Tango-Bravo
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Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:51 pm

Since I cannot seem to find... which terminals were used by the respective airlines (11 by my count) serving PHX in or about March 1980? A listing something like, American, Terminal 3, etc., would be fine...a link to a terminal map from 'back then' showing gates used by each airline would be great.
 
citationjet
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:07 pm

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Thread starter):
a link to a terminal map from 'back then' showing gates used by each airline would be great

PHX in 1987:
http://www.departedflights.com/PHX87.html

.
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ZID
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:30 pm

I have the Sky Harbor terminal pamphlets from the late 70's through the early 90's. They're in a box in the basement and I can't start looking until later tonight, but I'll give it a try and see if I can locate them for you. Give me a little bit.

That is a neat map from '87 though. Did anyone ever go through the America West terminal 3 extension shown on that map? Talk about rinky-dink, I swear it looked like the walls were made out of cardboard on the inside. And Southwest abused the heck out of terminal 1. What were there five or six jetway gates? I can still remember Southwest 737's occupying all of the jetways and then five or six more 737's parked with their noses between the tails of the jetwayed aircraft with stairs pushed up to their doors. To this day Southwest is known for getting the most out of each gate but what they did with Terminal 1 before Terminal 4 was built would have to be considered pushing the limits.
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4holer
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:36 pm

Theres a shot or Terminals 1 and 2 in 1978 from historicaerials...

http://www.historicaerials.com/aeria...688&lon=-112.01388537268&year=1978

Zooming in, looks like AA at T2 and a 737 and 727 at T1.

Looking around Sky Harbor, I like to see the 707s and the shine off of the AA jet ready to take off on the north runway and the other (which may be the same jet) further down the runway by the end of the old diagonal runway.

[Edited 2012-04-18 14:42:58]
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Tango-Bravo
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:29 pm

Quoting ZID (Reply 2):
I have the Sky Harbor terminal pamphlets from the late 70's through the early 90's. They're in a box in the basement and I can't start looking until later tonight, but I'll give it a try and see if I can locate them for you. Give me a little bit.

That is a neat map from '87 though.

Will look forward to what you can find and post. The link to the '87 map, while interesting and appreciated, no doubt looks quite different from a 1980 map...as in 'what a difference 7 years makes'...if for no other reason than the arrival of Southwest ('82) and America West ('83) at PHX plus expanded/reduced flight ops of other would have caused at least some airlines to be relocated to different gates and/or terminals between 1980 and '87.
 
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:39 pm

What gates did Hughes Airwest occupy?
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dlramp4life
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:51 pm

It is amazing seeing the HP extension on T3...Various times I have driven over on that end and there is no evidence of any building there what so ever, alot of those gate spaces have turned into remote parking spots today, ATA used to park their planes over there when they were out of gate 5 on T3 south (I think). Also looking at T2 seeing how the end branches out for gates 12 and 15...Today that is gone along with those gates.

T3 is still a vital part of PHX but feel like airline growth is limited because of lack of gates on the south end which according to these maps back in the days that was not an issue
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futureatp
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:44 pm

dlramp4life:

Next time your on the south side, check out the south end of terminal two. A lot of tell tale evidence of jet ways that are no longer there. This was also when there was only one taxiway and gates were aligned to the south as well. If memory severs me right, the fuel pits in the ground where the temporary concourse used to be are still visible as well. And, I lastly, there are still marks in the concrete on the south end of T3 where the old America West gets were as well as markings where they parked their 747s. Would have been gate 8 or 10 on T3 south. By markings, I mean where they removed the paint and subsequently left permanent marks in the concrete. I think the markings are much easier to see from the inside of the terminal.
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:35 am

Quoting type-rated (Reply 5):
What gates did Hughes Airwest occupy?

Speaking of... at least in 1975 (when it was only T1 & T2 at PHX -- T3 opened in '78) the Hughes Airwest gates were 11-20, located in an east-west aligned pier at the south end of T2. Since the aforementioned pier that once accomodated Hughes Airwest's gates is now long gone...when was that portion of T2 removed?

For map of PHX gates in 1975, click on link below (note that T1 and T2 were then known as the West and East Terminals, respectively):

http://www.departedflights.com/PHX75.html





[Edited 2012-04-18 18:41:18]
 
ZID
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:14 am

Okay. I found my OAG guide from Winter of 1980 and it has a nice map of the terminals at PHX. I wish I had a website to upload this to but by looking at the '75 map above you'll still get a good idea.

