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Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:50 am

Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX ever return? Perhaps when they recieve/order more A380s?
 
UAL777UK
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:56 am

I cannot see the point of bring back LHR - HKG when you have two OW carriers already on the route. I never understoon why they started it in the first place.

Cannot say too much about the other routes save for the fact that I can never see QF placing a A380 on LAX - AKL thats way too much metal for them on that route.
 
757ops
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:10 am

LHR-LAX on QF would be a good move IMHO as it'll not only link to their other services but it will also give them a RTW service LHR-SIN-SYD-LAX-LHR
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:15 am

Quoting 757ops (Reply 2):
LHR-LAX on QF would be a good move IMHO

Why go up against their two strongest allies in OW, AA and BA ?
 
anstar
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:23 am

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 1):
annot say too much about the other routes save for the fact that I can never see QF placing a A380 on LAX - AKL thats way too much metal for them on that route.

I thought QF were ending their AKL-LAX route completely.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:26 am

Quoting anstar (Reply 4):
I thought QF were ending their AKL-LAX route completely.

They are, from next month... although I suspect that Deathstar ( ooops, I mean Jetstar) will eventually take over the route with QF codesharing on them.
 
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EK413
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:43 am

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
Perhaps when they recieve/order more A380s?

QF have dropped the routes as they no operated profitable...

Probably with the B787's we might see the BKK-LHR reinstated but that's a big 'maybe'...

EK413
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eta unknown
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:08 am

Quoting 757ops (Reply 2):
LHR-LAX on QF would be a good move IMHO as it'll not only link to their other services but it will also give them a RTW service LHR-SIN-SYD-LAX-LHR

Rumour has it NZ is having a bit of trouble on their LAX-LHR flights and they've been flying it for ages.
Linking services/round the world- who cares- those days are l o n g gone- a route has to be profitable on its own now.
 
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:43 am

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX ever return? Perhaps when they recieve/order more A380s?

Doubtful, they are not necessary or important routes, that don't give any strength or advantage to their network. Makes much more sense to codeshare with their one world partners on these routes, with the exception of AKL-LAX which as some have stated will likely return as a JQ service.

There are many other QF routes/destinations that we will see return, which would be far more viable such as SYD-SFO, MEL/PER-NRT, PER-JNB, ADL-HKG, SYD-YVR, SIN-FCO/CDG/ATH...
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qf002
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:13 pm

I don't see any of these flights returning... QF's strategy has fundamentally changed, and these routes don't fit their new network at all...

Future expansion into Europe will be hubbed out of SIN. Rather than adding more LHR service, which can be far more effectively added by BA, QF will focus on the continent (CDG, BER etc), which will be a big boost to the JBA. JQ might also be involved to FCO and other more touristy cities.

Future growth in NZ will be via JQ. The market there simply cannot support multiple premium carriers (they can't even sustain domestic J class), but there is money to be made out of the price sensitive end of the market... JQ already runs AKL-SIN; AKL-LAX, AKL-NRT and maybe one or two ther destinations would be strong additions IMO.

The only other route they've cut recenty is BOM, which I expect to see back down the track, either via RedQ or as a 787 flight from SYD or (preferably) MEL.
 
rogercamel
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:31 pm

I can't see it.
It makes more sense to feed all LHR passengers through SIN which has better connections from Australia. IMHO they'd be better off adding flights to other major cities in Europe from SIN than looking to re-start routes they've chopped, (and are covered by other QF routes through SIN or OW partners.)
 
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vhqpa
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:55 pm

As for BKK/HKG-LHR it just doesn't make sense to have that many flights to Europe anymore. Given the competitive nature of the route I can't imagine the yields would be too good not to mention it ties up an aircraft keep in mind it takes three aircraft for a single daily Australia-Europe flight. They're far better off using the JSA to take their passengers to Asia where it takes just the one aircraft for a daily flight and let BA take over.

The big problem is soon they will have 20 odd A380 aircraft which is way too much capacity and it's not as if they can wave a wand and they'll disappear and get their money back. However you need to remember when Qantas ordered the "A3XX" in November 2000. Things were different so you can't blame them. Hypothetically if they could foresee certain events from 2001-2011 (which is impossible) they probably would've been better off not ordering the A380 and settled for a 73H/789/359 fleet for Mainline.

