southwest737500
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WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Sun May 06, 2012 3:56 pm

Since WN just received the 738 let's speculate on what kind of routes WN could run to Hawaii. I know the we won't see any flights this year but Gary stated next year,
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ERJ170
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Sun May 06, 2012 4:02 pm

I suspect the following: SEA, PDX, OAK, SJC, SAN, LAX, LAS, SFO, SAcramento, maybe RNO.. Basically most of the west coast.. But that's just my opinion...
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ltbewr
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Sun May 06, 2012 4:15 pm

I would think they would want to base any Hawaii flights to only 2 mainland airports, especially where they have a significant amounts of feeder flights but not in direct competition with other airliners and to narrow the perhaps specialized fleet and mx they would need to do Hawaii flights. LAX and SFO might be a problem but more likely OAK, PHX, SEA.

No matter what, if WN can commit to at least 6 and better 8 RT's a day from the mainline to Hawaii, they could be a player, drive down fares and help the tourism industry there. I also suspect they would be popular with military personal and families based in HI.
 
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STT757
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Sun May 06, 2012 4:20 pm

I think OAK and LAX will be their main gateways to Hawaii.
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EricR
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Sun May 06, 2012 4:20 pm

OAK, LAS, LAX. I would be surprised to see either SEA or PDX.

I think the key is which cities could support more than 1 daily flight via O&D and / or connections.

[Edited 2012-05-06 09:23:43]
 
BD338
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Sun May 06, 2012 4:24 pm

I'll ask the question the other way around...which Hawaiian destinations are WN most likely to serve? I guess HNL is a no-brainer but how about LIH, KOA etc? I hope PHX is a base on the mainland.
 
EricR
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Sun May 06, 2012 4:28 pm

Quoting BD338 (Reply 5):
I'll ask the question the other way around...which Hawaiian destinations are WN most likely to serve? I guess HNL is a no-brainer but how about LIH, KOA etc? I hope PHX is a base on the mainland.

HNL & OGG. Considering WN's preference for frequency, I would consider KOA and especially LIH long shots.
 
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STT757
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Sun May 06, 2012 4:31 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 6):
HNL & OGG. Considering WN's preference for frequency, I would consider KOA and especially LIH long shots.

Is it possible WN does some kind of inter-island flying;

OAK-HNL-Kona-HNL-OAK

LAX-HNL-LIH-HNL-LAX
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southwest737500
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Sun May 06, 2012 4:34 pm

It would be perfect if WN kept some 717 to be based there
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Sun May 06, 2012 4:43 pm

Another question would be if WN would change their policy about red eyes.
Red eye eastbounds are a very viable option for Hawaii service and allows more utilization. If you do frequency, you probably do redeyes.

WN has standards for new airports that require minimum frequencies. One would expect HNL and OGG service to several West Coast airports. KOA and LIH would be long shots at this point and I don't see WN doing a couple of interisland roundtrips. With their fares, you not expect tag on help would be needed and not worth the expense of the tagon.
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lightsaber
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Sun May 06, 2012 5:19 pm

WN will have to set up a station in Hawaii per there union rules. So when they enter, it will have to enter on a fairly large scale (10X fligths per day). So the question, do they only start or or two stations or go big?

Quoting EricR (Reply 4):
OAK, LAS, LAX. I would be surprised to see either SEA or PDX.

Due to the need to go 'big,' I would expect every West Coast airport with WN service to be a viable candidate.

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 8):
It would be perfect if WN kept some 717 to be based there

That would be... ironic. However, I expect more of LAX-HNL-OGG-HNL-LAX types of service with a complimentary service that could be OAK-OGG-HNL-OGG-OAK. One leg would be eliminated with enough frequency.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 9):
One would expect HNL and OGG service to several West Coast airports. KOA and LIH would be long shots at this point and I don't see WN doing a couple of interisland roundtrips.

I agree. HNL and OGG will probably be it.

