Eurohub
Topic Author
Posts: 235
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:11 pm

Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:27 pm

Flybe - the British regional airline has announced a radical departure from its LCC roots by launching a three tier ticketing system designed to attract a wider range of customers. According to the PR on their website, they seek to "make flying better" by repositioning its brand and product offering to "positively differentiate it from some of the negative perceptions of low cost travel"

The new ticket types are: -
Essentials - 10kg hand baggage and seat selection at check-in
New Economy - 20kg hold luggage (in addition to 10kg hand baggage), free seat selection at booking and changeable
Plus - full flexible with 40kg hold luggage, fast-track security, lounge access and complimentary food and drink

Plus is still as eye-wateringly expensive as their old Economy Plus flexible offering but New Economy is surprisingly reasonable with fares starting from as little as GBP 50 one-way. As an example, I've booked a trip BHX-STR for mid-June and paid GBP 150 return for New Economy whereas Essentials would have cost me GBP 100 and Plus GBP 755. I needed to take a bag and prefer to select my seats in advance.

Using debit cards no longer attracts a fee and credit card users are charged a flat fee per trip rather than the 'per passenger, per leg' fees preferred by some airlines - a fee that will more closely reflect the actual fees levied by the banks.

Further service enhancements are planned for later in the year to include free inflight entertainment using a wi-fi connection and other, as yet unnamed improvements to follow. A TV advertising campaign will also follow in due course featuring real BE crew members. These developments follow hot on the heels of their announcement of a regional hub at MAN.

I would guess that this is BE's response to developments at BD - not necessarily the IAG acquisition, because this looks too well thought out to have been constructed since that deal was confirmed, but perhaps knowing that the BD as we knew it would ultimately disappear.

From a personal perspective, I have a lot of respect for an airline that strives for transparency and fairness in an industry littered with clandestine charges and additional fees for stuff that used to be included (I fly FR and WW often enough); and one that is bold enough to recognise that travellers from the UK regions want to fly short-haul and domestic from those regions ought to continue to be successful. But that's just my opinion - what do you guys think?

http://www.flybe.com/corporate/media/news/1204/26.htm

Regards,
Eurohub
Forget A vs B - Give me E or BAe any day of the week!
 
PlymSpotter
Posts: 10002
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:32 am

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:13 pm

I came across their new website last night. The previous one wasn't great but was simple, inviting and intuitive, whilst the new one is cold, confusing and not at all user friendly - I was booking flights with somebody who runs a large web design company and his words were not kind at all. Step backwards there in my opinion.

Quoting Eurohub (Thread starter):
a radical departure from its LCC roots

I'm not sure if these are your words or theirs, but their roots were definitely not as an LCC.

Quoting Eurohub (Thread starter):
According to the PR on their website, they seek to "make flying better" by repositioning its brand and product offering to "positively differentiate it from some of the negative perceptions of low cost travel"

From my experience the public perception of FlyBe is that they are 'a worse rip off than Ryanair' - I've heard that time and time again, compounded by their generally higher fares. No doubt this has been damaging their image, it would appear enough for them to take action like this.


Quoting Eurohub (Thread starter):
I would guess that this is BE's response to developments at BD - not necessarily the IAG acquisition, because this looks too well thought out to have been constructed since that deal was confirmed, but perhaps knowing that the BD as we knew it would ultimately disappear.

I suspect it's more in relation to propping up their rather fragile position by reinventing who they are.

Quoting Eurohub (Thread starter):
what do you guys think?

I think this and their MAN hub had better work or FlyBe are going to be in trouble. EasyJet are already starting to move into their territory, they need to successfully differentiate their business model if they are not to remain exposed.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
Eurohub
Topic Author
Posts: 235
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:11 pm

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:19 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 1):
I'm not sure if these are your words or theirs, but their roots were definitely not as an LCC

PlymSpotter, you're right - I was thinking of their roots as FlyBe and not so much as Jersey European; whilst they're one and the same entity, I perceive Flybe as having an LCC-type business model, but I accept that the original outlook was rather different

Eurohub
Forget A vs B - Give me E or BAe any day of the week!
 
danielmyatt
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:24 pm

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:04 am

I don't see why FlyBe get a bad rap, I've flown on their Embraers a few times and never had any issues, leg room is ok and I'm 6'5'' comfortable to fly on and reasonably cheap fare when compared to the alternatives. Never flown on a dash 8 though so it might be something for when uni finishes.
Mind you we don't have much Easyjet action here at BHX or up the road EMA, or any other "low cost" than Ryanair really, so until they make a big move on BHX, which I doubt they will really FlyBe will be a presence at BHX.
 
