bthebest
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Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:50 am

Flight Global reports that Boeing have now confirmed they are specifcally studying a direct replacement for the 757 in the long-haul segment.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...haul-757-replacement-study-371163/

The drive behind it is clearly the popular transatlantic segment that carriers say the 739ER and A321neo can't match - US Airways is specifically mentioned.

The options that are available seem to be a redefinition or addition to the MAX (although it hasn't been fully defined yet anyway) or a re-entry of a 787-3 into the product line. I personally see the MAX option a bit of a stretch and think a redefined 787-3 with less capactiy and greater range might be favourable?

We could also see an Airbus response, expecially with US being a valuable Airbus customer, maybe an improved or -ER version of the A321neo (again a bit of stretch). Just gonna throw it out there - what about a new A330 model?
 
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RWA380
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:53 am

What about an Airbus A325? to fit in with this market the airlines would be chasing.
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qf002
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:03 am

IMO, the A330/787 variant path is going to be a difficult one. The 757 needs to be replaced from the 737/A320 lines, to keep the weight to an absolute minimum.

If the 787 were to be used as a platform it would need to be stripped right back, perhaps integrating some of the design elements that come out of the -10 as a regional aircraft. It would still be too heavy though...

We'll see what happens. It's a pretty small market to go through a big development process for -- the A321/739ER do a pretty good job of replacing the 757 in most areas, especially in the NEO/MAX generation.
 
HPRamper
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:10 am

Shouldn't be an issue with the technology available. If it could be done in the 1980s, it can be done now. Obviously we are looking at a narrowbody most likely, regardless of the A.net hate for narrowbodies - the kinds of long, thin routes currently flown by the 757 in many cases could not support a widebody.

The bigger question is would Boeing want to start a new line for this plane, taking away from something that is already in the works? Or would they expand without pushing something out that is already running?
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:10 am

Nor Boeing or Airbus will pull a clean sheet to design a 757 replacement. The niche market doesn't justify it.

The articles hints at a 737MAX evolution. Though I don't know how much more range and payload can be stretched out of it.
Maybe a new wing/landing gear/engine combination, but the investment still seems heavy for such a small market. The gap between the 739/A321 and the 787/A330 isn't that wide.
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:12 am

Personally I would like to see airbus stick the A321 wing on the A320 and max out the weights with the new GTFs hung under the wings, Boeing shoul do the same with the 73G/738. I dont think the 757 has done so well on its TATL adventures bucause of how big it was but how small it was, a smaller aircraft that could fly the route with lower CASM would reduce risk significantly.

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murchmo
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:28 am

Boeing obviously wanted to do a clean sheet 737 replacement. What if this was the beginning of that? First offer the 757 capacity to replace that market then turn this hypothetical narrowbody into a smaller more direct brand new 737 replacement. Using all new tech and such learned from the 787. It's one of the only ways they could justify a whole new line and would also put them ahead of Airbus.
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Asturias
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:30 am

The B757 is a fine piece of engineering even compared to the 737 NGs. Perhaps the MAX can be engineered to match and exceed the 57, I guess one has to hope for that.

I probably can't praise the 757 enough, it's that fine. Boeing would do well with making a genuine replacement for it.

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Btblue
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:02 am

Isn't the MAX designed to be the last stage iteration of the 737 line before the introduction of Y3 with launch of the 737 replacement to be 2020 or so... just confused as to why would you launch a new type based on old tech... aka the 737.

If the MAX was to be developed further and as it has the same cross section at the 757, would/could it be possible they stick the 757 gear under it, allowing the stretch, the engine clearance for a GTF? Use of composites... creating a hybrid.
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AirbusA6
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:31 am

Quoting btblue (Reply 8):
If the MAX was to be developed further and as it has the same cross section at the 757, would/could it be possible they stick the 757 gear under it, allowing the stretch, the engine clearance for a GTF? Use of composites... creating a hybrid.

Oh they could definitely do this, it's more whether the numbers add up when you consider the small number of transatlantic 757s in service. It's the same reason why there's no proper replacement for the short to medium haul widebodies.
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:39 am

Quoting Bthebest (Thread starter):
Flight Global reports that Boeing have now confirmed they are specifcally studying a direct replacement for the 757 in the long-haul segment.

Boeing confirmed going back into the 2000s that they had VP level staffing for the NSA (737 replacement). They even named the executives in charge. My point is not to read too much into this.

Quoting Bthebest (Thread starter):
We could also see an Airbus response, expecially with US being a valuable Airbus customer, maybe an improved or -ER version of the A321neo (again a bit of stretch).