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swafa
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Sun May 06, 2012 6:35 pm

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 9):

The red eye thing is actually more of a practice than a policy. The Flight Attendants have had language in our contract to deal with red eye flights fOr years. Also, to this point, we just negotiated a tentative agreement for language in our contract governing near international and over water flying. One of the example pairings the union uses to explain a duty rig shows a scheduled red eye. I think it's from the islands to the mainland. While its only an example, it may be a sign of things to come.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 10):

If I'm not mistaken, any new city served by WN with fewer than a certain number of flights per day (don't know what that number is, somebody help me out) can be staffed with contract employees.
 
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Sun May 06, 2012 7:58 pm

Quoting erj170 (Reply 1):
maybe RNO.. Basically most of the west coast.. But that's just my opinion...

RNO sounds quite far unless you mean a quick stop at LAX first
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wnflyguy
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Sun May 06, 2012 8:04 pm

I think you will first see service only to HNL Hawaii from PHX,LAX,LAS,OAK and SAN with late afternoon westbound service.
Then a bank of eastbound redeye service to the mainland. I think you will see lines like BWI-LAX-HNL-redeye-LAX-BWI,
MDW-LAS-HNL-redeye-LAS-MDW, ATL-PHX-HNL-redeye-PHX-ATL, DAL-HOU-SAN-HNL-redeye-SAN-HOU-DAL and
LGA-DEN-OAK-HNL-redeye-OAK-DEN-LGA.
This way 5 800's will not be tied up on just Hawaii. I do see LAX with at least 5 HNL summer time non-stops a day and PHX and LAS with 2 a day.
If the overwater and near international side letter passes with the flight attn group at the end of May I think you will see first ever Redeye flights starting in Nov 2012 along with SJU service then Hawaii spring 2013..
Along with the radical FL flight chances rumored to becoming in NOV the June schedule release should be a good one.
Arm chair network planners and ceo's feed back welcomed...  wnfg
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
reality
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Sun May 06, 2012 9:37 pm

Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 12):

Quoting erj170 (Reply 1):
maybe RNO.. Basically most of the west coast.. But that's just my opinion...

RNO sounds quite far unless you mean a quick stop at LAX first

Reno, being further West than Los Angeles, is only 18 miles further from HNL than LAX.....according to Great Circle.

2574 miles vs. 2556 miles. OAK is 2409 miles from HNL.
 
airplaneboy
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Sun May 06, 2012 10:39 pm

Do the -800s have the range for westbound Hawaii flying from LAS and PHX?
 
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Sun May 06, 2012 10:48 pm

I bet the Hawaiian gateways are lax and oak. Also service to SAN, sfo, sac, sna, las. I bet we see sna happen even if united has not had amazing daily results southwest does pretty good at orange county
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 12:00 am

Quoting airplaneboy (Reply 15):
Do the -800s have the range for westbound Hawaii flying from LAS and PHX?

LAS-LAX, a route a travel on pretty often is only about 40 minutes from take-off to touch-down. It won't be a problem.
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atrude777
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 1:08 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 17):

LAS-LAX, a route a travel on pretty often is only about 40 minutes from take-off to touch-down. It won't be a problem.

Did you misread his question?  

He wasn't asking about LAS-LAX, only LAS/PHX-Hawaii on the 738.

To answer...I think so? ATA used the 738 but I can't say for sure if it was on 738 or the 757's.

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lightsaber
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 1:25 am

Quoting swafa (Reply 11):
If I'm not mistaken, any new city served by WN with fewer than a certain number of flights per day (don't know what that number is, somebody help me out) can be staffed with contract employees.

I looks like you are correct! The latest I could find was the 2009 contract.
http://twu555.org/portals/12/PDFfiles/2008-201120CBA.pdf

The text of interest:"Should the Company have a need to contract with third parties for the
performance of covered work at stations where flight activity does not exceed 12
departures per day, the Company shall be entitled to do so. The Company shall
notify the Union of:
a. The nature of the contract; and
b. The anticipated length of time the third party work shall be required.
This provision shall not apply to stations in operation as of date of ratification
(March 27, 2009).",


So it does look like a small amount of contract work is allowed, but the union can contest and have it union work. (That is how I interpret the clause on pg. 6 of the referenced pdf.)

