resistance ICE gives here. Unmarried, naturalized, and not born in USA. Not the best way to ensure a smooth process. Doesn't even sound like Mother has a long term USA visa...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
tonystan
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:04 pm

Quoting L1011TGU (Reply 19):
I assume that F/As receive training for emergency birthing?

Iv had to go through the childbirth training course 3 times with different carriers......each time that video we are made watch TRAUMATISES me! Its just not something a man is meant to see!!!!!
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DocLightning
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:38 pm

Quoting tonystan (Reply 33):

Iv had to go through the childbirth training course 3 times with different carriers......each time that video we are made watch TRAUMATISES me! Its just not something a man is meant to see!!!!!

People ask me what the most disgusting thing I've ever seen in medicine is. My answer is: "Childbirth. C-sections are grosser than vaginal deliveries, but not by much."

Pisses people off who are expecting stories about guts hanging out and such.
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tonystan
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:43 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 34):
Pisses people off who are expecting stories about guts hanging out and such.

LOL...They have clearly never seen afterbirth!!!!
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ikramerica
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:49 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 34):

Yep. This whole idea of getting the husband involved w the delivery was cruel revenge foisted on us by women.

Luckily my wife doesn't want me to watch and doesn't want a mirror or video. She just wants me to hold her hand.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
L1011Lover
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:19 pm

Quoting L1011TGU (Reply 19):
I assume that F/As receive training for emergency birthing?

Yes, they do! At least at the three different carriers I've been working at we did. It is covered in all the initial trainings and to some extend in the recurrents. However it is true that childbirth is not the number one issue in every annually recurrent first aid training. At my current airline childbirth was covered in recurrents about three years ago as per request by a great number of FA's. We fly a lot to Africa and India  
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 34):
People ask me what the most disgusting thing I've ever seen in medicine is. My answer is: "Childbirth. C-sections are grosser than vaginal deliveries, but not by much."

Pisses people off who are expecting stories about guts hanging out and such.

        

I'm also a registered nurse and I totally agree. The grossest, most disgusting and bloodiest thing I've ever seen: Ceasarean Sections (or C-sections) followed by vaginal deliveries. And Yes, it pisses some people off when they hear that. But it's true! ... LOL

Quoting B6A322 (Reply 23):
You basically receive CFR (certified first responder) training then? Somebody who can help until the EMT's or someone else of higher qualification arrives?

It basically is a CFR yes (not every modern FA can be a fully registered nurse or EMT), but the training it's a lot more intense with the background of knowing that the FA's "First Response" might last several hours. In most cases an EMT or physician can be found among passengers to get involved and work together with the FA's, but there will always be a slight chance that FA's are the only "first responders" available - it sometimes happens. So they receive quite some very intense first aid training.

What I find most interesting and also a little sad is that in 36 replies there wasn't a single "KUDOS to the FA"  
When it comes to FA bashing it doesn't take long for some users to jump right in on the thread and talk the whole FA profession down.

Now that a veteran FA has helped deliver a child in mid air you hear NOTHING! Not a single "well done"!

Of course we have those who'd say: "Well it's part of their job, and that's what they receive training for! So why pointing it out as something special" - Yes that's true. But funny enough I imagine those might be the exact same people who like to talk FA's down and calling them glorified waitresses and waiters who rarely encounter a situation in which they really need the intense safety, security, emergency and first aid training they receive.

THANK YOU Susan Carnes for doing a great job!

Best regards

L1011Lover
 
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DocLightning
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:54 pm

Quoting tonystan (Reply 35):
LOL...They have clearly never seen afterbirth!!!!

What? Your wife didn't eat hers? Grilled with onions and peppers? A bit of paprika?

It's really rich in iron!  
-Doc Lightning-

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CPH-R
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:09 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 32):
We shall see how much resistance ICE gives here. Unmarried, naturalized, and not born in USA. Not the best way to ensure a smooth process. Doesn't even sound like Mother has a long term USA visa...

If the father has been a citizen of the US for more than 5 years, there's not much to discuss, the child is a US citizen (and a natural born one at that, meet a potential future US president with one heck of a story to tell   )
 
ikramerica
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:00 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 39):

They could ask for proof of paternity if they wanted to. Otherwise it's just a foreign national who had a baby on a plane I've Africa who claims the father is American.

And please don't say I'm cynical. My wife wouldn't exist if her mom was faithful, nor is the man on her original birth certificate her real father. And she was born in another country, like this baby, though her mom and dad were/are American, as was the man on her bc. She has had lifelong issues w the government because of this. And she CAN NOT be president, nor can this child...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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RWA380
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:26 pm

Quoting LOWS (Reply 31):
Atlantis, duh

My bad, of course your right.... 
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DocLightning
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RE: FA Helps Pax Give Birth On DL Over Africa

Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:48 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 39):
(and a natural born one at that, meet a potential future US president with one heck of a story to tell   )


This lady would have a field day!
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