PSU.DTW.SCE
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DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:01 pm

An article appeared in today's Detroit Free Press about DTW officials pushing to get service to DXB on DL or EK. They've apparently has some discussions and are setting up an online petition.

We all know that it is part of the air service developer's role to help push for new service and try to engage the airlines and the community.

Any thoughts on this? I would find it hard to believe that DTW could get on the list higher than ORD. Granted there is a very large Indian and Middle Eastern population Metro Detroit but not sure how much of that really translates into VFR demand.

http://www.freep.com/article/2012042...odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE
 
timf
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:09 pm

This campaign began shortly before QR announced they were starting service to DTW. Surprisingly, there is no mention of that anywhere in the article or the metro airport website. I find it funny that they make mention of the A380, as demand to DTW would never justify anything more than a 777. Increased service from DTW to the Middle East is certainly justified, but I don't know that DXB is necessary with the launch of DOH.
 
Cipango
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:10 pm

Unless industry picks up in Detroit, I don't think EK would want to test the waters there just yet. Im sure DL are the same, however with connections, DL might just work.

Just my two cents.
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dtw9
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:22 pm

Quoting cipango (Reply 2):
Unless industry picks up in Detroit, I don't think EK would want to test the waters there just yet. Im sure DL are the same, however with connections, DL might just work.

From the petition site, DTW has 250 people a day traveling between Detroit and India. I say this is enough traffic to "test the waters".
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/669/4...s-demand-detroit-to-dubai-service/

[Edited 2012-04-23 11:28:30]
 
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:35 pm

DTW has a large Arab population and right now I am sure they are using AF, KL, LH and RJ. I know that when BA served LHR from DTW they carried a large amount of the India traffic. NW use to route them via AMS to India on the DC10's. I could easily see an A380 three times a week working.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:36 pm

I must've missed the QR announcement. What are their plans?

Granted there is the RJ service.

India service is challenging, not due to demand but due to yields.
 
luv2fly
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:38 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 5):
India service is challenging, not due to demand but due to yields.

You hit the nail on the head right there.
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dtw9
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:53 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 5):
I must've missed the QR announcement. What are their plans?

Read here
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...icago-as-787-deliveries-begin.html
 
MAH4546
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:23 pm

Qatar has not announced Detroit. Bloomberg misquoted a QR official. Qatar is considering Detroit, that is all.
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IrishAyes
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:50 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 4):
DTW has a large Arab population and right now I am sure they are using AF, KL, LH and RJ. I know that when BA served LHR from DTW they carried a large amount of the India traffic. NW use to route them via AMS to India on the DC10's. I could easily see an A380 three times a week working.

I personally don't.

DTW is honestly a mixed bag - one that somewhat reminds me of DFW in ways.

Due to geographic positioning, the role that it plays within the DL/SkyTeam network, and thanks to a few business ties, DTW can support quite a few intercontinental flights to Asia, Europe, and Latin America, and perhaps 1-2 to the Middle East, but it's definitely got limits and boundaries.

I know that a lot of the DL flights to Asia this Winter are going down to 4-5 weekly, including DTW-PEK/HKG/ICN.

Further, the BA flight to DTW was axed due to poor yields, and RJ only flies twice a week (via MTL). LH goes 6W with a 3-class configured A330.

And, for the most part, DTW people can pretty much get to a lot of places via NRT or AMS.

The latter is particularly huge given that DL is currently flying 4X on DTWAMS, offering 1,062 seats DAILY.

Yes, there is a large population of people from the Middle East/Indian subcontinent in the DTW area, but I'm not entirely these will justify an EK or DL flight to DXB. I really don't think there is room, nor a need for it at the moment.

DTWDXB involves a lot of backtracking for many of these people. Plus, I can't see why DL would want to launch this alongside the pre-existing ATLDXB flight considering there is no onward connecting carrier beyond DXB. Surely, there cannot be much DTW-DXB O&D traffic. Further, DL encountered cannibalization issues when they had ATLTLV running alongside JFKTLV, and was forced to ditch ATLTLV. I'm guessing this scenario could potentially occur again with both ATL and DTW doing DXB as well.

Also, I cannot see why EK would be in a rush to launch this route, just for the sake of capturing India traffic. Considering how SEA has performed below expectations, EK may be reconsidering its phase-in strategy of going for the smaller, medium tier US markets over the ones they have yet to tap, such as ORD or MIA.

Of course DTW officials will push for new air service, it's their job; however, that will only materialize if there is a mutual benefit for the carrier which I don't think exists at this point.

Not saying its impossible to see a carrier offering daily service to the Middle East from DTW anytime soon, but I a). don't think that DL is the solution and b). don't think that it is going to bring in an A380, at the extreme. If I had to take a bet, I would guess first on QR, then potentially TK.
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:51 pm

Qatar Airways Ltd. plans to start flights to Atlanta, Chicago, Boston and Detroit within the next year, doubling its U.S. network, as the carrier begins receiving Boeing Co. (BA) 787 Dreamliners.

The articles says they are planning not considering.
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MAH4546
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:11 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 10):

Qatar Airways Ltd. plans to start flights to Atlanta, Chicago, Boston and Detroit within the next year, doubling its U.S. network, as the carrier begins receiving Boeing Co. (BA) 787 Dreamliners.

The articles says they are planning not considering.


The article is wrong and misquotes an official. Notice how there is absolutely no other article on the subject?
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luv2fly
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:14 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 9):
Further, the BA flight to DTW was axed due to poor yields, and RJ only flies twice a week (via MTL). LH goes 6W with a 3-class configured A330.



It was poor yields since BA had no feed on the DTW end that is for sure. RJ flying only twice a week assures them of full flights and high prices no need to discount. And the DL 4 times is surely not all going to AMS. I do not see DL offering DXB, I believe it will be Qatar before EK. Also last the Indian travelers will endure back tracking for a low fare so that really is not an issue.
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IrishAyes
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:22 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 12):
It was poor yields since BA had no feed on the DTW end that is for sure.

BA also serves SAN, DEN, IAH, PHX, PHL, BWI + a host of other US cities with non O/W hub feed at the end and all of them have weathered a pretty terrible global revenue environment without being dealt the axe.

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 12):
Also last the Indian travelers will endure back tracking for a low fare so that really is not an issue.

Off of what are you basing this generalization? India-bound PAX may be low-yielding and price sensitive but its not like they're all blind sheep that will follow irregular routings adding travel time just for the sake of saving a few bucks!!! haha.
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kaitak
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:40 pm

I think that given the rates of growth of M/E carriers, it's only a matter of time before one of them flies to DTW; it's clearly a question of "when", not "if". I think QR seems most likely; they'll use a smaller capacity aircraft (788) to test the water and then increase to a 77W in due course. Other airlines might enter the market, but in one sense, that'll depend on how aggressively and effectively QR builds its presence there; if it's slow, it risks letting others in. I have no doubt that the market is there.
 
jetlanta
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:41 pm

To those trying to justify EK or QR service based on existing demand, I ask...

Why would those airlines start doing that now?

At least one of them will start service to DTW in the next year or two. The VFR ties to the Middle East and India alone ensure this. As to the low-yields, which airlines do you think caused them?
 
dtw9
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:44 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
The article is wrong and misquotes an official. Notice how there is absolutely no other article on the subject?

There are five or six articles from all over the gulf. Heres just a couple. I guess they were misquoted too.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/qatar...rways-expand-us-routes-453832.html

http://qatarsun.com/
 
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:04 pm

Quoting dtw9 (Reply 3):
From the petition site, DTW has 250 people a day traveling between Detroit and India. I say this is enough traffic to "test the waters".

That's enough to fill a 763. Those people might go via any number of routes. Remember that EK doesn't serve India non-stop from anywhere other than DXB, so from a routes point of view, 250 pax/day does not even merit EK's smallest a/c (A330), even if they could get 100% of the market share.

Recall that DL/KL do serve India already. In this case, the request is specifically for a non-stop to DXB and I am skeptical about the demand for such a destination.
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nomorerjs
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:46 am

EK chose DFW and SEA over ORD. No reason why DTW wouldn't be ahead of ORD.
 
compensateme
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:40 am

Despite the otherwise dismal job market, there's a growing shortage of engineers in Metro Detroit. Additionally, projection models show an alarming shortage of doctors, surgeons, specialists, etc. as the area's large population of baby boomers age. Many of these positions in Metro Detroit are already being filled by Middle Eastern, Indian (and some other Asian) immigrants; the trend's only expected to accelerate in the future. This is reflected in most long-term population models. This is also a very strong VFR segment. We're certainly not talking about Minnesota's Humong population waving its Minnesota-state welfare checks at Delta...
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:47 am

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 12):
Also last the Indian travelers will endure back tracking for a low fare so that really is not an issue.

There is no backtracking involved if you are going to India via the Middle-East.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
Remember that EK doesn't serve India non-stop from anywhere other than DXB,

Are there any destinations that EK serves nonstop other than DXB? What is your point?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
Recall that DL/KL do serve India already. In this case, the request is specifically for a non-stop to DXB and I am skeptical about the demand for such a destination.

DL/KL only serve BOM and DEL. EK serves other cities in India from DXB.
 
compensateme
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:58 am

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 9):
Further, the BA flight to DTW was axed due to poor yields...

BA did not axe Detroit due to poor yields. The route was cancelled after BA lost a series of corporate contracts, most prominently that of Pfizer (after it closed its Ann Arbor research center). BA, which had flown the route nearly twice-daily with a mixture of 777 and 744 equipment less than 7 years prior, had been beat: LH was adding a second-daily flight to FRA.
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:03 am

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 15):
The VFR ties to the Middle East and India alone ensure this

Most of the DTW demand is centered around the Levant, which is a bit of a backhaul for any of the GCC carriers and would be tough to price competitively against the better connections over Europe. If TK were ever to start DTW those traffic flows would be shot. It's also so seasonal it often looks like MSPCUN in terms of seasonality. The India stuff can be connected any number of different ways and there is little business traffic. In the case of EK I wonder if they really want to fill the limited supply of India seats with more longhaul ethnic American traffic.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 15):
To those trying to justify EK or QR service based on existing demand, I ask...

I'd bet EK is too smart to start DTW any time soon, but QR is not  
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MAH4546
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:05 am

Quoting dtw9 (Reply 16):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
The article is wrong and misquotes an official. Notice how there is absolutely no other article on the subject?

There are five or six articles from all over the gulf. Heres just a couple. I guess they were misquoted too.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/qatar...rways-expand-us-routes-453832.html

http://qatarsun.com/


Other news sources that are simply phishing the same Bloomberg article don't count.

I spoke to somebody who was at the press conference. QR did not in anyway, shape or form announce Detroit, or any other new market. It gave examples of possible 787 routes, that's it.
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PHX787
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:01 am

DL might make it work, but unless EK does some sort of codeshare with DL it won't happen.

A good idea though. I'm pretty sure the 77L can make it to DXB 
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:47 am

Quoting cipango (Reply 2):
Unless industry picks up in Detroit, I don't think EK would want to test the waters there just yet. Im sure DL are the same, however with connections, DL might just work.
Quoting nomorerjs (Reply 18):
EK chose DFW and SEA over ORD. No reason why DTW wouldn't be ahead of ORD
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 24):
DL might make it work, but unless EK does some sort of codeshare with DL it won't happen
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 24):
DL might make it work, but unless EK does some sort of codeshare with DL it won't happen

A DL flight to DXB would be a disaster, yes they have connections at DTW, but DXB is really not a "destination" it has become what it is in the aviation world, because of EK and it's multiple daily banks of flights to all corners of the world, which is why, if any airline should do it, it would have to be EK, at least they would likely run the route long enough to make it profitable, I don't think DL would. If DL wanted to have a DXB flight that was a good connecting point, wouldn't it be ATL? I don't think DL is focusing as many resources to the DTW market, as it is in other hub cities. IMHO.
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compensateme
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:36 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 25):
I don't think DL is focusing as many resources to the DTW market, as it is in other hub cities. IMHO.

I think you're wrong.

Post-merger, certainly no other city has benefited from an increase in intercontinental service as DTW has. Heck, ATL lost its Asian service (sans NRT) to DTW! Domestically, ATL (and now LGA) has unquestionably benefited the most but DTW's had mixed results (sharp increases to the West Coast & Florida, sharp reductions to the Midwest & East Coast) and among DTW, MSP & SLC, none standout. Of course, CVG & MEM have suffered dearly.
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luv2fly
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:50 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 21):

BA did not axe Detroit due to poor yields. The route was cancelled after BA lost a series of corporate contracts, most prominently that of Pfizer (after it closed its Ann Arbor research center). BA, which had flown the route nearly twice-daily with a mixture of 777 and 744 equipment less than 7 years prior, had been beat: LH was adding a second-daily flight to FRA.



I do not remember them flying the route twice daily, I do remember the 747, 777 and finally the 767 being flown. Also remember for teh longest time the flight did route via Montreal in each direction. Also towards the end of the route it had a IAH tag as well.
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NASCARAirforce
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:23 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 4):
NW use to route them via AMS to India on the DC10's. I could easily see an A380 three times a week working.

They were doing it on the 747-400 right after 9/11 actually when NWA opened the new terminal. I forgot the flight number but it usually arrived around 2pm at DTW

Quoting timf (Reply 1):
This campaign began shortly before QR announced they were starting service to DTW.

That is the first I have heard of this too, but I could eventually see a 787 being used. Didn't Turkish announce DTW?

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 9):
Yes, there is a large population of people from the Middle East/Indian subcontinent in the DTW area, but I'm not entirely these will justify an EK or DL flight to DXB. I really don't think there is room, nor a need for it at the moment.

The majority of the Middle Eastern Population in Detroit come from backgrounds where their airlines are not allowed to fly into this country.

Palestinean - don't have an airline
Lebanese - MEA not allowed to fly here
Iranian - not allowed to fly here
Iraqi - not much left of the airline
Syrian - not allowed to fly here

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 12):


It was poor yields since BA had no feed on the DTW end that is for sure

Kind of funny that an airline that had served Detroit for 50 years (way back when it was BOAC) pulls out

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 21):
BA, which had flown the route nearly twice-daily with a mixture of 777 and 744 equipment less than 7 years prior,

I don't recall BA ever flying twice a day to DTW (other than in 2006 when they flew a 767 in from LHR, it continued on to IAH then came back through DTW later that night). Are you sure you aren't thinking of KLM who used to have 2 daily flights to DTW in the late 1990s early 2000s? KLM used to bring in a 747 and MD-11 daily, then it went to 747 and 767.

BA was flying a mix of the L1011 and 747 in the 1980s, then a mix of 747 and 777 in the 1990s and 2000s depending on season then after 9/11 went down to the 767 before it pulled out completely in 2008.
 
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:48 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 25):
If DL wanted to have a DXB flight that was a good connecting point, wouldn't it be ATL?

IIRC, there is already a flight to DXB from there (or it might be JFK...I'll check when I have a computer handy)
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compensateme
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:36 pm

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 28):
I don't recall BA ever flying twice a day to DTW (other than in 2006 when they flew a 767 in from LHR, it continued on to IAH then came back through DTW later that night). Are you sure you aren't thinking of KLM...
Quoting luv2fly (Reply 27):
I do not remember them flying the route twice daily, I do remember the 747, 777 and finally the 767 being flown.

I clipped an article in the late 1990s/early 2000s announcing a seasonal upguage in DTW-LHR service (10x weekly, I believe). The article cited the service as a consolation after Air France had left DTW off its summer schedule, despite intense, eleventh hour talks with the airport. It's possible the additional service may not have been inaugurated (and my mind's playing tricks on me into thinking it was).
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:03 pm

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 28):
The majority of the Middle Eastern Population in Detroit come from backgrounds where their airlines are not allowed to fly into this country.

Palestinean - don't have an airline
Lebanese - MEA not allowed to fly here
Iranian - not allowed to fly here
Iraqi - not much left of the airline
Syrian - not allowed to fly here

Which, of course, makes a flight to a Middle East hub even more attractive.
 
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:37 pm

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 28):
The majority of the Middle Eastern Population in Detroit come from backgrounds where their airlines are not allowed to fly into this country.

Palestinean - don't have an airline
Lebanese - MEA not allowed to fly here
Iranian - not allowed to fly here
Iraqi - not much left of the airline
Syrian - not allowed to fly here
Quoting jetlanta (Reply 31):
Which, of course, makes a flight to a Middle East hub even more attractive.

Right, but not if it is done via DXB, because the backtracking problem is still a relevant bottleneck.
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jetlanta
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:14 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 32):
Right, but not if it is done via DXB, because the backtracking problem is still a relevant bottleneck.

I just don't think the backtracking is that relevant to people heading to those destinations. In fact, connecting in a place like DXB might be preferred versus some of the other options.
 