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 18):
To answer...I think so? ATA used the 738 but I can't say for sure if it was on 738 or the 757's.

LAS to HNL/OGG will have a little more payload restriction than LAX-HNL/OGG. We're talking just a few seats (2 to 4). It should not significantly effect the business case of the flight. But the 738 from LAX is already pushed. This is one area where small improvements to the 738 will pay off big.

LAS-HNL/OGG will be a perfect route for the 738MAX.

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nutsaboutplanes
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 2:06 am

I doubt you will see an NG on PHX or LAS to Hawaii, the MAX will be a candidate for these. I know that even the 757 on the super hot days takes a restricion out of PHX so I would be surprised to see the 737 on this run before WN takes delivery of the MAX.
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wnflyguy
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 2:07 am

SNA will never see HNL service due to weight limits.
RNO is also to small of a market to suport Hawaii service at the level WN needs.
Yes the 800's has the legs for PHX and LAS . ATA used the 800's all the time when the 757's were being used for charters.
I see WN by mid year 2013 running only about 10 HNL flts a day and 5 OGG flts.
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 2:27 am

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 18):
He wasn't asking about LAS-LAX, only LAS/PHX-Hawaii on the 738.

I understood the question fully. I was simply implying that a 30 minute air-time sector (LAS-LAX) wouldn't affect the flight that much considering -800s operate out of LAX-HNL.
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TWA772LR
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 3:09 am

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 21):

SNA will never see HNL service due to weight limits.

Say that to Aloha and United...
I wouldn't be surprised to see SNA near the top of the list. It is a great alternative to LAX, more convenient for people living in the Irvine-Anaheim-Newport Beach area, and the flight times are perfect for connections and O&D (granted they do do redeyes). I don't think a weight restriction would hurt WN as bad as it would UA because a WN 73G would have a lower percentage of seats lost than a UA 73G. Do I think it'll be number 1? No, LAX is a better station to prospect any Hawaii service IMO. Do I think it's in the top 5? Definitely.
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chrisair
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 4:33 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 23):
I wouldn't be surprised to see SNA near the top of the list.

I wouldn't be surprised either. But do you think WN wants to spend the money on a sub fleet of 73Gs that are ETOPS certified? Would they want to have a fleet of 5 or so planes that are only for one or two routes (i.e. BUR-Hawaii-SNA-Hawaii-BUR)?
 
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 4:44 am

I really wonder would WN considering flying to Hawai'i? Remember, we already have HA and UA flying there, and revenue is going to be quite low given the competition routes to Hawai'i.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 5:16 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 23):
Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 21):
SNA will never see HNL service due to weight limits.
Say that to Aloha and United...

Neither of which used 738s on the route; 73Gs were used, and they have no weight penalty on SNA-HNL whereas a 738 does, rendering the flight unprofitable.
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wnflyguy
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 6:52 am

Aloha and now with United even have weight restrictions on every flight from SNA to Hawaii.
United unlike Aloha blocks 20 seats on SNA-HNL flights 20mins before dep time if they room they fill it up with non-rev's.
When I worked at SNA Aloha used to leave 50 to 100 bags of full flights all the time because of weight restrictions because of SNA short runway.
Sometimes they would ship the bags via Fedex or UPS or they would also send them on WN to OAK to connect to a non weight restricted Aloha flights out of OAK.
It's the fuel needed for the ETOPS x The noise restictions and SNA runway length makes the 737-800 not able without huge money loss on every flight.
Unless the 737max brings more to the table on ETOPS or WN keeps the 10 FL ETOPS 737-700 they have ETOPS also I don't see WN ever doing BUR or SNA Hawaii non stops.....  wnfg
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
barney captain
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 7:12 am

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 21):
Yes the 800's has the legs for PHX and LAS . ATA used the 800's all the time when the 757's were being used for charters.

