MAV88
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MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:06 pm

http://www.centreforaviation.com/ana...-north-america-traffic-flows-71021


It now appears to the HU PEK-BOS route will never really materialize, which is not too surprising. What is surprising is that MU has gotten approval for the route. How likely are they to actually start a PEK-BOS flight?
 
ASA
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:27 pm

I always thought HU is the more 'adventurous' of the Chinese carriers   If they haven't been able to utilize this authority ... not quite sure of MU. Which destinations does MU serve in the USA anyway?
 
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legacyins
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:12 pm

Quoting ASA (Reply 1):

MU only serves LAX. I believe they also served HNL as charter flights.
 
kaitak
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:41 pm

So, it'll be MU, not HU, to BOS. That'll be their second US base, whereas HU is still on its first base; what's the issue for HU - lack of aircraft, crews, or just lack of name recognition (people don't know who's HU)?
 
mogandoCI
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:10 pm

Quoting MAV88 (Thread starter):
It now appears to the HU PEK-BOS route will never really materialize, which is not too surprising. What is surprising is that MU has gotten approval for the route. How likely are they to actually start a PEK-BOS flight?

Not all that likely. I'm surprised they aren't planning PVG-BOS instead.

Everyone wants a piece of PEK - CA, CZ, HU. And now instead of enjoying their near monopoly at home, they're going into unchartered waters.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:20 pm

It is ironic that the airline just ditched the only plane in their arsenal that could connect to Boston...the 787. The A330 certainly can't (and won't). So they have an 'authority' and no plane to use for it.
 
LAXintl
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:30 pm

Having the authority and operating the flight are two very different things. All that happened here is the CAAC added Boston as authorizud market for MU. Airlines tend to hoard authorities used or not.

Wait till they ask the DOT for approval, and publish a schedule before getting too excited.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
airbazar
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:32 pm

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 5):
It is ironic that the airline just ditched the only plane in their arsenal that could connect to Boston...the 787. The A330 certainly can't (and won't). So they have an 'authority' and no plane to use for it.

It can with a stop   However, BOS-PEK is not much different than QF's AKL-LAX so it may be doable, and it's right over the pole so no head winds to contend with. PEK-BOS should be no problem.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:43 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 7):
It can with a stop   However, BOS-PEK is not much different than QF's AKL-LAX so it may be doable, and it's right over the pole so no head winds to contend with. PEK-BOS should be no problem.

Technically they *can* do it with their 340 fleet. Whether loads justify is a different issue.
 
cloud4000
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:50 pm

I'm surprised they would serve BOS before SFO, EWR, JFK, ORD, IAD, etc. You figure the demand and yields would be better from those cities. So those people who say this is for the sake of holding an authority, and not using it, are correct.
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aaway
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:36 pm

Quoting ASA (Reply 1):
Which destinations does MU serve in the USA anyway?
Quoting legacyins (Reply 2):
MU only serves LAX. I believe they also served HNL as charter flights

MU also serves JFK (PVG-JFK).
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
jfk777
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:49 pm

IS China Eastern using an A340-600 for teh route ?
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:49 pm

Quoting cloud4000 (Reply 9):
I'm surprised they would serve BOS before SFO, EWR, JFK, ORD, IAD, etc.

I'm not. BOS has MIT and just as many electronic companies as SFO. BOS, is I believe the real king in the US High Tech market research.
 
PVD757
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:56 pm

Add to that all the "old" manufacturing companies that keep their sales, marketing and HQ operations in New England but outsourced the actual manufacturing to places in China long ago, and I think there is decent demand from the region as a whole.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:09 am

Also, with a single smallish 787 daily (or even 3x/4x weekly) it's not as though a city-full of people need to be found each day to fill the thing.
 
MAV88
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:29 am

Quoting cloud4000 (Reply 9):
I'm surprised they would serve BOS before SFO, EWR, JFK, ORD, IAD, etc. You figure the demand and yields would be better from those cities. So those people who say this is for the sake of holding an authority, and not using it, are correct.

All of those markets already have multiple daily non-stop flights to Asia, especially SFO, JFK and EWR. I am not saying it will happen, just thought it was interesting the authority had changed hands.
 
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:35 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
I'm not. BOS has MIT and just as many electronic companies as SFO. BOS, is I believe the real king in the US High Tech market research.

MIT ... and then Harvard, BU, Tufts, UMass and over 20 well known (and about 50 in total) universities and liberal arts colleges within an hour or so from the city. Along with high tech and medical research leaders ... they also produce the leftest of the leftists I believe ...   