Again, don't read too much into it - US was just used as an example of a customer who would be interested. The fact that a crucial Boeing customer wasn't named suggests to me that this just isn't that big a deal. Note for contrast that we do have reports of the largest 777 customer in the world being quite excited about the 777X program, and at least four other customers already expressing interest.

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 5):
Personally I would like to see airbus stick the A321 wing on the A320 and max out the weights with the new GTFs hung under the wings,

Interesting. Airbus claims 3000 nm range for current A32x, an additional 500 nm for NEO+sharklets, and US still isn't happy.

I'm supposing they want solid 4000 nm all-winds range, so would sticking A321 wings on an A320 get it to that point?

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 5):
Boeing shoul do the same with the 73G/738.

I don't think you can get the range out of it.
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airbazar
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:42 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 4):
Nor Boeing or Airbus will pull a clean sheet to design a 757 replacement. The niche market doesn't justify it.

It's on heck of a niche market when you consider not only TATL routes but routes between North and South America as a well as between Europe and Africa. Not to mention that a plane like this would carry more pax than today's A321/739, with more cargo uplift, and likely at a much lower cost than even the NEO and MAX, on a lot of transcon routes.
 
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garpd
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:48 am

Re-tool for the 757.
Put a raked wingtip on it, 777/787 style cockpit, sky interior, replace some components with carbon composites,strap a new engine to the wings and job's a good-un.

Of course, this is about as likely as any other possibility, ie: Low.
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murchmo
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:57 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 11):

If their were a niche market. It would be this one.

Quoting garpd (Reply 12):

The production lines and all involved are long gone and shutdown. You'd basically have to start over from what I understand.


The engineers at Boeing are talkin about the same things we are and then some. We can be sure of that.
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G500
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:00 pm

How about just re-opening the 757 assembly line again, wouldn't that be easier than all this "replacement" talk??? (major companies always trying to re-invent the wheel)
 
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:07 pm

Quoting garpd (Reply 12):
Re-tool for the 757.
Quoting g500 (Reply 14):
How about just re-opening the 757 assembly line again, wouldn't that be easier than all this "replacement" talk??? (major companies always trying to re-invent the wheel)

The tools are gone, the final assembly line is gone, the supply chain is gone. Forget about it.
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columba
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:26 pm

A stretched 737-900Max with a new wing, finally an aircraft for people that missed out on the 707 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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ERJ170
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:26 pm

737-10 using 739 body with 128' wingspan and Leap-X engine.. Sky interior.. Made in Charleston on the 787 line?

Just a thought...
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scouseflyer
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:32 pm

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 5):
Personally I would like to see airbus stick the A321 wing on the A320 and max out the weights with the new GTFs hung under the wings, Boeing shoul do the same with the 73G/738. I dont think the 757 has done so well on its TATL adventures bucause of how big it was but how small it was, a smaller aircraft that could fly the route with lower CASM would reduce risk significantly.

How differant are the A321 wings from the standard A320 ones - I thought that all 4 familt members had the same wings?
 
N757ST
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:51 pm

All the a320 series have the same wing.
 
drerx7
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:58 pm

Quoting N757ST (Reply 19):
All the a320 series have the same wing.

The flap assembly is different on the 321 but I suppose the dimensions are the same.
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jfklganyc
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:04 pm

Goes to show you how out of touch a manufacturer can be with customers.

Why was it ever cancelled? Didn't anyone at Boeing see that airlines were finding new life for these aircraft to go long haul?

When it was cancelled, didn't they think to replace it with something instead of forcing people to make a 737/320 decision?

They had a unique product (that although old) was still unmatched by anything out there. Bad business decision and I am glad they are thinking about reversing course.
 
columba
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:09 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 21):
They had a unique product (that although old) was still unmatched by anything out there. Bad business decision and I am glad they are thinking about reversing course.

It was the right decision at the time, also a sad one. It will be interesting what Boeing will do, a lighter 787 or a stretched 737Max, I believe the last one, maybe with a double boogie landing gear, a 707 with leapx twin engines so to speak  
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bthebest
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:11 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 10):
Again, don't read too much into it - US was just used as an example of a customer who would be interested.

I think it's a bit more than 'interested'. The article mentions that US complained outright that the A321neo wouldn't cut it, and based on the fact that they currently use 757s for that mission, its very relevant. With a possible US/AA merger, there could be an even bigger customer there.

On a more general note, I think a 757 replacement could have more of an application than just those mentioned so far. Small long-haul international start-ups, such as those in eastern Europe, South America and the Indian Sub-continent might find it appealing.
 
airbazar
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:17 pm

Quoting murchmo (Reply 13):
If their were a niche market. It would be this one.

