D L X
Topic Author
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Strange Approach To DCA

Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:08 pm

I was at the baseball game today, when a US Airways A319 flew over the park, coming from the NE. The ballpark is about a mile south of the Capitol, which I know is a restricted flying zone.

When I got home, I found this flight path on flightaware.com:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AWE2037

So, is this a violation of DC airspace? A bunch of other fans noticed the plane and showed their concern as well. Any thoughts?
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: Strange Approach To DCA

Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:17 pm

It looks like he landed on 22... never seen someone do that.
 
plateman
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RE: Strange Approach To DCA

Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:21 pm

I was biking along the Potomac today and they were doing test flights of Air Force white top copters ... they were flying real low along the river all day ... I saw planes on river visual, but maybe that had something to do it
"Explore. Dream. Discover." -Mark Twain
 
wagz
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RE: Strange Approach To DCA

Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:52 pm

If you zoom in on the flightaware track and switch to sectional view, it appears they skirted just southeast around P56.
I think Big Foot is blurry, Its not the photographers fault. Theres a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside
 
c680
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RE: Strange Approach To DCA

Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:17 am

I used to fly that approach to Rwy 22 all the time, although it was before 9/11 and it was mainly used for turboprops. Its been along time, but I think it was direct KRANT then follow the Annacostia visual to 22. If he was in an A319, I can understand why he was close to the ball park. The left hand turn to 22 was real tight (and fun) so I would want to be as far north as I could be to allow as much space for the turn as possible. Even then, your time lined up for final is measured in seconds.
My happy place is FL470 - what's yours?
 
washingtonian
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RE: Strange Approach To DCA

Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:56 am

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 1):
It looks like he landed on 22... never seen someone do that.

Me neither. Why would an A-319 land on 22???
 
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Amwest2United
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RE: Strange Approach To DCA

Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:11 am

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 1):
It looks like he landed on 22...

Maybe it was a visual to 22 Circle to land 19. I have seen that before on the Props and RJ's.

[Edited 2012-04-15 18:13:30]
Life is what happens to you while you making plans to live it!
 
D L X
Topic Author
Posts: 11655
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: Strange Approach To DCA

Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:13 am

Looking at the landings just prior and just after this one, it appears that this was the first flight that landed to the south after the flow had been to the north.

Another poster has also started a thread on this, so apparently, this flight startled more than just myself.
 
gigneil
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RE: Strange Approach To DCA

Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:32 am

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 1):
It looks like he landed on 22... never seen someone do that.

I have. Usually an RJ, never an A319.

Can you actually approach the airport from the East?

NS
 
BigSaabowski
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RE: Strange Approach To DCA

Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:46 am

Quoting amwest2united (Reply 6):

Maybe it was a visual to 22 Circle to land 19. I have seen that before on the Props and RJ's.

He did land on 19. You can listen to the ATC audio on LIVEATC by pulling up the 1830z archive for today and going to the 29:30 mark. He was cleared for the visual 19 and told to follow the Anacostia and avoid P-56.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 8):

Can you actually approach the airport from the East?

Yes. The Anacostia approach was used much more often when there were no restrictions on General Aviation into DCA. The airlines also occasionally came in that way.
 
flymia
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RE: Strange Approach To DCA

Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:52 am

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 5):
Me neither. Why would an A-319 land on 22???

I have seen props land on 22 but never a mainline jet. Never mind, the plane landed on 19. As another thread stated:

Quoting newyork355 (Thread starter):
My friends and I were on my roof today in downtown DC and saw the oddest thing ever; an aircraft was approaching (and subsequently landed) on runway 19 at DCA but did not approach via the Potomac, but appeared to approach from the NE, over flying SW DC before making a sharp left and safely landing. Is this approach normal? I had never seen this before. Also, I flew into DC on a US Airways A319 and landed on runway 15 a couple of weeks ago. I never knew the larger commercial jets that flew into DCA used these smaller runways. Any thoughts?
Odd Approach To Runway 19 @ DCA (by newyork355 Apr 15 2012 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2012-04-15 18:55:12]
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
dispatchguy
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RE: Strange Approach To DCA

Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:59 am

Quoting plateman (Reply 2):
Air Force white top copters

The Air Force doesnt have White Tops, thats the Marines of HMX-1
Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
 
plateman
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RE: Strange Approach To DCA

Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:03 am

Quoting dispatchguy (Reply 11):
Quoting dispatchguy (Reply 11):
The Air Force doesnt have White Tops, thats the Marines of HMX-1

You my friend are correct, apologies for the mistake. Still an awesome sight to see ... they were doing landing and take-offs at Bolling AFB --- and also flying up the Potomac
"Explore. Dream. Discover." -Mark Twain
 
D L X
Topic Author
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RE: Strange Approach To DCA

Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:49 pm

Quoting BigSaabowski (Reply 9):
He was cleared for the visual 19 and told to follow the Anacostia and avoid P-56.

