Ps76
Topic Author
Posts: 1015
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:52 pm

Experiemental Aircraft Emergency Landing On Road.

Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:05 pm

Hi!

Apologies if this is in the wrong forum or if it has been posted aready. A few days ago I found this video on Youtube of an experiemental aircraft with an engine failure landing on a road in Florida. It's an amazing video although I find it quite disturbing to watch. To me it looks like a combination of skill/training/a cool head/ and luck which kept these guys alive.

Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3MlRRM9tpA

What do you think?

Many thanks for looking,

Pierre
 
BoeingGuy
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Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

RE: Experiemental Aircraft Emergency Landing On Road.

Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:16 pm

There was a thread on this several weeks ago. There was some debate whether it was real or staged. I voted for staged - you know, gee they just coincidentally had the cameras going when that engine fail emergency happened. And there just happened to be no cars on the road at that moment.

However, several other posters (and some people within my work group) were familiar with the video and incident and stated that it was in fact a real unplanned emergency.

As you allude to, this could have turned out very differently if the conditions were different.
 
Ps76
Topic Author
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Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:52 pm

RE: Experiemental Aircraft Emergency Landing On Road.

Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:24 pm

Hi!

I don't know if it's real or staged but one thing I wondered was why didn't they just make a water landing. There looked like there was plenty of calm water which was well within reach. Wouldn't that be less risky and easier to do?

Any opinions welcome.

Many thanks,

Pierre
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Experiemental Aircraft Emergency Landing On Road.

Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:48 pm

Quoting Ps76 (Reply 2):


I don't know if it's real or staged but one thing I wondered was why didn't they just make a water landing. There looked like there was plenty of calm water which was well within reach. Wouldn't that be less risky and easier to do?

That was also discussed in the recent thread. Perhaps they would have it if were their only option, but someone stated that it would be much more risky. More of a chance of catching an engine or wingtip in the water and flipping the plane. You'll note they did look at that nearby field.
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: Experiemental Aircraft Emergency Landing On Road.

Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:52 pm

I apologize because I can't view this video at work but I am assumming this is the one that happened 3 years or so ago with an experimental plane on its way to Sun N Fun when the engine konked out somewhere near Winter Haven and the pilot dropped a few beeped out F bombs but landed on a very empty divided highway and pulled into a parking lot.

If this is the video, the pilot was actually a student that was with his instructor.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Experiemental Aircraft Emergency Landing On Road.

Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:00 am

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 4):
I apologize because I can't view this video at work but I am assumming this is the one that happened 3 years or so ago with an experimental plane on its way to Sun N Fun when the engine konked out somewhere near Winter Haven and the pilot dropped a few beeped out F bombs but landed on a very empty divided highway and pulled into a parking lot.

If this is the video, the pilot was actually a student that was with his instructor.

That would be the one. Like I said, there was a lengthy tread on this just a few weeks ago.
 
KELPkid
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RE: Experiemental Aircraft Emergency Landing On Road.

Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:09 am

Quoting Ps76 (Reply 2):
I don't know if it's real or staged but one thing I wondered was why didn't they just make a water landing. There looked like there was plenty of calm water which was well within reach. Wouldn't that be less risky and easier to do?

Land planes make horrible watercraft...landing gear tends to get ripped of and then (forcibly) flips the plane over    If you are still conscious after the water has caved in the windshield ad 60-70 MPH (which often happens in small planes in ditching attempts), then you have to deal with the water itself. If the water is cold, you probably have a few minutes before hypothermia sets in, so you'd better hope someone in a nearby vessel saw you. Even if it is warm water (like the coast of Florida), you'd better be a good swimmer or have a flotation device handy. You can only tread water for so long before exhaustion will set in, and you'd better be a darn good swimmer to make a swim for shore. Normally, flotation devices aren't carried on board GA aircraft, unless you are intentionally flying over water. There are courses which teach water ditching techniques (taught by ferry pilots usually), but the consensus is don't ditch in water unless it is your last hope   
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: Experiemental Aircraft Emergency Landing On Road.

Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:51 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 5):
That would be the one. Like I said, there was a lengthy tread on this just a few weeks ago.

As there was 3 years ago when this happened
 
Ps76
Topic Author
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Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:52 pm

RE: Experiemental Aircraft Emergency Landing On Road.

Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:44 am

Hi!

Thanks. I'll have a look for the other threads. Apologies for the repeat post but thanks for the info.

Pierre
 
Maverick623
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RE: Experiemental Aircraft Emergency Landing On Road.

Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:55 am

Quoting Ps76 (Reply 2):
There looked like there was plenty of calm water

I couldn't tell the condition of the water from the video.... plus, as was mentioned, water landings are pretty much a last resort.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
rfields5421
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RE: Experiemental Aircraft Emergency Landing On Road.

Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:18 pm

Quoting Ps76 (Reply 2):
There looked like there was plenty of calm water which was well within reach. Wouldn't that be less risky and easier to do?

Water landing is the last resort for small fixed gear aircraft.

The plane WILL flip over violently when the gear grabs the water. It is the same effect as running into a three foot high concrete wall, or a three foot deep ditch while landing.

One of the first things my flight instructor told me - take it down in trees rather than on water - better survival odds.
 
Ps76
Topic Author
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RE: Experiemental Aircraft Emergency Landing On Road.

Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:29 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 10):
One of the first things my flight instructor told me - take it down in trees rather than on water - better survival odds.

Wow! I never thought it would be like that. I know the shape of the airplane is different but makes me wonder how lucky or skilled was that US Airways flight which landed safely in the Hudson river. I know I've seen a video of a hijacked airliner running out of fuel and ditching near a beach and that outcome was tragic as the plane completely flipped.

Many thanks,

Pierre
 
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litz
Posts: 1918
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RE: Experiemental Aircraft Emergency Landing On Road.

Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:58 pm

The Ethiopian 767 that cartwheeled caught a wing tip (or engine) on a submerged shoal, which ripped the wing off.

Unbalanced lift then flipped the aircraft. Same thing, essentially, as the various MD10/11 crashes where the aircraft flipped onto its back ... asymmetrical lift due to lack of one wing.

The USair airbus in the Hudson was controlled all the way down, and they got the angle perfect when planing into the water ... there's pretty much only one way to put an aircraft into water successfully, and they pulled it off.

Had they dipped a wingtip, or struck a submerged object, or any of a host of other things ... very different outcome.
 
Ps76
Topic Author
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RE: Experiemental Aircraft Emergency Landing On Road.

Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:04 pm

Quoting litz (Reply 12):
The Ethiopian 767 that cartwheeled caught a wing tip (or engine) on a submerged shoal, which ripped the wing off.

Unbalanced lift then flipped the aircraft. Same thing, essentially, as the various MD10/11 crashes where the aircraft flipped onto its back ... asymmetrical lift due to lack of one wing.

The USair airbus in the Hudson was controlled all the way down, and they got the angle perfect when planing into the water ... there's pretty much only one way to put an aircraft into water successfully, and they pulled it off.

Had they dipped a wingtip, or struck a submerged object, or any of a host of other things ... very different outcome.

Hi!

Thanks for the info sir. I learned quite a few new things reading this. Makes me think those US Airways passengers really owe a lot to their pilot and luck. I heard he also flew gliders so was used to landing without power. I wonder if that helped at all.

Pierre
 
rfields5421
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Experiemental Aircraft Emergency Landing On Road.

Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:59 pm

Quoting Ps76 (Reply 11):
Wow! I never thought it would be like that.

Light aircraft like the one in the video weigh only a thousand pounds or two. Few are over 2,000 lbs. At those weights, the wheels stricking something solid will cause the aircraft to flip because the impact far below the COG and center of motion.

Heck, you can put a C-172 on its nose by braking too hard on landing. Almost any taildragger will flip onto its nose under heavy braking.

At 50-60 mph sticking the wheels in the water is like hitting something solid.

One of the things light aircraft pilots learn is that even something up to 10,000 lbs is at danger of flipping. The internet has plenty of videos and photos of Cessna Caraven or other float equipped aircraft flipping over when they try to land on the floats and accidentally put the wheels in the floats down.

If you absolutely have to go down in water - stall the aircraft a couple feet above the water and drop it in. Hopefully it will not flip.

Quoting Ps76 (Reply 11):
makes me wonder how lucky or skilled was that US Airways flight which landed safely in the Hudson river.

Any airline transport pilot should have been able to make the water landing successfully. Note - they kept the gear UP for the landing as they are trained for ditching.

Water landings always call for the gear to be up.

Sully's greatest skill that day was recognizing within a few seconds that ditching in the Hudson was the only option available to put the aircraft down not in a built-up area. While some pilots in the simulator have made it back to LGA - they knew what was going to occur and turned immediately upon the bird strike. Even then it was a 50% success rate. If they took even enough time to say "What was that?" - they could not make it back.

Right decision, right time under tremendous pressure.
 
NASCARAirforce
Posts: 2452
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:27 am

RE: Experiemental Aircraft Emergency Landing On Road.

Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:27 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 6):
Land planes make horrible watercraft...landing gear tends to get ripped of and then (forcibly) flips the plane over
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 9):
I couldn't tell the condition of the water from the video.... plus, as was mentioned, water landings are pretty much a last resort.

Remember this is Florida too - lakes are FULL of alligators, if you happen to survive the water landing, do you want to deal with some hungry gators?

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