premobrimo
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Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 3:12 am

http://www.startribune.com/business/149764555.html

What a ridiculous article! I'm usually the one defending MSP against Delta but in this case I can't believe the terrible research for this article!

There is only one 767-3ER flying to MSP, all of the other flights are A330s, 767-400 or 777 (all with lie-flat/angled seats)

MD-90s have more seats than the A320s!

Are the joking about old planes?? Northwest had the DC-9, DC-10....
Now You're Flying Smart.
 
saloman
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 3:17 am

Never thought I'd see the day when journalists used Seatguru as a source. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.
 
compensateme
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 3:23 am

Quoting saloman (Reply 1):
Never thought I'd see the day when journalists used Seatguru as a source. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

It's the Star Tribue. You shouldn't be surprised.
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
 
usflyer msp
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 3:24 am

I have to admit that is a pretty crappy article. It also fails to mention the advantages of the other aircraft. MD88/90's have fewer middle seats and larger windows. The 2-3-2 configuration of the 767 is preferred to A330's 2-4-2 by almost all flyers.
 
dlramp4life
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 3:28 am

Airlines are about making money, MD-90s do make more money than A319s and A320s when they are full...That is what happens during mergers planes get shifted around. I really cannot believe that the paper is insulting DL like this, MSP is the second busiest hub behind ATL (someone please correct if I am wrong)...

Seems to be opinion based.

I also love these comments.

Quote:
They are horrid planes it is 2012 for petes sake, they should of upgraded them before putting them on overseas or flights over 2 hours. My last flight(s) had broken tables, vomit covered seats, no personal screens and broken audio connections for the overhead monitors. There was no wifi on the US flights They were filthy too.

Vomit covered seats, classy...

Quote:
Yet another example of Delta giving Minneapolis the finger. Let's all bow down to Atlanta.

How about CVG (DL) and MEM (NW)....
SEA Ramp, wettest place on earth
 
HPRamper
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 3:30 am

Just a bunch of uninformed complainers commenting on it. I said as much - watch the Strib deny my comment because it doesn't agree with everyone else.

Everyone wants the new shiny planes, forget that the M88 makes more sense from MSP than from any other DL hub. These whiners are still living in the NWA days when MSP was the center of the universe.
 
compensateme
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 3:32 am

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 4):
I really cannot believe that the paper is insulting DL like this, MSP is the second busiest hub behind ATL (someone please correct if I am wrong)...

DTW is the second-largest hub by movements, ASM and RPM.

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=18&item=102
http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=18&item=101
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dlramp4life
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 3:35 am

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 6):
DTW is the second-largest hub by movements, ASM and RPM.

Thank you for clarfying that..So MSP is number 3
SEA Ramp, wettest place on earth
 
FSDan
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 4:05 am

I like how one guy is complaining that he can't open his laptop all the way when the passenger in front of him reclines. Most other airlines still don't have wi-fi fleetwide! First world problems...

The writer definitely has an agenda. It's ridiculous to mention the one daily international flight that lost AVOD (and will be getting it back soon) while not mentioning that the much longer MSP-NRT flight now DOES have AVOD (and lie-flat seats in BusinessElite).  
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OOer
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 4:25 am

Not only do passengers hate flying on the MD88-90 but the crews also hate working on them. The A320 is by far more "people" friendly than the MD.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 4:33 am

This guy is really scraping here.

The MD-90's and MD-88's may not be the most glamorous planes, but you'd be surprised how many frequent fliers actually enjoy the 2 x 3 seating configuration. When the Mad Dogs become part of history in the States, I can assure you many people will miss them.

And for what it's worth, why all the Delta bashing? Was Northwest's product really all that superior? From what I can remember on my experiences with NW, the DC-9s were pretty cr*ptacular, and they did not provide free snacks nor IFE in Y, even on the A319s or A320s.

I recently few DTWGRU in DL Y on a 763 with overhead screens, and it really was not all that bad. The Delta product has improved significantly over the years, and they serve free beer and wine in Y.

It was worth reading this article just for the sake of poking holes in the logic. Next.
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
ghifty
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 4:37 am

Must have been a slow news day! The comments left by Minneapolis residents are appalling... very bandwagony. They seem to have all forgotten what an insurmountable *pleasure* it was to fly on NW's old 757s.. and.. the DC-9s.. which are now the very aircraft they are vehemently against.

