hoons90
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Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:30 am

Came across something quite interesting (Sorry, links are in Korean):

https://twitter.com/#!/vision_airlines

http://transcosmos.kr/bbs/home/home/doc.php?doc=7

http://www.etoday.co.kr/news/section...w.php?TM=news&SM=2312&idxno=552422

It appears that Vision Airlines plans to operate a 3x weekly LAX-SEA-ICN service starting later this month using 767-200ERs. I've tried hard to find an English language source for this information to no avail. Vision Airlines appears to have also set up a Korean-language twitter account.

I am guessing that a tour operator of some sort is chartering or wet-leasing the aircraft from Vision, but that is just a guess.

I'm a bit skeptical about this, hence the question mark in the thread title. Please let me know if you have any more information about this!
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wedgetail737
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:49 am

Vision with a 767-200ER's? Are the 767-200ER's going to be in a Premium class? Many Koreans book their flights via Korean travel agencies. Both SoCal and Seattle have very large Korean populations. It would be interest to see, but I'm skeptical as well.
 
dlramp4life
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:13 am

Could be a second coming for VS...Like Omni from LAS-HNL
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IndianicWorld
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:19 am

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 2):
Could be a second coming for VS

Not sure why VS needs a 2nd coming, seeing as thats Virgin Atlantic  

As for Vision, this would be a very interesting route choice, but frankly can not see it occuring.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:58 am

There is so much competition already on both LAX-ICN and SEA-ICN. Both Korean and Asiana serve those routes nonstop.
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cargolex
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:01 am

Quoting HOONS90 (Thread starter):

It appears that Vision Airlines plans to operate a 3x weekly LAX-SEA-ICN service starting later this month using 767-200ERs.

I'd love to see a Vision 767 at SEA, but in all honesty I'm very skeptical. Up against KE and OZ, I can't see why anyone would launch a service like this. Yeah, the price is much lower than either of those (it would have to be), but SEA-ICN is a market that is well served, and certainly LAX-ICN is as well, with one more option (TG) coming soon.

That doesn't look like a terribly fun timetable either, honestly.

Also, since Vision only has one 762ER (N766VA, as far as I can tell), how will they run this service?

EDIT: I see the ex-UA 762s are converted to ER spec, so strike that last comment.

[Edited 2012-04-17 23:33:32]
 
fly2yyz
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:08 am

Well I'm certain that the tour operator or company that chartered Vision wanted this to be the routing unfortunately. Looking at the timetable, I cringe! I know I wouldn't to land that late in SEA. Also looking at the prices, its nothing spectacular either. Lets see if this gets off the ground.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:24 am

Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 6):
I know I wouldn't to land that late in SEA.

The arrival time from ICN to SEA looks reasonable enough, 5am. The departure back to ICN departs at 3am, but BR has had a flight that departs SEA in the middle of the night seemingly forever. Currently BR25 departs at 1:50am for TPE.
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gunsontheroof
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:13 am

I can't imagine that this is going anywhere. Both markets are well-served and I can't imagine why anyone in L.A. would purchase a fare with an unproven carrier (with a stop at SEA) when established options are available. I'd love to see some new metal in the sky around SEA (not that we've had any lack of it in the last decade or so...), but I'm not holding my breath on this one...seems like a tall order for a minor league airline with only two 762s to make work.
 
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RWA380
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:03 am

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 8):
I can't imagine that this is going anywhere. Both markets are well-served and I can't imagine why anyone in L.A. would purchase a fare with an unproven carrier (with a stop at SEA)

MP did a pretty good job doing exactly the same thing at times, SEA-AMS flights often originated in OAK or LAX, they also used 763's for a long time, a few unremarkable seats up front called Star Class, a definite Y heavy operation. I will say in the two times I took MP SEA-AMS the flights were rather light, albeit in early May (beginning of their seasonal service) but on return into SEA the plane really cleared out, as OAK or LAX pax's didn't have to clear customs 'til their destination.
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Airport
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:45 pm

Very interesting. I'd buy a ticket on the SEA-LAX sector just for the experience of flying a 767-200 on that route again. Plus I've seen some great fare deals on Vision before.
 
Flighty
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:58 pm

You can't buy fuel at a discount. Pacific 762ER can't compete on price with a 773ER. At least I am not seeing how you fill the tanks and make money on economy fares -- unless it is premium class effort catering to status-conscious affluent Koreans and Korea Americans. Arguably there is a profit opportunity there, although I don't know the scope of it.
 
crj200faguy
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:09 pm

You mean their genius idea of transforming VPS into the next great tourist destination hasn't panned out? Now they are going to try to fly to Asia?
 
sunking737
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:31 pm

Why cut down Vision?? All they are doing is flying some charters.
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hp2us
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:16 pm

Maxjet had a similar idea right before going under.
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beau222
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:11 pm

Quoting crj200faguy (Reply 12):
You mean their genius idea of transforming VPS into the next great tourist destination hasn't panned out? Now they are going to try to fly to Asia?

