LRGT
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:34 am

I don't know why VS has been so hush-hush about the A332 suites, even thought they're making their debut on JFK-LHR in a week or so.

It looks like there's nothing groundbreaking here... it's probably a little lighter and takes up a little less space, but my concerns that my favorite part of the seat would be lost can be put to rest: the reverse side that made it actually feel like a bed rather than a flattened airline seat has not been lost (i.e. like Air Canada's dreadful imitation which has so many lumps it is actually more comfortable to not sleep fully flat)



Why is VS keeping this hush-hush? Doesn't look like anything new really.
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
jfk777
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Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:23 pm

Why no advertising or PR yet ? Seems odd for BRB to avoid the media for Upper Class.
 
qf002
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:40 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 1):

This isn't official yet - official press event is April 21st.
 
anstar
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:58 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 1):
Why no advertising or PR yet ?

Advertising/PR will start on 21st when it makes its debut... it will then be rolled out to Dehli, ORD and Mumbai over the following few months.
 
Lentini2001
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:23 pm

Are they still going to be angled so you can't look out of the window without breaking your neck?
 
nicktt
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:02 pm

Is this definitely still going to be in the herringbone style cabin layout? I thought I read somewhere on here it would be a 1-2-1 configuration, so don't see how that would work.

Also I see that the VS J seat folds over on itself to form the bed, which I haven't seen on any other airline myself. I'm used to BA J class where the seat collapses folds itself out of a J position and hooks up with the footrest. Is this something new in the patent, or does the current product also do that?
 
anstar
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:01 pm

Quoting nicktt (Reply 5):
Is this definitely still going to be in the herringbone style cabin layout? I thought I read somewhere on here it would be a 1-2-1 configuration, so don't see how that would work.

It is 1-2-1 and still herringbone just like the new CX seat that is also 1-2-1 and herringbone.

Quoting nicktt (Reply 5):
Also I see that the VS J seat folds over on itself to form the bed, which I haven't seen on any other airline myself.

Air New Zealand have a J seat that folds onto itself as you describe.
 
AusA380
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:15 pm

Quoting anstar (Reply 6):
Air New Zealand have a J seat that folds onto itself as you describe.

I understand that Air New Zealand have a licence agreement for the VS seat, rather than the model that DL and AC use which lead to a legal dispute between VS and the other manufacturer.
 
9VSIO
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:17 pm

Quoting anstar (Reply 6):
Also I see that the VS J seat folds over on itself to form the bed, which I haven't seen on any other airline myself.

Singapore Airlines on its mega wide J seats.
Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
 
Viscount724
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:40 pm

Quoting anstar (Reply 6):
Quoting nicktt (Reply 5):
Is this definitely still going to be in the herringbone style cabin layout? I thought I read somewhere on here it would be a 1-2-1 configuration, so don't see how that would work.

It is 1-2-1 and still herringbone just like the new CX seat that is also 1-2-1 and herringbone.

How does the herringbone layout fit at 1-2-1 on the A330? On AC it's 1-1-1, same as the 763. The A330 cabin isn't wide enough for 1-2-1 in the herringbone configuration..
http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/fleet/a330-300xm.html

1-2-1 herringbone fits on the wider 777.
http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/fleet/77W.html
 
planejamie
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:29 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):
How does the herringbone layout fit at 1-2-1 on the A330? On AC it's 1-1-1, same as the 763. The A330 cabin isn't wide enough for 1-2-1 in the herringbone configuration..
http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/fleet/a330-300xm.html

1-2-1 herringbone fits on the wider 777.
http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/fl....html

The new CX seat is the reverse herringbone one which is where the seat faces the window and they are angled differently so it can fit 1-2-1 - CX have theirs in 1-2-1
 
ogepma
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:15 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):
How does the herringbone layout fit at 1-2-1 on the A330? On AC it's 1-1-1, same as the 763. The A330 cabin isn't wide enough for 1-2-1 in the herringbone configuration..
http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/fleet/a330-300xm.html

That is true but it seems VS is going to introduce a newer type or herringbone configuration. According to this picture, the angles of the seat in the middles would be a lot steeper and there would be an offset in the middle seats between rows

My main worry is that the seats may be narrower. I would have expected them to go for the CX, US style forward herringbone configuration as that gives more flexibility to couples/business partners travelling together. I really hope this is worth the investment. I would not judge it until it is fully unveiled.
 
LRGT
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:23 pm

(sorry... duplicate)

[Edited 2012-04-15 16:45:53]
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
LRGT
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:44 pm

Quoting ogepma (Reply 11):
That is true but it seems VS is going to introduce a newer type or herringbone configuration. According to this picture, the angles of the seat in the middles would be a lot steeper and there would be an offset in the middle seats between rows

My main worry is that the seats may be narrower. I would have expected them to go for the CX, US style forward herringbone configuration as that gives more flexibility to couples/business partners travelling together. I really hope this is worth the investment. I would not judge it until it is fully unveiled.