Some quotes I like:

"'If we have the lower end of the planes ... it feels like you're a little bit more in the minor leagues,' said airport commissioner Rick King."

-Lower end planes? Sure they're older, but "lower end"?
-Minor leagues? My apologies that it's not economical to keep an A330 flying into MSP when a "lower end plane" can do the job better and cheaper.

"The MD-88s have been dubbed 'Mad Dogs' in some aviation circles -- not always affectionately."

"'Due to rear-mounted engines, the aircraft is noisiest towards the back and seats behind the rear exits should be avoided,' the website advised travelers."

-Curiously enough, that would also mean anything towards the front would be desirable.. it's not like sitting aft of the wing on a 73G or A320 is as comfortable as sitting on or before the wing.

"Airbuses, whose engines are mounted under the wings, were spared a similar critique."

-Apparently Boeing has tail-mounted aircraft offered and flown by Delta that the nether regions of A.net have yet to discover.
Fly Delta Jets
 
compensateme
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 4:47 am

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 10):
And for what it's worth, why all the Delta bashing? Was Northwest's product really all that superior?

It has nothing to do with NW's product or affinity but rather bitterness toward the loss of the hometown, global airline. DL has gradually been moving hundreds of high-paying, high-ranking jobs from the Twin Cities to Atlanta. Obviously it makes sense to consolidate certain departments, and have certain departments in close proximity and no doubt a large number of Minnesotans will continue to remain employed by DL into the long-term future.
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
 
n7371f
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 5:00 am

Agreed that the article is not the finest piece of aviation journalism. However, kind in mind, a reporter doesn't just come up with this idea - they get it from other people. And the more the reporter hears about it, they look into. Take note of the first quote - it's from the Chairman of the MAC! Wonder what gave the story wheels?

That said...if the article were about Delta's horrible website and the erosion of benefits to elite frequent fliers, then it would've have some major bite to it. I flew Northwest well over a million miles. I miss NWA a lot. NWA's website, technology and WorldPerks were easily superior to Delta's offerings - but Delta's in-flight service is superior.

And also remember that since the merger with Northwest, Delta has done nothing but ship out jobs from the Twin Cities to Atlanta. Broken promises? That's a personal opinion. The case can certainly be made for Delta backtracking on verbal assurances of the importance of the Twin Cities beyond the hub.

All of this is fuel for people to dislike Delta. Whether Northwest was the greatest or worst airline, it was home to the Twin Cities...for decades. Now that NWA is gone - so too is the civic pride that maybe made Northwest a better airline than it really was to the hometown folks. And Delta announcing every few months that more jobs are going to Georgia only hurts their image. Just today it was reported MLT Vacations (NWA's former subsidiary and now Delta owned) is looking at moving jobs from Edina to Atlanta...
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 5:08 am

Reminds me of how they ran with the spin the union pushers put on the RR program some weeks back. Shot full of holes. So much so that DL's SVP of Minnesota operations had to personally answer all the cr*p that was written with another article only days later.
What gets measured gets done.
 
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mayor
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 5:12 am

Quoting n7371f (Reply 13):
And also remember that since the merger with Northwest, Delta has done nothing but ship out jobs from the Twin Cities to Atlanta. Broken promises? That's a personal opinion. The case can certainly be made for Delta backtracking on verbal assurances of the importance of the Twin Cities beyond the hub.

IIRC, all DL promised was that FRONTLINE jobs would be protected, not admin, back office, etc. and that's the jobs that have left MSP.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 5:37 am

Yawn. Sensationalist and lazy writing aside, this has been true for every big merger in history. The acquiring company in merger always favors its own places, people, and procedures. This has been true since there were big companies to merge. Anyone in the MSP metro area who expected something different was ignoring history.
 
MSPNWA
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 7:01 am

Quoting premobrimo (Thread starter):
What a ridiculous article!

Actually that was not too bad for the Star Tribune. I was pleasantly surprised at the research done for it. For the most part, what they're saying is true. MSP travelers pay some of the highest airfares in the nation. And since the NW acquisition, MSP has generally seen less service on inferior airplanes in comparison to other DL hubs. MSP travelers have a legitimate case to be disappointed. They'd like to see a little reward for their expensive airfare.
 
syncmaster
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 7:30 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 15):
IIRC, all DL promised was that FRONTLINE jobs would be protected, not admin, back office, etc. and that's the jobs that have left MSP.

