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knope2001
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UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:09 pm

A number of posts in various threads have made passing comments about United's biggest markets, either UA-specific or in larger discussions of places like Denver and Chicago. So I did some playing with numbers and will post them below.

These are August 2011, UA+CO, domestic + international. Note that these stats are full-month actual operations divided by 31. So that means weekend schedule reductions and cancelations are factored into the average, and daily flights do not represent weekend peak.

total daily flights
610 iah
607 ord
440 den
439 ewr
295 sfo
287 iad
262 lax
127 cle

total daily passengers
46,274 ord
45,982 ewr
44,680 iah
34,027 den
27,929 sfo
22,770 lax
21,660 iad
7,704 cle

pax per departure
104.7 ewr
94.6 sfo
86.9 lax
77.3 den
76.2 ord
75.6 iad
73.3 iah
60.4 cle

international flights per day
88 ewr
74 iah
35 iad
30 ord
28 sfo
22 den
13 lax
6 cle

international passengers per day
11435 ewr
5002 iah
4618 iad
4617 sfo
4444 ord
1906 lax
1190 den
213 cle

domesitc flights per day
577 ord
536 iah
419 den
351 ewr
268 sfo
251 iad
249 lax
121 cle

domestic passengers per day
41829 ord
39678 iah
34546 ewr
32837 den
23312 sfo
20864 lax
17042 iad
7492 cle

breakdown between mainline, large regional (51-99) and smaller regional (50 or less) aircraft

based on passengers served
100+........51-99.....50 or less
82.5% ….. 07.3% ….. 10.3% ….. ewr
80.2% ….. 08.9% ….. 10.9% ….. sfo
72.9% ….. 14.7% ….. 12.4% ….. lax
67.2% ….. 07.9% ….. 24.9% ….. iah
62.8% ….. 18.4% ….. 18.7% ….. iad
62.4% ….. 16.1% ….. 21.4% ….. den
61.8% ….. 17.7% ….. 20.6% ….. ord
54.6% ….. 09.5% ….. 35.9% ….. cle

based on flights operated
100+........51-99.....50 or less
58.1% ….. 14.4% ….. 27.5% ….. ewr
49.2% ….. 14.5% ….. 36.2% ….. sfo
41.1% ….. 22.0% ….. 36.9% ….. lax
37.9% ….. 11.8% ….. 50.3% ….. iah
35.8% ….. 22.8% ….. 41.4% ….. den
35.1% ….. 24.3% ….. 40.7% ….. ord
33.4% ….. 25.5% ….. 41.1% ….. iad
26.6% ….. 10.3% ….. 63.1% ….. cle

I'm rather surprised to see ORD sneak ahead of IAH in some regards. Perhaps it's because a lot of Chicago's RJ flying has been upgraded to 51-99 seat category, while IAH still has an overwhelming diet of 50-seat in the regional fold.
 
klwright69
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:03 pm

Interesting...

Not surprisingly CLE is way at the bottom.

I am surprised pax per departure for ORD was not higher.
 
tommy767
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:07 pm

EWR takes number one in pax per plane, international flights, and international passengers per day. Wow.
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ordbosewr
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:42 pm

But IAH is the largest hub......   (sarcasm)

As with everything it is all about the SPIN a person puts on it.

this is great information and really tells a good story. Nice work

[Edited 2012-04-15 11:43:38]
 
gigneil
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:48 pm

What this does reinforce for me is that IAH is far from the most productive hub.

NS
 
UAL777UK
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:04 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Thread starter):

Thanks for posting this information.

So can someone please explain then how IAH is the biggest hub?
 
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kngkyle
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:07 pm

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 5):

It obviously depends on what determine 'biggest' to mean. Most Flights? IAH. Most Passengers? ORD. I personally see passengers as a better determinant of 'biggest', so in that case ORD is the biggest in my eyes.

[Edited 2012-04-15 12:07:23]
 
avi8
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:07 pm

I thought IAH had more daily flights. It's kind of dissapointing. Basically ORD and IAH are the same.
avi8

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SESGDL
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:22 pm

Where are these numbers from? Not saying this information is incorrect but UA today has significantly more flights in many of the markets than these numbers indicate. Also, those passenger statistics are considerably different than those that I have. From my info, IAH is the largest by daily flights, seats, and passengers carried by a significant margin.

