LipeGIG
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:04 am

As the previous thread (Part 2) become too long, with more than 250 replies, we are now opening a new one for the continuation of this discussion.

Please find the previous one here:

Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 2 (by SA7700 Mar 24 2012 in Civil Aviation)


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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:41 am

Ok, there was one mention during a JP Morgan Webcast. Has there been anything more substantial to the rumor? I've found the discussion fascinating, but have we any further tidbits to fuel the rumor flame?

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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:54 am

There is a lot of meat to this rumor. In fact its more than a rumor, its an option.

The fact is there is no firm deal in place. The fact is that this is being looked at and is being considered as an option for DL to acquire a small narrowbody and for WN to unload the 717s.

The rumor is around all of the specifics of the deal and whether or not it will actually be made.

Give this story a few more weeks, we should all now more in the next 1-2 months as to how both sides will proceed.
 
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Mon May 07, 2012 1:40 pm

Anything new on this?
 
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Mon May 07, 2012 5:56 pm

Nothing new really other than more rumor of the same.

Negotiations are supposedly still going on however it is believed that DL is in the driver seat as they are in a position to drive the deal they want or they could easily defect to Airbus and get the A319 if the price is right.

Rumor is that some type of decision (announcement?) is supposedly going to be made by the end of the month.
 
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Mon May 07, 2012 5:57 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 4):
Negotiations are supposedly still going on however it is believed that DL is in the driver seat as they are in a position to drive the deal they want or they could easily defect to Airbus and get the A319 if the price is right.

Hasn't Anderson said that he finds the CASM of the 319 "incredibly challenging"
 
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Mon May 07, 2012 6:09 pm

Yes, hence why they've added seats and would likely add more if/when they do mods to add slim-line seats.

That being said if the ownership cost is right, it could offset the operating costs.

It leads many to wonder how serious DL is in regards to getting more A319s but it can be used as a bargaining chip. Depends to what length Airbus wants DL's business and for what reasons to keep this strategic customer happy.
 
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Mon May 07, 2012 8:57 pm

As far as some type of negotiations going on it is no longer a rumor in my book.
We had the VP of SWA maintenance come and present a power point presentations recently concerning the future of MX.
I was not there but I saw the printout of the presentations and in it contained the costs to fly each a/c (block hr, casm) , fleet retirement options, and a little blurb that said they are waiting for an answer from delta this month. It also noted that if the offloading of the 717 were to occur it would be over 4 years.
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Mon May 07, 2012 8:59 pm

Here's what I can provide on the latest rumors:

DL will take ownership of the WN leases from Boeing. Because these leases were agreed to while the 717 was still in production, the terms (monthly payments) are not equitable to the current market value for a 717 lease agreement. To counterbalance, WN will provide compensation to DL for each 717, through the length of the lease agreement. In addition, DL is requesting that WN complete a minor mod to the BR715, prior to transfer. The mod is said to increase the service length between overhauls and improve the reliability numbers, which are already respectable. In return DL may need to provide WN with 737 delivery slots and/or ATL gate consolidation.

Either way, I expect to see 717s in DL colors by Q1 of 2013. First delivery potentially in Dec 2012 or Jan 2013, with all 88 on property by mid 2014.

As for Airbus, there are said to be some available A319/A320s of 2005-07 vintage that are being steeply discounted. If the price is right, DL may act on these too. Perhaps someone else can shed more light on this development.
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Mon May 07, 2012 9:10 pm

Quoting fadecfault (Reply 7):
It also noted that if the offloading of the 717 were to occur it would be over 4 years.

With the additional 737 slots, I think it will turn out to be about half that length of time. If it takes up to 4 years, there will have had to been a hold-up in the way of contract agreement, approval, NB deliveries, etc. "Immediate" seems to be the mindset from GK and WN.
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Mon May 07, 2012 9:23 pm

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 8):
DL will take ownership of the WN leases from Boeing. Because these leases were agreed to while the 717 was still in production, the terms (monthly payments) are not equitable to the current market value for a 717 lease agreement. To counterbalance, WN will provide compensation to DL for each 717, through the length of the lease agreement. In addition, DL is requesting that WN complete a minor mod to the BR715, prior to transfer. The mod is said to increase the service length between overhauls and improve the reliability numbers, which are already respectable. In return DL may need to provide WN with 737 delivery slots and/or ATL gate consolidation.