I didn't even see that patent drawing with the reverse herringbone that you posted.... that doesn't seem to match the seatmap on the VS website though, which shows a straight herringbone with all 4 across: http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/gb...aboutus/ourfleet/index.jsp?type=15

I'd honestly put more faith in those patent drawings you posted for the center seats than the VS website team though! With that said, it appears that the new seat will likely be a reverse herringbone in the center (D&G), and a forward-facing herringbone along the window (A&K).

This makes sense, with the window seats still facing away from the windows, so that that hole can be placed in the ottoman surround (to give extra space to the taller passenger for the window A&K seats, were the beds will probably be a few inches shorter than the center seats). The patent drawings for the window seats show this ottoman design, so it would not make sense for that new ottoman to be up against the sidewall instead of the aisle with that design. The center seats are the only ones that go under the adjacent seat... the D seats appear to be lower than the G seats, and the foot-wells overlap on the D&G's, probably making the bed longer on the D&G's even though they take up less space in the cabin than the A&K's, even though A&K's are shorter beds.
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
LRGT
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:08 am

Quoting lrgt (Reply 13):
with the window seats still facing away from the windows, so that that hole can be placed in the ottoman surround (to give extra space to the taller passenger for the window A&K seats, were the beds will probably be a few inches shorter than the center seats). The patent drawings for the window seats show this ottoman design, so it would not make sense for that new ottoman to be up against the sidewall instead of the aisle with that design.

Following on that point, VS fits 2 extra rows along the windows in A-zone v. CX (+4 seats), and 1/2 a row extra in the center v. CX (+1 seat), for a total of an extra 5 seats v. CX. This is an impressive improvement without sacrificing comfort, given that CX has the same galley config on their A333's (except VS has a bar instead of 1 of those galleys).

CX fits only 7 rows along the window in the A-zone whilest VS fits 9 rows. I assume that VS's window seats will be at a greater angle (less forward facing, more sideways) than CX, allowing for the 2 extra rows. This is made possible by the Virgin innovation of the overlapping seats in the center, meaning they take up less cabin width than the center seats on CX. That innovation alone only gets them 1 extra seat in the center, but since the center seats take up less cabin width on VS, they get 4 extra in on the window sides, which is quite substantial.

At the end of the day, VS has a design that allows for 5 extra seats, and that is pretty good.

I wonder how this design will apply on a 747 with a much wider cabin... would the seats simply be more sideways than before? I'm more curious to see what the new 744 suite will look like.

[Edited 2012-04-15 17:12:50]
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
qf002
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:10 am

Quoting lrgt (Reply 13):
I didn't even see that patent drawing with the reverse herringbone that you posted.... that doesn't seem to match the seatmap on the VS website though, which shows a straight herringbone with all 4 across: http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/gb...pe=15

The website won't show a product that hasn't yet been unveiled...
 
anstar
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:01 am

Quoting lrgt (Reply 14):
I wonder how this design will apply on a 747 with a much wider cabin... would the seats simply be more sideways than before? I'm more curious to see what the new 744 suite will look like.

From what i have read on some other sites it doesnt look like the new suite is going on the 747 - well not on the gatwick ones anyway.

[Edited 2012-04-16 00:21:26]
 
LRGT
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:24 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 15):
The website won't show a product that hasn't yet been unveiled...

The website seatmap DOES show all seats facing in a non-reverse herringbone configuration 4-abreast (just like the 747) in an obviously narrower cabin.

However, as stated previously, based on the patent designs, we can tell that window seats appear to be in standard herringbone, and center seats in a reverse herringbone.

Either their web team made a small error, or they purposefully did this, so as not to reveal a "big change" that could prompt customer/press/etc inquiry, as to the change in the angle-direction of the center seats from an A to a V-shape. With of course the V allowing for overlap with the D&G seats at different heights off the floor.

[Edited 2012-04-16 08:26:15]
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
qf002
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:11 pm

Quoting lrgt (Reply 17):
However, as stated previously, based on the patent designs, we can tell that window seats appear to be in standard herringbone, and center seats in a reverse herringbone

Forgive me if I'm missing something incredibly obvious here, but the centre seats don't appear to be reverse herringbone to me?? They still face out into the aisle? I've looked through both patents and can't seem to figuremout where the reverse herringbone is coming from...

Quoting lrgt (Reply 17):
as to the change in the angle-direction of the center seats from an A to a V-shape. With of course the V allowing for overlap with the D&G seats at different heights off the floor.