And they still owe a large debt for not paying the Airport User Fees here in VPS before they skipped out.
 
blueflyer
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:59 pm

Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 6):

Well I'm certain that the tour operator or company that chartered Vision wanted this to be the routing unfortunately
Quoting sunking737 (Reply 13):
Why cut down Vision?

Because it doesn't look as though some travel operator hired Vision to run a bunch of charters. It looks as though Vision set up an office in Korea to sell tickets on its flights...
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crj200faguy
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:31 pm

Quoting hp2us (Reply 14):
Maxjet had a similar idea right before going under.

Ah Maxjet, I flew them once June 2005. I knew they wouldn't last long. Severely inferior product than the people they were trying to steal business from.
 
comair25
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:41 pm

What a horrible business model this company has. Fly a route for a couple months then dump it. They seem to be quite fond of this. Same thing happened to LIT not long ago.
 
SEA
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:59 pm

I love early-morning or late-night departures from SEA. It's like you own the whole airport  
 
Context
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:35 am

Competing on price alone is never a good strategy and a poor marketing method.

Based on the Port of Seattle's January "Total passengers by Airline" report (includes both enplanements and deplanements) Asiana and Korean Aire lost 8.9% and 4.08% of traffic YOY respectively. Asiana has trimmed capacity (starting when I'm not sure) by introducing the A333 on SEA-ICN which represents a 6.5% decrease in capacity. This may better match the market but it hardly makes space for a new player in the market. It seems the only way Vision could eek out a living would be to undercut competition by price, it seems they would have very little to offer in the way of value-adds such as FFPs or meaningful premium products. I worry not only for Vision but for the health of the route in Seattle.

PS — I have a message in at the public records office to try and get 2012 monthly reports, I'll update as info is available.
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:32 am

Quoting context (Reply 20):
Asiana has trimmed capacity (starting when I'm not sure) by introducing the A333 on SEA-ICN which represents a 6.5% decrease in capacity. This may better match the market but it hardly makes space for a new player in the market.

Pretty sure that was sometime in October or November, possibly earlier. I was surprised to see an OZ A333 fly over my place one day and figured it was a sub, but it kept on coming...we really have a nice stable of A333s going here at SEA these days.

Quoting context (Reply 20):
I worry not only for Vision but for the health of the route in Seattle.

January's not the best month to gauge the health of any route at SEA (and didn't both carriers add frequencies in the last year?), but I agree that the numbers don't give much reason to think there's room for another carrier on SEA-ICN. KE and OZ should both have nice summer seasons on the route.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:36 am

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 21):
I was surprised to see an OZ A333 fly over my place one day and figured it was a sub, but it kept on coming...we really have a nice stable of A333s going here at SEA these days.

The OZ A333 was a downgrade from a 777-200ER in terms of equipment, but I think the OZ flight operates daily. KE flew their A332's during the Fall and Winter. However, the aircraft is back to being a 777-200ER.
 
N770WD
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:30 am

Quoting hp2us (Reply 14):
Maxjet had a similar idea right before going under.

Kind of. MAXjet applied for LAX-SEA-PVG under the DOT China route allocation in mid-2007, to start service in 2009. China was capacity constrained with limited competition, particularly for business class seats. Very different from SEA-ICN. DOT granted the authority to US Airways for PHL-PEK, which of course never flew it. The way the DOT process worked, showing interest in markets (even with a low chance of winning) was important for future proceedings.

Quoting crj200faguy (Reply 17):
Ah Maxjet, I flew them once June 2005. I knew they wouldn't last long. Severely inferior product than the people they were trying to steal business from.

Must have been an interesting trip, since MAXjet started ops in November 2005. The product was never positioned to be equal to the flat-bed business class products that cost a multiple of the MAXjet fare. That was Eos. The MAXjet model was less than daily service, long-haul routes, and a premium leisure focus. Silverjet was in between MAXjet and Eos, priced lower than Eos but with more of a business mix than MAXjet. None of the three survived the economic downturn and fuel prices, with all folding within five months of each other.
 
anonms
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:51 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 7):
The arrival time from ICN to SEA looks reasonable enough, 5am. The departure back to ICN departs at 3am, but BR has had a flight that departs SEA in the middle of the night seemingly forever. Currently BR25 departs at 1:50am for TPE.

