WN787
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How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:55 am

To your knowledge, has a 744 had a fatality?
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warden145
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How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:01 am

There was SQ 006 in 2000, with 83 lost (may they rest in peace):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Airlines_Flight_006

Looks like there have been a few other 747-400 hull-losses...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747-400#Incidents_and_accidents
ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
 
blackwidow
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How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:01 am

Singapore Airlines - 9V-SPK
 
Joost
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How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:03 am

So far there are 4 hull-losses for the 747-400, 2 pax and 2 freighters.

Pax:
1993: China Airlines Flight 605, TPE-HKG, runway overrun at HKG (0 fatalities, aircraft write-off)
2000: Singapore Airlines Flight 006, crashed into a construction as a result of runway confusion (83 fatalities)

Freighter:
2010: UPS Airlines Flight 6, crashed close to DXB, in-flight fire, 2 fatalties (the crew)
2011: Asiana Airlines Flight 991, crashed close to Jeju, possible in-flight cargo fire, 2 fatalities (the crew)
 
kl5147
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How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:04 am

This one comes to my mind.

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gil Yu

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gkirk
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How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:07 am

The UPS 744F in Dubai killed the two crew
Asiana 744F crash killed the crew
I think the two above were due to Lithium batteries being carried, rather than a fault with the a/c itself IIRC.

1996, an AF 744 encountered severe turbulence, and a passenger got hit by the IFE system. They later died in hospital from the injuries

Singapore Airlines 747-400 in Taipei.
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WN787
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How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:32 am

May all RIP. With sincere respect. Was not sure of the history of this aircraft. I hope no more to come
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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817Dreamliiner
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How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:50 am

Quoting WN787 (Reply 6):
Was not sure of the history of this aircraft.

You could have done some research on google as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747-400

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747_hull_losses

I know its wiki but it can be helpful at times
Please let me know... If you know this is the end of the world, Let me know... If you know the truth...
 
covert
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How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:59 pm

Aviation Safety Network 747 page. Read up:

http://aviation-safety.net/database/type/type.php?type=104
none
 
Viscount724
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:44 pm

Quoting joost (Reply 3):
So far there are 4 hull-losses for the 747-400, 2 pax and 2 freighters.

Not correct. There have been 6 744 hull losses, 4 pax, 2 freighters.

1993 - CI HKG (non-fatal)
1998 - KE SEL (non-fatal)
2000 - SQ TPE (83 fatalities)
2008 - NH BKK (non-fatal, caught fire during maintenance)
2010 - UPS DXB (2 fatalities, freighter)
2011 - OZ near Jeju, S. Korea (2 fatalities, freighter)
 
sankaps
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:20 am

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 7):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747_hull_losses

I know its wiki but it can be helpful at times

I am almost certain this is missing one or two hull losses. The one I seem to recall is an AF 747 hull-loss in BOM with no fatalities (they had one in MAA too, which is noted).

And I seem to recall a 747 hull loss in DEL as well -- IIRC another AF 747, was broken up and lying next to the runway for a while. I remember thinking how strange it was that AF lost three 747s in India...

[Edited 2012-04-15 19:21:34]
 
skipness1E
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:25 am

He's asking about the series 400, Air France have lost none, even the one that went swimming....
 
HBGDS
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:36 am

There was F-GITA at Tahiti in 1993, which ended up partially in the drink. By all accounts it looked like a write-off, but it was fished out and after 18 months of repairs and rebuild, it returned to service. staff reportedly nicknamed it GITAnic... Text in French, but nice pic selection at
http://www.crashdehabsheim.net/autre%20crash%20a%20Tahiti.htm
 
sankaps
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:27 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 11):
He's asking about the series 400, Air France have lost none, even the one that went swimming....

I realize the OP is asking about the -400. My comment refers to the Wiki link that supposedly lists all 747 hull losses, and I think the list is missing some of them (albeit maybe not -400s).
 
FlySSC
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:57 am

Quoting sankaps (Reply 10):
I am almost certain this is missing one or two hull losses. The one I seem to recall is an AF 747 hull-loss in BOM with no fatalities (they had one in MAA too, which is noted).

The aircraft lost by AF in BOM was a B747-128 registered N28888 and the accident occurred back in 1975 (so obviously, could not be a -400). It was destroyed by fire before take off after tires burst during taxiing.

The one lost in MAA was a B747-200F, F-GPAN (ex-UTA). Landed noose wheel up and was destroyed by fire also after landing.
 
sankaps
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:59 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 14):
The aircraft lost by AF in BOM was a B747-128 registered N28888 and the accident occurred back in 1975 (so obviously, could not be a -400). It was destroyed by fire before take off after tires burst during taxiing.

Thanks. This is missing in the Wiki list of 747 hull losses. Also the one in DEL is missing (that one may have been a -400, I am not sure).
 
bennett123
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:10 am

I take that destroyed means crashed not scrapped.

iirc, about 19 JAL B747-400 were cut up at Walnut Ridge in 2011.
 
