hatbutton
Topic Author
Posts: 275
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:39 am

AS Ending ADK. KS Submits Bid.

Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:38 pm

http://kucb.org/news/article/penair-...ests-34m-subsidy-for-adak-flights/

Penair is proposing an EAS subsidy request of $3.4m to serve ADK 4 times weekly from ANC. That's more than double the subsidy currently given to AS's two times weekly service with the 737-400 combi.

I love flying just as much as anyone on here, but ANC-ADK is an awful long flight for a Saab. I imagine it will be a one stop through DUT? The article doesn't give any details on that though. ANC-DUT is blocked at 3 hours on the Saab already. ANC-ADK is 1.5 times the distance as ANC-DUT.

AS said that they have been losing money even with the subsidy and even Penair admits that when they put in their own proposal 2 years ago, they would have lost money at the revenue projections they came up with.

If awarded, this would make it the second most expensive subsidy in the EAS program, right behind their newly awarded service from PQI-BOS.
 
thegoldenargosy
Posts: 506
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:14 am

RE: AS Ending ADK. KS Submits Bid.

Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:30 pm

According to Great Circle Mapper the distance between ANC & ADK is 1,192 miles . The max range of a Saab 340 is 1,076 miles. So this flight must have to stop somewhere. I love the Saab but I'm not sure I'd want to spend 3hrs in that cabin with it's rustic lavatory.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: AS Ending ADK. KS Submits Bid.

Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:46 pm

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 1):
I'm not sure I'd want to spend 3hrs in that cabin with it's rustic lavatory.

How many times would you need to use the toilet on a 3-hour sector?!
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
BD338
Posts: 576
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RE: AS Ending ADK. KS Submits Bid.

Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:28 pm

Last year had a total of ~3700 passengers (enplane/deplane) at ADK. Around 19-20 per flight on average. Assuming the passenger levels continue, and they get the $3.4M, that's around $920 per passenger one-way subsidy. Wow.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: AS Ending ADK. KS Submits Bid.

Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:35 pm

Quoting hatbutton (Thread starter):
AS said that they have been losing money even with the subsidy and even Penair admits that when they put in their own proposal 2 years ago, they would have lost money at the revenue projections they came up with.

What would be the solution to keep ADK running for either airline? Jack up the fares and cargo prices?? If ADK loses service, they are doomed which those people would have no choice but to turn ADK into a ghost town.

Who else flies into ADK? I'm sure some GA aircraft do.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: AS Ending ADK. KS Submits Bid.

Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:32 pm

That's too bad. I remember when AS started ADK. They started it about the same time they started MCO, so the CEO's article at the front of AS's in-flight magazine had a bit about how diverse their expansion is. He contrasted how incredibly different places MCO and ADK are, yet both are the newest additions to AS's route map.
 
JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: AS Ending ADK. KS Submits Bid.

Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:42 pm

Quoting BD338 (Reply 3):
that's around $920 per passenger one-way subsidy

While that is really high, it is probably important to remember that one of the original intents of EAS was to serve in places like Alaska with so many remote communities. I was just watching "Flying Wild Alaska" and 99% of the places they fly, the only way you will get in and out of the communites is by air.
Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
 
hatbutton
Topic Author
Posts: 275
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:39 am

RE: AS Ending ADK. KS Submits Bid.

Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:54 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 5):
Jack up the fares and cargo prices?

Fares are already $1200-$1500 round trip, even with the subsidy. How much more do you think anyone would be willing to pay?

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 4):
If ADK loses service, they are doomed which those people would have no choice but to turn ADK into a ghost town.

Hate to say it but it already pretty much is a ghost town. The reason DUT survives without subsidies is because of its use as a port for a significant amount of fishing vessels. ADK is nowhere near a launching point for any type of fishing fleet.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 4):
Who else flies into ADK? I'm sure some GA aircraft do.
http://www.airnav.com/airport/PADK

According to Airnav.com, they averaged 28 aircraft movements per month in the year ending January 2011. 62% of that was commercial service. So there really isn't much going on there other than this EAS service.
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 1511
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

RE: AS Ending ADK. KS Submits Bid.

Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:28 am

Hate to sound callous but maybe Adak doesn't really have a purpose anymore. It seems the whole town is actually now owned by an Alaska Native corporation...Aleut Corporation....and only a little more than 350 people live there. It's reason for being in recent history was a military installation, now closed and a Cold War relic. Is it really the best use of EAS funds to pay a huge subsidy to so few people to maintain air service? Seems to me that if the whole town is privately owned that the corporation that owns it can provide charter service as needed.

Good read on the history of Adak: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adak,_Alaska
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: AS Ending ADK. KS Submits Bid.

Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:52 am

How come AS has never served Cold Bay?
 
User avatar
usxguy
Posts: 999
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

RE: AS Ending ADK. KS Submits Bid.

Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:53 am

... because PenAir is already in there. And interestingly enough, the Adak flights will make a fuel stop in Cold Bay.
xx
 
flyPBA
Posts: 124
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:10 am

RE: AS Ending ADK. KS Submits Bid.

Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:40 am

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 8):
According to Airnav.com, they averaged 28 aircraft movements per month in the year ending January 2011. 62% of that was commercial service. So there really isn't much going on there other than this EAS service.

The Coast Guard uses Adak quite a lot when they are patrolling/searching the waters out there
 
Dash8Driver16
Posts: 110
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:07 pm

RE: AS Ending ADK. KS Submits Bid.

Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:41 pm

I traveled out there two years ago. There are 13 passengers on the plane, two TSA agents, a mechanic, and ten revenue PAX. It was a pretty incredible place, there were people lining the fence when we arrived waiting for their freight and also for just the novelty. The agents there said that the Coasties come out and use it as a base for searches as well as air ambulance services.


[Edited 2012-04-19 10:52:29]
 
GentFromAlaska
Posts: 2666
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: AS Ending ADK. KS Submits Bid.

Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:15 pm

Too bad the Alaska Air Group couldn't stage a QX airframe in ANC to flight to run the flight.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
mhkansan
Posts: 726
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:02 pm

RE: AS Ending ADK. KS Submits Bid.

Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:31 am

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 13):
Too bad the Alaska Air Group couldn't stage a QX airframe in ANC to flight to run the flight.

The leg is within the advertised range of the Q400. Maybe QX would consider it if there were more of a market for Q flying up north.
 
Web
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Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:56 am

RE: AS Ending ADK. KS Submits Bid.

Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:06 pm

I would think that overall, the Saab would be the more economical choice of aircraft, especially given the light pax loads. Somebody has to pay for these flights, and it just seems wasteful to send so much aircraft to a place that doesn't need the lift of a 734.

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