In this rumor, it sure seems like WN has to do everything and DL gets a fresh "new" plane. Doesn't seem right.
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Mon May 07, 2012 9:30 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 2):
The rumor is around all of the specifics of the deal and whether or not it will actually be made.

Give this story a few more weeks, we should all now more in the next 1-2 months as to how both sides will proceed.

So we have more tidbits on talks. Thank you. Too much of the prior threads were into the speculation. So I will wait to see the results.

Quoting PHXA340 (Reply 5):
Hasn't Anderson said that he finds the CASM of the 319 "incredibly challenging"

I'm certain Airbus and the engine vendor (IAE?) could make a deal to interest DL.

Quoting fadecfault (Reply 7):
I was not there but I saw the printout of the presentations and in it contained the costs to fly each a/c (block hr, casm) , fleet retirement options, and a little blurb that said they are waiting for an answer from delta this month. It also noted that if the offloading of the 717 were to occur it would be over 4 years.

Not that is interesting... and a reasonable time frame. It would explain how Boeing would transition from the 737NG to the 737MAX.  

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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Mon May 07, 2012 9:38 pm

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 10):
In this rumor, it sure seems like WN has to do everything and DL gets a fresh "new" plane. Doesn't seem right.

AS a Delta retiree, it seems like a good deal all around to me
 
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Mon May 07, 2012 10:06 pm

Southwest wants to get rid of them and probably adjust ATL gates as well so they will need to be the ones offering delta a great deal. Let's see if this happens I have no doubt negotiations have happened but both sides probably need to analyze if they gain enough in the deal to finalize it
 
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Mon May 07, 2012 10:08 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 11):
I'm certain Airbus and the engine vendor (IAE?) could make a deal to interest DL.

CFM  
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Mon May 07, 2012 11:47 pm

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 10):
In this rumor, it sure seems like WN has to do everything and DL gets a fresh "new" plane. Doesn't seem right.

Its called Supply and Demand. It is completely fair.
 
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Tue May 08, 2012 12:05 am

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 10):

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 8):
DL will take ownership of the WN leases from Boeing. Because these leases were agreed to while the 717 was still in production, the terms (monthly payments) are not equitable to the current market value for a 717 lease agreement. To counterbalance, WN will provide compensation to DL for each 717, through the length of the lease agreement. In addition, DL is requesting that WN complete a minor mod to the BR715, prior to transfer. The mod is said to increase the service length between overhauls and improve the reliability numbers, which are already respectable. In return DL may need to provide WN with 737 delivery slots and/or ATL gate consolidation.

In this rumor, it sure seems like WN has to do everything and DL gets a fresh "new" plane. Doesn't seem right.

It is very simple. Southwest does not want to keep the 717s. It wants them GONE. There does not look like there are airlines or leasing companies lining up to take the 717s off Southwest's hands. Therefore, Delta or any other potentially interested party is pretty much able to set the terms for acquiring this orphan aircraft fleet of 717s.   
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Tue May 08, 2012 2:25 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 13):
Southwest wants to get rid of them and probably adjust ATL gates as well so they will need to be the ones offering delta a great deal. Let's see if this happens I have no doubt negotiations have happened but both sides probably need to analyze if they gain enough in the deal to finalize it

Could this mean that WN would potentially trade the old Air Tran gates in Concourse C that fit 717's for some gates somewhere else? Maybe Concourse B? I remember reading one of the major concerns was that the old Air Tran gates are sized for 717's which have a shorter wingspan than the 737's that WN wants to consolidate their fleet to. How does the 717's wingspan compare to the MD-88's, MD-90's, and Airbus aircraft? Would these aircraft also be able to fit at the old Air Tran Gates? Seems to me that if there is substance to the deal it might be a win for both DL and WN in this case at least.

Peace   
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Tue May 08, 2012 2:52 am

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 17):
Could this mean that WN would potentially trade the old Air Tran gates in Concourse C that fit 717's for some gates somewhere else? Maybe Concourse B? I remember reading one of the major concerns was that the old Air Tran gates are sized for 717's which have a shorter wingspan than the 737's that WN wants to consolidate their fleet to. How does the 717's wingspan compare to the MD-88's, MD-90's, and Airbus aircraft? Would these aircraft also be able to fit at the old Air Tran Gates? Seems to me that if there is substance to the deal it might be a win for both DL and WN in this case at least.