I don't get where you're seeing the change to reverse herringbone from! Nor do I understand this overlapping seats thing? From what I can see, it's just a more compact herringbone layout, using the wasted space down the middle of the plane to fit more seats in!

Where is this height and overlap coming from? All the seats are the same height from the drawings submitted with patent D653883...

Sorry! I'm just not following what you're trying to say based on the drawings!
 
LRGT
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:53 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 18):

I don't get where you're seeing the change to reverse herringbone from! Nor do I understand this overlapping seats thing? From what I can see, it's just a more compact herringbone layout, using the wasted space down the middle of the plane to fit more seats in!

Where is this height and overlap coming from? All the seats are the same height from the drawings submitted with patent D653883...

Sorry! I'm just not following what you're trying to say based on the drawings!

I didn't see it either, but ogepma posted an additional patent drawing showing this (See reply #11). It appears VS filed 2 separate patents. There seems to be an additional patent solely related to the overlapping center seats in a reverse herringbone.
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
ogepma
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:18 am

Quoting lrgt (Reply 19):
I didn't see it either, but ogepma posted an additional patent drawing showing this (See reply #11). It appears VS filed 2 separate patents. There seems to be an additional patent solely related to the overlapping center seats in a reverse herringbone.

The middle seats will be standard herringbone slightly similar what they currently have on the 744's. The images I posted were for the standard herringbone configuration. This pic maybe a little bit clearer. It has been rotated to the left.


They filed to patents. One was for the seat itself while the other was for the configuration.
 
LRGT
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:37 am

That would match the seatmap given on their website. Funny that they patented a reverse-herringbone, overlapping design, but didn't even use it!
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
qf002
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:58 am

Quoting lrgt (Reply 19):

But those seats do not overlap each other at different heights from the floor... And these drawings (yes, I've seen both patents, and have gone through all 20 drawings available through patentgenius.com) show a standard herringbone configuration, not a reverse herringbone one. The seats are still situated in the centre of the aircraft facing outwards to the aisle.

The only difference is that the seats on one aisle have been shifted backhand slotted in behind the seats on the other aisle, making the entire central bank of seats narrower, and hence allowing them to fit more seats into the narrower Airbus fuse compared to 1-1-1 herringbone. Nowhere do ottomans or footwells or anything overlap.

Quoting lrgt (Reply 21):

Where's the patent for an overlapping reverse herringbone seat? I must be missing something, because I don't get where this ideaiscoming from?
 
LRGT
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:16 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 22):
But those seats do not overlap each other at different heights from the floor... And these drawings (yes, I've seen both patents, and have gone through all 20 drawings available through patentgenius.com) show a standard herringbone configuration, not a reverse herringbone one. The seats are still situated in the centre of the aircraft facing outwards to the aisle.

Sorry I must be loosing it! I thought the ottoman was the headrest and there was an overlap on the bottom (what I thought was for the legs).

The illusion of an overlap came from the fact that the drawing is not a complete bird's eye, but at an angle, making it look like there was an overlap, which obviously wouldn't happen with the upper-half of passengers' bodies   This is why I immediately thought the top part of the seat in the drawing was the headrest. However, Virgin choose to draw it backwards, with feet on top.

Yes these don't look like anything new actually except for that hole in the ottoman surround.

[Edited 2012-04-18 21:19:09]
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
qf002
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:31 am

Quoting lrgt (Reply 23):

No problem   I was very confused for a moment then!!
 
virgincrew
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:51 pm

It doesn't match the seat plan published on the VS website & I can't see the VS website co-ordinater getting it wrong ?

I can't see VS putting a false seat plan on their websiye when passengers will booking seats and using the seat map for seat reservation selection.

I say let's wait until the aircraft is released to the press on the 21st April ...

Hello Beautiful !!!
 
anstar
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:57 pm

 
virgincrew
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:41 pm

a link for the launch of the new Upper Class Suite

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/globa...erclass/new-upper-class-suite.html
Hello Beautiful !!!
 
lhr380
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:46 pm

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 27):

Is it just me, or are their error's on the page
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
virgincrew
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:09 pm

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 28):
Is it just me, or are their error's on the page

yes I noticed that - it is on the VS Canada & USA site, this page hasn't been loaded on the UK website yet.

I love the new cabin:



The new suite looks much better than the current one and the layout of the cabin is better;



I love this new bar area, it makes it feel more like a lounge area:

Hello Beautiful !!!
 
koruman
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:51 am

So basically identical to the old one then!
 
starguy
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:26 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 30):

Have you clicked the above links? The new suite is clearly not identical other than the layout which has also been adapted.