Filling in for a chartered 757 and trying to schedule year round service are two completely different concepts. The -800 will likely never be scheduled out of PHX/LAS for the Islands - the summer temps will make it nearly impossible. The second segment climb restrictions out of LAS alone make it a non-starter.
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jporterfi
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 8:15 am

I think they will probably go with LAX and OAK (or maybe SJC instead?) on the mainland side and HNL and OGG on the Hawaii side. I think those are the only routes that have both the capacity necessary to justify them and enough connections (and frequency) to other airports on the mainland.
 
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 8:36 am

LAX and OAK are no-brainers, and I can potentially see ONT as well, possibly SAN. Beyond that, I don't know that I can see any other viable West Coast to Hawaii opportunities for WN.
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atrude777
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 12:51 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 25):
I really wonder would WN considering flying to Hawai'i? Remember, we already have HA and UA flying there, and revenue is going to be quite low given the competition routes to Hawai'i.

Yes, WN is considering it and has every intention of starting Hawaii as soon as they can. They didn't get the -800 to hop around the US from MDW-STL, and MCO-ISP.


We have every Legacy Airline flying from the US Mainline to Hawaii, not just HA and UA.

Quoting FlyASAguy2005 (Reply 22):

I understood the question fully. I was simply implying that a 30 minute air-time sector (LAS-LAX) wouldn't affect the flight that much considering -800s operate out of LAX-HNL.

Oh Ok, I was so thrown off by what LAS-LAX had to do with it but now you explained it that makes sense.

Alex
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COA735
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 1:52 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 30):
LAX and OAK are no-brainers, and I can potentially see ONT as well, possibly SAN. Beyond that, I don't know that I can see any other viable West Coast to Hawaii opportunities for WN

What about PDX? Don't they have a sizable presence there?
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 2:10 pm

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 31):
We have every Legacy Airline flying from the US Mainline to Hawaii, not just HA and UA.

I think RayChuang meant the Big Island.
Not every day we find light winds. What do we do in these situations? Fly.
 
flyer737sw
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 2:27 pm

Considering we need to have mechanics for ETOPS flights, OAK, LAS, PHX, and LAX will be among the first to serve Hawaii, along with SJC and SAN at a later time.
I see WN starting service at Hilo Airport first, and then running hopper flights over to the other islands. If the 717's cannot find another home these can be used between the islands along with the 500's until they are retired.
 
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 2:28 pm

Quoting chrisair (Reply 24):
I wouldn't be surprised either. But do you think WN wants to spend the money on a sub fleet of 73Gs that are ETOPS certified? Would they want to have a fleet of 5 or so planes that are only for one or two routes (i.e. BUR-Hawaii-SNA-Hawaii-BUR)?

AS already looked at service from SNA-HNL It wasn't practical on the -800 due to weight restrictions because of the runway length. Outfitting a small number of -700's as ETOPS wasn't practical for just this one route. Unless the good people of Orange County want to extend their runway a bit I don't think you'll be seeing anyone trying Hawaii from SNA again. UA just announced it's ending service SNA-HNL. http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/n...rlines-to-end-honolulu-orange.html

I see WN using OAK and LAX as gateways to HNL and OGG. Wouldn't be surprised to see service from SAN, LAS, SMF and SJC either. I think that's about it....forget about RNO, SEA, PDX.
 
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 2:38 pm

Quoting erj170 (Reply 1):
I suspect the following: SEA, PDX, OAK, SJC, SAN, LAX, LAS, SFO, SAcramento, maybe RNO.. Basically most of the west coast.. But that's just my opinion...

I think SEA is a no go based on costs. WN tried to move its flights to Boeing Field because of the high costs of operating out of SEA. Why would they start a fare war with the home town airline on flights to Hawaii, which are already price sensitive? I think PDX is out for similar reasons, although I guess I wouldn't be shocked if WN made inroads there. I think WN will focus on California airports like OAK and LAX for starters, then branch out, depending on business from certain cities.
 
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 3:33 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):
I think OAK and LAX will be their main gateways to Hawaii.