No chance. DL just went through a very extensive gate re-alignment last summer on all concourses (T-B). T can now park up to a 767 on every gate except T8 (up to a 753). T2 can park up to a 744 and T3 can park up to an 333/777. A concourse can now park 75Ws wingtip to wingtip and they also removed a few gates to allow more spacing to have a few more 767 gates. They did the same thing on B. No to mention C/D does not have the below wing real estate required to run DL's baggage OPS. B concourse received a huge bag room mod just last year and added a larger baggage re-route area on the south-side. They also invested close to $100M between 2007 and 2010 upgraded an underground conveyor system that runs bags from the domestic bag room on T, under A and to the B bag room and nto the brand new C bag room.

In short, if there is going to be gate swaps, it will be between C an D; not the mainline gates on B. Either way, there will be some $$$ involved. DL's gates on both C and D are spaced for RJs. For WN to consolidate on either concourse, gates will have to be removed to allow the parking of 737s.

I've always said it only makes sense for DL/FL to eventually operate out of one concourse. Either DL move to D and FL to C or the other way around. My personal feelings is that DL OPS will consolidate on C with DL giving up the D-North gates.
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Tue May 08, 2012 3:21 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 18):
In short, if there is going to be gate swaps, it will be between C an D; not the mainline gates on B. Either way, there will be some $$$ involved. DL's gates on both C and D are spaced for RJs. For WN to consolidate on either concourse, gates will have to be removed to allow the parking of 737s.

Sorry to get off topic, but I also remember hearing that T was going to become the "business market" concourse with LGA, BOS, ORD, etc. leaving out of T only. Is that still the current plan?
 
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Tue May 08, 2012 4:23 am

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 8):
In addition, DL is requesting that WN complete a minor mod to the BR715, prior to transfer. The mod is said to increase the service length between overhauls and improve the reliability numbers, which are already respectable. In return DL may need to provide WN with 737 delivery slots and/or ATL gate consolidation.

I'm curious to know more about the mod. All 717 operators have want a BR715 with longer service intervals between overhauls. That has been the one major weakness of the 717. If DL (or Boeing or RR) is willing to pay for it... Good news!

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 8):
Either way, I expect to see 717s in DL colors by Q1 of 2013. First delivery potentially in Dec 2012 or Jan 2013, with all 88 on property by mid 2014.

That seems like an amazingly fast transition. Then again, the most economical transition is one within 12 months.

I'm curious to see if this deal happens. There is a huge difference between negotiation and announcement.

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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Tue May 08, 2012 5:16 am

Quoting FURUREFA (Reply 19):
Sorry to get off topic, but I also remember hearing that T was going to become the "business market" concourse with LGA, BOS, ORD, etc. leaving out of T only. Is that still the current plan?

First i've heard about that. That would require very careful a/c planning and gate assignments. And knowing how the gate keeping system works in ATL, i'm not sure how flexibile such an idea will be. however, T generally sees about the same departures everyday. Can't speak for AM but PM; PTY, SJO, SJU (76Q departure), GDL, MEX, BSB, LAX, JAX, BOG, NAS, LAS and some others come to mind. Those operate out of T pretty consistently. BOS, LGA, ORD seems to be a mixed bag.
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Tue May 08, 2012 7:43 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 21):

I can't dig up where I saw that (was in some public Delta communication earlier this year), but that was the plan, in conjunction with F opening up and becoming fully functional. This would all happen later this year after the opening and after summer, not right away. The idea was that since they could gate almost all the int'l flights that currently depart on T/A/B on E/F with the additional gates, and since T is right past the TSA checkpoint and will suddenly have all this available gate space, that the high-frequency departures to business destinations (LGA, DCA, ORD, BOS) could all run out of T to give business fliers the greatest convenience. Whether ALL the departures can go from T is debatable but at least the large majority could gate there in theory, say two gates each for LGA and DCA with three gates shared between BOS and ORD. The domestic to domestic turns could fill in the vacated gate space in the rest of the airport left by the high-frequency flights, and voila! My speculation here, but if they did that then T could possibly be turned into a Shuttle-ish concourse, it already feels kinda isolated as it is.
 
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Tue May 08, 2012 11:14 pm

Quoting adtall (Reply 22):

ot doubting you at all. Just hadn't seen any literature on the idea. Cool idea in theory I guess. In practice, we'll have to see  
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Tue May 08, 2012 11:42 pm

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 17):
How does the 717's wingspan compare to the MD-88's, MD-90's, and Airbus aircraft?