Jokes aside, the Route 128 Loop and Cambridge are indeed high tech research leaders. I don't know the loads between Boston and east Asia ... but if the graduate student/research demographic of this "College City" is any clue, it should be pretty high!  
 
tharanga
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:45 am

Quoting ASA (Reply 16):
but if the graduate student/research demographic of this "College City" is any clue, it should be pretty high!

the grad students won't be paying top dollar to visit home. they're generally on a pretty tight budget. for whatever that's worth.
 
Mcoov
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:46 am



Quoting ASA (Reply 16):
... but if the graduate student/research demographic of this "College City" is any clue, it should be pretty high!

High it is, and a BOS - China route of almost any kind is sure to at least get good support. Boston, I think, is ideal for this kind of route because it provides an easy connection to NYC via Amtrak, while avoiding the headaches of operating into JFK, EWR, etc., as well as having advantages of its own that have already been listed. The traffic generated should be enough to support the route with an A330-200.

[Edited 2012-04-04 18:47:10]
 
JBLUA320
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:57 am

I think MU would be a good fit, plus I'm not sure how much of a premium they would be charging just because the flight is nonstop. MU is very underpriced compared to other carriers exJFK to PVG and I believe MU is still the only nonstop. Having flown JFKPVG on their A346, though, they could stand to upgrade the product a little bit! I found them to be a very solid domestic carrier on 4 different intra-China flights, but woof those trans-pac flights were... forgettable to say the least.

-JBLU
 
yeogeo
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:37 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 7):
BOS-PEK is not much different than QF's AKL-LAX [332 flight] so it may be doable, and it's right over the pole so no head winds to contend with. PEK-BOS should be no problem.

Actually, quite a problem! 200nm more than the current longest flight for a 332, in the absolute upper range of the aircraft, would be quite a feat!

Quoting jblua320 (Reply 19):
I believe MU is still the only nonstop [PVG-JFK].

From JFK, yes. From the New York City area, no, as UA flies daily with a 77E from EWR.

World's Longest Flights 13 April Update (by BNAOWB Apr 4 2012 in Aviation Polls)

6424nm PVGº-JFK China Eastern ˇ 346x7
6416nm EWR-PVG United 77Ex7

yeo
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laca773
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:48 am

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 8):

Technically they *can* do it with their 340 fleet. Whether loads justify is a different issue.

I don't see MU flying BOS with a A34X. Too much capacity to start, at least. If they do start this route, I think we'll see them fly it with a much more economical, and smaller 787.

Quoting jblua320 (Reply 19):
I think MU would be a good fit, plus I'm not sure how much of a premium they would be charging just because the flight is nonstop. MU is very underpriced compared to other carriers exJFK to PVG and I believe MU is still the only nonstop. Having flown JFKPVG on their A346, though, they could stand to upgrade the product a little bit! I found them to be a very solid domestic carrier on 4 different intra-China flights, but woof those trans-pac flights were... forgettable to say the least.

Their soft and hard products are pretty dated and horrible from what I understand. I do believe they have been trying to upgrade the catering in all cabins, but am not sure this has happened or yet to be started.
 
BOStonsox
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:40 am

This is one route I want to see, regardless of carrier. There is a lot of student traffic coming from China to the universities in New England.
2013 World Series Champions!
 
something
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:43 am

Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
(people don't know who's HU)?

How long did you work on that?
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
hz747300
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:50 am

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 22):

This is one route I want to see, regardless of carrier. There is a lot of student traffic coming from China to the universities in New England.

And they pay cash too! But the problem with student traffic is that it is not constant year round.

For this route, I would say you could probably pay for it by charging Chinese based investment bankers and government officials business class to fly to Boston to meet with the hundreds of asset managers who are seeking to invest abroad to get better returns than they currently do in the US market.
Keep on truckin'...
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:00 pm

BOS-PEK is about 5850 nm, and goes almost directly over the North Pole, according to GCM, about a 13 hour flight.

BOS-PEK%0D%0A&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=nm&PATH-MINIMUM=&SPEED-GROUND=450&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=" target="_blank">http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=B...E=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=

Maybe starting out with a B-787 is a good idea, then if traffic warrents it, go to the A-340/B-777, B-747, or even later to an A-380.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:00 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 25):
Maybe starting out with a B-787 is a good idea, then if traffic warrents it, go to the A-340/B-777, B-747, or even later to an A-380.

380 is definitely a pipe dream. All those colleges around BOS aren't helping because students aren't exactly the ideal pax mix. A low J really high density Y (3-3-3 on 787 or 3-4-3 on 777) is probably the way to go.
 
airbazar
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:26 pm

Quoting cloud4000 (Reply 9):
I'm surprised they would serve BOS before SFO, EWR, JFK, ORD, IAD, etc. You figure the demand and yields would be better from those cities. So those people who say this is for the sake of holding an authority, and not using it, are correct.