Is LAX a "no brainer" because the 73Hs won't take a weight penalty? There's a lot of traffic from LAX already. If it does happen, I hope it brings down fares markedly so more people can travel to and from the islands.

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 18):
He wasn't asking about LAS-LAX, only LAS/PHX-Hawaii on the 738.

To answer...I think so? ATA used the 738 but I can't say for sure if it was on 738 or the 757's.

Alex

I think ATA flew most of their PHX-HNL/OGG flights with the 757s.

I think "no brainers" would be PHX & LAS however, in the summer can those 73Hs fly the distance with the high temperatures during the summer months?

I think we'll see SAN service as well in addition to OAK.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 3:44 pm

Quoting Barney Captain (Reply 28):
The -800 will likely never be scheduled out of PHX/LAS for the Islands - the summer temps will make it nearly impossible. The second segment climb restrictions out of LAS alone make it a non-starter.

Even with the latest CFM-56 'evolution?' I suspect there is the possibility of a well timed (morning) flight. It is a question of when, not if.

Lightsaber
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barney captain
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 4:06 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 37):
Is LAX a "no brainer" because the 73Hs won't take a weight penalty? There's a lot of traffic from LAX already. If it does happen, I hope it brings down fares markedly so more people can travel to and from the islands.

I question whether or not you will see us doing LAX - Hawaii at all. As you correctly state, that market is completely saturated by every major carrier using 757's and larger. I suspect there's a good reason AS never touched that market.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 37):
I think ATA flew most of their PHX-HNL/OGG flights with the 757s.

They did.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 37):
I think "no brainers" would be PHX & LAS however, in the summer can those 73Hs fly the distance with the high temperatures during the summer months?

Not without huge penalties - making that route questionable at best.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 38):
Even with the latest CFM-56 'evolution?' I suspect there is the possibility of a well timed (morning) flight. It is a question of when, not if.

I'm unfamiliar with what you're referring to. AFAIK, we have the standard CFM 56's that are hung on every other -800.


My prediction is (in no particular order), SAN, SJC, OAK, SMF and maybe LAX.
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hiflyeras
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 4:13 pm

Quoting Barney Captain (Reply 39):
I suspect there's a good reason AS never touched that market.

AS is not happy that they don't serve Hawaii from the LA Basin. It's the big hole in the route map...but like Barney said, there's already a huge amount of capacity out of LAX. BUR and SNA are out due to short runways. ONT is a beautiful facility but is barely hanging on as it is....service there is a shadow of 5-10 years ago. That leaves LAX or LGB as the only practical options out of LA. AS chose to not enter LAX due to the already-stiff competition....it'll be interesting to see if WN does the same. If they went in with major frequency LAX-HNL they could give everyone a run for their money!
 
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 4:15 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 10):
WN will have to set up a station in Hawaii per there union rules. So when they enter, it will have to enter on a fairly large scale (10X fligths per day)

No such rules to force a large station. CRP has 3 flights a day some days. SJD is being opened with 1 SNA flight/day. MEX is being opened with 2 flights a day.

Quoting Barney Captain (Reply 39):
I suspect there's a good reason AS never touched that market.

WN has a lot more options in terms of connecting passengers than AS has at LAX.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
barney captain
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 4:44 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 41):
WN has a lot more options in terms of connecting passengers than AS has at LAX.

Agreed. This may be what swings the pendulum in favor of doing it.
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 5:09 pm

Quoting Barney Captain (Reply 39):
I'm unfamiliar with what you're referring to. AFAIK, we have the standard CFM 56's that are hung on every other -800.