FlySSC
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:04 am

Quoting sankaps (Reply 15):
Also the one in DEL is missing (that one may have been a -400, I am not sure).

  

That one was a B747-200 Combi, N4506H, in July 1988( engine fire warning during takeoff caused the crew to abort the takeoff. The aircraft overran the runway. Tha alarm was false).

[Edited 2012-04-16 00:05:29]
 
sankaps
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:17 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 17):
That one was a B747-200 Combi, N4506H, in July 1988( engine fire warning during takeoff caused the crew to abort the takeoff. The aircraft overran the runway. Tha alarm was false).

Thanks. Amazing that AF have lost 3 747s in India!
 
ssteve
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:09 pm

Quoting sankaps (Reply 18):
Amazing that AF have lost 3 747s in India!

India is a pretty large place.
 
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litz
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:27 pm

Quoting HBGDS (Reply 12):
There was F-GITA at Tahiti in 1993, which ended up partially in the drink. By all accounts it looked like a write-off, but it was fished out and after 18 months of repairs and rebuild, it returned to service. staff reportedly nicknamed it GITAnic... Text in French, but nice pic selection at
http://www.crashdehabsheim.net/autre...i.htm

A few fairly interesting things in that article picture-wise (since the french is ... well ... french, unless you pop it into Google translate) ...

1) the MAMMOTH piece of structural framework coming out of that big Russian transport ...
2) the jackstands holding up the airplane via beams run through the windows ...
3) when it's all done, apparently the doors were undamaged as there are nice white doors in the new sheet metal. Looks like they just bolted 'em right onto the new construction.

Anyway you care to spin it, that's a massive, massive amount of work done on that aircraft.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:18 pm

Pretty damned impressive safety record for a plane built in such numbers and in service for over 20 years.

Quoting HBGDS (Reply 12):

There was F-GITA at Tahiti in 1993, which ended up partially in the drink. By all accounts it looked like a write-off, but it was fished out and after 18 months of repairs and rebuild, it returned to service. staff reportedly nicknamed it GITAnic... Text in French, but nice pic selection at
http://www.crashdehabsheim.net/autre...i.htm

Interesting comment at the bottom of that page, regarding F-GITA's retirement: "Les B 747-400 ne sont plus rentables" (translation: 747-400s are no longer profitable). Huh???
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bennett123
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:29 pm

F-GITA ended up at Kemble.

RIP.
 
sankaps
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:59 am

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 19):
India is a pretty large place.

Size is not the relevant issue is this case. It is proportion of write-offs compared to number of AF 747 flights to India. AF flew the 747 much more to North America, Africa, and rest of Asia (also large places), as well as of course to/from Paris, but none written off there. So was just pointing out the statistical anamoly.
 
FlySSC
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:50 am

Quoting sankaps (Reply 23):
AF flew the 747 much more to North America, Africa, and rest of Asia (also large places), as well as of course to/from Paris, but none written off there. So was just pointing out the statistical anamoly.

At that time, AF had a large fleet of B747-100/200. Actually, after AF retired from service the B707 in 1982, the B747 was the only real long haul aircraft type in AF's fleet until the delivery the first A340 in 1992 (beside a few A300, used mostly to West Africa and the Middle East, not really long haul).
Don't forget also that at that time, long flights were not nonstop ... BOM & DEL being en route stops on many flights to Asia/Far east (such as PAR-BOM-BKK-HKG, PAR-KHI-DEL-PEK).
 
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BreninTW
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:22 am

Quoting litz (Reply 20):
Quoting HBGDS (Reply 12):
There was F-GITA at Tahiti in 1993, which ended up partially in the drink. By all accounts it looked like a write-off, but it was fished out and after 18 months of repairs and rebuild, it returned to service. staff reportedly nicknamed it GITAnic... Text in French, but nice pic selection at
http://www.crashdehabsheim.net/autre...i.htm

A few fairly interesting things in that article picture-wise (since the french is ... well ... french, unless you pop it into Google translate) ...

1) the MAMMOTH piece of structural framework coming out of that big Russian transport ...
2) the jackstands holding up the airplane via beams run through the windows ...
3) when it's all done, apparently the doors were undamaged as there are nice white doors in the new sheet metal. Looks like they just bolted 'em right onto the new construction.

Anyway you care to spin it, that's a massive, massive amount of work done on that aircraft.

Did they really take the tail off the aircraft and reattach it during the repair? About halfway down the page, there's a picture showing an all-white 744, without a tail. The pictures of the return flight show it still having the AF titles and tail. Methinks not all of the pictures are from that repair.
 
N14AZ
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:44 am

Quoting brenintw (Reply 25):
Did they really take the tail off the aircraft and reattach it during the repair? About halfway down the page, there's a picture showing an all-white 744, without a tail. The pictures of the return flight show it still having the AF titles and tail. Methinks not all of the pictures are from that repair.

