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RWA380
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What Other Flying Can OO Do For AS/QX?

Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:41 am

Since OO seems to be providing a good service to AS flying those routes that are a bit too long for a Q400, but not enough for a 734 or 73G capacity wise. I've mentioned it in another thread, why doesn't QQ also start fling routes AS/QX have dropped or are marginal currently? Places like LMT, OTH, PDT, IDA, TWF, RDD, ACV and even adding some like SLE. They can use the EMB-120's, or eventual replacement. I think QX/AS shouldn't forget it's roots serving small cities here in the NW with F27's. If they hadn't had the problems with the 328 they did, I could see QX flying to most of those places now.
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Goldenshield
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RE: What Other Flying Can OO Do For AS/QX?

Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:29 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Thread starter):
why doesn't QQ also start fling routes AS/QX have dropped or are marginal currently

Because Reno Air has been dead over a decade now.
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ridgid727
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RE: What Other Flying Can OO Do For AS/QX?

Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:58 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 1):
Because Reno Air has been dead over a decade now.

You're right about that. Rmember when OO's code was QG, and they changed it to OO after buying Sunaire
 
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RWA380
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RE: What Other Flying Can OO Do For AS/QX?

Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:00 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 1):
Because Reno Air has been dead over a decade now

Just for the record I did mean OO. Thanks for pointing it out.  
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ridgid727
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RE: What Other Flying Can OO Do For AS/QX?

Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:08 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Thread starter):
They can use the EMB-120's, or eventual replacement

What is their "eventual" replacement for the EMB120? Looks like their answer has been the CR2 in places like CDC.
 
kwbl
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RE: What Other Flying Can OO Do For AS/QX?

Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:08 pm

I always thought once QX went all Q-400 that OO could operate an "express" product for AS and be far more effective than UA is currently. Now that they have a relationship with the CR7 flying, I wonder if it even on the radar. My home airport, SLE, was really close to getting OO here with 4 EM2 flights per day to SEA. It eventually died because of some computer reservation issues (not sure what they were but the idea was that OO was going to do it at-risk but link to the majors in SEA). My belief then was that it would be far better, and increase the odds of success for both OO and SLE, if there was an AS tie-in. I know me and my family would account for 50+ trips per year! All of those cities listed above would benefit tremendously and AS would further strengthen it's hubs at SEA and PDX,
 
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cic777
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RE: What Other Flying Can OO Do For AS/QX?

Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:30 pm

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 4):
What is their "eventual" replacement for the EMB120? Looks like their answer has been the CR2 in places like CDC.

I'm curious to know that as well. It will tell us a lot about their plans on which cities will get discontinued. OO used to have a diagram on their website that showed the phaseout schedule for the E120. I keep reading here and elsewhere that the CR2 isn't a very economical aircraft either, but I think a lot depends on the mission the carrier chooses for the aircraft. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I, too, would like to see QX get back to their roots a little bit. But alas I guess they seem to think bigger is better.
 
SuperDash
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RE: What Other Flying Can OO Do For AS/QX?

Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:15 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Thread starter):
I think QX/AS shouldn't forget it's roots serving small cities here in the NW with F27's. If they hadn't had the problems with the 328 they did, I could see QX flying to most of those places now.


We had Dash 8-200s and those were WAY better planes than the 328s and the trip cost not much different. The bottom line is the bottom line. It may be sexy or historical to serve these markets, but that doesn't necessarily pay the freight. We would have left those markets anyway. The AS people on this forum will tell you that AS has been very disciplined on the routes they fly and that those routes must financially contribute to the network - regardless if its AS, QX, OO or KS. My guess is that there are few money losing "strategic" routes left at AS. 30 seat planes in the best of world give you a bust even to maybe a 2% margin. That's the best world and far below the 10% AS likes to talk about. With fuel prices where they are, AS will not be (likely - never say never) adding more 30 seat regional flying anytime soon (in the "Lower 48"). Sorry  
 