In 2011 CFM launched a reduced fuel burn CFM-56, much of which (I found out this week) is nacelle changes.

http://www.flightglobal.com/director...facturer=3279&navigationItemId=382

The Evolution engine:

On 28 April 2009, the CFM56-7B Evolution engine enhancement programme for Boeing’s 737 Next Generation family was announced. The new variant is scheduled to enter airline service in mid-2011 to coincide with the 737NG airframe improvements announced by Boeing at the same time. The Evolution engine, to be known in service on Next-Generation 737s as the CFM56-7BE, provides a 2% improvement in fuel consumption, equating to a 2% reduction in carbon emissions. Additionally, the CFM56-7BE will provide up to 4% lower maintenance costs, depending on the thrust rating. CFM has used advanced computer codes and three-dimensional design techniques to improve airfoils in the high- and low-pressure turbines to improve the Evolution engine’s performance. The company has also utilised improved engine cooling techniques and reduced the parts count to achieve lower maintenance costs.


Note: The evolution is part of an airframe package (nacelle). The engine dropped fuel burn 1%, the other 1% is basically the nacelle changes.

EIS was July 2011 with China Southern, so I would expect WN to have ordered the more capable (in lower fuel burn) engine. However, due to parts changes, perhaps the small fuel burn wasn't worth it? For flights to Hawaii, a 2% drop in fuel burn is about 70nm more range. Not huge, but certainly of value.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 41):
No such rules to force a large station.

Already noted my error in reply 19. I do come onto a.net to learn.  
Quoting usflyguy (Reply 41):
WN has a lot more options in terms of connecting passengers than AS has at LAX.

Agreed. But there will be a 'first mover' advantage. I would be surprised if AS doesn't try to enter the market. I would be shocked if WN doesn't enter the LAX-HNL/OGG markets within four years.

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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 5:13 pm

Quoting erj170 (Reply 1):
I suspect the following: SEA,

That seems unimaginable to me. There is already a ton of Hawaii service from SEA with AS and Hawaiian. Why would anyone choose WN over those (on this route)?
 
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 5:49 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 16):
I bet we see sna happen even if united has not had amazing daily results southwest does pretty good at orange county

I doubt they would operate out of SNA. The slots might be better used elsewhere and it would be difficult for a 737 to get off the short runway and get to HNL. Only a 757 could operate SNA-HNL regularly with a full load.
 
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 6:08 pm

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 9):
KOA and LIH would be long shots at this point and I don't see WN doing a couple of interisland roundtrips.

I don't see either being worth WN's time. From an economies of scale perspective, it's not going to be worth it for WN to set up a station for a couple flights/day which is about all LIH and KOA could support. Maybe some day in the distant future, but not initially.
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Mon May 07, 2012 8:04 pm

Quoting Barney Captain (Reply 39):
Quoting laca773 (Reply 37):Is LAX a "no brainer" because the 73Hs won't take a weight penalty? There's a lot of traffic from LAX already. If it does happen, I hope it brings down fares markedly so more people can travel to and from the islands.
I question whether or not you will see us doing LAX - Hawaii at all. As you correctly state, that market is completely saturated by every major carrier using 757's and larger. I suspect there's a good reason AS never touched that market.

LAX is a slam-dunk. Even though there's stiff competition, WN can compete against every carrier in the LAX-HNL or LAX-OGG market with three major advantages: CASM ex-fuel, the 73H being a terrific aircraft for HI ops, and don't forget the "Southwest Effect" where the lower fares actually create more of a market than existed previously.
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Tue May 08, 2012 5:19 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 47):
LAX is a slam-dunk. Even though there's stiff competition, WN can compete against every carrier in the LAX-HNL or LAX-OGG market with three major advantages: CASM ex-fuel, the 73H being a terrific aircraft for HI ops, and don't forget the "Southwest Effect" where the lower fares actually create more of a market than existed previously.

LAX-HNL has been around forever. There is plenty of competition. I'm not sure how much more "stimulating" WN can induce. With the so called Southwest Effect or not.
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RE: WN Route Speculation To And From Hawaii

Tue May 08, 2012 6:54 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 47):
LAX is a slam-dunk. Even though there's stiff competition,

Yes, there is stiff competition, but if you look at it strictly from a loads point of view, ALL the flights on UA, AA, DL are FULL. They are packed year-round. There is plenty to go around and WN would be no different. WN could run 3 HNL's a day and they would be jam packed.
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.

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