Terminal 1:
Gate 22 ------------------------ Cochise
Gates 24 & 25 -------------- Eastern & Braniff
Gate 26 ------------------------ USAir & Northwest

Terminal 2:
Gates B through F at the northeast end --------- PSA & International Arrivals
Gates 2, 4, 6, 8, & 10 on the west side --------- TWA
Gates 1, 3, 5, 7 & 9 on the east side ------------ Republic
Gates 11 to 20 in the long thin non-jetway canopy at the south end ---------- Frontier

Terminal 3 South Concourse:
Gates 1 to 6 ----------------- American

Terminal 3 North Concourse:
Gates 11 & 13 on east side near terminal ------------- Continental
Gates 12 & 14 on west side near terminal ------------- Delta
Gates 15 to 19 on end ----------------------------------------- Western
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F9Animal
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:01 am

Wow, look at all the airline clubs in 87! How things have changed!
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:57 am

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 8):
T3 opened in '78

IIRC, T3 didn't open until sometime in '79.

I routinely flew JFK-PHX late 1979 and early 1980 on AA and remember coming into T2...on an AA B-707, no less!
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4holer
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:09 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 11):
IIRC, T3 didn't open until sometime in '79.

I routinely flew JFK-PHX late 1979 and early 1980 on AA and remember coming into T2...on an AA B-707, no less!

I was wondering! Looking at the pic from '78 in my historicaerials link above, T3 looks nowhere close to completion, much less opening. And in addition to the AA DC-10 on the north runway, you can see a few of those AA 707 you speak of at T2.

If you switch the date on the map to 1986, you can see the T3 extra gates spoken about above as well.
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:30 am

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 8):
Speaking of... at least in 1975 (when it was only T1 & T2 at PHX -- T3 opened in '78) the Hughes Airwest gates were 11-20, located in an east-west aligned pier at the south end of T2.

Thanks for this info, I always wondered where they were as PHX was a hub for them.
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dlramp4life
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:02 am

Quoting futureatp (Reply 7):
Next time your on the south side, check out the south end of terminal two. A lot of tell tale evidence of jet ways that are no longer there. This was also when there was only one taxiway and gates were aligned to the south as well

I drive by it all the time when I am driving to the freight warehouse...Where gate 11 and gate 10 are, AS gates, there is a newer structure added on to where it looks like that long gate area was, you can still see evidence of gates 12 and 13 by the doorways still up there and I believe those where the US gates prior to the merger with HP...That end of the terminal is so empty all the time.

Quoting futureatp (Reply 7):
If memory severs me right, the fuel pits in the ground where the temporary concourse used to be are still visible as well.

I have not seen any....They have paved that whole area with blacktop on the remote stands off of T3 (where the temp. concourse was) over to T2 gates C and D where ZK and OO (UA express) operate from...But it has been a cluster over there now with sky train construction but I will keep my eyes open for it.

Quoting futureatp (Reply 7):
Would have been gate 8 or 10 on T3 south. By markings, I mean where they removed the paint and subsequently left permanent marks in the concrete. I think the markings are much easier to see from the inside of the terminal.

Gate 10 is no more....when they widen the taxiway they got rid of all the end gates on the south end on T2 and T3...AA is using gate 9 now with the ancient jetway that still had an old HP logo on it until AA put theirs up. The southend only has 5 gates versus the north end which has 10. Hope they can bring some gates back...
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Tango-Bravo
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:28 am

Quoting ZID (Reply 9):
...OAG guide from Winter of 1980...has a nice map of the terminals at PHX... by looking at the '75 map above you'll still get a good idea...



...Terminal 2:
...Gates 1, 3, 5, 7 & 9 on the east side ------------ Republic
Gates 11 to 20 in the long thin non-jetway canopy at the south end ---------- Frontier...

Since Republic had acquired Hughes Airwest just months earlier (1 October 1980) and, as best I can determine, Republic had not served PHX prior to the merger... Had Hughes Airwest moved from Gates 11-20 at T2 to 1,3,5,7 & 9 at the same Terminal sometime between 1975 and 1 Oct 80, or did the move take place at the time of the merger...or within weeks after Hughes Airwest became Republic?

And speaking of Frontier using the non-jetway canopy at the south end of T2...were they still using these gates in October 1985?
 