Gingersnap
Posts: 823
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:09 pm

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:12 am

Quoting danielmyatt (Reply 3):

I don't see why FlyBe get a bad rap, I've flown on their Embraers a few times and never had any issues, leg room is ok and I'm 6'5'' comfortable to fly on and reasonably cheap fare when compared to the alternatives. Never flown on a dash 8 though so it might be something for when uni finishes.
Mind you we don't have much Easyjet action here at BHX or up the road EMA, or any other "low cost" than Ryanair really, so until they make a big move on BHX, which I doubt they will really FlyBe will be a presence at BHX.

I'm just a few inches shorter in stature, and the leg room on the Q400 is comparable to the E195. The Q400 does feel a bit more "cosy" compared to the E195, but comfortable for an hour or two.

U2 for comparison sake are almost as comfortable IMO as well as WW, which is a shame seeing as they'll probably be gone soon.
FR I've not flown with, but my brother who has says they were the worst flights he has ever taken (he's shorter than I am).
Flown on: A306 A319/20/21 A332 B732/3/4/5/7/8 B742/4 B752 B762/3 B772/W C152 E195 F70/100 MD-82 Q400
 
juantrippe82
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:56 pm

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:04 am

I've flown with Flybe many times while travelling within Europe and have had nothing but comfortable flights with them. They kind of remind me of a European version of Jetblue.
Don't worry, I'm never wrong.
 
vegetables2001
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:28 pm

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:08 am

In other words we're going to charge more for the same product.

hmmm... wonder how that'll turn out?

FlyBe will be out of business in 2 years will be my guess.
A306,319,333 ATR72 BAC113/5, B703/704,717,721,732/3/4/5/7/8,741/1/4,757,763,773/E, DC8-6,9-3/5,10-30, DC106
 
col
Posts: 1692
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:11 am

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:16 am

What about more interlining with other long haul carriers at MAN? They could benefit and also more carriers could be interested. Are they still owned 25% by BA?
 
nclmedic
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:25 pm

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:44 am

Great news for BE - IMO, their fares have been way off the mark for even their 'discount' fares for some time. One of those infuriating companies where the end price keeps increasing with every click! On many, many occasions in the last 3 years, between NCL and LON, I have invariably opted for BA who have always been cheaper!
 
jwhite9185
Posts: 1581
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 10:34 pm

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:21 am

I booked a flight with them on Tuesday, just before the changes. The prices were a little cheaper (probably £10 or so at the most?) on the LGW-GLA run than BA from LHR, however the fly.be flight goes via BHD so the way i see it I'm getting an extra 2 flights thrown in for that price. Plus i get to try out both the E195 and Dash-8.

All in the name of research of course...
@mytripreport
 
ACdreamliner
Posts: 429
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:15 am

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:40 am

EDI-BUD - £800.79 one way. Erm, yeah, excellent value!

bmi - £394 one way the same day...
Where are you going?
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 21035
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:13 am

Sounds good I guess the proof will be in the pudding. I have had some great BE flights but I hated their website. We shall see what changes and if the fares get better as recently they have been very high especially out of BHD .
 
Eljonno
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:52 pm

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:50 am

Quoting col (Reply 7):

What about more interlining with other long haul carriers at MAN?
Quoting ACdreamliner (Reply 10):

EDI-BUD - £800.79 one way. Erm, yeah, excellent value!

I just checked NQY to CDG via MAN on there website (which IMHO is a huge improvement on its previous incarnation) and all the fares seemed fairly reasonable (the basic fare being just under £90 each way).
On some days they also seem to have a codeshare arrangement with AF to Paris. I was not aware that they did this until now - when did they start this? Might have to book a trip with my girlfriend some time!
 
vfw614
Posts: 3168
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:56 am

I think the website is a real improvement design-wise. The old one really looked tacky and cheap. I have not tested the functionality, though.

Generally speaking, I find it quite interesting that we see a LCC moving away from stealth pricing as a way to differentiate itself from the likes of easyJet, Ryanair, Jet2 or bmibaby.
 
User avatar
eurowings
Posts: 528
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:40 pm

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:02 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 1):
From my experience the public perception of FlyBe is that they are 'a worse rip off than Ryanair' - I've heard that time and time again, compounded by their generally higher fares. No doubt this has been damaging their image, it would appear enough for them to take action like this.

I know exactly what you mean. Many of their fares are not particularly low, yet their old website used to employ of range of tactics like trying to force customers to add-on luggage and pay extra for specific seating (online check-in would split up passengers across the aircraft). I am not sure if this has changed.

I always felt that BE were trying to take a moral high-ground with a "low fares, but quality" message, but then using a range of "FR-style" tactics.
"Freddie Laker may be at peace with his Maker, but he is persona non grata with IATA."- HRH Duke of Edinburgh
 
rutankrd
Posts: 2594
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:08 am

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:05 am

Quoting eljonno (Reply 12):
I just checked NQY to CDG via MAN on there website (which IMHO is a huge improvement on its previous incarnation) and all the fares seemed fairly reasonable (the basic fare being just under £90 each way).
On some days they also seem to have a codeshare arrangement with AF to Paris. I was not aware that they did this until now - when did they start this? Might have to book a trip with my girlfriend some time!