The 717's wingspan is comparable to that of a DC-9 (-30/40/50); which, I believe, is narrower than all of the above.

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 17):
I remember reading one of the major concerns was that the old Air Tran gates are sized for 717's which have a shorter wingspan than the 737's that WN wants to consolidate their fleet to.

Back when FL first started taking delivery of their 73Gs; they originally declined getting the blended winglets because of their narrower gate spaces at ATL. They obviously changed their changed their minds (on the winglets) a short time later; likely due to rising fuel costs.

[Edited 2012-05-08 16:43:56]
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Tue May 08, 2012 11:53 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 24):
ck when FL first started taking delivery of their 73Gs; they originally declined getting the blended winglets because of their narrower gate spaces at ATL. They obviously changed their changed their minds (on the winglets) a short time later; likely due to rising fuel costs.

I think the whole gate spacing thing is a tad overblown and a non-starter in the grand scheme of things. Moving forward, they will do what they are currently doing an hat DL has been doing on C and D for the past 2 summers. When a 737 pulls into a 717 gate, the adjacent gate will be temporarily out of service until they turn it. When a 32X/737 is on C30/47/48, 32/49(has been shut down for almost 2 years now)/50 goes out of service.

Long term, they will simply have to re-align their gates to fit 737s side by side. They will net a loss in gates bu s it is, FL is down from its peak anyway. All they'll see is an increase in gate usage.
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Wed May 09, 2012 12:26 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 25):
Long term, they will simply have to re-align their gates to fit 737s side by side. They will net a loss in gates bu s it is, FL is down from its peak anyway. All they'll see is an increase in gate usage.

   It will be made up a little via gauge (738) too.

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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Wed May 09, 2012 12:31 am

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 10):
In this rumor, it sure seems like WN has to do everything and DL gets a fresh "new" plane. Doesn't seem right.

I think WN is cutting their losses given the situation. Effectively the best way out of a jam without the trump card of lease renegotiation through bankruptcy.
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Wed May 09, 2012 12:59 am

Seen Airtran manuals in the TOC. Expect an announcement this week. (I was told we would have one this afternoon but I don't see any as yet)
 
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Wed May 09, 2012 1:53 am

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 27):
I think WN is cutting their losses given the situation.

I suspect there will be a middle ground. Boeing doesn't want to 'rake WN over the coals.' For either a sale of the 717s or a longer lease, they will work with WN/DL. Boeing wants the highest present value for the lease + residual value. I doubt DL wants the 717 on short leases, which is what would be the implication if the monthly lease payment remained constant. If the lease duration is extended, one would expect a reduction in the monthly (quarterly?) payment. Heck, knowing DL, it could be a sale.

Quoting airbuske (Reply 28):
Seen Airtran manuals in the TOC. Expect an announcement this week.

That would be exciting. However, little details can drag this out weeks or even a month. We're talking big money. Its worth it to haggle.  

In particular with Boeing over further 737 delivery slots. (Perhaps for DL *and* WN. I see no reason Boeing doesn't want to keep both happy, if it is profitable, that is.)   

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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Wed May 09, 2012 1:56 am

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 8):
Either way, I expect to see 717s in DL colors by Q1 of 2013. First delivery potentially in Dec 2012 or Jan 2013, with all 88 on property by mid 2014.

To add aircraft that fast at 4 per month over a year and a half is not possible with bridge checks and even just changing out seats and interior colors. Seat suppliers could not supply that quickly unless they were ordered now and even then the first aircraft in Jan. 2013 is a stretch with a obtaining a new interior STC.
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Wed May 09, 2012 2:05 am

One iteration of the rumor says 12 on property for DL by the end of 2012 with deliveries going at 3-4 per month through 2014.

Plus they don't need new seats. They could do like what they did with the NW fleet which they converted hundreds of aircraft in a matter of months. New seat covers and carpet can be done overnight.
 
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Wed May 09, 2012 2:26 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 31):
One iteration of the rumor says 12 on property for DL by the end of 2012 with deliveries going at 3-4 per month through 2014.

Plus they don't need new seats. They could do like what they did with the NW fleet which they converted hundreds of aircraft in a matter of months. New seat covers and carpet can be done overnight.