And a much greater one and likely more profitable than the A380/748 will ever be.
 
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:30 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 15):
The tools are gone, the final assembly line is gone, the supply chain is gone. Forget about it.

Yes...but the designs are still there. They would have to start a new assembly line for a new model anyway (unless they went down the MAX route) so you would think it would be more cost effective to start with an existing design and modernise/tweak it.

MAX might be what they go for but IMO I can't see how this would work with a 737.
 
columba
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:47 pm

Quoting bevisisback (Reply 25):
MAX might be what they go for but IMO I can't see how this would work with a 737.

Minus the T-Tail, add compsite wings with raked wingtips and add LeapX Engine, voilà:

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.file?id=18968&filename=php59aKoy.jpeg
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
blueman87
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:53 pm

just reopen the 757 line solves half the problams
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gulfstream650
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:56 pm

Wouldn't the 787-8 do the same job?
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Tan Flyr
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:01 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 21):
Goes to show you how out of touch a manufacturer can be with customers.

Why was it ever cancelled? Didn't anyone at Boeing see that airlines were finding new life for these aircraft to go long haul?

IIRC, as Boeing was preparing to biuld the last 753's for CO & NW they inquired with every major 757 operator about any late orders or either type..and at a a great price as I recall also. NO takers...all were leaning at the time to 739's or some new technology for a narrowbody. Every operator in the world knew that they could order before the line was shut down.

Wasn't there some different codes on this Y1 and Y3 proposals kicked around..perhap indicating one of those was to be the 757 replacement?
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:08 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 21):
Goes to show you how out of touch a manufacturer can be with customers.

Why was it ever cancelled? Didn't anyone at Boeing see that airlines were finding new life for these aircraft to go long haul?

It was the customers who lacked vision, not Boeing.

Airlines just stopped buying the plane after January 2001. Boeing secured 31 orders that month (NW's 757-300 order being half of it) and then only 6 more the rest of the year. 2002 secured no orders and the only customers in 2003 were the Chinese, with FM taking 5 and MF taking 2.

I don't know what the 757 production rate was, but with no orders coming in, even if it was one plane a month, eventually you run out of airframes to build and at such a low production rate, your costs rise and so must your prices, which don't help generate interest.



Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 27):
just reopen the 757 line solves half the problams

The other half of the problem is there is no 757 line to re-open.  Silly

[Edited 2012-04-30 07:09:45]
 
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:10 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 21):
Goes to show you how out of touch a manufacturer can be with customers.

Why was it ever cancelled?

It was cancelled in 2004 since it had ZERO ORDERS even after Boeing offered sweetheart deals to FedEx and others to keep the line open.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 21):
Bad business decision and I am glad they are thinking about reversing course.

Good business decision, and they are absolutely not not thinking about reversing course if that means restarting 757 production.

Quoting bevisisback (Reply 25):
Yes...but the designs are still there. They would have to start a new assembly line for a new model anyway (unless they went down the MAX route) so you would think it would be more cost effective to start with an existing design and modernise/tweak it.

The designs are there, but so what? They date from 1978 or so and you would not build the same wings or use the same engines today as you would in 1978. Also fuse technology has moved on (the 737NG is a far more efficient fuse than the 757) and systems tech also has moved on. There isn't much if anything one would save from the 757 if starting over today.

Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 27):
just reopen the 757 line solves half the problams

How do you solve the problem that the 757 production line no longer exists, and its space is taken up by a 737 production line, and all the surrounding land has been sold off?

The bulk of the Renton site that built the 757 is now a shopping mall, so if there was to be a new 757 type product, it could not be built there due to lack of space.

The next and perhaps final phase for Renton will be builting 737 MAX.

I will say it's likely the next all-new Boeing product won't be built in the Puget Sound area, so that Boeing can get out from under the union agreements it has.
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CargoIT
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:53 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 11):
It's on heck of a niche market when you consider not only TATL routes but routes between North and South America as a well as between Europe and Africa. Not to mention that a plane like this would carry more pax than today's A321/739, with more cargo uplift, and likely at a much lower cost than even the NEO and MAX, on a lot of transcon routes.

The 767 is really more prevalent on many of the routes mentioned. With 67 nearing EOL it seems like there should be a market for an aircraft to fit between the 737/320 and 787/350. I hope it looks more like a 767 than a 757 though.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:58 pm

Quoting CargoIT (Reply 32):
I hope it looks more like a 767 than a 757 though.

