dtwmtx330
Topic Author
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:48 am

Air France Leases 343 To Air Madagascar

Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:57 am

Air France has leased F-GLZL to Air Madagascar. i have be told another 343 air frame is going from AF to air madagascar as well.
Anyone know which is the other registration?
 
ETinCaribe
Posts: 430
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:57 pm

RE: Air France Leases 343 To Air Madagascar

Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:10 am

Some discussion on this topic on a separate thread: African Aviation Thread Part 7 (by ETinCaribe Apr 19 2012 in Civil Aviation)

Don't know the answer to your question, perhaps others on the thread do.
 
AF Cabin Crew
Posts: 930
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 1999 11:45 pm

RE: Air France Leases 343 To Air Madagascar

Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:37 am

Ia Orana !

Next on the list to join Air Madagascar is F-GLZT.

The planes will be leased with AF pilots and cabin crew. F-GLZL is used for TNR-CDG and TBR-MRS-CDG. The next plane will be used for TNR-BKK-CAN.

Happy Flying,

AF Cabin Crew
Ia Maitai to tatou tere !
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2366
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: Air France Leases 343 To Air Madagascar

Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:38 pm

Jeez. those A343s have a horrible performance as it is.

Add an airport altitude of 4,100ft (TNR's altitude) and a runway lenght of only 10,171ft, and you get even more horrible results in terms of TOW.

At ISA conditions, meaning a temperature of 7 Celsius at TNR, the best TOW and A343 can achieve is 520,000 lbs, a full 100,000 lbs less than MTOW.

At ISA + 15 Celsius, TOW drops down to 510,000 lbs.

Pretty horrible.

Have a friend of mine who travelled CDG-TNR-CDG a few years ago with AF on the A343. On the return leg, he mentioned that they were lined up on the runway for about an hour, waiting for the headwinds to pick up for takeoff. Which explains why they stopped sending the A343's there.

TNR was supposed to increase their runway length by 500m. Does anyone know if this was done?

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2012-04-23 14:41:48]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3777
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: Air France Leases 343 To Air Madagascar

Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:43 pm

it is interesting that AF leases a bird that was recently reconfigured with NEV4 vs. using the NEV4 seats on a different airplane.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
Pihero
Posts: 4247
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:11 am

RE: Air France Leases 343 To Air Madagascar

Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:49 pm

Tnfz
Figures are strange as mine go from 618,000 lbs for sea level ISA to 552,000 at ISA 4100 ft and 540,000 at ISA +15°C .

Interesting exercise : do the same calcs with an A330 or a T7.
You could have a surprise there.
Sometimes, chief pilots know their jobs and give good advice to their CEO and financial VPs.
The red herring of the 340 performance is getting tiring, especially when nobody ever mentioned the 747 in these same conditions, and frankly, if the 340 doesn't perform well, the 747 was a pregnant sow, queen of the skies or not.


Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 3):
On the return leg, he mentioned that they were lined up on the runway for about an hour, waiting for the headwinds to pick up for takeoff.

Your friend must be a straight-faced joker as it is just a load of bullsmell : If that crew were so severely limited, they'd had to take min fuel for the trip... an hour's wait would have put them below min, therefore they'd have needed to return to the ramp for more...and they would have come to some interesting exercise in crew duty time (!) - and btw, the same would have applied to an en-route alternate like MRS.
The fleet captain and the OPS manager would be very very angry... but I've never heard of such a Mickey Mouse performance.

[Edited 2012-04-23 15:52:40]
Contrail designer
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2366
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: Air France Leases 343 To Air Madagascar

Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:41 am

Quoting Pihero (Reply 5):
Figures are strange as mine go from 618,000 lbs for sea level ISA to 552,000 at ISA 4100 ft and 540,000 at ISA +15°C .

My figures are straight from airbus.com. (it does state that it's for information only, but it's still surprising to see such a big difference between your figures and the ones on airbus.com)

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/medi...C/Airbus-AC_A340-200_300_Dec11.pdf

Quoting Pihero (Reply 5):
Interesting exercise : do the same calcs with an A330 or a T7.