If the FL seat layout stayed the same, then it could be done that quickly with some engineering up front. Seat covers and carpeting cannot be changed without flammability testing first. If they decide to add an Economy Comfort section or any other change then my original assessment is correct, but I would think DL would want slim lines to reduce weight and maximize capacity plus why the need to add these so fast?
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Wed May 09, 2012 2:29 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 29):
If the lease duration is extended, one would expect a reduction in the monthly (quarterly?) payment. Heck, knowing DL, it could be a sale.

It's definitely a *win* for DL. As the DC-9s finally go out, a mainline type comes in.

It's also a win for Boeing, keeps them flying (parts).
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Wed May 09, 2012 2:40 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 21):

First i've heard about that. That would require very careful a/c planning and gate assignments. And knowing how the gate keeping system works in ATL, i'm not sure how flexibile such an idea will be. however, T generally sees about the same departures everyday. Can't speak for AM but PM; PTY, SJO, SJU (76Q departure), GDL, MEX, BSB, LAX, JAX, BOG, NAS, LAS and some others come to mind. Those operate out of T pretty consistently. BOS, LGA, ORD seems to be a mixed bag.

Anderson said somewhere that they will start doing Key business markets from T. We will see, I'm with you seem like a pain just know how ATL works.
Also it may have something to do with UA. IMO they will end up on D and Delta will take those gates on T. (and hopefully open the old RCC as a Skyclub)

Quoting tztristar500 (Reply 32):

No need to do it at first. If they want them now then they take them with the FL seats and such and just recover them ala the NW merger and then once they get X amount of frames in the fleet they can start sending them in for a deeper mod. Or wait for them to have HMVs and just do them at the HMV.
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Wed May 09, 2012 12:45 pm

After speaking to a ALPA rep for one of the regionals, apparently, they were told that they would like to raise the scope for Delta pilots to 125 seats from the 76 seats as of now so these could come on property.

Of course this is what I heard...
 
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Wed May 09, 2012 1:16 pm

I think once we get a press release or announcement or something like that, (which at this point seems to be inevitable) the thread title should be changed to "CONFIRMED: FL 717s Going To DL" or something like that.
 
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Wed May 09, 2012 1:24 pm

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 35):
After speaking to a ALPA rep for one of the regionals, apparently, they were told that they would like to raise the scope for Delta pilots to 125 seats from the 76 seats as of now so these could come on property.

Of course this is what I heard...

That person is frankly has no clue. Note they are an ALPA rep for a regional.

Delta pilots will under no circumstances allow scope to increase in seat count. DL management has never said anything that indicates a change in scope is necessary to get the 717 on property. The 717 would be flown by DL mainline pilots.
 
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Wed May 09, 2012 2:04 pm

Quoting FURUREFA (Reply 19):

Sorry to get off topic, but I also remember hearing that T was going to become the "business market" concourse with LGA, BOS, ORD, etc. leaving out of T only. Is that still the current plan?

I'm pretty sure Delta tried this out of T around 10 years ago. Anyone else remember this?

I would guess any BIG announcement usually comes on a Thursday. Or at lease they use to follow that schedule.
 
cv640
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Wed May 09, 2012 2:21 pm

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 35):
After speaking to a ALPA rep for one of the regionals, apparently, they were told that they would like to raise the scope for Delta pilots to 125 seats from the 76 seats as of now so these could come on property.

I'm sure Delta would like changes to our scope but there is no way Delta pilots would sign off on it. If ALPA presents that to us, I'm sure they'd be voted off the property as fast as an election could be scheduled
 
KingAir200
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Wed May 09, 2012 2:29 pm

Quoting cv640 (Reply 39):
If ALPA presents that to us, I'm sure they'd be voted off the property as fast as an election could be scheduled

Might just be that big happening the DPA has been looking for.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Wed May 09, 2012 3:19 pm

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 35):
After speaking to a ALPA rep for one of the regionals, apparently, they were told that they would like to raise the scope for Delta pilots to 125 seats from the 76 seats as of now so these could come on property.

Of course this is what I heard...

     

What are THEY smokin!! because I want some!! LMFAO

  
What gets measured gets done.
 
NWAROOSTER
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Wed May 09, 2012 3:54 pm

Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 40):

Quoting cv640 (Reply 39):
If ALPA presents that to us, I'm sure they'd be voted off the property as fast as an election could be scheduled

Might just be that big happening the DPA has been looking for.

ALPA would have to be pretty stupid to allow any scope change involving increasing passenger seats. Delta would probably like having the DPA, if that would be the Delta Pilots Association. Delta may be wiling to stir the pot to unseat ALPA.
Northwest management, including Richard, held a party in Building A when AMFA defeated the IAM. Everyone saw what Northwest did to AMFA and the mechanics in 2005 with the "strike" and bankruptcy. Delta filed bankruptcy on the same day as Northwest and I do NOT think that was any coincidence. Richard was the head of United Health at the time, but I think he had some input with the "strike" and bankruptcies in 2005. I felt at the time Richard had went to United Health so as not to muddy his name and reputation with what was going to happen at Northwest.
I am sure Delta would be more than willing to take on the DPA.   
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
KingAir200
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Wed May 09, 2012 4:18 pm

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 42):
Delta would probably like having the DPA, if that would be the Delta Pilots Association.

It would be. My comment was somewhat tongue in cheek, however, as the 125 seat scope is ridiculous.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Wed May 09, 2012 4:20 pm

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 42):
Northwest management, including Richard, held a party in Building A when AMFA defeated the IAM. Everyone saw what Northwest did to AMFA and the mechanics in 2005 with the "strike" and bankruptcy. Delta filed bankruptcy on the same day as Northwest and I do NOT think that was any coincidence. Richard was the head of United Health at the time, but I think he had some input with the "strike" and bankruptcies in 2005. I felt at the time Richard had went to United Health so as not to muddy his name and reputation with what was going to happen at Northwest.

That's a great story, got any more good ones?
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Wed May 09, 2012 7:38 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 37):

Delta management was part of the YX....they would love nothing more than to farm out as much flying as they could, they just can't.

Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 40):

HA!

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 41):

Nothing. ASA pilots union should be pushing up. But the bigger and more powerful DALPA should be pushing down. IMO the RJ unions see the end is near(at least for a good bit of them) so they are going to be pushing for more flying and more flows.

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 42):

uhh 2 things
ALPA has already given up way to much scope as is, 125 would surprise very few people. (that is, if they sent a TA for vote with it. I would say very little chance DALPA members would vote yes)
If DPA is anything close to the APA or SWAPA (?) then Delta wants no part of it. Everything I have seen/heard about DPA is being much more like the APA. Delta loves DALPA because they are buddy buddy. A union that isn't worthless would be a pain for delta.
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
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litz
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Wed May 09, 2012 7:54 pm

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 38):
I'm pretty sure Delta tried this out of T around 10 years ago. Anyone else remember this?

Big difference is now you have the new international terminal coming online ...

Used to be they would send some international flights out from T (with arrivals @ E), now those will consolidate to E and F, and T can be dedicated purely to high volume domestic traffic.

There is - no question - a very positive application to your frequent business traveller to have them be able to walk into the terminal, and literally hang a 90-degree turn, and be practically at their gate.
 
bobnwa
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Wed May 09, 2012 7:59 pm

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 45):
uhh 2 things
ALPA has already given up way to much scope as is, 125 would surprise very few people. (that is, if they sent a TA for vote with it. I would say very little chance DALPA members would vote yes)
If DPA is anything close to the APA or SWAPA (?) then Delta wants no part of it. Everything I have seen/heard about DPA is being much more like the APA. Delta loves DALPA because they are buddy buddy. A union that isn't worthless would be a pain for delta.

Are you a Delta pilot or a member of DPA,APA,SWAPA,DALPA, that gives you insider info on this topic? If you aren't a member of any, how can you make the above statements?
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Wed May 09, 2012 11:44 pm

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 45):
Nothing. ASA pilots union should be pushing up. But the bigger and more powerful DALPA should be pushing down. IMO the RJ unions see the end is near(at least for a good bit of them) so they are going to be pushing for more flying and more flows.

My point was that they must be smoking something to think that such an idea would EVER past muster. Not gonna happen..
What gets measured gets done.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3

Thu May 10, 2012 1:22 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 48):

worth a shot to ask. Think about EV(is it still EV?) and all the pilots that are going to end up jobless due to parking of 50 seaters of the next 5 years. Its their unions job to push for more Delta/United flying. I just hope DALPA/UALPA don't screw it up like they did with 70/76 seaters.
New airliners.net web site sucks.