But the reality of the situation is those A380's are here to stay whether they want them or not so as far as Europe goes they're best putting the A380's on with less frequencies and routings than the 747's they're replacing so not to add too much capacity and at the same time adding frequencies from MEL/BNE/PER/ADL to BKK/HKG/PVG (The 787-8 would come in handy for these sort of flights) And then promote connections onto BA and other Oneworld flights to London and Europe.

[Edited 2012-04-10 06:55:49]
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EK413
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:04 pm

Quoting vhqpa (Reply 11):

AJ has waved the magic wand and has deferred the remaining 6 A380 frames...

EK413
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jumpjets
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:44 pm

Maybe QF could transfer some of its A380 slots to its OW allies IAG - they have common engines with the forthcoming BA A380s after all - and IAG could use them to create a sub-fleet of A380s for IB who I am sure could use a small number on their high density routes eg to EZE, GIG,GRU. I doubt IB would have bought the A380 as a stand alone airline but combined with the BA fleet the financials might well be more feasible.
 
LondonCity
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:56 pm

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 7):
Rumour has it NZ is having a bit of trouble on their LAX-LHR flights

It's not a rumour, it's a fact. NZ is losing about NZD 1 million a week on its Auckland-London flights (which include LAX-LHR)


http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/6308001/Air-New-Zealand-keeps-London-run
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:20 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 3):
Why go up against their two strongest allies in OW, AA and BA ?

True, but I've always found this to be more of an open-ended question than one might think: over-reliance on this strategy, through leveraging partnerships/Join Services Agreements rather than continue flying on their own metal, has pigeon-holed them to such a degree that they've coughed up market share to numerous competitors, and will have a VERY difficult time recouping that share anytime soon.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 5):
They are, from next month... although I suspect that Deathstar ( ooops, I mean Jetstar) will eventually take over the route with QF codesharing on them.

Well, it's really the best they can do right now....

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 7):
Rumour has it NZ is having a bit of trouble on their LAX-LHR flights and they've been flying it for ages.
Linking services/round the world- who cares- those days are l o n g gone- a route has to be profitable on its own now.

Sad, but true.
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penguins
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:20 pm

[quote=United Airline,reply=0]Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX ever return? Perhaps when they recieve/order more A380s?
The LAX-AKL route has been steadly reduced from a 744 to a 743 to a A332 and is now being shut down, so I definatley don't see an A380 on that route
 
qf002
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:30 pm

Quoting vhqpa (Reply 11):
The big problem is soon they will have 20 odd A380 aircraft which is way too much capacity

I disagree. QF still makes good money on Pacific routes, and the A380 has a great deal of potential for high volume flights to Asia.

Daily A380's from SYD/MEL/BNE to LAX already accounts for 6-8 of these aircraft (looking down the track to later this decade here), then there's also SCL and JNB which will require quads to remain viable. And I think QF will retain a presence in LHR at least, which will consume at least 3 frames, if not 6.

Ripping F out of a few aircraft and replacing it with 100 Y seats would give QF a very attractive aircraft for high volume (ie 550 seat) flights to HKG, NRT and potentially China (if they get their foot in the door quickly) down the track. The CASM of these flights would allow QF to compete better against the Asian airlines on price, which is really the reason they're loosing out now.

The 787 then serves to supplement services... QF needs this VLA capacity to make many of their flights work, flying 2 789's where 1 A380 can fly just pushes costs up and would make some flights unviable. I don't think we will see any more orders for A380's, but I can see the ones they are getting being out to good use...
 
runway23
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:53 pm

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 14):
It's not a rumour, it's a fact. NZ is losing about NZD 1 million a week on its Auckland-London flights (which include LAX-LHR)

Suggest you take a second read of the article you quoted. In fact NZ are losing NZD 1 million on their entire longhaul network, rather than just to London.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:00 pm

I wouldn't be totally shocked if QF took advantage of AA's lower costs and it's ATI, and AA operated LAXAKL in the future with its own metal.
a.
 
Sydscott
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:58 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):
AA operated LAXAKL in the future with its own metal.

How about DFW-AKL to compete against the UA IAH-AKL?