And that's all that needs to be said right there. I was a fan of Northwest as well, but Delta's in-flight product (especially domestically) is superior to Northwest's in nearly every way possible. I prefer DTW anyways.
 
HPRamper
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 8:10 am

Sure enough, the Strib denied my comment   

Must have been because I was the one person who told them all to get a clue and stop complaining. Gotta love censorship of my freedom of speech.
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 11:36 am

articles like this really tick me off! DL is doing a good job with MSP, even investing in the terminals for remodeling and new concessions...bet that wasnt mentioned in the article. The ignorance of the comments from the readers is just the icing on the cake...bitch bitch bitch...about nothing. MSP is still an important hub, these same people bitched about NWA. They would bitch if their ice cream was cold! Its so annoying.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 12:44 pm

I think you guys are taking it a bit personally.

The article is about a noticeable switch in the type of aircraft that the hub airline uses in that city.

The article quotes users (in this case pax) to describe how they feel about the switch.

Nothing on there that the pax are noting is false:

The MD80 is not the most loved plane out there in surveys

The seats near the rear mounted engines stink

The Airbus has a bit more "room" around the seat.

The MDs are more noisy for the neighbors.



I actually applaud the newspaper for even noticing the shift in planes. This is what local news does...it covers a story on how it effects local people. And in that, they seem to be pointing out accurate facts


And by including the explanation from DL about why the switch took place, they are negating the earlier flufb about being "lesser"
 
NWBOS
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 12:56 pm

The MD90 is cheap and efficient and that is why they are getting more of them, bottom line. However from a passenger and crew perspective, it stinks. The overheads are ridiculously small, and the one galley in F makes it very difficult for the FA's. You would think DL would at least put in new larger bins and do something about the single cramped galley.

Some of the MD88's have gotten new seats in F with power ports and they are actually quite nice. I hope that continues.
 
drerx7
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 1:06 pm

Yeah, its a slow news day. I personally prefer the MD90 to the 319/320...but honestly what are they complaining about? I've flown NW via MSP/MEM/DTW and we all know that the inflight product was a couple of steps up from Greyhound. I had more service on Megabus. NW didn't offer anything...so I miss the point of the article except that somebody needed to justify their 2-week pay.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
compensateme
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 1:08 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 17):
I was pleasantly surprised at the research done for it. For the most part, what they're saying is true. MSP travelers pay some of the highest airfares in the nation. And since the NW acquisition, MSP has generally seen less service on inferior airplanes in comparison to other DL hubs.

I don't follow your logic. CVG travelers pay even higher fares than their MSP counterparts, and look what their "reward" was.

And what inferior aircraft have taken over MSP? Do you really miss the DC-9, their 30" seat pitch and horrendously uncomfortable slimline seats? Sure, the MD-90s have replaced about half the 319/320 flying, but are they really less comfortable than the Airbus? With video and a three-two seating, many will find them to be more comfortable. And there's plenty of 738 and 757 equipped with AVOD regularly serving MSP. Internationally, there's a single 763 serving MSP. Given that CDG wouldn't like be around if not for the merger, it's a mute point. And most business travelers will agree the BE cabins on the 764 and 777 are significantly better than WBC.

The DL-NW merger was going to happen with or without Minnesota's blessing.
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 1:19 pm

Quoting NWBOS (Reply 22):

Sadly yes, the 90s have the smallest bins in the mainline flight. The issue at hand is that there's no certified bin extension mods out there for the frame. They would either have to pay for the testing and certification process (non of the companies seem to want to do it for such a small market, else it would have been done already) or remove them completly and install newer, larger bins. There are kits out there one being done @ SAS I believe. I'd bet at some point something will be done with the bins. Timeline..who knows.

As for the single galley; that isn't changing. The 88s/90s had rear galleys but were removed to add more seats. Its being done in conjuction with the F cabin mods. New seating is 16FC 144YC for the 90 (exactly the same as the 738) and 16FC 133YC for the 88.

And yes all 88s will get the new seats w/powerports. That's the "M8R" project and it's ongoing. At some point some time back, they officially reached the milestone where there are more M8R than regular MD88s in the fleet.
What gets measured gets done.
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 1:26 pm

Regular visitors to this forum know that I'm not one of the DL fanboys, but I found this article totally uncalled for.