A lot of TPAC flights depart for Asia around then because that's probably the best timing: you end up landing in Asia between 5 and 7 in the morning.
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cargolex
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:14 pm

Quoting anonms (Reply 24):
A lot of TPAC flights depart for Asia around then because that's probably the best timing: you end up landing in Asia between 5 and 7 in the morning.

BR 25 is essnetially the only flight going out at that time from SEA, international or otherwise, except for the occasional cargo flight. SEA is deserted at that time of night.

The other transpac flights from SEA leave in a huge uniform bank between 12:15 and 2:00 pm PT. In fact, most of the Europe service leaves at this time as well (except for BA).
 
anonms
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:15 pm

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 25):
BR 25 is essnetially the only flight going out at that time from SEA, international or otherwise, except for the occasional cargo flight. SEA is deserted at that time of night.

BR and CI also operate "midnight"-ish flights from SFO and LAX (so does the LAX-SEA leg which continues to ICN that Vision's planning), thought both do offer afternoon flights out of LAX and, in the case of BR only, out of SFO as well. Not sure about other airlines, but at least my impression was it's a more common departure window for TPAC flights.
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atrude777
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:17 pm

STRAIGHT FROM VISION AIRLINES ON THEIR FACEBOOK PAGE...

Vision Airlines
2 hours ago
Good Afternoon Folks! Please note that Vision Airlines has no involvement with a flight program to Korea. Our name is being used though, so please beware! We have other big news coming soon!


Not sure what to say but take it from them...

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
GSPSPOT
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:28 pm

Man, Vision is just throwing ANYTHING at the wall to see if it'll stick!! Good luck to them, but I don't have much confidence in anything they attempt after the recent fiasco in the Southeast US.
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hoons90
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:29 pm

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 27):
STRAIGHT FROM VISION AIRLINES ON THEIR FACEBOOK PAGE...

Vision Airlines
2 hours ago
Good Afternoon Folks! Please note that Vision Airlines has no involvement with a flight program to Korea. Our name is being used though, so please beware! We have other big news coming soon!

Not sure what to say but take it from them...

Alex

Wow. Guess my skepticism and suspicion about this turned out to be right...Thanks!

Sounds like a total scam to me... The Twitter page has also been removed!

[Edited 2012-04-19 11:37:31]
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
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b727fa
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:47 pm

Interestingly enough, a friend of mine is a 767 CA on for Vision and they'd been hearing the same thing, charts and all. But he was saying the biggest issue they were having was there are so few crews left they didn't know how to staff it and THAT'S why they're pulling the plug now. Who knows...
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crj200faguy
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:53 am

Quoting N770WD (Reply 23):
Must have been an interesting trip, since MAXjet started ops in November 2005. The product was never positioned to be equal to the flat-bed business class products that cost a multiple of the MAXjet fare. That was Eos. The MAXjet model was less than daily service, long-haul routes, and a premium leisure focus. Silverjet was in between MAXjet and Eos, priced lower than Eos but with more of a business mix than MAXjet. None of the three survived the economic downturn and fuel prices, with all folding within five months of each other.

You are correct. I meant June 2006. I should have remembered it was during the World Cup.
 
flyboi4life
Posts: 34
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:57 pm

Seems like the first link with the time table has been removed... If only I knew Korean
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hoons90
Posts: 3159
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:43 am

Quoting flyboi4life (Reply 32):
Seems like the first link with the time table has been removed... If only I knew Korean

It says that due to high traffic volume, the website is temporarily disabled.
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:29 pm

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 25):
The other transpac flights from SEA leave in a huge uniform bank between 12:15 and 2:00 pm PT. In fact, most of the Europe service leaves at this time as well (except for BA).

I believe DL has a night-time departure to PEK from SEA. Also, BA isn't the only Europe service aligned with BA...you also have FI and Condor (during the summer). EK to Dubai is in between the two "major" international ops at the S Concourse. Finally, I think BR arrives at SEA in the evening. BR used to fly to EWR and hence the wee-hour departure back to TPE. But it essentially RON's here now.
 
HeeseokKoo
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:14 am

No surprising to anyone here. It's gone. The article (in Korean) says there was full refund for all purchases.

http://traveltimes.co.kr/news/news_t...category=&code=&find=&f_opt=&seq=2
 
yeelep
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RE: Vision Airlines To Start LAX-SEA-ICN?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:54 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 34):
Finally, I think BR arrives at SEA in the evening. BR used to fly to EWR and hence the wee-hour departure back to TPE. But it essentially RON's here now.

The BR 777 is still leaving around 2am. I'm over at the AS hangar and there's no mistaking the sound of the GE-90's during start up.

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