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
AKL-LAX

Will return on Jetstar at some point in future. (No doubt on a 787)

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
HKG-LHR

The Australian Government, on behalf of Qantas, asked for additional beyond rights through Hong Kong into Europe as part of bilateral negotiations last year. They wouldn't have asked for that at QF's insistence unless QF has an idea about using them. Will HKG-LHR return? It might on a 787 but we'll just have to see what the QF mainline strategy for China is.

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
BKK-LHR

I doubt this one is returning. With BKK only being served with a daily A330 from SYD and JQ from MEL there isn't the feed here for it to return. I'd think they would add a 3rd daily SIN-LHR 787 before they would add back BKK.
 
Gemuser
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:19 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):
I wouldn't be totally shocked if QF took advantage of AA's lower costs and it's ATI, and AA operated LAXAKL in the future with its own metal.

For once I actually agree with you  Wow!
To bring AKL-LAX within the JBA would require NZL approval. I have no idea if there would be any opposition to this within NZL.

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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:42 am

Quoting gemuser (Reply 21):
To bring AKL-LAX within the JBA would require NZL approval. I have no idea if there would be any opposition to this within NZL.

Since NZ currently has a monopoly on the route I doubt there would be opposition to it.
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:07 am

I can see AKL-LAX returning once QF has about 6 787s. The 787 is the right size for QF (since it doesn't have much feed in AKL -oz traffic goes direct these days). It will be more efficient than the A332 and have more payload ability for cargo. This will make a big difference and of course JFK can then go back to a smaller aircraft rather than a 744. Also QF has lower crew costs than NZ on this route due to its Jetconnect AKL base.
I cannot see BKK-LHR ever returning, I was disappointed about HKG-LHR going however. I think the timing of the flights was a mistake... Should have been an evening departure from HKG as that would have been better for all passengers but particularly business passengers.

[Edited 2012-04-10 21:12:14]
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United Airline
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:54 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 23):
I was disappointed about HKG-LHR going however. I think the timing of the flights was a mistake... Should have been an evening departure from HKG as that would have been better for all passengers but particularly business passengers.

It was. Why did they change it to morning departure?
 
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qfvhoqa
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:12 am

It's a shame HKG-LHR is gone, as i find HKG a better place to stopover than SIN. But with the heavy oneworld presence it was unnecessary for QF to fly on its own metal.

I don't see either LHR frequency coming back. Any expansion in Europe would likely be SIN-CDG or at a stretch SIN-BER. I think eventually the A380 will be on the FRA route to compete with LH & SQ.

AKL-LAX seems like a good JQ route as others have said, it could compete with UA for the bottom of the Y market.
 
Gemuser
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:46 am

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 25):
I don't see either LHR frequency coming back.

I and QF , I believe, disagree with you. If they didn't anticipate the frequencies coming back, in due course why keep the LHR slots, which they have "parked" with BA?
I just said "frequencies" not BKK/HKG -LHR services.

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qf002
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:03 am

Quoting gemuser (Reply 26):
I and QF , I believe, disagree with you. If they didn't anticipate the frequencies coming back, in due course why keep the LHR slots, which they have "parked" with BA?

LHR slots can be seen as an investment. Why sell them for $100 now (when you don't need the cash anyway) when they'll be worth $200 in 5 years time, when you're taking delivery of a large order of 787's and do need the cash.

In any case, if my understanding is correct, there's no guarantee that BA would have received the slots if QF had sold them. Another airline (ie EK, SQ etc) could have been able to access them, and that's no good for QF or BA.

I'm not saying I definitely agree/disagree with you or QFVHOQA, I'm just saying that we have no idea what QF has planned... There are a thousand different possibilities (my personal opinion being that QF won't add frequencies into LHR in the future)...
 
Sydscott
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:42 pm

Quoting gemuser (Reply 26):
I and QF , I believe, disagree with you. If they didn't anticipate the frequencies coming back, in due course why keep the LHR slots, which they have "parked" with BA?

I agree that QF have left an anchor out to windward here in regard to LHR. Keeping the slots and leasing them to BA for 2 years give them the opportunity to re-add frequencies in the future. I personally think they will because having only 2 LHR flights per day out of SIN leaving at virtually exactly the same time is a bit silly. I think they should have moved the morning Asian departure that they had from HKG to SIN and spread out their services a bit. Re-timed the 3rd SYD-SIN, 2nd PER-SIN and given a 2nd BNE-SIN and MEL-SIN to provide feed. I still think that that is on the cards depending on what the plans are in relation to one stop India/Middle East Services that actually arrive at decent afternoon/evening hours are. Anyway, it gives them options and personally I think adding a 3rd daily SIN-LHR early in the day and building a combined JQ/QF connector bank around it makes sense and opens more options.
 