I'm very happy to see DL replacing NW's Airbii with MD-80s and MD-90s. Yes, Airbii are a little wider, but they also have twice as many middle seats. If I had a choice between sitting in a narrower, noisier MD-90 window seat near the back of the airplane, or a middle seat on an A320, I will always choose the MD-90!

I also feel the Star Tribune isn't just anti-DL, they are anti-airline in general. When NW was based here, the Strib was constantly criticizing Northwest. Now that Northwest is gone, they've switched from ripping apart NW, to missing NW and ripping apart DL.

It's sad that the same people who are bashing DL now for moving Airbii to other hubs were probably bashing NW ten years ago for "phasing out comfortable, 2x3 DC-9s, and replacing them with more crowded 3x3 A319s".

DL may not be perfect, and their fares may be on the high side (don't get me started on how expensive it is to fly them between MSP and DTW!), but I will gladly accept their high fares and their imperfections in exchange for having a hub in MSP.
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mayor
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 2:36 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 21):
The MDs are more noisy for the neighbors.

And NW's DC-9's weren't? They conveniently forgot about those, I guess.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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coronado
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 3:01 pm

Maybe MSP is envious of STL, which is not significantly smaller than the MSP metro area.

STL is obviously still a well served hub airport   

MD90's as being rolled out by Delta after their upgrades are a more pleasant flight experience than the current generation 320's and are ideally efficient aircraft for the most centrally located hub in North American continent (or at least USA plus Canada).
The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 3:11 pm

Quoting premobrimo (Thread starter):
There is only one 767-3ER flying to MSP,

You apparently mean internationally. There are two daily 763s on SEA-MSP last time I looked.

I agree this is a poorly written article by someone just trying to justify their existence as a reporter.

This article reminds me of the sensationalist article a few years ago (USA Today, I think) about some reporter complaining how he missed his connection at JFK after arriving internationally and only giving himself an hour to his domestic connecting flight. It was all the airline's and airport's fault and the sky is falling. I e-mailed him and pointed out that most experienced travelers wouldn't be foolish enough to book such a short international connection at an airport like JFK, and maybe he shouldn't be blaming the airline.
 
airlineecon
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 4:59 pm

"For long distances, the differences between the Airbus 330s and Boeing 767s can be subtle but significant. "For the average person, they're not as comfortable," Timothy Kehoe, an economics professor at the University of Minnesota, said about the 767s."

Gotta love that the reporters called a prominent economist to be the authority on comfort. But I must also concur.
 
tockeyhockey
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 5:07 pm

when i fly on DL, i hope and pray that i get a DL mainline jet, not a hand me down from NW. NW did a horrible job in its final years of keeping their interiors clean and modern. in fact, the most depressing jets flying today are probably those last few 757s that DL inherited that never even got NW's last update. dear lord. greyhound is less depressing than those birds.

and by the way, sitting in the front of mad-dog is the best seat on any plane currently flying domestic service if you are concerned about noise. nothing else compares.
 
SouthernDC9
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 5:26 pm

That sound you're hearing is the hysterical laughter of Memphians who think these complaints from MSP flyers are just so adorable. "The horror! Being forced to fly in an MD90 instead of an Airbus 320!!!!" says one Memphis traveler. "Why you poor dears, I can't imagine what... oh, pardon me one moment while I fold myself up origami-style so I can fit into this seat on our lovely CRJ..."
What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
 
NWAROOSTER
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 6:15 pm

What is irritating to Minnesotans is that Delta has taken most of the jobs that Northwest had at MSP and moved them to Atlanta. There is really no aircraft maintenance done at MSP. Hangers have been torn down. Others have been "returned to the MAC." Stores for parts have been moved to Atlanta. The "tower" where engineering and other functions were worked on is being vacated. Buildings A and J are abandoned. The flight simulators have been moved to Atlanta, even though only one A320 flight simulator has been set up. Delta is abandoning MSP, except as a hub. Delta has kept the Reservation center at Chisom, Minnesota open. That is probably because the wages there are low. Delta is also in the process of closing the reservation center in Tokyo, Japan, which Northwest opened 60 years ago, and moving it to Singapore, along with the reservation center in Bangkok. This is also probably being done as the wages are possibly less in Singapore.
Delta has NO interest in Minnesota other than as a hub period.   