Jeremy
 
AeroWesty
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:41 pm

Interesting analysis. What surprises me the most is how close together a lot of the numbers for SFO, LAX and IAD are. What wasn't surprising was that LAX is a clear outlier in those numbers for int'l pax and flights, as UA has drawn down LAX int'l flying significantly over the years.

Thanks for pulling this data together.
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atrude777
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:49 pm

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 8):
Where are these numbers from? Not saying this information is incorrect but UA today has significantly more flights in many of the markets than these numbers indicate. Also, those passenger statistics are considerably different than those that I have. From my info, IAH is the largest by daily flights, seats, and passengers carried by a significant margin.

The date is August 2011...so of course the numbers you have TODAY will be different from what is posted online there.


Very interesting to see there!

Alex
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SESGDL
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:45 pm

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 10):
The date is August 2011...so of course the numbers you have TODAY will be different from what is posted online there.

I know that, I was asking about the source of the data. From the stats I had for 2009/2010, IAH had nearly 70,000 daily seats by CO, ORD had similar numbers for UA; I find it hard to believe that number has fallen to less than 50,000, putting it in the same leagues as hubs like MSP, DTW, and ORD for AA. Also, for just today IAH has around 650 UA/UA Express flights, and it's April. August is peak flying season so that number of 610 daily flights also seems quite low. Where was this data obtained from because I don't believe it's correct.

Jeremy
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:00 pm

CLE also seems a little low at 127 daily flights...I always thought that number was around 200? if thats the case they have really fallen off a cliff there....
 
N766UA
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:27 pm

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 12):

CLE also seems a little low at 127 daily flights...I always thought that number was around 200? if thats the case they have really fallen off a cliff there....

The busiest days of the week are up around 200, but Saturdays, for example, are far less. Still 127 does seem low.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 1):
Not surprisingly CLE is way at the bottom.

What's your point? It's the smallest hub, of course it is. Why is that even worth saying unless you're just trying to crap on CLE again?
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LAXintl
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:38 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 9):
Interesting analysis. What surprises me the most is how close together a lot of the numbers for SFO, LAX and IAD are.

Keep in mind, each one is very different, and not really full hubs.

IAD essentially is only a 1/2 hub with hub activity during the afternoon/evening. Rather quiet rest of the day.
SFO is essentially a hub during the noon Asia rush, and large spoke/focus city rest of the day.
LAX is simply a huge spoke/focus city. Yes you can connect to Hawaii and intra-CA, but much of the flying is designed to support local demand, not connectivity.
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masseybrown
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:49 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 13):
[CLE's] busiest days of the week are up around 200, but Saturdays, for example, are far less. Still 127 does seem low.

127 seems low enough to question accuracy of the numbers. enilria gave 170 departures as the average daily number for 2012. I'd guess 2011 should be very close to that.
 
boeing773er
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:03 am

Quoting knope2001 (Thread starter):
127 cle

Doesn't US have more daily departures at DCA, one of their focus cities than UA does at CLE?

I think UA needs to introduce Focus Cities to their route network......
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codc10
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:44 am

Quoting knope2001 (Thread starter):

127 cle

That can't be right, even with day-of-week cancellations. CLE must keep an average of 170 UA/UAX departures per day in order to avoid contractual penalties with the City of Cleveland. Are you sure those numbers include former CO Connection operations (C5/3M)? That's the only explanation I can think of for the discrepancy.

All your other numbers appear to be good.
 
yeogeo
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:59 am

Nicely done, Knope. Saving this one for a reference   

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 1):
I am surprised pax per departure for ORD was not higher.

With 65% of departures at ORD in aircraft carrying 99 or less passengers? I'm not... and you can experience it in taxing around O'Hare any day: lots of activity and many, many RJ's.

yeo
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knope2001
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:25 am

The data comes from the T100's, information directly reported by the airlines to the DoT.

http://www.transtats.bts.gov/Tables....riers&DB_Short_Name=Air%20Carriers

Feel free to proof the data if you'd like. Be sure to use both the domestic segement and international segment tables, and pull August 2011. I used numbers for flights departing those cities (ORD, SFO, CLE, IAH, etc). If anything numbers might be a tad high because I didn't spend a ton of time trying to weed out things like if Skywest operated ORD-CVG for both UA* and DL*, the numbers are combined.