All Flybe french operations are code-shared with Air France as are Air France flights to Manchester and Birmingham and other Uk cities.

They sell connections to various cities over Paris but don't expect them to be cheap as they DON'T revenue share so its AF ticket price + and if its based on Air Frances full flexible pricing you ARE going to see prices of £400 single to the likes of Budapest standard interline rates apply.
 
Eljonno
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:52 pm

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:24 am

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 15):
Quoting rutankrd (Reply 15):
All Flybe french operations are code-shared with Air France as are Air France flights to Manchester and Birmingham and other Uk cities.

They sell connections to various cities over Paris but don't expect them to be cheap as they DON'T revenue share so its AF ticket price + and if its based on Air Frances full flexible pricing you ARE going to see prices of £400 single to the likes of Budapest standard interline rates apply.

Thanks. Like I said it seemed a fairly reasonable price to me.
 
Eljonno
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:52 pm

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:25 am

Quoting eurowings (Reply 14):
Many of their fares are not particularly low, yet their old website used to employ of range of tactics like trying to force customers to add-on luggage and pay extra for specific seating (online check-in would split up passengers across the aircraft). I am not sure if this has changed

These are still options on the booking I just made.
 
PlymSpotter
Posts: 10002
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:32 am

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:30 am

Quoting danielmyatt (Reply 3):

I don't see why FlyBe get a bad rap, I've flown on their Embraers a few times and never had any issues, leg room is ok and I'm 6'5'' comfortable to fly on and reasonably cheap fare when compared to the alternatives.

The onboard product is alright, apart from the layout on the E95s. The issue the public seem to have is that they claim to be cheap, but more often than not are far from it, and then add 'Ryanair style' charges ontop.

Quoting eljonno (Reply 12):
On some days they also seem to have a codeshare arrangement with AF to Paris. I was not aware that they did this until now - when did they start this? Might have to book a trip with my girlfriend some time!

They've had it going for a year or so now IIRC.

Quoting vegetables2001 (Reply 6):
FlyBe will be out of business in 2 years will be my guess.

They have sufficient cash reserves to go on longer than that, but their upcoming financial results are anticipated to be poor and the general direction of the business is causing concern to many analysts and financiers.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
sk736
Posts: 529
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:47 am

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:30 am

Quoting Eurohub (Thread starter):
Using debit cards no longer attracts a fee and credit card users are charged a flat fee per trip rather than the 'per passenger, per leg' fees preferred by some airlines - a fee that will more closely reflect the actual fees levied by the banks.

Are you serious? They're charging £9 to pay with a credit card - do you seriously think that's anywhere near what Flybe is paying their bank to process the payment? Like every other airline that charges these ridiculous fees, it's an absolute rip-off and time the OFT (in the UK) or the EU did something to prevent it.
 
A340600
Posts: 3893
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:24 pm

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:41 am

I have always avoided flybe because they're more expensive than other options that offer a better quality product. These changes seem to be yield driven, but complimentary snacks and drinks thrown in on all fare classes would have made the world of difference for their business potential, after all they regularly match the legacy carriers in price, if not exceed with their top class which can be outright extortionate.
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
JerseyFlyer
Posts: 845
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 7:24 pm

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:48 am

I fly JER-LGW a lot and for several years have always opted for BA without comparing Flybe prices because booking Flybe was too hard work due to all the extra charges for this and that.

Maybe they have seen the light!

[Edited 2012-04-29 04:50:13]
 
rutankrd
Posts: 2594
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:08 am

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:51 am

Quoting SK736 (Reply 19):
Are you serious? They're charging £9 to pay with a credit card - do you seriously think that's anywhere near what Flybe is paying their bank to process the payment? Like every other airline that charges these ridiculous fees, it's an absolute rip-off and time the OFT (in the UK) or the EU did something to prevent it.

The charge from the Bank is typically 2.5 to 3% per transaction plus .5% admin and handling.

On a typical return ticket price of around £200.00 - Thats £7.00 plus say 15% for the airlines admin costs = £8.05
In this case £9.00 in not un-reasonable.

That said the level of un avoidable charges applied by LCC (Low Cost Carriers) are used to allow very low headline fares to be quoted and thats their business model.

Deconstructed fares are designed to deliberately deceive and THATS what should be outlawed in a fixed price economy.
 
channelhopper
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:19 pm

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:20 pm

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 21):

Right on the nail JerseyFlyer. I too use the JER/LGW route , and would say that I am always put off flying BE by the baggage charges, which are considerable, wheras with BA you get a 23 kg bag included, for a fare that is nearly always cheaper......Oh and a free drink as well.
If BE wants to be taken seriously , then make some real changes, not just some window dressing.
 
bmie70
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:12 pm

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:30 pm

I find their use of 'New Economy' quite amusing as it is pretty much what 'old' economy was 6 or so years ago before they started charging for baggage and seat allocation at booking.

Amongst my friends and colleagues they have a bad reputation for reliability with delays and cancellation. I don't know if they are statistically any worse than BA, U2 or FR in this regards.

I would have thought that most business travellers would prefer a direct flight with a drive at either end rather than a change in MAN with the added potential for delay or cancellation that taking two flights entails.
 
David_itl
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:39 pm

Quoting bmie70 (Reply 24):
would have thought that most business travellers would prefer a direct flight with a drive at either end rather than a change in MAN
Flybe says MAN hub off to good start

"First ever independent carrier to create regional network hub in UK reports outstanding start-up performance with 122% passenger increase .


We will have to wait for the CAA's provisional statistics to come out to see which routes have benefitted

That release was on the old website - link was http://www.flybe.com/corporate/media/news/1204/18.htm
 
rutankrd
Posts: 2594
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:08 am

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:44 pm

Quoting bmie70 (Reply 24):
I would have thought that most business travellers would prefer a direct flight with a drive at either end rather than a change in MAN with the added potential for delay or cancellation that taking two flights entails.

Why ? - thats exactly how those three MEGA US hubs work on daily basis.

Also how the competing rail network works,and the London Underground, oh and BAs Euro/US-Middle East/India Hubs.

Its a perfectly good foundation and has a Looooong history over Manchester going back to the 60/70s with BEA/ BA and their good old 1-11s that would route BFS/GLA/EDI/ABZ- Man - Dusseldorf/Berlin/Geneva/Milan/Paris/Brussels- Man - BFS/GLA/EDI/ABZ daily with connections to FRA/CPH/AMS.
 
PlymSpotter
Posts: 10002
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:32 am

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:10 pm

Quoting david_itl (Reply 25):
"First ever independent carrier to create regional network hub in UK reports outstanding start-up performance with 122% passenger increase .

Qualified by:

Quote:
To date, connecting bookings for April travel have more than doubled with passengers obviously keen to take advantage of the additional 86 convenient regional point-to-point connections and choice of 12 new flights created by Flybe having optimised its scheduling options through its Manchester base.

This is only an increase in connecting passengers. Of the 7.2 million passengers they flew in 2010/11 approximately 5% were connecting (30,000 a month) across a number of airports including EXT, BHD, MAN, BHX, LGW, GLA, EDI etc... Lets be pretty generous and suggest MAN was seeing 25% of that transfer traffic, that's 250 passengers a day which has now increased by 305 to 555 - roughly an extra 3.5 passengers per new 'point to point' connection through MAN. Definitely nothing to sniff at so long as the yield has not dropped, but I wouldn't be classing this as outstanding myself.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
Eurohub
Topic Author
Posts: 235
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:11 pm

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:16 pm

Quoting SK736 (Reply 19):
Are you serious? They're charging £9 to pay with a credit card - do you seriously think that's anywhere near what Flybe is paying their bank to process the payment?

although your point is rather neatly answered by rutankrd...

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 22):
The charge from the Bank is typically 2.5 to 3% per transaction plus .5% admin and handling.

...my point was that even if the actual bank's charge was much lower, a per leg flat rate charge seems fairer than the 'per passenger, per leg' charge favoured by other airlines that bears absolutely no relation to the costs incurred in processing the transaction. Also, some other airlines charge for the use of debit cards (whilst generally paying bank charges of 40p fixed regardless of transaction value) and at least BE are stopping that.

Like it or not SK736 - and for the record I very much don't like it - charging an additional fee to pay by credit card might have started with the airlines, but it has spread throughout the economy (Makro and IKEA for example) and I think as long as the seller offers a no-fee alternative, there's nothing the OFT can do about it.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 13):
Generally speaking, I find it quite interesting that we see a LCC moving away from stealth pricing as a way to differentiate itself from the likes of easyJet, Ryanair, Jet2 or bmibaby.

Absolutely agree.
Forget A vs B - Give me E or BAe any day of the week!
 
sandyb123
Posts: 746
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:29 pm

RE: Flybe Announces "Brand Re-positioning"

Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:14 pm

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 22):
The charge from the Bank is typically 2.5 to 3% per transaction plus .5% admin and handling.

You're quoting too high. Expect the transaction charges to be Quoting vfw614 (Reply 13):
I think the website is a real improvement design-wise. The old one really looked tacky and cheap. I have not tested the functionality, though.


Agreed, much smarter but I feel that the functionality is a bit rigged. I can't just type in where I am going...

Sandyb123
Member of the mile high club