[Edited 2012-05-02 11:16:47]
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
MSPNWA
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 6:42 pm

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 20):
even investing in the terminals for remodeling and new concessions...

At the expense of the extremely popular McDonalds locations. I for one was highly against the G remodeling. But that's beside the point of about airplanes.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 24):
I don't follow your logic. CVG travelers pay even higher fares than their MSP counterparts, and look what their "reward" was.

CVG and MEM are getting the shortest end of the stick. MSP is simply next shortest.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 24):

And what inferior aircraft have taken over MSP? Do you really miss the DC-9, their 30" seat pitch and horrendously uncomfortable slimline seats? Sure, the MD-90s have replaced about half the 319/320 flying, but are they really less comfortable than the Airbus? With video and a three-two seating, many will find them to be more comfortable. And there's plenty of 738 and 757 equipped with AVOD regularly serving MSP. Internationally, there's a single 763 serving MSP. Given that CDG wouldn't like be around if not for the merger, it's a mute point. And most business travelers will agree the BE cabins on the 764 and 777 are significantly better than WBC.

IMO, the DC-9 is one of the finest short-haul rides around, as long as you aren't sitting near the rear. The DC-9 has one of the few comfortable seats I've found on the new Delta, and the seat pitch isn't tighter than average. And the cabins in general are modern and in great condition. I know I miss them at MSP.

The main inferior switch has been the influx of MDs on medium-haul routes, at the expense of 757s and Airbuses. As usual, people have differing opinions on this, but in general you'll find the MDs to be less liked. From my view, on longer flights the MD tube is too small. Everything about the interior is more cramped. It also has the longest aisle without a lavatory. Can you say congested aisles on long flights? And unless you're sitting on the 2-seat side, there's no almost positives over the 6-abreast planes to go with it. Remember, there's no video on all MDs (and any video short of AVOD doesn't matter to me personally). And AVOD aircraft are still rare at MSP compared to other hubs. A secondary switch has been the downgrades internationally from A330s to 767-300ERs, although this summer the return of the A332 thankfully reduces the 763ER count down to one. MSP-CDG was an A333 prior to the acquisition, so it's a very valid point. Having the BE lie-flats on MSP-LHR (and the MSP-NRT 772 switch last fall) is nice for most, but does that counteract less capacity on every trans-ocean flight and large hard product downgrades to some AMS and CDG flights? Heck no.

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 26):
Yes, Airbii are a little wider, but they also have twice as many middle seats.

Actually not quite. There's 30 middle seats on the MD-90. There's 44 on the A320 and 38 on the A319. If you go by the percentage of coach seats, MD-90 is 20.8%, A320 is 31.8%, and the A319 is 33.3%. So not double, and if you get on the 3-seat side of an MD you're getting no advantage.

Quoting mayor (Reply 27):
And NW's DC-9's weren't? They conveniently forgot about those, I guess.

They were briefly mentioned in the article. However the DC-9s were on the outs no matter who runs the show at MSP.
 
compensateme
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 7:31 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 34):
The DC-9 has one of the few comfortable seats I've found on the new Delta, and the seat pitch isn't tighter than average.

The DC-9 average 30" seat pitch in the back and 34" up front. That's the least amount of leg room of any mainline aircraft offered by any legacy airline.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 34):
The main inferior switch has been the influx of MDs on medium-haul routes, at the expense of 757s and Airbuses. As usual, people have differing opinions on this ... Remember, there's no video on all MDs (and any video short of AVOD doesn't matter to me personally)

By stating "any video short of AVOD doesn't matter," I believe you're stretching for an argument that isn't there. With a 3x2 seating configuration, video and complimentary snacks on nearly all flights over two hours, I believe more people are happy with the post-merger experience than the pre-merger. Nor are passengers paying additional monies for assigned seats, as they were with many seats on NW. And MSP often has the second-most flights (behind ATL) equipped with AVOD -- and to places that matter, like Alaska -- so I don't know where that assertion comes from.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 34):
MSP-CDG was an A333 prior to the acquisition, so it's a very valid point. Having the BE lie-flats on MSP-LHR (and the MSP-NRT 772 switch last fall) is nice for most, but does that counteract less capacity on every trans-ocean flight and large hard product downgrades to some AMS and CDG flights?