As I originally said, day of week reductions and flight cancelations bring the average down. CO* does tons of that in particular. When we hear of someone offering X flights per day, that's typcially weekday peak, not an average.

Here's the detail info on number of flights opreated from Cleveland for the entire month of August on UA/UA*/CO/CO*. Before anyone jumps in and says UA/CO did not fly CLE-DTW in August 2011 (for example) you must recognize that things like charters, repo flights, and diversions show up in these stats. So if a CO* EWR-DTW diverted to CLE because of T-storms, and then later flew onward from CLE to DTW, that shows up in the T100 stats alongside all the scheudled flights.

flts … per day …dest
001 ….. 0.0 ….. ABE
099 ….. 3.2 ….. ALB
118 ….. 3.8 ….. ATL
001 ….. 0.0 ….. AVL
003 ….. 0.1 ….. BDL
022 ….. 0.7 ….. BFD
083 ….. 2.7 ….. BOS
029 ….. 0.9 ….. BTV
027 ….. 0.9 ….. BUF
107 ….. 3.5 ….. BWI
111 ….. 3.6 ….. CLT
001 ….. 0.0 ….. CRW
006 ….. 0.2 ….. CUN
026 ….. 0.8 ….. CVG
054 ….. 1.7 ….. DAY
078 ….. 2.5 ….. DCA
118 ….. 3.8 ….. DEN
075 ….. 2.4 ….. DFW
003 ….. 0.1 ….. DTW
054 ….. 1.7 ….. DUJ
166 ….. 5.4 ….. EWR
053 ….. 1.7 ….. FKL
031 ….. 1.0 ….. FLL
052 ….. 1.7 ….. GRB
074 ….. 2.4 ….. GRR
030 ….. 1.0 ….. GSP
116 ….. 3.7 ….. IAD
187 ….. 6.0 ….. IAH
050 ….. 1.6 ….. IND
059 ….. 1.9 ….. JHW
087 ….. 2.8 ….. LAS
113 ….. 3.6 ….. LAX
130 ….. 4.2 ….. LGA
008 ….. 0.3 ….. LWB
104 ….. 3.4 ….. MCI
069 ….. 2.2 ….. MCO
001 ….. 0.0 ….. MDT
080 ….. 2.6 ….. MHT
011 ….. 0.4 ….. MIA
110 ….. 3.5 ….. MKE
027 ….. 0.9 ….. MSN
085 ….. 2.7 ….. MSP
002 ….. 0.1 ….. MSY
001 ….. 0.0 ….. OMA
324 ….. 10.5 ….. ORD
046 ….. 1.5 ….. ORF
028 ….. 0.9 ….. PBI
062 ….. 2.0 ….. PHL
030 ….. 1.0 ….. PHX
001 ….. 0.0 ….. PIT
108 ….. 3.5 ….. PKB
058 ….. 1.9 ….. PVD
024 ….. 0.8 ….. PWM
011 ….. 0.4 ….. RDU
077 ….. 2.5 ….. RIC
030 ….. 1.0 ….. RSW
074 ….. 2.4 ….. SDF
031 ….. 1.0 ….. SEA
059 ….. 1.9 ….. SFO
002 ….. 0.1 ….. SJU
076 ….. 2.5 ….. STL
029 ….. 0.9 ….. TPA
033 ….. 1.1 ….. TYS
083 ….. 2.7 ….. YUL
104 ….. 3.4 ….. YYZ

3952 total departures in August 2011 for UA / UA* / CO / CO*, divided by 31 days = 127.48 flights per day.

Again, feel free to go to the source DoT tables in the list listed if you disagree with the numbers.
 
