FlyHossD
Posts: 1272
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

UA Alpa Asks For Release?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:16 pm

I've just heard via my old grapevine, that the UA ALPA MEC Chairman has asked for a release. In other words, he's asking to start the 30 day "cooling off" period which is required before "self-help."

I can understand the frustration, UA pilots are 2.5 years past their amendable date and CO pilots are 3.5 years past theirs (IIRC).

Is he trying to force the company to negotiate?

Did the UA and CO pilots take a strike vote?

What have you heard?

Please, I'd like to limit this thread to answers to my questions, not opinions about unions in the airline industry.

[Edited 2012-04-30 16:32:19]
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
codc10
Posts: 1800
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

RE: UA Alpa Asks For Release?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:43 pm

Quoting flyhossd (Thread starter):

Is he trying to force the company to negotiate?

Yes. There's no guarantee that the NMB will even let the UAL ALPA MEC out of mediation. The timing also makes it a political issue in an election year for an incumbent, pro-labor, Democrat President from Chicago...

It's a tactic to force the company to reach agreement. We'll see how effective it is. I hope a deal gets done.

Quoting flyhossd (Thread starter):

Did the UA and CO pilots take a strike vote?

No, this is not legal until both sides can seek self-help, i.e. after the PEB convenes, gives its blessing for a strike, and up to 90 days of cooling-off period expire.

[Edited 2012-04-30 16:45:27]
 
catiii
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Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

RE: UA Alpa Asks For Release?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:46 pm

The UA pilot group has a blog here in which they posted more about filing for a release. Obviously it is biased towards their point of view, but it IS their point of view: http://www.theunfriendlyskies.org/pi...s-file-for-release-from-mediation/
 
ordbosewr
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:30 pm

RE: UA Alpa Asks For Release?

Tue May 01, 2012 12:35 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 2):

The UA pilot group has a blog here in which they posted more about filing for a release. Obviously it is biased towards their point of view, but it IS their point of view: http://www.theunfriendlyskies.org/pi...tion/

All I can say is WOW! those are some facts on that site. I love biased propaganda.....
 
30west
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RE: UA Alpa Asks For Release?

Tue May 01, 2012 12:45 am


CODC10-- You might wan't to research how a strike happens at an airline, its on the web, because how you wrote it isn't correct
 
codc10
Posts: 1800
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

RE: UA Alpa Asks For Release?

Tue May 01, 2012 12:52 am

Quoting 30west (Reply 4):

CODC10-- You might wan't to research how a strike happens at an airline, its on the web, because how you wrote it isn't correct

Why don't you fill me in on that one, because under the RLA (to which airline employees are subject), that's exactly how it works.

- Negotiation
- Mediation under NMB
- Release from mediation (at NMB discretion)
- 30 day cooling off period
- President may convene PEB (given deleterious effect on interstate commerce)
- PEB may offer recommendation at a public hearing within 60 days
- After public hearing, if Congress does not pass legislation forbidding strike, parties may engage in self help (lockout and/or strike)

Where am I wrong?

[Edited 2012-04-30 17:53:08]
 
30west
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RE: UA Alpa Asks For Release?

Tue May 01, 2012 12:57 am

No, this is not legal until both sides can seek self-help, i.e. after the PEB convenes, gives its blessing for a strike, and up to 90 days of cooling-off period expire.


To me it sounded like you were saying a strike is after a PEB, which may or may not be called by Obama .

You're following post is exactly correct, my apologies if I misunderstood.

30west
 
codc10
Posts: 1800
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

RE: UA Alpa Asks For Release?

Tue May 01, 2012 12:58 am

Quoting 30west (Reply 6):

You're right, my first post was somewhat unclear. I wrote it a bit on the fly but trust that I know what I'm talking about when it comes to the RLA!  
 
loggat
Posts: 427
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2000 11:34 am

RE: UA Alpa Asks For Release?

Tue May 01, 2012 1:56 pm

The strike vote can occur at any time during Section 6 negotiations. You do not have to wait to be released to commence the vote. At my airline, we took a strike vote (98% turnout, 99.25% yes votes) back in November last year. We are still in NMB mediated talks.
There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
 
DashTrash
Posts: 1266
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:44 am

RE: UA Alpa Asks For Release?

Tue May 01, 2012 2:14 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 5):
Where am I wrong?

Strike votes have to happen before release. They take time to conduct and the membership must vote to strike before the MEC can declare one.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 2173
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

RE: UA Alpa Asks For Release?

Tue May 01, 2012 2:24 pm

all the Pilots DID was seek a release from medation. IF the mnb Gives them the release then they take a Strike vote and after 30 days they're free to Strike. and the kicker IS IF the president does NOT exercise PEB authority which I'm betting the Company wants to force Binding Arbitration They don't mind the Delta Payscale but they want 90 seat Regional jets allowed and ALPA AIN'T Trying to HEAR that!! Can't say as I blame them either...
 
mm320cap
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:35 pm

RE: UA Alpa Asks For Release?

Tue May 01, 2012 4:06 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 10):
They don't mind the Delta Payscale but they want 90 seat Regional jets allowed and ALPA AIN'T Trying to HEAR that!! Can't say as I blame them either...