772ER, which is what AF is sending to TNR now...

ISA - TOW of 575,000 lbs
ISA+15 TOW of 565,000lbs

Now granted, the 772ER's OEW is 18,000 lbs more than the A343, but it's still pretty clear that the 772 is a better aircraft for the route.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 3):
At ISA conditions, meaning a temperature of 7 Celsius at TNR, the best TOW and A343 can achieve is 520,000 lbs, a full 100,000 lbs less than MTOW.

i said 100,000 lbs, but that's wrong, it's 90,000 lbs, as the MTOW of the A343 is 610,000 lbs.

Thenofyzone

[Edited 2012-04-23 17:55:17]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
dtwmtx330
Topic Author
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:48 am

RE: Air France Leases 343 To Air Madagascar

Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:55 pm

Quoting AF Cabin Crew (Reply 2):

When will Air Madagascar get ZT?
 
tom355uk
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:34 pm

RE: Air France Leases 343 To Air Madagascar

Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:43 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 3):
At ISA + 15 Celsius, TOW drops down to 510,000 lbs.

I think you have looked at the wrong table - The RTOW you have quoted is for the -5C2 version rather than the higher thrust -5C4's that F-GLZL is equipped with   Take a look at page 99 of the .pdf and you will see that Pihero is bang on at 540,000lbs (244.9t)

From what I can see, an A332 with GE CF6-80's would have a RTOW of aaproximately 450,000lbs (or 204.1t in proper money  ), a reduction of 60,000lbs (or approx 29t) from its MTOW.

A 772ER as you say is 565,000lbs (256.2t), a loss of 91,000lbs (41.2t)

Interestingly, as a percentage the 772ER loses the most from its MTOW - nearly 14% whereas both the A332 and A343 lose slightly less than 13%. The extra 25,000lbs of payload offered by the 772 is only useful if you have cargo and pax demand to fill it, otherwise you are carrying more empty weight for no reason at all  
on Twitter @tombeckett2285
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2366
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: Air France Leases 343 To Air Madagascar

Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:24 pm

Quoting tom355uk (Reply 8):
I think you have looked at the wrong table - The RTOW you have quoted is for the -5C2 version rather than the higher thrust -5C4's that F-GLZL is equipped with

Yes yes....that makes sense now. Sorry about the mistake.

Quoting tom355uk (Reply 8):
The extra 25,000lbs of payload offered by the 772 is only useful if you have cargo and pax demand to fill it, otherwise you are carrying more empty weight for no reason at all

That's probably why AF is sending the B772.

Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
fodar
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:42 pm

RE: Air France Leases 343 To Air Madagascar

Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:12 pm

Quoting dtwmtx330 (Reply 7):
When will Air Madagascar get ZT?

The plan is for it to arrive in TNR on 26 June 2012.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2366
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: Air France Leases 343 To Air Madagascar

Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:07 pm

Interestingly enough, AF still has 3 A340-311's in the fleet, the ones with the -5C2 engines, and so does LH, with 8. IB has one.

Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
Burkhard
Posts: 1916
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:34 pm

RE: Air France Leases 343 To Air Madagascar

Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:13 pm

Up to now Euroatlantic flew 777 for Air Madagaskar, I assume this ends now or has already ended?
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3451
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: Air France Leases 343 To Air Madagascar

Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:27 pm

Will these aircraft get new colours?
 
tom355uk
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:34 pm

RE: Air France Leases 343 To Air Madagascar

Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:29 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 11):
AF still has 3 A340-311's in the fleet, the ones with the -5C2 engines

Correct, ZC, ZH & ZI.

These tend to be used on shorter routes (DTW, DEL, YYZ, YUL), but ZC seems to be exclusively assigned to ORY-CAY-ORY this year!

I bet they are pretty economical to run as well, being fully amortised  
on Twitter @tombeckett2285

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos