FL787
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DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:40 am

It appears that DL may be making another push at LAX. Beginning July 11th (same day as phase II of the LGA expansion), DL will no longer have any flights out of LAX on anything smaller than a CR7. The DCI flights out LAX in late July are as follows:

MCI: 1x CR9
LAS: 4x CR7, 5x CR9
OAK: 4x CR9
PHX: 4x CR7
SMF: 4x CR7
SLC: 2x CR9 (also 2x 320, 3x 757)
SAN: 6x CR7
SFO: 7x CR7, 4x CR9 (and 1x 738)

It's tough to argue that a market like LAX-SAN needs FC but I think this is a good move by DL to differentiate themselves from UA, AA, and WN at LAX and will also give a better experience to high value SkyTeam pax connecting through. Being able to offer wifi and FC on all flights certainly can't hurt DL's chances of attracting some more big spenders in LAX.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:07 am

Yeah but also maybe getting cr2s out. Too high per seat cost and simpler to limit plane types. These are all pretty low fare markets the cr2s just didn't make sense. Don't be surprised to see some frequency reductions in the future. Press announcement by delta of anytype?
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:28 am

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
It's tough to argue that a market like LAX-SAN needs FC

Except for the fact that the majority of those customers buying F class tickets will be traveling beyond LAX on connecting flights and they're getting through fares to their final destination.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:41 am

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
SAN: 6x CR7

I just don't think it will stick. It may, but I'm not holding my breath. Wish LAX-MCI was mainline or a E-jet. Long flight on a CRJ.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 1):
These are all pretty low fare markets the cr2s just didn't make sense.

eh but does a CR7 really make sense on LAX-SAN? (of course most say LAX-SAN doesn't make sense)

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 1):
Don't be surprised to see some frequency reductions in the future.

you keep saying that and it never happens.

For SAN the last thing they want to do is cut flights, AA and UA both have like 12 daily flights. Delta wont wanna give them anymore of an advantage.

anyways FWIW Delta is now at ~105 flights. Still need to hit a few more major biz markets IMO.
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FL787
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:12 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 1):
Press announcement by delta of anytype?

None that I have seen.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 2):
Except for the fact that the majority of those customers buying F class tickets will be traveling beyond LAX on connecting flights and they're getting through fares to their final destination.

True which is why I mentioned the connecting passengers but if it were really that important to offer a seamless trip we'd see UA and AA offering FC on the route as well.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3):
Wish LAX-MCI was mainline

You may get your wish soon.
 
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enilria
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:19 pm

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
It appears that DL may be making another push at LAX. Beginning July 11th (same day as phase II of the LGA expansion), DL will no longer have any flights out of LAX on anything smaller than a CR7. The DCI flights out LAX in late July are as follows:

DL is all about product lately. Good for them. I still think LAX is a losing proposition for everybody but WN, but they certainly are trying hard.
 
PHX787
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:49 pm

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
PHX: 4x CR7

My connections to and from LAX from here have always been a CR7, so this isn't any news here.
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:15 pm

Quoting FL787 (Reply 4):
if it were really that important to offer a seamless trip we'd see UA and AA offering FC on the route as well

Every innovative idea has to start somewhere; it could be that this experiment of DL's is duplicated by UA and AA down the line. Or, UA and AA elect to provide mainline F/C service to/from those destinations to SAN instead of offering connections over LAX.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
phllax
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:31 pm

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3):
Wish LAX-MCI was mainline or a E-jet. Long flight on a CRJ.

It was a 175 until April 9. It was the only Delta E-jet in LAX.
 
laca773
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:41 pm

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3):

I just don't think it will stick. It may, but I'm not holding my breath. Wish LAX-MCI was mainline or a E-jet. Long flight on a CRJ.

I agree. Wouldn't the E75 be more efficient over the CR9? A route like this would be a perfect for the E75/E90/E95.

On the 4th June 2012,:
LAS: 9x CR9
OAK: 4x CR9
PHX: 4x CR7
SMF: 4x CRJ *upgauged to 4x CR7 on 11 July 2012
SFO: 6x CR7; 4x CR9; 1x 738
MCI: 1x CR9
SLC: 2x CR9; 3x 757; 1x 73H; 1x 320

I'm impressed DL has stayed in the LAX-SFO market. I remember when they introduced this market yet again, last summer, many a.netters were very pessimistic about it being around for no more than the summer season. Here we are a year later with eleven nonstops! Good for DL! I'm glad they are sticking it out.
It seems like the CR9 is a good a/c for these short segments allowing more frequencies since the capacity is less on these birds compared to if they were using 73Hs on all these flights.
 
jetlanta
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:59 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
DL is all about product lately. Good for them. I still think LAX is a losing proposition for everybody but WN, but they certainly are trying hard.

From what I understand, that isn't actually the case. In fact, LAX has done well for a while now for DL.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 9):
I agree. Wouldn't the E75 be more efficient over the CR9? A route like this would be a perfect for the E75/E90/E95.

The CR9 carries exactly the same number of passengers in exactly the same configuration, but the CR9 is about a 1,000lbs lighter. My understanding is that the CR9 economics are generally superior.
 
N1120A
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:12 pm

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3):
Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
SAN: 6x CR7

I just don't think it will stick.

It could be a fleet utilization thing as well.
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panamair
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:14 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 9):
I'm impressed DL has stayed in the LAX-SFO market. I remember when they introduced this market yet again, last summer, many a.netters were very pessimistic about it being around for no more than the summer season. Here we are a year later with eleven nonstops!

LAX-SFO this time round actually started in summer 2010, with 4x daily flights, not last summer. I believe that last summer was already up to at least 8 or 9x daily (or maybe even more).
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:34 pm

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
It's tough to argue that a market like LAX-SAN needs FC


No one else is doing it (110 miles - 20 minutes) so I'm guessing within a year everybody will be doing it.

Goodbye OO Brasilia 120s.

Goodbye AE E140s   
 
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n901wa
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:13 pm

Im also surprised how full LAX - SFO are. The few times I had to fly up to SFO from LAX on the job, They had to buy me a ticket on UAL, because they couldn't get me there on our flights. PHX was also tuff to fly on, and I had to go thru SLC to get there. I hope it continues, but this time leave out the flying cow ads   Ha Ha
 
C767P
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:04 pm

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3):
I just don't think it will stick.

Everyone said that in Feburary 2010 when DL resumed LAX-SAN.
 
SJUSXM
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:30 pm

MQ runs two CR7s LAX-SAN so there is precedent for FC on the route.

As of a few weeks ago DL had one CR9 on PHX-LAX
AT7, ER3, ER4, ER5, CR7, E70, E75, F100, M82, M83, 722, 732, 738, 752, 762, 763, AB6, 320, 321, 772, 77W
 
jporterfi
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:53 pm

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3):
I just don't think it will stick. It may, but I'm not holding my breath. Wish LAX-MCI was mainline or a E-jet. Long flight on a CRJ.

I see what you mean about the long flight. I had to do ATL-DEN on a OO CR7, which is a little shorter than LAX-MCI. It was cool because I don't fly on CRJs that often, but certainly a ridiculous length for a CRJ.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3):
eh but does a CR7 really make sense on LAX-SAN? (of course most say LAX-SAN doesn't make sense)

I figure it must be economically viable if, currently, between OO (operating in this case as part of Delta Connection and United Express) and MQ, there are 25 flights each way between LAX and SAN.
 
EricR
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:15 pm

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
MCI: 1x CR9
LAS: 4x CR7, 5x CR9
OAK: 4x CR9
PHX: 4x CR7
SMF: 4x CR7
SLC: 2x CR9 (also 2x 320, 3x 757)
SAN: 6x CR7
SFO: 7x CR7, 4x CR9 (and 1x 738)

When AA (MQ) launched PHX-LAX, all 4 flights were on 2 class CRJs. Now all 4 flights are on one class ERDs. I wonder if DL is starting to steal premium passengers from AA while they are in BK - or - if this is a strategy to see if these routes can support a 2 class product.

Speaking of DL strategies, I thought it would be interesting if DL attempted to acquire B6 (and their JFK slots & terminal) while AA was in BK. Seems like it would solve the terminal issue at JFK and provide them with a commanding share of the JFK market.

[Edited 2012-04-24 15:35:28]
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:33 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 18):
Speaking of DL strategies, I thought it would be interesting if DL attempted to acquire B6 (and there JFK slots & terminal) while AA was in BK. Seems like it would solve the terminal issue at JFK and provide them with a commanding share of the JFK market.

Been thinking this same thing for a long time, but let's start another topic!
 
bomber996
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:35 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 19):
Speaking of DL strategies, I thought it would be interesting if DL attempted to acquire B6 (and there JFK slots & terminal) while AA was in BK. Seems like it would solve the terminal issue at JFK and provide them with a commanding share of the JFK market.

I highly doubt this would ever pass through the Regulators. That would give DL just way too much market share for NYC with them already having a big operation at JFK and another big operation at LGA.

Peace   
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zrs70
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:40 pm

Here I was thinking that DL was re-introducing 3 class service on international flights!
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
EricR
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:51 pm

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 20):
I highly doubt this would ever pass through the Regulators. That would give DL just way too much market share for NYC with them already having a big operation at JFK and another big operation at LGA.

Perhaps. However if you are using the entire NYC area as a benchmark, considering UA's massive hub at EWR and AA's large presence at LGA, I would be surprised if DL's entire share of the NYC market exceeded 50% if such a merger took place.

[Edited 2012-04-24 15:53:09]
 
quickmover
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:45 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 9):
On the 4th June 2012,:
LAS: 9x CR9
OAK: 4x CR9
PHX: 4x CR7
SMF: 4x CRJ *upgauged to 4x CR7 on 11 July 2012
SFO: 6x CR7; 4x CR9; 1x 738
MCI: 1x CR9
SLC: 2x CR9; 3x 757; 1x 73H; 1x 320

What do they fly on ATL-LAX or MCO-LAX?
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:55 am

Quoting C767P (Reply 15):

Everyone said that in Feburary 2010 when DL resumed LAX-SAN.

true, I just think they will go back to CRJs. I am truly hopping they are pulling the CRJs to start LAX-FAT/SBA/MRY which they lost with the dumping of the MQ codeshare.

Quoting quickmover (Reply 23):
ATL-LAX

mix of 757/767/777 and somewhere in the 10X daily range.

Quoting quickmover (Reply 23):
MCO-LAX

2x 738 sometimes the morning flight is a 757.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 17):

I figure it must be economically viable if, currently, between OO (operating in this case as part of Delta Connection and United Express) and MQ, there are 25 flights each way between LAX and SAN.

true.

Quoting panamair (Reply 12):

LAX-SFO this time round actually started in summer 2010, with 4x daily flights, not last summer. I believe that last summer was already up to at least 8 or 9x daily (or maybe even more).

yep. 11x daily i do believe. Mainline is back this summer.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 10):

The CR9 carries exactly the same number of passengers in exactly the same configuration, but the CR9 is about a 1,000lbs lighter. My understanding is that the CR9 economics are generally superior.

I do believe so, it just happens that the E-jets are a nicer ride.

Quoting FL787 (Reply 4):

You may get your wish soon.

haha good call.  
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laca773
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:42 am

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 24):
yep. 11x daily i do believe. Mainline is back this summer.
Quoting laca773 (Reply 9):
SFO: 6x CR7; 4x CR9; 1x 738

It is 11 DeltaL1011man. It's in my posting above.

Quoting quickmover (Reply 23):
What do they fly on ATL-LAX or MCO-LAX?

8 June 2012:

ATL: 7x 757; 3x 763; 1x 77L (a/c may vary according to day and flight. )

MSP: 1x 73H; 4x 757; 1x 753; 1x 763 (a/c may vary according to day and flight)

DTW: 3x 73H; 3x 763 (a/c may vary according to day and flight)

MCO: 2x 73H

JFK: 8x 75W (752)
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:04 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 25):
It is 11 DeltaL1011man. It's in my posting above.

i was talking about last summer. It was 11x or 12x daily. All CRJ-700/900
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MAH4546
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:14 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 18):
When AA (MQ) launched PHX-LAX, all 4 flights were on 2 class CRJs. Now all 4 flights are on one class ERDs. I wonder if DL is starting to steal premium passengers from AA while they are in BK - or - if this is a strategy to see if these routes can support a 2 class product.

50 seats RJs are a dead product. They are inefficient and make no financial sense. AA would love nothing more than to rid of them, but it only has 47 CR7s to work with, and must ration them accordingly. DL is very lucky in that it has a lot of large RJs to work with. 3-5 years, I'd be shocked if AA, DL and UA are flying many sub-50 seats RJs. That flying is best left for props.
a.
 
PHX787
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:49 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 25):
ATL: 7x 757; 3x 763; 1x 77L (a/c may vary according to day and flight. )

A 77L to LAX from ATL? Where does it connect to after the first flight?
That might be a flight I want to take!
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B747forever
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:25 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 28):
A 77L to LAX from ATL? Where does it connect to after the first flight?
That might be a flight I want to take!

ATL-LAX-SYD-LAX-ATL.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
PHX787
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:09 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 29):
ATL-LAX-SYD-LAX-ATL.

that's what I thought, thanks.
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coronado
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:22 pm

So does this mean that 100% of the domestic flights ex LAX now have WIFI?
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CIDFlyer
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:27 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 28):

A 77L to LAX from ATL? Where does it connect to after the first flight?
That might be a flight I want to take!
Quoting B747forever (Reply 29):

ATL-LAX-SYD-LAX-ATL.

last year they did a 777 DTW-LAX-SYD and I flew it from DTW to LAX....loved it, it was great!!
 
BDL757
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:01 am

I truly wonder what DL's plans are for LAX. I know this year's Flight Plan calls for 'defining a west coast strategy' in regards to LAX. At a town hall meeting a while back a SVP touched on the subject and said that Delta's main issue at LAX currently is gate space and that it is very crowded at certain times of the day and that is making it difficult to add flights.

He also mentioned LAXPVG but said there's too many carriers flying it currently and AA would need to drop it first. Of course this was said before AA entered bankruptcy and said they were going to beef up service in cornerstone markets by 20% so I doubt American is going to be dropping LAXPVG.
 
PIEAvantiP180
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:11 am

Quoting Coronado (Reply 31):

Yes and no, the two class RJ fleet is still going thru mods and I don't know when all of them are going to be done. As soon as they finish all flights out of LAX will have wifi. That is something they can market because none of the other carriers can claim that yet till WN finishes up with its entire fleet.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:29 am

Quoting Coronado (Reply 31):

not sure if OO is done with mods yet or not, but should be done with-in the year I would think.

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 33):

I think over time LAX-PVG is going to happen with or with out AA/UA in the market. I think the market will be to large not to be in it. JIMO.
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BDL757
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:43 am

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 35):
Quoting BDL757 (Reply 33):

I think over time LAX-PVG is going to happen with or with out AA/UA in the market. I think the market will be to large not to be in it. JIMO.

I concur. They just need to do something about acquiring more gate space.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:26 am

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 36):

I concur. They just need to do something about acquiring more gate space.

I can think of a way to do that.....buuutt I'll make some airline fan boys on here mad so I'll walk away.
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BDL757
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RE: DL To Offer First Class On All LAX Flights

Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:06 am

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 37):

Haha. Let me guess, buying/merging with Alaska?

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