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:10 pm

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 33):

I just don't think the backtracking is that relevant to people heading to those destinations. In fact, connecting in a place like DXB might be preferred versus some of the other options.

The passengers might not care, but EK might not want to take them 1000+ miles further than the EU carriers for the same fare.
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PHX787
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:59 am

DL does actually have service to DXB using a 77L IIRC. Not sure if it is daily or not though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai_International_Airport
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:15 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 29):
IIRC, there is already a flight to DXB from there (or it might be JFK...I'll check when I have a computer handy)

I do apologize for not making my comment more understood, as being a bit sarcastic, I was trying to prove my point that DL would need the feed of an ATL hub to make a DXB flight work, as I had said, DXB is less a destination than a connecting point for EK. If DTW wants a DXB flight, IMO, they have best kiss EK's a** before DL's.
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:35 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 34):
The passengers might not care, but EK might not want to take them 1000+ miles further than the EU carriers for the same fare.

Non-optimal routings are irrelevant if the carrier feels the service can be profitable. In fact, the practice is pretty common. For example, DL has built an impressive Atlantic operation from ATL despite the fact that most passengers must travel hundreds of miles out of their way to transit through ATL. The bigger obstacle would be getting passengers to take the non-optimal routings. And I'd bet anything that the overwhelming majority of Middle Eastern people would fly out of their way on a Middle Eastern airline before they'd set foot on a USA or Europe-based carrier (hey, stereotypes are just as prevalent today as they were 10 years ago).
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:54 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 37):
And I'd bet anything that the overwhelming majority of Middle Eastern people would fly out of their way on a Middle Eastern airline before they'd set foot on a USA or Europe-based carrier

Except when they step aboard that Middle Eastern airline called Emirates and transit through DXB, they stand a much better chance of dealing with anyone BUT fellow Middle Easterners! LOL!
 
MaverickM11
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:04 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 37):
Non-optimal routings are irrelevant if the carrier feels the service can be profitable.

Sure but EK would get 30% less unit revenue for DTWDXBBEY than DTWCDGBEY if it's selling the same fare as AF. That's a huge difference and I don't think EK is as desperate for traffic as QR and EY
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:23 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 4):
DTW has a large Arab population and right now I am sure they are using AF, KL, LH and RJ.
KL doesn't serve DTW.

One thing is for sure though, if EK or QR start DTW, that puts into jeapordy RJ and to a certain extent LH. The latter already serves DTW only 6 weekly, proving the fact that a daily run is not ideal, or that demand it's there due to competition. Add Middle Eastern airlines in the mix, and that could be the beginning of the end for these two carriers at DTW.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2012-04-25 08:56:30]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
compensateme
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:28 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 40):
One thing is for sure though, if EK or QR start DTW, that puts into jeapordy RJ and to a certain extent LH. The latter already serves DTW only 6 weekly, proving the fact that a daily run is not ideal, or that demand it's there due to competition. Add Middle Eastern airlines in the mix, and that could be the beginning of the end for these two carriers at DTW.

It's most definitely not "for sure."  

LH's bread-and-butter is the premium automotive traffic between Detroit and Europe (hence the driving reason behind the route's twice-daily service before the local industry collapsed), not VFR traffic into the Middle East. With automotive production ramping up and the stingant supplier agreements among the Big 3, it's all but assured automotive traffic will pick-up. If anything, Fiat pulling most of Chrysler's presence from Detroit would have a more crippling effect.

And RJ... how many people in the area are even aware RJ serves DTW?

(And BTW, don't be fooled by frequency -- often, it does not measure profitability. Certain days trigger sensitivity among some routes... look at LAS, for example).
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
 
compensateme
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:39 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 39):
Sure but EK would get 30% less unit revenue for DTWDXBBEY than DTWCDGBEY if it's selling the same fare as AF. That's a huge difference and I don't think EK is as desperate for traffic as QR and EY

All that would be relevant would be the belief that the airline could serve the route profitably.