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:38 am

Quoting ZID (Reply 9):
Terminal 1:
Gate 22 ------------------------ Cochise
Gates 24 & 25 -------------- Eastern & Braniff
Gate 26 ------------------------ USAir & Northwest

Terminal 2:
Gates B through F at the northeast end --------- PSA & International Arrivals
Gates 2, 4, 6, 8, & 10 on the west side --------- TWA
Gates 1, 3, 5, 7 & 9 on the east side ------------ Republic
Gates 11 to 20 in the long thin non-jetway canopy at the south end ---------- Frontier

Terminal 3 South Concourse:
Gates 1 to 6 ----------------- American

Terminal 3 North Concourse:
Gates 11 & 13 on east side near terminal ------------- Continental
Gates 12 & 14 on west side near terminal ------------- Delta
Gates 15 to 19 on end ----------------------------------------- Western

Looks like you left out UA which used T1 at this time. In fact, UA remained in T1 until the Republic / NW merger. After the merger, the combined Republic/NW operation moved to T3 (the north and south concourses in T3 were extended to accommodate growth), and UA moved from T1 into Republic's gates at T2.

Quoting 4holer (Reply 12):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 11):
IIRC, T3 didn't open until sometime in '79.

I routinely flew JFK-PHX late 1979 and early 1980 on AA and remember coming into T2...on an AA B-707, no less!

I was wondering! Looking at the pic from '78 in my historicaerials link above, T3 looks nowhere close to completion, much less opening.

Yup, 1979 was the year it opened.
http://skyharbor.com/about/InterestingFacts.html

As a side note, and slightly off topic, I found the press release below that shows that PHX had the largest percentage increase in passengers year over year (2010 v. 2011) out of the top 10 largest airports in the U.S.
http://skyharbor.com/pressreleases/PHXLeadsGrowth.html
 
ZID
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:15 am

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 15):
Since Republic had acquired Hughes Airwest just months earlier (1 October 1980) and, as best I can determine, Republic had not served PHX prior to the merger... Had Hughes Airwest moved from Gates 11-20 at T2 to 1,3,5,7 & 9 at the same Terminal sometime between 1975 and 1 Oct 80, or did the move take place at the time of the merger...or within weeks after Hughes Airwest became Republic?

And speaking of Frontier using the non-jetway canopy at the south end of T2...were they still using these gates in October 1985?

Airwest moved into those gates before the merger and no Republic didn't serve PHX before the merger. But oddly enough they did serve TUS with service from MSP through DEN, and DEN & TUS were their only cities west of Rapid City. Yes, Frontier stayed in those gates until 1986 when they were acquired by Continental. My December 1985 Sky Harbor Flight Guide shows Frontier down to using gates 13-15 with 9 daily departures.
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ZID
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:52 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 16):
Looks like you left out UA which used T1 at this time.

I don't believe that United started PHX service until 1983 or so. It may have been as early as 1981. If I can dig deep enough in these boxes I believe I have the United Phoenix four page fold-out pamphlet announcing the inauguration of Sky Harbor service.
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WA707atMSP
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:00 pm

Quoting ZID (Reply 18):
Quoting EricR (Reply 16):Looks like you left out UA which used T1 at this time.
I don't believe that United started PHX service until 1983 or so. It may have been as early as 1981. If I can dig deep enough in these boxes I believe I have the United Phoenix four page fold-out pamphlet announcing the inauguration of Sky Harbor service.

According to UA's 1980 annual report, UA began service to PHX (from ORD) in 1980, with DEN / SFO - PHX added in 1981.
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EricR
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:30 pm

Quoting ZID (Reply 18):
I don't believe that United started PHX service until 1983 or so. It may have been as early as 1981. If I can dig deep enough in these boxes I believe I have the United Phoenix four page fold-out pamphlet announcing the inauguration of Sky Harbor service.
Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 19):
According to UA's 1980 annual report, UA began service to PHX (from ORD) in 1980, with DEN / SFO - PHX added in 1981.

Thanks. I did not realize UA started service to PHX so late. However, if my fading memory serves me correctly, they began service at T1. I remember their check in counter was located in an extremely cramped space at one end of T1.
 
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:20 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 20):
Thanks. I did not realize UA started service to PHX so late.

Prior to deregulation, UA applied several times to add PHX from various cities on their route system. All of UA's applications were rebuffed by the CAB.