Committing tens if not hundreds of millions of pounds to designing and completely new product, building it, testing it and rolling it out is exciting, but what happens when you put it out there and the public don't like it? We know that Virgin's customers like the current Upper Class seat, it's a solid business class product even in its current form, but we also know what the issues and niggles are. An evolution of a product gives the designers and the company a chance to hopefully put right those issues and introduce improvements in technology. Take the iPhone 3G and the iPhone 4S for example, a massive improvement in speed, quality of screen, build quality, addition of a flash and greatly improved camera.... but it's still basically the same phone and having had both, I love the improvements, even though I very much enjoyed my original 3G.

Identical? No. A vast improvement? Yes.
I can't wait to try out the new Upper Class seat, hopefully I will come to a similar conclusion.
 
qf002
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New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:39 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 30):
So basically identical to the old one then!

I'd say it's vastly different... Look at the cabin photos of the old/new products side by side and you'll notice that just about everything except the herringbone layout is different. Even then, though, there has been a overhaul in the layout of the cabin.

The differences are far greater than when NZ, for example, recently updated their J seats...
 
virgincrew
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RE: New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:50 pm

Quoting koruman (Reply 30):
So basically identical to the old one then!

I would say there are loads of changes !!
Hello Beautiful !!!
 
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garpd
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RE: New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:54 pm

Looks nice, shame the seats are still angled away from the windows.
I won't be flying upper class any time soon. I like the view out of the window too much.
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virgincrew
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RE: New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:02 pm

Quoting StarGuy (Reply 31):
Identical? No. A vast improvement? Yes.

couldn't agree more - VS have listened to customer feedback and made changes to the product, whilst keeping what made The Upper Class Suite an awarding winning Business Class.

Quoting StarGuy (Reply 31):
We know that Virgin's customers like the current Upper Class seat, it's a solid business class

product even in its current form, but we also know what the issues and niggles are.

exactly ! let's keep what works so well and change what is wrong with the product !!!
Hello Beautiful !!!
 
lhr380
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RE: New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:16 pm

Ok, the Tour link now finally works......

Do the TVs come out at all, they seem very close to where the customer would be sitting.

Its still a J seat you have to get out of to turn into a flat bed, you cant just recline all the way down from a seating position.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
sevenheavy
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RE: New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:23 pm

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 36):

The TVs do come out, the arm is quite long so they move a good distance from the viewer.

On the whole, the pros seem to outweigh the cons. To me, the cons are that you still have to fold the seat over to convert into a bed, and that window views are still somewhat restrictive ( althought definately improved due to the reduced angle relative to forward).

I'm also slightly concerned that some of the peripheral room has been lost, specifically when in bed mode, although its difficult to tell

The pros are the longer, wider seat, much better recline, bigger screen, connectivity, comfort (both as a bed and a seat) and probably a less claustrophobic feeling due to the opaque window instead of a solid wall. I also like the new bar, and the new service and catering looks solid.

There is always a compromise with these new generation business class seats. VS have the window view issues which I would guess are less of an issue to non a.netters!. They seem to have addressed this as well as they could, and probably your average business class flyer cares much less anyway. Folding the bed over, personally, doesn't bother me. You're going to get up anyway to change into your sleep suit, put your mattress cover down, wash, get your duvet etc. and the crew will do it for you so in reality what difference does it make?

BA as a comparison have the "backwards" issues, as well as access. Again, it probably bothers some people and not others.

Overall, this looks a very good product. A great evolution of a winning theme which has addressed a lot of the small issues that needed attention.
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
ba319-131
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RE: New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:05 pm

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 29):
I love the new cabin

- Looks nice with the lighting though still looks 'busy' and I'm not that keen on this layout really.

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 29):
The new suite looks much better than the current one and the layout of the cabin is better;

- Indeed looks much nicer, the old one was getting a bit tired.

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 29):
I love this new bar area, it makes it feel more like a lounge area:

- Vast improvement over the old, looks like a proper bar now.

All in all not bad, if the catering has been improved too then it could be a decent product.
111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
 
Liverpoola380
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RE: New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:24 am

I think it looks pretty cool

It will be good to see some interior pics uploaded on here so we can get a clearer look
 
sq_ek_freak
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RE: New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:22 pm

Overall a very chic, very "Virgin" looking product. I like the opposing middle seat layout rather than what they have now. Can't wait to try it soon!

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 38):

All in all not bad, if the catering has been improved too then it could be a decent product.

Judging from recent trip reports on VS Upper Class posted here, it seems as though catering has been vastly improved! Not sure about Economy yet though.
Keep Discovering
 
anstar
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RE: New VS Upper Class Schematics And Official Reveal!

Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:44 am

Some pics I came across

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7485/ucds4.jpg