And the consensus among many Middle Easterners in the area, even those born & raised here, is discomfort when traveling. It's very possible the trunk of the market would pay a premium to travel on a Middle Eastern carrier (but I'm not aware of any such research one way or another).
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
 
dtw9
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:58 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 41):
The latter already serves DTW only 6 weekly, proving the fact that a daily run is not ideal

LH always backs down to 6 times a week in the winter months, but ups it to daily during the Spring/Summer/Fall. Cargo is particularly strong between Detroit and Frankfurt witnessed by the addition of 2 weekly LH cargo flights that were recently added
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:14 am

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 30):
I clipped an article in the late 1990s/early 2000s announcing a seasonal upguage in DTW-LHR service (10x weekly, I believe). The article cited the service as a consolation after Air France had left DTW off its summer schedule, despite intense, eleventh hour talks with the airport. It's possible the additional service may not have been inaugurated (and my mind's playing tricks on me into thinking it was).

Air France wasn't flying to DTW back then. Northwest wasn't even in Skyteam yet, they were in their own little KLM,Continental, Alitalia Northwest alliance I think called Wings

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 31):
Which, of course, makes a flight to a Middle East hub even more attractive.

Yeah but they need a hub closer to those areas like Turkey or Amman Jordan (maybe a daily nonstop)

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 32):
Right, but not if it is done via DXB, because the backtracking problem is still a relevant bottleneck.

Backtracking from Lebanon to Dubai would be like a person wanting to go to Detroit from Europe but landing at LAX and having to take a flight back.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 40):
KL doesn't serve DTW

Well it does as a Delta codeshare. I wouldn't be surprised if it does some seasonal returns in the future again

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 41):
And RJ... how many people in the area are even aware RJ serves DTW?

I am. I tried to get a picture of it the other day up there thinking it would land on 21L since it was coming from the east, but it landed 22R
 
SYfan100
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:02 am

If you have 250 people flying daily to India then wouldn't it be better to just have a Airbus 330 type aircraft. Now throw in a connection with maybe people coming from MSP and Memphis, Salt Lake City, and Ohio, then maybe a larger aircraft.
But however if the JFK or Washington Dulles connection is working then stick with it!
I remember back when Northwest use to do MSP to Oslo on a Dc-10 just about daily several different times.
Somedays some say you could have a full plane heading to that city between traveling groups and just those flying on their own to visit family or whoever. it looked alright at the time but then somedays there was not the demand.
But maybe in all reality it could have been four days a week instead of seven or six?
You need to really know where your market is at in which keep in mind some places will be a "Seasonal" type flight so you will need to connect in all reality at JFK or Washington Dc. Maybe even London as who knows?
Detroit is doing their job of trying to get something for a group of people that travel out of their airport. But the question really is can it support one daily flight like they ask?
People change overtime and so the demand may drop actually in time, but then again it might increase if you have the proper route network with having a second hub for major international flights that is not JFK or Washington Dc.
It's hard to tell on these routes actually because it's something new in all reality with the thought that there is a demand.
 
compensateme
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:06 pm

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 44):
Air France wasn't flying to DTW back then. Northwest wasn't even in Skyteam yet, they were in their own little KLM,Continental, Alitalia Northwest alliance I think called Wings

Read what I wrote one more time  .

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 44):
I am. I tried to get a picture of it the other day up there thinking it would land on 21L since it was coming from the east, but it landed 22R

But you no longer live in the area.  
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
 
compensateme
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:22 pm

Quoting SYfan100 (Reply 45):
Detroit is doing their job of trying to get something for a group of people that travel out of their airport. But the question really is can it support one daily flight like they ask?

I'm not certain I'm following your points.

DTW's seeking regular service to the DXB, not necessarily daily. Service need not operate daily in order to sustain profitability. If fact, many airlines may be able to increase their profitability by slashing frequency, but often other factors (e.g. cash flow) triumph in decision making.

If there's a potential strong local market, why would it be better served through an additional connection? Even in 2012, interline connections are often painful and add hours to one's travel time. Plus, the addition of direct service often brings new opportunities to the local market.
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
 
OOer
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:28 pm

Doesn't JFK-DXB make more sense for DL?

Yes there is competition but the market is also quite a bit bigger and DL offers many connections out of JFK.

DL could easily capture not only the JFK to Middle East market but also pax from the entire region including DTW. As it stands someone from the Northeast would have to fly down to ATL to get on DL metal to DXB...not really optimal. Either that or connect in AMS/CDG.

A 777-200ER could easily do JFK-DXB. What are the chances?
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB

Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:28 pm

I think Delta should have really reconsidered putting off the orders of the 787s that Northwest would have been taking delivery of pretty shortly if Northwest were still around. The 787 would have been good for routes to the Mideast from DTW