No direct cmpetition at BOS.

Quoting tharanga (Reply 17):
the grad students won't be paying top dollar to visit home. they're generally on a pretty tight budget. for whatever that's worth.

They're not American studens. They're Chinese students and their government pays for it.

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 20):
Actually, quite a problem! 200nm more than the current longest flight for a 332, in the absolute upper range of the aircraft, would be quite a feat!

The current longest flight (LAX-AKL) faces strong winds. No such thing on a polar route. It would still operate with a penalty without a tech stop, no doubt.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 21):
I don't see MU flying BOS with a A34X.

An A342 may not be all that bad. Yes, it's a lot of seats but they could easily make up for the low LF, in cargo.

Quoting ASA (Reply 16):
MIT ... and then Harvard, BU, Tufts, UMass and over 20 well known (and about 50 in total) universities and liberal arts colleges within an hour or so from the city. Along with high tech and medical research leaders ... they also produce the leftest of the leftists I believe ...

Hey, low unemployment and high paying jobs, can't complain about that  
 
mogandoCI
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:33 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 27):
No direct cmpetition at BOS.

If "direct competition" just means PEK-BOS, then yes.

But if we're broadening the scope to BOS - Northeast Asia, then there's soon going to be JL BOS-NRT.
 
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legacyins
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:10 pm

Problem is, they just cancelled their 787 order and do not operate any type of 777. Unlikely they will bring in a new type of aircraft for this proposed flight. Furthermore, no DOT approval, only CAAC. Definitely not starting in June.

IMO, this is a non starter.
 
ORDJOE
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:08 pm

Quoting tharanga (Reply 17):
he grad students won't be paying top dollar to visit home. they're generally on a pretty tight budget. for whatever that's worth.

I will agree grad students will not be flying F or J, but the tech and finance companies in and around boston will, Harvard MIT and these other big schools do a lot of dealings with other companies (schools liscense and sell their intellectual property to the private sector) I think this could be a great route to try, no competition and a healthy mix of pax to fill the Y and premium cabins. Additionally the sheer amount wealthy east coast families in and around BOS, this could be a great money maker.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:39 pm

Quoting ORDJOE (Reply 30):
I will agree grad students will not be flying F or J, but the tech and finance companies in and around boston will, Harvard MIT and these other big schools do a lot of dealings with other companies (schools liscense and sell their intellectual property to the private sector) I think this could be a great route to try, no competition and a healthy mix of pax to fill the Y and premium cabins. Additionally the sheer amount wealthy east coast families in and around BOS, this could be a great money maker.

MU is not exactly the quality-inspiring brand that tech and finance firms want to put their employees on. Unless they're bound for PEK only, there are plenty of 1-stop options to go around, via both west coast and Europe.

Everyone will definitely wait and see how JL does before flooding the market with more supply than actual demand.
 
yeogeo
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:18 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 7):
PEK-BOS should be no problem [with a A-332].
Quoting yeogeo (Reply 20):
Actually, quite a problem! 200nm more than the current longest flight for a 332, in the absolute upper range of the aircraft, would be quite a feat!
Quoting airbazar (Reply 27):
The current longest flight (LAX-AKL) faces strong winds.

I don't think your information is correct.

To quote Tdan from:
KE To Launch ICN-NBO (by KFlyer Jan 31 2012 in Civil Aviation)

"IIRC, year-round winds averaged 5-7mph on LAX-AKL (that is into the wind LAX->AKL and with the wind AKL->LAX) with a very low standard deviation..."

So its unrealistic to expect a 332 on PEK-BOS, a full 200nm further than the current record holder for a 332 & a route which enjoys a rather light wind challenge.

yeo
One great use of words is to hide our thoughts. Voltaire
 
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chrisnh
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:55 pm

Aren't there any A340-500s sitting around idle that the airline could pick up? I know not many were produced, but are they all in use?
 
MAV88
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RE: MU Gets PEK-BOS Authority From HU

Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:51 am

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 31):
MU is not exactly the quality-inspiring brand that tech and finance firms want to put their employees on. Unless they're bound for PEK only, there are plenty of 1-stop options to go around, via both west coast and Europe.

Everyone will definitely wait and see how JL does before flooding the market with more supply than actual demand.

I agree. Hopefully JL does well on NRT-BOS. Does anyone know how advanced bookings look?

I don't think BOS will get another Asian carrier before 2014. I just thought it was interesting that the HU service never materialized and that MU picked up the authority.

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