FL787
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:58 am

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 19):

Does Chautaqua show up in that data? Seems like that could be what's missing since they fly mostly out of CLE for COEX.
 
coairman
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:20 am

Quoting knope2001 (Thread starter):
total daily flights
610 iah
607 ord
440 den
439 ewr
295 sfo
287 iad
262 lax
127 cle
Quoting knope2001 (Reply 19):
flts … per day …dest
001 ….. 0.0 ….. ABE
099 ….. 3.2 ….. ALB
118 ….. 3.8 ….. ATL
001 ….. 0.0 ….. AVL
003 ….. 0.1 ….. BDL
022 ….. 0.7 ….. BFD
083 ….. 2.7 ….. BOS
029 ….. 0.9 ….. BTV
027 ….. 0.9 ….. BUF
107 ….. 3.5 ….. BWI
111 ….. 3.6 ….. CLT
001 ….. 0.0 ….. CRW
006 ….. 0.2 ….. CUN
026 ….. 0.8 ….. CVG
054 ….. 1.7 ….. DAY
078 ….. 2.5 ….. DCA
118 ….. 3.8 ….. AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN
075 ….. 2.4 ….. DFW
003 ….. 0.1 ….. DTW
054 ….. 1.7 ….. DUJ
166 ….. 5.4 ….. EWR
053 ….. 1.7 ….. FKL
031 ….. 1.0 ….. FLL
052 ….. 1.7 ….. GRB
074 ….. 2.4 ….. GRR
030 ….. 1.0 ….. GSP
116 ….. 3.7 ….. IAD
187 ….. 6.0 ….. IAH
050 ….. 1.6 ….. IND
059 ….. 1.9 ….. JHW
087 ….. 2.8 ….. LAS
113 ….. 3.6 ….. LAX
130 ….. 4.2 ….. LGA
008 ….. 0.3 ….. LWB
104 ….. 3.4 ….. MCI
069 ….. 2.2 ….. MCO
001 ….. 0.0 ….. MDT
080 ….. 2.6 ….. MHT
011 ….. 0.4 ….. MIA
110 ….. 3.5 ….. MKE
027 ….. 0.9 ….. MSN
085 ….. 2.7 ….. MSP
002 ….. 0.1 ….. MSY
001 ….. 0.0 ….. OMA
324 ….. 10.5 ….. ORD
046 ….. 1.5 ….. ORF
028 ….. 0.9 ….. PBI
062 ….. 2.0 ….. PHL
030 ….. 1.0 ….. PHX
001 ….. 0.0 ….. PIT
108 ….. 3.5 ….. PKB
058 ….. 1.9 ….. PVD
024 ….. 0.8 ….. PWM
011 ….. 0.4 ….. RDU
077 ….. 2.5 ….. RIC
030 ….. 1.0 ….. RSW
074 ….. 2.4 ….. SDF
031 ….. 1.0 ….. SEA
059 ….. 1.9 ….. SFO
002 ….. 0.1 ….. SJU
076 ….. 2.5 ….. STL
029 ….. 0.9 ….. TPA
033 ….. 1.1 ….. TYS
083 ….. 2.7 ….. YUL
104 ….. 3.4 ….. UA / UA* / CO / CO*, divided by 31 days = 127.48 flights per day.

Again, feel free to go to the source DoT tables in the list listed if you disagree with the numbers.

YOUR NUMBERS ARE WRONG AT BOTH CLE AND LAX:

In CLE you are missing CommutAir which has a huge turboprop hub operating as United Express:

4 ERI Monday April 16,2012
3 PIT
3 MDT
4 SYR
4 BUF
3 ROC
2 IND (not including RJS)
2 SBN
2 GRR (not including 2 RJs)
3 FNT
3 CMH (not including 1 RJ)
2 CVG

CLE has around 180-200 flights a day. I know this is accurate as I have connections with UA CLE employees.

LAX has around 220 flights a day, NOT 260. I know this is accurate as I have direct sources at UA LAX which I am not at liberty to discuss.

Bottom Line: The information is wrong.....

[Edited 2012-04-15 23:22:18]

[Edited 2012-04-15 23:23:55]

[Edited 2012-04-15 23:28:25]
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LAXintl
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:38 am

Quoting Coairman (Reply 21):
LAX has around 220 flights a day, NOT 260. I know this accurate as I have direct sources at UA LAX which I am not at liberty to discuss.