Maybe the 2+3+2 narrowbody design Boeing patented.
 
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par13del
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:58 pm

Quoting Bthebest (Reply 23):
On a more general note, I think a 757 replacement could have more of an application than just those mentioned so far. Small long-haul international start-ups, such as those in eastern Europe, South America and the Indian Sub-continent might find it appealing.

If that were the case the 757 line might still be open, let's remember, that to some degree, Airbus killed the 757 market by producing an a/c - A321- with less range and payload as being more efficient, and most operators of the 757 outside of the USA who needed the range and payload abandoned the 757.
Airbus is now adding additional range and payload into the A321 in my view to take advantage of the niche market that exist in the USA, something which they initially thought was not needed. Economically it makes sense since they are just upgrading an existing product, hopefully the original which did so well in markets that did not need the extra's will still be available, hauling around extra bulk for range and payload which you do not need is inefficient.
 
traindoc
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:06 pm

Remember, Boeing studied an all new 737 replacement and then at the last minute came out with the 737MAX instead. Thus, I would not put too much into this report. Where would they get the resources from? They are MAXed out with their current programs, i.e; the 787, the 748i, the 777X and the 737MAX.
 
BestWestern
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:07 pm

Airlines just stopped buying the plane after January 2001. Boeing secured 31 orders that month (NW's 757-300 order being half of it) and then only 6 more the rest of the year. 2002 secured no orders and the only customers in 2003 were the Chinese, with FM taking 5 and MF taking 2.


Wonder if these newish Chinese 757s will find their way to Delta and United?

Xiamen have a small subfleet of 757 which will be superseded by the 787. I think their 757s are underused also.
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captainstefan
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:11 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 33):
Maybe the 2+3+2 narrowbody design Boeing patented.

What am I missing here? Doesn't having two aisles classify the aircraft as a widebody?
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AngMoh
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:13 pm

The current 757 works because they have no longer any major depreciation. A brand new 757 with the deprecation of a new plane and the economics of a 1978 plane will not work.

And I don't think there is a real business case for a direct replacement. US airlines will never buy the 757 replacement in the same quantities as they bought the 757 in the past. The NEO and MAX cover 90% percent of what the 757 is capable off and will do that at lower cost.
Outside the US, there is no real demand for such capabilities (the 737-900ER and A321NEO will do what the Chinese need so there is no market there).
 
hmelawyer
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:18 pm

Quoting traindoc (Reply 35):
Remember, Boeing studied an all new 737 replacement and then at the last minute came out with the 737MAX instead. Thus, I would not put too much into this report. Where would they get the resources from? They are MAXed out with their current programs, i.e; the 787, the 748i, the 777X and the 737MAX.

I think that the fact that they are in study mode will make the timing versus other programs work out fine, as I do not think this project would get rolling until the end of the decade. The 748i will be taken off the board as a development program probably by the end of this year. The 787 and MAX programs should end development by around 2017 (assuming 787-10 takes it out that long). That would leave them open to be working on a narrowbody project and the 777X at the end of this decade. I believe that this study will just be a part of the NSA project that will see a launch in the middle of the next decade (giving the MAX about 10 years on the market before EIS for the NSA).
 
G500
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:33 pm

Quoting Gulfstream650 (Reply 28):
Wouldn't the 787-8 do the same job?

well yeah, except for the price tag....
 
AY-MD11
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:34 pm

This could be good chance for Embraer or Bombardier to make larger plane for this market.
 
bellancacf
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:45 pm

Does it look like it is going to turn out that the 787 production process will be fast, cheap, easy to modify ... add other good things? Would Boeing ever build another metal fuselage if it had a choice? Now that Boeing has climbed the steep, high learning curve for 787 production, can they readily turn that knowledge/experience to the production of a (clean sheet?) narrow-body?

What are the pros and cons of producing a stumpy widebody vs. a longer narrowbody for a 757 replacement?
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:58 pm

Quoting AY-MD11 (Reply 41):
This could be good chance for Embraer or Bombardier to make larger plane for this market.

That would be a huge leap for them. And the market is not exactly embracing their small leaps (E-195X | CSeries).
 
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kanban
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:12 pm

Boeing just applied for a new series of patents related to the Sonic Cruiser... (Flightblogger),,, now throw that into the 'it's got to be a bigger 737 or smaller 787' mindset.. (the first I believe would have structural constraints and the latter would be inefficient without a smaller diameter fuselage)
 
airbazar
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:19 pm

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 38):
And I don't think there is a real business case for a direct replacement. US airlines will never buy the 757 replacement in the same quantities as they bought the 757 in the past. The NEO and MAX cover 90% percent of what the 757 is capable off and will do that at lower cost.