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RWA380
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RE: What Other Flying Can OO Do For AS/QX?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:44 am

Quoting KWBL (Reply 5):
I always thought once QX went all Q-400 that OO could operate an "express" product for AS and be far more effective than UA is currently. Now that they have a relationship with the CR7 flying, I wonder if it even on the radar. My home airport, SLE, was really close to getting OO here with 4 EM2 flights per day to SEA. It eventually died because of some computer reservation issues (not sure what they were but the idea was that OO was going to do it at-risk but link to the majors in SEA). My belief then was that it would be far better, and increase the odds of success for both OO and SLE, if there was an AS tie-in. I know me and my family would account for 50+ trips per year! All of those cities listed above would benefit tremendously and AS would further strengthen it's hubs at SEA and PDX,

Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking when I posted this thread. I do understand the logistics, certainly not all of them, but the basics. AS/QX is doing what all emerging carriers do when they get bigger, forget their roots, forget the areas and places that helped make them what they are currently. I love AS/QX, I have flown tons of times with Chester but there is more to community than dollars. I guess I am too old to forget JT before QX, and how our part of the world had decent air service to many more destinations than it does now. I agree a SLE-SEA flight would work better than SLE-SLC, I think at less than an hour drive, PDX is too much competition to make SLE viable, too bad IMHO.
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hiflyeras
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RE: What Other Flying Can OO Do For AS/QX?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:25 pm

SLE is similar to OLM (Olympia, WA)....too close to a major airport for scheduled service to be successful. It's been tried in the past out of both and you see the results today....nada. I think as both cities grow you might see another attempt someday as it would be extremely convenient for those living nearby. I think you'll see service to PAE first before you see SLE or OLM.

As to the original post, I could see OO on SEA/ PDX-SLC. It bugs me that AS won't start service on their own to SLC due to stepping on DL's toes. This might be a foot in the door that doesn't create as much controversy as taking mainline jets into SLC would.
 
hatbutton
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RE: What Other Flying Can OO Do For AS/QX?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:52 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 8):
AS/QX is doing what all emerging carriers do when they get bigger, forget their roots, forget the areas and places that helped make them what they are currently.

I disagree.

A) You're assuming AS/QX is forgetting their roots. I think this is completely false and the decision to pull out of some of those smaller stations was not taken lightly. I had heard that some of the stations they tried everything they could for a couple years to make them profitable to no avail. When the time came to shut them down they offered the affected employees other positions in the company and gave the cities ample notice.

B) There seems to be an assumption that these routes were ever profitable. AS/QX 15 years ago was a different airline in the sense that it was accepted that you would lose money on some routes. That no longer is the case. Just because a Q200 was getting filled up didn't make it profitable. But 15 years ago jet fuel also cost nothing. It's just not the same world anymore and airlines can't afford to hold onto routes for the sake of it. Can you imagine if AS/QX went bankrupt and someone found out that it was because they held onto these loss making routes? They would be blasted by shareholders, the media and a.net people alike.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: What Other Flying Can OO Do For AS/QX?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:13 am

I'm curious to see where the SkyWest experiment goes with AS. I can't help but think that AS will expand on it if passenger feedback is positive and the numbers pan out. For now, I guess we wait and see.

I'll be flying AlaskaSkyWest this Sunday to Long Beach, which is a CR7 route we've flown in the past on QX. Our return flight via PDX/QX was downgauged to a CR2, though, so thankfully Alaska called today and "bumped" us to the nonstop on a CR7. I enjoy these planes as well as Long Beach and am looking forward to trying out SkyWest for the first time.

-Dave
-Dave
 
Goldenshield
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RE: What Other Flying Can OO Do For AS/QX?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:23 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 11):
Our return flight via PDX/QX was downgauged to a CR2, though, so thankfully Alaska called today and "bumped" us to the

That's impossible, as QX never had any.
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RWA380
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RE: What Other Flying Can OO Do For AS/QX?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:58 pm

Quoting hatbutton (Reply 10):
I disagree.