For starters remember the OPer data is for August 2011 - a peak summer period.

But if you want current info, the LAX total is 209 departures for Monday April 16th. Nothing secret about that.
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kordcj
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:45 am

Quoting Coairman (Reply 21):

Did you not read his post? He specifically stated that his numbers were from August of 2011. You provided flights scheduled for tomorrow so I don't think the comparison is there considering the number of changes in scheduling that has taken place.

I'm not stating that his numbers are indeed correct or incorrect, but at least he provided his method and data to support his findings. Simply stating that you know someone on the inside with no proof to support the claim doesn't really prove that he is incorrect.
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coairman
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:58 am

Quoting kordcj (Reply 23):
Quoting Coairman (Reply 21):

Did you not read his post? He specifically stated that his numbers were from August of 2011. You provided flights scheduled for tomorrow so I don't think the comparison is there considering the number of changes in scheduling that has taken place.

I'm not stating that his numbers are indeed correct or incorrect, but at least he provided his method and data to support his findings. Simply stating that you know someone on the inside with no proof to support the claim doesn't really prove that he is incorrect.

I am sorry I am not getting my point across. I know that CLE had more than 120 flights a day last August. Thats all. I also was making a point that his last August stats didn't reflect Comutair flights, which I gave examples of how he is missing markets like CLE-SYR/ERI/SBN that were operating last August and are operating tomorrow morning.

[Edited 2012-04-16 00:03:04]

[Edited 2012-04-16 00:04:36]

CLE has remainded very stagnant departure wise in the 170's range since the massive downsizing in 2008.


[Edited 2012-04-16 00:07:56]

[Edited 2012-04-16 00:08:37]
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ADent
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:04 am

Maybe you can compare to the data in this thread: UA Summer 2011 Hub/Focus City Departure Breakdown (by FSDan Apr 17 2011 in Civil Aviation) which is based on June 30, 2011 data.

It lists 207 CLE flights.
 
thorntot
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:11 am

For August 2011, the original data set IS missing one RJ round-trip on Chautauqua and three Dash-8-200 Commutair round-trips between CLE and CMH. Again, begs the question, were all Continental, Continental Express, AND Continental Connection flights included in the original data set?

I'm not a CLE cheerleader, just looking for an accurate data set.
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knope2001
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:14 am

Quoting FL787 (Reply 20):

Does Chautaqua show up in that data? Seems like that could be what's missing since they fly mostly out of CLE for COEX.
Quoting Coairman (Reply 21):
In CLE you are missing CommutAir which has a huge turboprop hub operating as United Express:

You're correct -- looks like there's trouble with both CommutAir and Chautauqua numbers in the query I ran. I'm on vacation playing with this stuff and don't have any printed materials here to cross check anything at the moment.

Looking at CLE first, when I rerun with corrections, it comes to 181/day. That does make more sense, and when I see the cities C5 and RP bring to the table, it is clear they were missing even without having other material to cross check it with.

I'll see about taking a look at the other cities, and will figure out if we have similar issues elsehwere. Because the T100's are by operating carrier and not branded airline, it's tough to figure out who belongs with whom.
 
thorntot
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:50 am

If looking up by carrier, in August 2011, CLE had ops by Gulfstream, Colgan, CommutAir, Shuttle America, Chautauqua, TransStates, ExpressJet, SkyWest...all on behalf of United/Continental.

I'm curious to know if you'll be able to determine whether, for example, a given Shuttle flight was on behalf of US, DL, UA?
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knope2001
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:24 pm

Quoting thorntot (Reply 28):
I'm curious to know if you'll be able to determine whether, for example, a given Shuttle flight was on behalf of US, DL, UA?

There's no way to tell from the T100's -- hence I mentioned earlier that there can be issues of overcount in places where a regional serves multiple masters, such as ORD-CVG which may be Skywest as DL* or UA*. I don't think it's likely to be a large number because the non-hub airline (DL, in this case) does not operate many flights into the UA/CO hub (ORD), and what they do is spread among many airlines, not just Skywest (in this example.)