It covers 90% of EXISTING routes because many potential routes can't be operated even with a 757. Airlines "abuse" a 767 for those routes. The 757 was part of a family: 757/767. And the 767 is also going away and neither Boeing nor Airbus have a replacement for that so called niche. The A330/A358/788 are simply too heavy and too large to be a good 762/763 replacement.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:58 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 21):

Why was it ever cancelled? Didn't anyone at Boeing see that airlines were finding new life for these aircraft to go long haul?

Airlines were finding a new life for airplanes that were being displaced by more efficient airplanes.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 21):

When it was cancelled, didn't they think to replace it with something instead of forcing people to make a 737/320 decision?

Airlines were the ones that decided they wanted the A320 and 737NG instead of the 757. The 739ER has a more than 10% fuel burn advantage over the 757 on routes where they compete. The 738 is slightly less, but still a significant difference. The 757 has capability to operate into shorter fields or on longer flights than the 737s, but it was too small of a market.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 21):

They had a unique product (that although old) was still unmatched by anything out there. Bad business decision and I am glad they are thinking about reversing course.

They had an overdesigned aircraft for the majority of routes it serves. For the vast majority of routes that the 757 operates, it is never near MTOW. That wasn't as big of a problem in the 1990s when fuel was cheap and airlines were purchasing significant quantities of them. However with tighter margins, the 757 is a tough airplane to make a profit with compared to the 738. The 757 has a lot of capacity and no CASM advantage to make up for it (actually it has a CASM disadvantage until a flight gets closer to 2000 nm). It opens up some markets that would otherwise not be viable with other airplanes, but I don't think we will ever see an airline want to make an airplane with the 757 capability the backbone of their fleet.

The 757 can operate routes no other airplanes can, but that is not a big market. It is a few hundred airplanes. That might warrant increasing MTOW with some 737-MAX adjustments, but not a new airframe.

Quoting par13del (Reply 34):

If that were the case the 757 line might still be open, let's remember, that to some degree, Airbus killed the 757 market by producing an a/c - A321- with less range and payload as being more efficient, and most operators of the 757 outside of the USA who needed the range and payload abandoned the 757.

I think what killed the 757 off was the 738/739 and A320/A321. Airbus pushed the payload and range of narrowbodies with the A320 having a significant payload advantage over the 733/734 and MD80. The increased range and payload proved valuable enough for Boeing to develop the 737NG. The NG cut into the majority of the 757 market and had much lower CASM. For the majority of routes operated by the 757, a 737-800 could operate it with a lower CASM. The larger 739s and A321s also further hurt the 757 for airlines interested in the capacity. '

The 737Classic and 757 were effectively replaced by a single airplane. The result was that Boeing lost the appeal of very short haul 737s and long haul 757s because the 737NG was not optimized for those routes. Boeing saw what was happening with the higher MTOW 737s and tried to market the 717 to the smaller segment that 737NG did not cover well, but that flopped. I would propose the same thing would happen with an attempt at a 757NG. Some operators would love it, but it is not a big enough segment to earn a profit in.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
mogandoCI
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:06 pm

What about a "787-8 Combi" with 752 pax floor space plus cargo space at the rear 1/3rd of the main floor ? Or did some EU regulation kill any potential future combi concept ?
 
iFlyLOTs
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:10 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 45):
The A330/A358/788 are simply too heavy and too large to be a good 762/763 replacement.

I disagree. The 788/A330/A358 will cover the 763/764 just fine. But I do however agree that the 762 and the 757 are not being replaced by anything which does in fact leave quite a large hole to fill.
"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
 
GCT64
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RE: Boeing To Study Direct 757 Long-haul Replacement

Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:18 pm

Quoting Bthebest (Reply 23):
Quoting Revelation (Reply 10):Again, don't read too much into it - US was just used as an example of a customer who would be interested.
I think it's a bit more than 'interested'. The article mentions that US complained outright that the A321neo wouldn't cut it, and based on the fact that they currently use 757s for that mission, its very relevant.

I recall, however, when I read the article (or a linked article) that it also said that Airbus did not agree with US's assessment of the NEO range capability implying that Airbus thinks it will be able to do some (how much?) of the 757 TATL mission. There was also mention that EI is looking at MAX / NEO for TATL routes, which is interesting because, beyond a.net, I haven't seen much overt mention of TATL MAX / NEO planning (although EI are the obvious contender for operating these aircraft across the Atlantic - will we see multiple daily narrowbodies DUB-BOS?)
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