NW struggled to make DTW-CDG work; had it not been for the merger, I'm highly confident MSP-CDG never would've lasted. Recall that NW-DL was eager to drop it the first season it operated; had NW still been at the controls, I doubt it would've returned.

And kudos to DL for having multiple equipment types offering flexibility in matching capacity to demand. The fact that MSP still saw 747 service to Japan -- a route in which there's virtually no local market -- was silly.
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
 
higherflyer
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 7:38 pm

I liked this one from "thebigal010":

The MDs are dangerous planes that have problems in the tail with the chute. I'll fly another airline if Delta can't retire these monstrosities.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 7:43 pm

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 26):
DL may not be perfect, and their fares may be on the high side (don't get me started on how expensive it is to fly them between MSP and DTW!),

Yeah, but if there's only one horse...

Quoting airlineecon (Reply 30):

Gotta love that the reporters called a prominent economist to be the authority on comfort. But I must also concur.

Really? The "comfort" on the interior is more a function of the seat than the aircraft. And given that the Airbii have twice the number of center seats (two columns vs the one in the 767), I'd say the 767 wins as long as the cabin has been updated. The one place the A330 truly beats the 767 is in cabin noise. I've sat forward of the wing and aft of the wing in the A330 and it is *markedly* quieter than the 767.

I actually quite liked NW's DC-9's as a passenger. They updated the interior so that it was internally indistinguishable from the 717 (save a few minor details). Given that they rarely used them on flights >2hr, the lack of in-flight amenities wasn't a big deal. And if you were sitting anywhere forward of the wing (and the wing sits pretty far aft), the engines were so quiet as to be almost silent on takeoff, which was kind of creepy, like God's hand was pushing you into the air.
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 7:49 pm



Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 33):
What is irritating to Minnesotans is that Delta has taken most of the jobs that Northwest had at MSP and moved them to Atlanta. There is really no aircraft maintenance done at MSP...Delta has NO interest in Minnesota other than as a hub period.

Mergers and acquisitions happen daily. Nor has DL moved most of its MN-based employment to GA. Most of its high-level jobs, yes, but certainly not the crux of its employment. Recall that NW vastly shrunk during bankruptcy; it made sense to consolidate the smaller NW employee groups into their much-larger peers at ATL. Enabling related employee/employee groups to work alongside each other equates into higher productivity and saves money.

The merger would've happened with or without MN's blessing. I'm not certain why DL was expected (among MN) to keep a HQ presence in MSP -- it certainly does not make sense.

[Edited 2012-05-02 12:50:14]
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 8:03 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 25):
Sadly yes, the 90s have the smallest bins in the mainline flight. The issue at hand is that there's no certified bin extension mods out there for the frame.

Actually, there ARE bin extensions for the MD-90, and Delta has already installed them. On the outside they look just like the MD-88 bin extensions, but are different on the inside.

EDIT: Added photo
http://www.airliners.net/uf/152432/php1R5lD6.jpeg

FYI, the bins on the 3 seat side are larger than those on the 2 seat side.

[Edited 2012-05-02 13:14:11]
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deltaflyertoo
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 8:57 pm

DL at MSP has been an upgrade! Sure, the AIrbuses have been replaced. But remember even during the airline boom of the 90s NW went and stripped the fleet of any and all IFE (757s and AIrbuses all had it)and led the march for no more meals domestic while holding on to DC9s and marketing itself as a full service airline (except for legroom what was different between that and WN or SPirit?). From what I gather, much hadn't changed up to 2007.

Now indeed you have DL that has IFE on the MD-90s, brought back wide body flying from MSP to the west coast (LAX)...a decent buy on board product, swapping some NW 757s out for theirs that also have IFE and better interior, etc.

Industry wide, noone can argue DL hasn't been on its game in developing a superior product over the others (new planes, new IFE, better food, new marketing image, etc) of course if there is major downturn in economy all those things could go to hell in a hand basket but for at least past year its been pheonominal and above and beyond what NW would have done had it stayed independent for the MSP community.
 
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 9:04 pm

Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 40):
Now indeed you have DL that has IFE on the MD-90s, brought back wide body flying from MSP to the west coast (LAX)...a decent buy on board product, swapping some NW 757s out for theirs that also have IFE and better interior, etc.