As I mentioned earlier, I'll take a closer look to see if I have regionals missing like I did with CLE -- I don't think I had Chautauqua or CommuteAir anyplace so that might mean more revisions than just Cleveland. In the mean time here's a quick list of the included airlines at each of the eight cities. If anyone sees something they are pretty sure is missing, please chime in:

Denver
united
continental
skywest
expressjet
gojet
shuttle america

Chicago
united
continental
skywest
expressjet
gojet
colgan
mesa
shuttle america
transtates

Dulles
united
continental
skywest
expressjet
gojet
colgan
mesa
shuttle america
transtates

Houston
continental
united
skywest
expressjet
colgan
shuttle america

San Francisco
united
continental
skywest

Newark
continental
united
expressjet
gojet
shuttle america

Cleveland (including corrections)
united
continental
skywest
expressjet
colgan
chatauqua
gulfstream
commutair

LAX
united
continental
skywest
 
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knope2001
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:31 pm

Quoting thorntot (Reply 28):
If looking up by carrier, in August 2011, CLE had ops by Gulfstream, Colgan, CommutAir, Shuttle America, Chautauqua, TransStates, ExpressJet, SkyWest...all on behalf of United/Continental.

There don't appear to be any Shuttle America flights at CLE in August 2011.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 11):
I know that, I was asking about the source of the data. From the stats I had for 2009/2010, IAH had nearly 70,000 daily seats by CO, ORD had similar numbers for UA; I find it hard to believe that number has fallen to less than 50,000,

You're talking capacity, while these numbers are passengers. If you scale back a few percentage points (since airlines did reduce in recent years) and then factor in that they don't fly at 100% load factor, you can get to 50k or less fairly easily.
 
tommy767
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:44 pm

I don't even know why we're comparing August 2011 when the two carriers were still operating seperately. We should have one for Summer 2012 as the cross fleeting is in full swing.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
chopchop767
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:45 pm

Firstly, great work crunching the numbers Knope!

Quoting Boeing773ER (Reply 16):
I think UA needs to introduce Focus Cities to their route network......

With UA's hubs in EWR, IAD, CLE, ORD, IAH, DEN, LAX, SFO, GUM and more or less, NRT; I don't think they need any focus cities. DCA, for example, is served by the major UA hubs already, as is BOS. Heading west, SEA has flights to non-hubs (PDX and ANC) as well as all of the other hubs. I guess my point is, with so many hubs, UA already has some de facto focus cities.
this year: nap, lgw, fra, dub, fco, add, jib, muc, iad, sea, dca, bos, cdg, ist, bah, prg, ord, hsv, cmn
 
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STT757
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:08 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 29):
Newark
continental
united
expressjet
gojet
shuttle america

EWR also has;

Colgan (Q400s)
Commutair (DH8-200s, Q300s)
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
hohd
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:08 pm

This data can provide fuel for Southwest to start international operations in HOU. UA has been constantly bombarding Houston area stating that it is the largest hub with the largest passenger base. Now that it is no longer the case, Southwest can now start the international operations very soon since the Houston city council will approve the "building permit" for Southwest.
 
SESGDL
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:24 pm

Quoting ADent (Reply 25):
Maybe you can compare to the data in this thread: UA Summer 2011 Hub/Focus City Departure Breakdown (by FSDan Apr 17 2011 in Civil Aviation) which is based on June 30, 2011 data.

These figures are more accurate and are similar to the numbers I had from that same period. In the thread from last summer, IAH was the largest hub by nearly every metric, with ORD in second place.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 30):

You're talking capacity, while these numbers are passengers. If you scale back a few percentage points (since airlines did reduce in recent years) and then factor in that they don't fly at 100% load factor, you can get to 50k or less fairly easily.

That would be true if last summer the airlines weren't running load factors close to 90%, but they were. While daily seats and passengers carried aren't the same, for any time post-9/11 they should be pretty close; airlines have been close to capacity on flights for quite a while.

Jeremy
 
2travel2know2
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:25 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Thread starter):
international flights per day
...
6 cle

Where does UA fly international non-stop daily from CLE?
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
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STT757
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:32 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 36):
Where does UA fly international non-stop daily from CLE?

Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, Quebec City (seasonal), Cancun and another sunny Mexico/Caribbean destination?
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:56 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 19):
Again, feel free to go to the source DoT tables in the list listed if you disagree with the numbers.
Quoting Coairman (Reply 21):
YOUR NUMBERS ARE WRONG AT BOTH CLE AND LAX:
Quoting knope2001 (Thread starter):
total daily flights
610 iah
607 ord
440 den
439 ewr
295 sfo
287 iad
262 lax
127 cle

total daily passengers
46,274 ord
45,982 ewr
44,680 iah
34,027 den
27,929 sfo
22,770 lax
21,660 iad
7,704 cle

I'm not going to provide you with the actual numbers, but I will state that the ordering of the number of departures and daily passengers is not actually as provided here.

Departures you've just got IAD and SFO switched in the order.

Passengers actually goes IAH, ORD, EWR, DEN, SFO, IAD, LAX, CLE
 
captainstefan
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:24 pm

Quoting kngkyle (Reply 6):

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 5):

It obviously depends on what determine 'biggest' to mean.

Biggest now means total acreage occupied by the airport  
Long Live the Tulip!
 
delta2ual
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:32 pm

One thing to remember about the high % of RJ flights: those flights tend to be shorter than mainline so there will be more of them. Still, it's always strange to see so many RJ's at a hub like ORD where once there was so much mainline.
From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
 
Caspian27
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:36 pm

Quoting captainstefan (Reply 39):


Well DEN is the largest UA hub then!  
Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
 
masseybrown
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:37 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 29):
As I mentioned earlier, I'll take a closer look to see if I have regionals missing like I did with CLE -- I don't think I had Chautauqua or CommuteAir anyplace so that might mean more revisions than just Cleveland.

You point out what I consider a fault in the DoT/BTS numbers. There should be brand segregation, in addition to operator segregation in the numbers. Another problem you will have counting by operator is that Chautauqua, for example, has operated out of CLE for more than one major carrier simultaneously.

Thanks for your dog work in producing the data extracts - they're always more fun than opinions..
 
N766UA
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:20 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 37):
Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, Quebec City (seasonal), Cancun and another sunny Mexico/Caribbean destination?

Nassau.
This Website Censors Me
 
tommy767
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:27 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 37):

Seasonal San Juan as well
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
mogandoCI
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:30 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 44):
Seasonal San Juan as well

The question was about CLE's international departures. Shouldn't SJU be lumped under domestic ?
 
N766UA
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:31 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 44):
Seasonal San Juan as well

SJU is domestic.
This Website Censors Me
 
gigneil
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:33 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 27):
I'm on vacation playing with this stuff and don't have any printed materials here to cross check anything at the moment.

Quite the vacation. GO OUTSIDE.  
Quoting hohd (Reply 34):
This data can provide fuel for Southwest to start international operations in HOU. UA has been constantly bombarding Houston area stating that it is the largest hub with the largest passenger base. Now that it is no longer the case, Southwest can now start the international operations very soon since the Houston city council will approve the "building permit" for Southwest.

Right.

NS
 
IAHWorldflyer
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:41 pm

[quote=knope2001,reply=0]international flights per day
88 ewr
74 iah
35 iad
30 ord
28 sfo


international passengers per day
11435 ewr
5002 iah
4618 iad
4617 sfo

First, thanks for all the data crunching!
I think it's interesting to see how the number of international passengers at EWR is more than double that of IAH, even though the flight ops are not so far apart. All that flying of E145's to every landing strip in Mexico certainly brings down those numbers when you compare it to the 757's and better they are flying across the Atlantic from EWR!
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA+CO Stats Focus City Stats 8/2011

Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:02 pm

Quoting IAHworldflyer (Reply 48):
I think it's interesting to see how the number of international passengers at EWR is more than double that of IAH, even though the flight ops are not so far apart. All that flying of E145's to every landing strip in Mexico certainly brings down those numbers when you compare it to the 757's and better they are flying across the Atlantic from EWR!

Don't believe everything you read. Given that we've already talked about the flaws in the DOT reporting I can tell you the actuals vary significantly from those figures. IAH actually has more INTL dep than EWR, think about their Mexico Operation...

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