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qfvhoqa
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:27 am

In my opinion QF have held on to the LHR slots to soften the blow of dropping the routes, like "We're dropping the routes for now, but we promise we'll be back! See, we only leased the slots to BA, they still belong to QF!"

BKK-LHR was a bit of an orphan route as QF could only fly you SYD-BKK to connect to the flight (plus the JQ MEL-BKK flight). HKG-LHR had more connection opportunities, as it could join PER/MEL/SYD/BNE flights if the timings were adjusted.

I think one of the mistakes with QF offloading you on to BA at HKG is that it is not covered by the JSA (only via SIN or BKK) so unless you book the QF codeshare, discount Y will earn a measly 0.25 points per mile.

That said, I am flying SYD-HKG-LHR in a couple of months, booked with BA flight numbers as they were vastly cheaper.
 
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EK413
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:50 pm

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 29):

Could we see QF129 upgraded to a B744 or B787 and operate SYD-PVG-LHR...?

EK413
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:06 pm

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 29):
I think one of the mistakes with QF offloading you on to BA at HKG is that it is not covered by the JSA (only via SIN or BKK) so unless you book the QF codeshare, discount Y will earn a measly 0.25 points per mile.

That was my understanding as well, until somebody around these parts (I can't for the life of me remember who, but I believe they had a British flag next to their name!) linked me a press release from BA which explicitly states that SIN, BKK and HKG were part of the JSA. QFFF members only earn 100% earn on BA LHR-SIN-SYD so even BKK earns the 25% rate, and this isn't actually BA's fault per se. Rather it is that the two airlines have never reached a more reasonable agreement: BA Executive Club members earn 100%.

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 29):
That said, I am flying SYD-HKG-LHR in a couple of months, booked with BA flight numbers as they were vastly cheaper.

I've noticed that QF offerings to LHR this year are significantly cheaper via HKG, with BA HKG-LHR.

Incidentally in Jan I flew CX BNE-HKG/BA HKG-LHR because the savings ran into the hundreads of dollars ($400 IIRC) - this option was provided by a travel agent, I don't think it is bookable online.

And good luck with BA. They're not a bad airline, but QF and CX p*** rings around them
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qf002
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:07 pm

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 29):
I think one of the mistakes with QF offloading you on to BA at HKG is that it is not covered by the JSA (only via SIN or BKK) so unless you book the QF codeshare, discount Y will earn a measly 0.25 points per mile.

The new LHR structure is acutually beneficial for QFFs... BA's LHR-HKG flights never used to be accessible as QF flights under the JSA, now they are. It might cost more, but it is now at least possible to access a non-full fare economy fare that will earn 100% points for QFF members.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 30):
Could we see QF129 upgraded to a B744 or B787 and operate SYD-PVG-LHR...?

Doubtful. China still really isn't massive for QF, their SYD-PVG is only 6 weekly... Theres also a complete lack of feed, which many posters attribute as a major failing for BKK (and HKG to a lesser extent). QF is also unable to match the price of the Chinese airlines, and isn't the right carrier to carry premium local traffic (BA). SYD-HKG-LHR on an A380 is a more viable option IMO.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 31):
Incidentally in Jan I flew CX BNE-HKG/BA HKG-LHR because the savings ran into the hundreads of dollars ($400 IIRC) - this option was provided by a travel agent, I don't think it is bookable online.

I did a similar thing in January also. BA LHR-HKG then QF HKG-SYD. I saved about $600 over the quotes BA and QF were giving me directly by mixing the flights up. The LHR-HKG leg only earned about 2000 points, but I'd rather have $600 than 6,000 points...
 
Sydscott
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RE: Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return?

Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:11 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 30):
Could we see QF129 upgraded to a B744 or B787 and operate SYD-PVG-LHR...?

QF have expressed interest in this in past. The problem is that they haven't got EU clearance for this flight. So until they get that, and as QF002 has said regarding building some feed, you won't see it.