We haven't even started discussing pay rates and scope yet. We have been stuck discussing work rules for the past 15 months, and the company just retreated back to 2010 positions on the R&I section. Mind you, before the DOJ approved the merger, management agreed to use UAL work rules as a baseline for discussions. As soon as the merger was approved, they retreated wildly from that position. For 15 months we have only been meeting approximately once a week, without company decision makers at the table (when they bother to show up) and have reached exactly ZERO AIP's in a cost section of the contract. Oh, and the work rules the company won't come up to? Those are work rules they extracted under CH 11. They are horrendous compared to what was once in the contract.

The company continues to stall and drag it's feet. Why? Because Jeff's bonus depends on him hitting cost cutting targets in 2013.

Last time I mentioned that here, people SCREAMED that I was making horrific allegations. Don't believe me, believe the Associated Press.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...n/2012/04/27/gIQAXesEmT_story.html

Enough is enough. We've been at the bottom of the industry for far too long. Delta is working on their SECOND contract since our concessions, and all signs point to them reaching an agreement towards the end of May.
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 20470
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RE: UA Alpa Asks For Release?

Tue May 01, 2012 4:13 pm

With the AA BK, its well worth UA wait it out and see what happens.

A lower cost and more efficient AA will put pressure on UA, and it would be poor planning for UA to box itself in with labor agreements that might be at a disadvantage to what AA ends up with at the end.

Also to characterize this as UA is being inflexible, remember its takes two parties to tango.
Maybe unions needs to realize they cannot ask for the moon either in today's environment, and should be realistic that small incremental changes are about all the market will bear at the moment.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ROSWELL41
Posts: 755
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2001 3:50 am

RE: UA Alpa Asks For Release?

Tue May 01, 2012 4:40 pm

If AA does not end up merging with LCC while in Chapter 11 and is able to void the pilot's contract, that is going to hurt all labor negotiations in the near future. United ALPA will be hurt especially by this. It's also going to be an uphill battle to ever get released from the NMB given that UAL is now the world's biggest airline. The entire RLA process is rigged in favor of management unfortunately. Management has little incentive to negotiate when they can drag this process out for years with little fear of strike or job action.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 2173
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

RE: UA Alpa Asks For Release?

Tue May 01, 2012 9:25 pm

Quoting mm320cap (Reply 11):

I'm SURE it isn't what you're dreaming of and I SERIOUSLY doubt you'll get all you desire but I'm also Sure you guys Aren't going to take what they're wishing to Give you. Heck!! You haven't even Talked to anybody with any Starch to agree to ANYTHING Have You??? Many of us believe there's another AGENDA amongst Senior .Management. It's king of they'd like to Dumb us DOWN so we'll go for whatever BS they want us to Believe.. Trouble IS?? We've been LIED to be smarter people than they HAVE and THAT includes SMISEK!! So you're NOT the only one getting the BS Treatment
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 1900
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

RE: UA Alpa Asks For Release?

Wed May 02, 2012 1:07 am

To try to keep this thread on the rails and in response to the OP's post:

UA ALPA is taking the next step in their process. It doesn't mean a strike in an of itself.

Although its absurd that the pilot contract and integration hasn't happened, its not surprising given the industry we're talking about.
 
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kordcj
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:18 pm

RE: UA Alpa Asks For Release?

Wed May 02, 2012 1:21 am

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 1):
The timing also makes it a political issue in an election year for an incumbent, pro-labor, Democrat President from Chicago...

I don't get how the president being from Chicago has anything to do with a strike at United. These a.net statements of fact that Chicago gets special treatment because Obama hails from the city are wildly inaccurate. Obama being pro-labor has far more to do with how he'll react to striking UA pilots than him being from Chicago..

Good for the UA pilots though, too bad they couldn't show solidarity with the CO pilots on the issue. I think the statement would have carried far more weight if both unions had issued a joint statement. UA is fundamentally broken (imo) until the labor groups realize they all work for the same company.
The most obvious proof for intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't tried to contact us.
 
Flaps
Posts: 1195
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2000 1:11 pm

RE: UA Alpa Asks For Release?

Wed May 02, 2012 1:28 am

If worse comes to worse and no agreement can be hammered out it will be interesting to see how this plays out politically. In an election year would the president who is heavily backed by labor actually intervene and undermine a major source of his political backing? Would he risk the political fallout from a crippling strike? Its not like there is a big glut of capacity out there to absorb all of the displaced travelers. Interesting timing for both sides indeed.
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 1900
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

RE: UA Alpa Asks For Release?

Wed May 02, 2012 1:50 am

Quoting kordcj (Reply 17):
Good for the UA pilots though, too bad they couldn't show solidarity with the CO pilots on the issue. I think the statement would have carried far more weight if both unions had issued a joint statement. UA is fundamentally broken (imo) until the labor groups realize they all work for the same company.

Agreed. One half of the pilot group issuing a press release speaks volumes about where UA is right now.
 
nycjbird
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:24 pm

RE: UA Alpa Asks For Release?

Wed May 02, 2012 1:10 pm

Quoting kordcj (Reply 16):
Good for the UA pilots though, too bad they couldn't show solidarity with the CO pilots on the issue. I think the statement would have carried far more weight if both unions had issued a joint statement. UA is fundamentally broken (imo) until the labor groups realize they all work for the same company.

The CO pilots did attempt a meeting to discuss a strategy to be included in a meaningful way instead of shooting from the hip. In the end the CO pilots were shut out of the process by the UA MEC. So much for unity.

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