Likewise, AA had applied several times to add LAS, but was not able to begin flights until after deregulation.
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PHX787
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:37 pm

I was looking at that old terminal map- what was that so-called "International Terminal" used for? Was there international service out of PHX in the 80s?
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dlramp4life
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:20 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 22):
I was looking at that old terminal map- what was that so-called "International Terminal" used for? Was there international service out of PHX in the 80s?

There was international service to Mexico, mostly charters I believe. The buildings use as of today the Airport Operations station and badging office.
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Tango-Bravo
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:00 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 22):
Was there international service out of PHX in the 80s?

Yes. In the early-mid 1980s Republic served Mazatlan, Puerto Vallarta and Guadalajara direct to/from PHX. The routes came with Hughes Airwest who had inherited them from Air West who had obtained the route authorities from the original operator, Bonanza Air Lines, who had launched PHX-Mexico service shortly before the 1968 3-way merger that created Air West. By the time Republic was merged with Northwest in 1986, they had dropped their PHX-Mexico flights.

Also, IIRC, Aeromexico served PHX off-and-on during the '80s, with multi-stop 'milk run' service to/from Mexico City and/or Guadalajara.
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:41 am

In 1986, WA flew PHX-Mexico, with 3x week PHX-PVR, and 4x week PHX-MZT, with 737-200s. The flights originated in SLC; at the time, SLC-Mexico nonstops were not allowed.
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Tango-Bravo
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:21 pm

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 19):
According to UA's 1980 annual report, UA began service to PHX (from ORD) in 1980,


Anyone know when (month) in 1980 UA began PHX service? (In UA's March 2, 1980 timetable, PHX is not yet a destination served by UA.)
 
PHX787
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:42 pm

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 24):
Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 25):

When did HP start service to Japan and Hawaii using the 742s?
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WA707atMSP
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:06 pm

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 26):
Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 19):According to UA's 1980 annual report, UA began service to PHX (from ORD) in 1980,

Anyone know when (month) in 1980 UA began PHX service? (In UA's March 2, 1980 timetable, PHX is not yet a destination served by UA.)

The December, 1980 issue of OAG Frequent Flyer magazine says "December 18 is the scheduled kickoff date for United's nonstop service between Chicago and both Phoenix and Tucson. Phoenix gets three daily roundtrip flights and Tucson gets two, with 727-200s to be used on all flights but one (a DC-10 will fly one Phoenix trip)".
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Tango-Bravo
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:11 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 27):
When did HP start service to Japan and Hawaii using the 742s?

Honolulu was served by HP's 747-200s from 15 Nov '89 to 10 Sep '92; Nagoya, Japan was flown 1 Feb '91 to 15 Apr '92.

Here's a link showing startup and end dates of cities served by HP, which is the source for the info above:

http://www.psa-history.org/awa/city.html

[Edited 2012-04-22 13:15:05]
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:12 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 27):
Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 24):Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 25):
When did HP start service to Japan and Hawaii using the 742s?

The December, 1989 issue of Air Transport World says HNL service began on 16 Nov 1989.

America West's 1990 annual report, which was their last pre-Chapter XI annual report, says Nagoya service began on 1 Feb 1991.
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rampart
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:56 pm

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 24):
Also, IIRC, Aeromexico served PHX off-and-on during the '80s, with multi-stop 'milk run' service to/from Mexico City and/or Guadalajara.

I recall having to transfer in PHX (on HP) to fly to TUC to catch an Aeromexico flight to Hermosillo in 1986. But, they may have served PHX earlier.

-Rampart
 
ZID
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RE: Terminals Used By Airlines, PHX 1980?

Sun May 06, 2012 3:35 am

Sorry, it's been awhile but I was just trying to get my basement boxes more organized and I came across my December 1980 OAG North American Pocket Flight Guide. Like I wrote previously, I knew that UA didn't start PHX service until sometime in the early 1980's but I couldn't remember exactly when, and someone else told us that it was December 18, 1980.

Starting Dec. 18 UA had:

Flight 229 a 727-200 from ORD to PHX landing at 12:05A and then turning around as flight 448 leaving PHX at 1:00A for ORD.

Flight 905 a 727-200 from BDL through ORD to PHX landing at 12:40P and then departing PHX at 1:35P as flight 802 to SEA then PDX.

Flight 801 a 727-200 from PDX through SEA to PHX landing at 1:55P and then departing PHX at 3:00P as flight 278 to ORD then BDL.

Flight 209 a DC-10 from DTW through ORD to PHX arriving at 6:15P and overnighting before leaving PHX at 9:30A for the return flight 242 to ORD and then DTW.
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