Well, he certainly was well off the Anacostia by the time he got to the stadium. The stadium sits at the Anacostia near the tidal basin. I was sitting with my back to the Anacostia, so he had to have been at least a half mile off of it. He flew between the stadium and the Capitol.

I assumed that he was heading to the 22, so I'm pretty surprised that he made the full turn to 19. Must have been the best view EVER for the passengers!
 
washingtonian
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RE: Strange Approach To DCA

Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:57 pm

I'd still like to know why this happened. Why just for one flight?!!
 
BigSaabowski
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RE: Strange Approach To DCA

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:57 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 13):
Well, he certainly was well off the Anacostia by the time he got to the stadium. The stadium sits at the Anacostia near the tidal basin. I was sitting with my back to the Anacostia, so he had to have been at least a half mile off of it. He flew between the stadium and the Capitol.

There is no way to follow the Anacostia all the way to 19 and still have any semblance of a stabilized approach . Once you get to RFK, you can just follow 395 (or stay just slightly south of it) all the way to the Potomac. That keeps you clear of P-56.
 
Dash8Driver16
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RE: Strange Approach To DCA

Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:15 pm

That looks like a pretty common Approach to 33. I fly that one all the time although usually they keep you a little farther out. fly you south to the bridge turn you around for 33. I have seen 319, 170/175 all version of CRJ and EMB as well as dash's and SAAB's land there. its a pretty awesome approach but I like coming into 15 better you can usually get off before the intersection with 1/19.
 
usafret
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RE: Strange Approach To DCA

Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:56 pm

The Air Force most certainly have White Tops, they are UH-1Ns out of Andrews, blue body, gold stripe, white top, upgraded UH-1s and they fly the river all the time and do DV runs between Pentagon, Bolling and Andrews. I've flown on one as an incentive. I'm a retired Lt Col with 8 years in the Pentagon on two tours. Other than ICBM missile field UH-1Ns (all gray), Andrews has a few UH-1N DV models still flying.
 
LuisKMIA
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RE: Strange Approach To DCA

Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:53 pm

No unusual, but I've never seen anything bigger than an E-Jet perform it.
 
panova98
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RE: Strange Approach To DCA

Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:55 pm

Probably unrelated, but there have been various military fighters/helicopters in and around National this past week of so, apparently scouting/photographing the route for NASA's 747 hauling the Space Shuttle Discovery on its back to the Air and Space museum at Dulles, tomorrow, Tuesday. Maybe Sunday's patterns at National were affected.

As I understand it, the 747 is scheduled to fly first over Dulles, then come down the river (which way, I don't know) then do a low-level flyover of the Mall, then back to Dulles to land. This is scheduled between 10 and 11 am.

National landing patterns are always subject to the President helicoptering in and out of the White House and special fly-overs for Arlington Cemetery burials. Serveral years ago, parked at Graveley Point, I watched a B-52 come across the River from Andrews and do a beautiful, fairly low-level pass over the Cemetery for the funeral of a VietNam-era B-52 pilot. Very impressive!
 
eastern747
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RE: Strange Approach To DCA

Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:48 pm

When I started with Eastern it was at DCA, on the ticket counter. The backup shuttle aircraft were Electras having replaced the Connies. I missed flying a Connie by a year or so. CRAP! When I rode the shuttle sometimes we would land on the cross runway coming over the AFB. It use to scare me because I knew it wasn't a long runway and we generally went right to the end. When we landed and the crew reversed the props, the plane shook like it would fall apart. I never liked that aircraft. Four big noisy dirty motors. BTW. I once saw the aircraft used for AF1 land at DCA. Don't know the reason, but there she was.(707)
 
c680
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RE: Strange Approach To DCA

Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:14 pm

Quoting BigSaabowski (Reply 15):
There is no way to follow the Anacostia all the way to 19 and still have any semblance of a stabilized approach



Welcome to Washington National.

I've had controllers switch me from Rwy 15 to Rwy 22 on a one mile final.
I've had folks ignore LAHSO and stop in the middle of the intersection when I was in the flare for Rwy 22.
I've done more go-around because folks couldn't clear Rwy 18/36 (now Rwy 1/19) than I can count.

I've also flown the Annacostia approach to Rwy 22, circle Rwy 19. Its a fun, challenging approach that never felt unsafe.

For folks who do most of their flying out of meg hubs with approaches that start 4 states away, 10,000 foot runways and taxi charts that fold out like an accordion, DCA is a nightmare. But if you have good piloting skills, and you can react to changes quickly, DCA is a challenge in a good way. The controllers are some of the best in the country, and they regularly put 10 pounds of potatoes in a 5 pound sack.

Stabilized approach? Most of the time, yes. Just be ready for the unexpected. DCA keeps you on the edge of your seat, and alert. To me, that makes it very safe.
My happy place is FL470 - what's yours?
 
Boeing727
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RE: Strange Approach To DCA

Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:27 pm

Quoting plateman (Reply 2):
It looks like he landed on 22... never seen someone do that.

I have flown river visual circle to land 22 back in 2006 in an EMB-145...a rather rare occasion, but it does happen.

Boeing727

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