MD-90s no longer have IFE. There was a proposal to install AVOD on them, but that has been put on hold due to high fuel prices.
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 9:22 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 39):
Actually, there ARE bin extensions for the MD-90, and Delta has already installed them. On the outside they look just like the MD-88 bin extensions, but are different on the inside.

When did the project happen

It's not a DL original so that would make sense because the SAS frames have thelarger bins.

[Edited 2012-05-02 14:23:36]
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 9:29 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 6):
http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=18&item=102
http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=18&item=101

Those are great links. Just by changing the last number one can cycle through DL's largest airports.

100=ATL
101=DTW
102=MSP
103=JFK
104=SLC
105=MEM
106=CVG

But no LAX on the list?  
Quoting OOer (Reply 9):
Not only do passengers hate flying on the MD88-90 but the crews also hate working on them.

I cannot stand the tail mounted engines due to the cabin noise. I somehow often get a seat too close to the aft. I try to avoid booking around the MD80 and any other tail mounted engine except the Embraers and CRJ-700/900. Those aren't too loud.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 10):
The MD-90's and MD-88's may not be the most glamorous planes, but you'd be surprised how many frequent fliers actually enjoy the 2 x 3 seating configuration.

Frequent fliers can ensure they aren't seated near the engines.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 35):
The DC-9 average 30" seat pitch in the back and 34" up front.

Ouch. But it isn't Spirit's 28".

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 34):
IMO, the DC-9 is one of the finest short-haul rides around, as long as you aren't sitting near the rear.

How does one ensure that? My company will not pay a fee for a better seat...

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1337Delta764
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 9:33 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 42):
It's not a DL original so that would make sense because the SAS frames have thelarger bins.

DL's bin extensions are a Heath Tecna product, who also made the MD-88 and 757 bin extensions.
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B4REAL
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 9:44 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 10):
The MD-90's and MD-88's may not be the most glamorous planes, but you'd be surprised how many frequent fliers actually enjoy the 2 x 3 seating configuration.

I too enjoy the MD's over the Airbus 319/320 DL fleets.

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 33):
What is irritating to Minnesotans is that Delta has taken most of the jobs that Northwest had at MSP and moved them to Atlanta.


Yep this hasn't been said enough.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 38):
The merger would've happened with or without MN's blessing. I'm not certain why DL was expected (among MN) to keep a HQ presence in MSP -- it certainly does not make sense.

For once I agree with you.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 41):
MD-90s no longer have IFE.

I never understood why they did that.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 44):
I cannot stand the tail mounted engines due to the cabin noise.

Sit forward, ti's good!
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 9:48 pm

While not related to the service changes at MSP, DL have actually placed (arguably) a lot of their flagship aircraft, the Boeing 777 in Detroit. I'm amazed each time when I see 3 or 4 777 on the ground there off to Asia. DL is making the best use of the assets and markets. People need to kinda move on.

Didn't Portland get upset when they got a Boeing 767 instead of the A330 for their NRT flight?
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 9:49 pm

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 45):
I never understood why they did that.

It is because the IFE equipment was located in the rear galley, which was removed. Plus, many of these second-hand MD-90s didn't include an IFE system with them. BTW, the MD-90s I heard are already wired for AVOD, except they don't currently have the server and screens installed.

[Edited 2012-05-02 14:49:59]
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B4REAL
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 9:53 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 47):
It is because the IFE equipment was located in the rear galley, which was removed. Plus, many of these second-hand MD-90s didn't include an IFE system with them. BTW, the MD-90s I heard are already wired for AVOD, except they don't currently have the server and screens installed.

Now I know! Thanks!! RR Click for you.
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aztrainer
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RE: Delta Hating On MSP?

Wed May 02, 2012 9:59 pm

"Please, Delta Air Lines. Give us back our Airbus A319 and A320 flights."

King, who is a frequent flier, said the Airbuses are "infinitely more comfortable" than the McDonnell Douglas planes.

This had me shaking my head. The simple statement that they own the 319 and 320 and anything that is a Boeing is a a downgrade.

They might want to wait on making demands that they cannot back up. I read most of the comments about getting another airlines into MSP to fly to the gateway cities in Europe.

This is Yellow journalism via the 22nd century.

Quoting higherflyer (Reply 36):
I liked this one from "thebigal010":

The MDs are dangerous planes that have problems in the tail with the chute. I'll fly another airline if Delta can't retire these monstrosities.

He, He, then he got out his F-101 with it's drag chute.

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