A) You're assuming AS/QX is forgetting their roots. I think this is completely false and the decision to pull out of some of those smaller stations was not taken lightly. I had heard that some of the stations they tried everything they could for a couple years to make them profitable to no avail. When the time came to shut them down they offered the affected employees other positions in the company and gave the cities ample notice.

B) There seems to be an assumption that these routes were ever profitable. AS/QX 15 years ago was a different airline in the sense that it was accepted that you would lose money on some routes. That no longer is the case. Just because a Q200 was getting filled up didn't make it profitable. But 15 years ago jet fuel also cost nothing. It's just not the same world anymore and airlines can't afford to hold onto routes for the sake of it. Can you imagine if AS/QX went bankrupt and someone found out that it was because they held onto these loss making routes? They would be blasted by shareholders, the media and a.net people alike.

From my original posting, I was not suggesting QX and the Q400 would go in to these airports, I was suggesting OO could go in with smaller planes to do some at risk flying for QX/AS. I think OO fying for UA here in the NW would be better suited to flying for QX/AS.

From what I've read here, and elsewhere, personal experience and trip reports, QQ's flying for AS/QX is a hit, and why not see if OO would help open some of these places back up.

From what I've read here, and elsewhere again, QX/AS was unable to make the aforementioned routes work on Q400's and when they Q200 went away, so did those cities. I agree running a one third full Q400 on any route is suicidal.
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BoeingGuy
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RE: What Other Flying Can OO Do For AS/QX?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:19 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 12):
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 11):
Our return flight via PDX/QX was downgauged to a CR2, though, so thankfully Alaska called today and "bumped" us to the

That's impossible, as QX never had any.

Sure it's possible. QX isn't doing the CRJ flying anymore. OO is.
 
Goldenshield
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RE: What Other Flying Can OO Do For AS/QX?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:32 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 13):
QQ's flying for AS/QX

There's that code again...

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 14):
QX isn't doing the CRJ flying anymore. OO is.
QX has never done CR2 flying, and OO has only done so early on until they could get the other CR7 online.

[Edited 2012-04-17 06:34:46]
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hatbutton
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RE: What Other Flying Can OO Do For AS/QX?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:42 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 15):
QX has never done CR2 flying, and OO has only done so early on until they could get the other CR7 online.

The CR2 still gets substituted every once in a while when necessary.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 13):
From what I've read here, and elsewhere again, QX/AS was unable to make the aforementioned routes work on Q400's and when they Q200 went away, so did those cities. I agree running a one third full Q400 on any route is suicidal.

I know what you're saying. I don't necessarily think those routes were profit makers even with the Q200. I think what did them in was finally moving to the Q400 and the losses doubled or tripled.
 
yeelep
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RE: What Other Flying Can OO Do For AS/QX?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:52 pm

I'm guessing he meant CR2 to PDX then Q400 to SEA.

Like hatbutton says, the CR2 is still substituted. In the past few months, i've seen them a couple of times overnighting in SEA on Horizon's ramp.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: What Other Flying Can OO Do For AS/QX?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:54 am

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 12):
That's impossible, as QX never had any.

Sorry I wasn't more clear. See:

Quoting yeelep (Reply 17):
I'm guessing he meant CR2 to PDX then Q400 to SEA.

Exactly.   I meant to say that the CR7 LGB-PDX (connecting to a QX DH4 to SEA) was downgraded to the CR2, so we are now going nonstop.

-Dave
-Dave
 
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RWA380
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RE: What Other Flying Can OO Do For AS/QX?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:50 am

So are these places doomed to driving sometimes 100's of miles to catch a plane someplace? I expect SeaPort to be gone from OTH as soon as the money runs out, and I'd like to see an airline like JT to start up again, covering the cities that have been dropped, tie in with AS and connect these places once again to PDX or SEA for connections.
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