That's exactly what I thought as well. I would appreciate if someone could provide the answer to that question as well. Thanks in advance.
 
peh
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:56 am

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 7):

This is a forum, not a Q&A session. I'd like to think that people post questions on this site because they want to ignite a rich conversation around topics and get multiple points of view.

I've learned something from everyone's responses, so thank you WN787 for asking.
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fraport
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:06 am

Quoting brenintw (Reply 25):
Did they really take the tail off the aircraft and reattach it during the repair? About halfway down the page, there's a picture showing an all-white 744, without a tail. The pictures of the return flight show it still having the AF titles and tail. Methinks not all of the pictures are from that repair.

I could imagine they removed the tail to make the aircraft less sensitive to winds. If you look at the pictures, they built the tent just around the front section of the aircraft. With the tail still attached, the aircraft may have been in danger to be moved by the winds too much. Just my thoughts...
 
bennett123
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:54 pm

For anyone interested in F-GITA's time at Kemble, my first sighting was 04/09/2010. It was gone by 23/04/2011.
 
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BreninTW
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:00 am

Quoting Fraport (Reply 28):
I could imagine they removed the tail to make the aircraft less sensitive to winds. If you look at the pictures, they built the tent just around the front section of the aircraft. With the tail still attached, the aircraft may have been in danger to be moved by the winds too much. Just my thoughts...

And painted over the titles, only to paint them back on before ferrying the aircraft to CDG (or wherever it's shown arriving with the repairs and titles clearly visible)?

I'm still not convinced that particular series of photographs is of the repair of this aircraft.
 
n471wn
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:35 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 16):
about 19 JAL B747-400 were cut up at Walnut Ridge in 2011.

Not even close
 
n471wn
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:41 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):
Not correct. There have been 6 744 hull losses, 4 pax, 2 freighters.

1993 - CI HKG (non-fatal)
1998 - KE SEL (non-fatal)
2000 - SQ TPE (83 fatalities)
2008 - NH BKK (non-fatal, caught fire during maintenance)
2010 - UPS DXB (2 fatalities, freighter)
2011 - OZ near Jeju, S. Korea (2 fatalities, freighter)

Again not correct----there have been 7 hull losses-----you forgot the hard landing of VT-ESM in Bombay of Air India which resulted in the w/o of 27078
 
sankaps
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:13 am

Quoting n471wn (Reply 32):
Again not correct----there have been 7 hull losses-----you forgot the hard landing of VT-ESM in Bombay of Air India which resulted in the w/o of 27078

VT-ESM had an engine fire on taxi-out incident in 2009 that resulted in minor damage. Do you have a source for the hard-landing and write-off you refer to? Cannot seem to find evidence of that anywhere.
 
n471wn
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:33 pm

Quoting sankaps (Reply 33):
VT-ESM had an engine fire on taxi-out incident in 2009 that resulted in minor damage. Do you have a source for the hard-landing and write-off you refer to? Cannot seem to find evidence of that anywhere.

My mistake as it was an engine fire and not a hard landing----They were going to repair the a/c but my souce (atdb.org) says they elected to write it off---sorry for the confusion
 
n471wn
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:00 pm

Quoting n471wn (Reply 34):
Quoting sankaps (Reply 33):
VT-ESM had an engine fire on taxi-out incident in 2009 that resulted in minor damage. Do you have a source for the hard-landing and write-off you refer to? Cannot seem to find evidence of that anywhere.

My mistake as it was an engine fire and not a hard landing----They were going to repair the a/c but my souce (atdb.org) says they elected to write it off---sorry for the confusion

And it had nearly 60,000 hours on the frame and a picture of the a/c in the data base does show extensive wing damage that, while repairable, was not deemed economic
 
Viscount724
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:32 pm

Quoting n471wn (Reply 34):
Quoting sankaps (Reply 33):
VT-ESM had an engine fire on taxi-out incident in 2009 that resulted in minor damage. Do you have a source for the hard-landing and write-off you refer to? Cannot seem to find evidence of that anywhere.

My mistake as it was an engine fire and not a hard landing----They were going to repair the a/c but my souce (atdb.org) says they elected to write it off---sorry for the confusion

I can't find any reference to that aircraft as having been written off. Do you have a source? It's not even mentioned as an incident in the Aviation-Safety.net site.
 
sankaps
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:42 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 36):
I can't find any reference to that aircraft as having been written off. Do you have a source? It's not even mentioned as an incident in the Aviation-Safety.net site.

The engine fire on taxi-out is here http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=68135 . However says minor damage (though a shocking indictment of the lack of adherance to basic ATC / communications and safety processes at Air India!).

It is possible AI retired the aircraft after the incident as they were retiring the -400s in any case, but that is different from a write-off.
 
sankaps
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RE: How Many 747-400s Have Been Destroyed?

Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:50 am

Though in this photo http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-India/Boeing-747-437/1574284/M/ , it does look like the damage is more than just minor (or perhaps just looks that way thanks to the soot).

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